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>> MAUDIO
Okay, whatever you say. If you've been around so long I am even more shocked and appalled by your current line of statements.
You are a very insulting person as of right now and I don't see anything you've said as constructive or positive. Your attempts to justify your current outlook and view on the past merchants are laughable at best. You keep stating your own belligerent view of how I'm "grasping at straws" but you fail to see that these items are points of development for this specific guild and may