Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/21/2016 11:46 PM CST
I haven't played a Thief with any seriousness since the move to the web, but I recently dusted off my old Thief that I rerolled about 10 years ago and then never played.

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if Sand Sprites are just a pain to hide on since there's not really any comparable mobs on Ratha to try, but I'm having a hell of a time hiding on Sand Sprites. With 76 in stealth, they still point me out about 50% of the time before my hiding RT is over(even though they barely teach. Elanthipedia says they soft cap stealth at 75 and I locked my Backstab while stealth was still at 6/34) with both Dampen and Darken up. My stealth is also somewhat(6/14) hindered with Dampen up, which feels... really, really, really high. I'm wearing all light armor(some older crafted stuff. Perfect firecat skin leathers and perfect gargoyle hide gloves and cowl).

These are the first mobs I've tried training on since I've been back since I was already logged off on Ratha and everything indicates that I should have no problem hiding on them to train backstab but its such a pain to stay hidden.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 12:01 AM CST
Epedia relies on players inputting their own personal experience and most of the prolific editors probably aren't running characters at sand sprite level. Feel free to edit caps if your experience gain doesn't mirror the ranks posted. Keep in mind most ranks aren't posted with buffs or Khri in consideration.

For your character, try removing pieces of armor to successfully hide. You probably won't gain much skill (and you run the risk of getting beat up) but you'll have more success.



https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 12:10 AM CST
The cap on Elanthipedia is correct judging from everything I read, I just found it odd that I can barely hide on them in spite of being at the cap and wasn't sure if I was doing something horribly wrong since I haven't trained a stealth character with any seriousness since the game was on AOL or if they were just a mob that has stupid perception. I've never seen anyone else complain about their perception(granted this incredibly scientific research is based on reading Sand Sprite posts in the Creatures of Elanthia folder) and it just seemed off to me.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 01:33 AM CST


The standard battery of questions:
-burden?
-wounds?
-is your bonus tanked? ("smirk <your character name>" while out of hiding or just "smirk" while in hiding to check it)
-if you debuff their perception with ambush screen how much effect (if any) do you see, in terms of being better able to hide?
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 09:01 AM CST
Contact me on IM at mrhankeyil and I'll get you sorted out. Welcome back.
Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 09:18 AM CST
<< Feel free to edit caps if your experience gain doesn't mirror the ranks posted.

<< Evasion soft caps around 73.
<< Hiding soft caps around 75.

This indeed looks highly doubtful. To my knowledge soft caps were essentially removed in 3.1 and the fact that it's called hiding not stealth all points to outdated information. Although with all things considered i don't think your issue is with stealth caps. Don't edit until you're doing it right yourself.

The thing with stealth is that it's not as straight forward as you might think. Backstabbing is probably the worst way to train stealth. It's already by nature couteractive to training because you kill everything too fast. More importantly, backstab doesn't count as a exp timer resetter.

What you need to do is pick a balance neutral or positive move like feint and target a body part from stealth.

People will argue but more or less in this order from easiest to hardest (find the hardest one that consistently gets you "masterfully position" message):
["right leg", "back", "right arm", "right hand", "abdomen", "chest", "neck", "head", "right eye"]

:: hide (stalk) > feint sprite right eye > repeat

Every time you do this your exp timer is reset and you are able to learn stealth.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 09:43 AM CST
Soft caps are still absolutely a thing.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 11:50 AM CST
<< Soft caps are still absolutely a thing.

I don't know what to say. As someone who used to abuse soft caps to the max until 3.1 and i actually have a few weapons in a certain cap range right now, there definitely is no soft caps that i can distinguish. Maybe we have completely different understanding of what a soft cap is and just to clear i don't consider exp slowing down in the end a soft cap at any point.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 12:05 PM CST
>>Maybe we have completely different understanding of what a soft cap is and just to clear i don't consider exp slowing down in the end a soft cap at any point.

Soft caps aren't "past a certain point learning slows down a ton" with the hard cap being "and then it stops entirely"?



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 12:10 PM CST
The problem with soft caps is that "learning slows down a ton" is completely subjective. I'm not sure that a "soft cap" actually exists as much as mobs spawn within a range, so sometimes you will have mobs on the low end of the range which won't teach as well as mobs on the high end, so it seems like you're in a "soft cap" situation.




Don't forget to vote:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 12:59 PM CST
There's definately a point in the exp formula where it the reward per action. Drops off geomettically, before slowing down to nothing at the cutoff. Log function or something.



"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.

They're proud of them."
-Raesh
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 01:03 PM CST
>>The problem with soft caps is that "learning slows down a ton" is completely subjective.

That and sometimes even a slow trickle of experience per action ads up when those actions are done quick enough (like when doing AoE that all give separate exp ticks, or when 4 mobs are attacking you at once training your defenses, etc), but I can generally tell when something is in the realm of soft caps.



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 01:57 PM CST
<< past a certain point learning slows down a ton

That's exactly what i'm no longer seeing, at a very certain point (on the next rank) exp dropped in a magnitude of something ~90% -- a huge drop off but could still be milked for hundreds of ranks after that. To me it was always very easily distinguishable but now exp just gradually lowers (possibly logarithmically as mentioned) and then completely stops.

Right now i have one weapon that is 20 ranks before a certain cap and another one that is 20 ranks over the cap. One trains as you would expect from something nearing the cap and the other one gets no exp at all. I'm not seeing a drop of that magnitude i would expect from a soft cap, just slightly reduced exp.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/22/2016 02:43 PM CST
My experience is that at high ranks, at least, soft caps still exist. Right after 3.1 was released I started hunting young wyverns with high 800s in Evasion. Once it ticked over to 901 it would never move off of 1/34 even dancing with 4 for hours. It stayed that way till 960s when I finally had the weapons/other defenses to move on to juvies.

My guess is that when learning ranges were decreased that sitting at 1/34 for many ranks disappeared below ~500 ranks, but the critters beyond that level still have such a huge teaching range that soft caps are still possible.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/24/2016 02:06 AM CST
<< Once it ticked over to 901 it would never move off of 1/34 even dancing with 4 for hours.

Yes, to my knowledge as well, that would be by definition the soft cap in its current form and by your explanation, what i mean by essentially removed. Technically that is a soft cap but as of 3.1 these are reported as hard caps on epedia and rightfully so. It's fairly useless to keep posting soft caps when no one is ever going to benefit from it in any way. I've seen a few reports of "exp slowing down" and i think that's going to be the new soft cap equivalent from now on.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/30/2016 11:08 AM CST
I've brought a thief up through the ranks more recently than most on here. Stealth is going to be difficult for you to train in combat for awhile. It's a combination of your buffs not being very effective yet, and all of your armor hindrance. Also, I believe sprites are one of those critters that are super perceptive, plus you probably constantly have 4 on you which makes it even worse. Simu tries to have the stealth more RP'ish where certain critters have better perception while others have worse, but really it just needs dumbed down (ie stealth 20 ranks higher than evasion training or something) to make things simpler.

I struggled a lot with stealth even when I was into snow goblins. It's also why I never mixed armors even though I wanted to. I could hardly hide in full light armor. One thing I did even up until 3rd tier snow goblins was to remove my torso armor. It sounds dangerous but if you are backstabbing you should be getting quick enough kills that you won't be overwhelmed when you pop out of hiding.

No idea really, but from my perspective low level stealth was way out of whack. Now that I am at ~500 stealth, it is pure easy mode.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/30/2016 11:13 AM CST
Also, stealth cap is usually higher than what weapons/evasion cap at generally. Misshapen Germish'din are one instance where that is not true and it may be true also for some types of trolls (cave for instance).

It's really a shame too because both cave trolls and misshapen germish'din would be great hunting for a thief if it wasn't for the stealth cap issue.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 12/30/2016 04:55 PM CST
<I struggled a lot with stealth even when I was into snow goblins. It's also why I never mixed armors even though I wanted to. I could hardly hide in full light armor. One thing I did even up until 3rd tier snow goblins was to remove my torso armor. It sounds dangerous but if you are backstabbing you should be getting quick enough kills that you won't be overwhelmed when you pop out of hiding.

Odd I've just recently (last 5-6 months) leveled a thief up to mid 80's without really a single stealth issue. I held off training plate till I had around 100 ranks in other armors, but have always used a multi armor setup, 3 pieces till I started up plate.
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Re: Trouble hiding in Sand Sprites 07/30/2017 03:36 AM CDT


those leathers are hindering your stealth. you don't need that protection in sprites. get some piecemail storebought until you get about 150 ranks
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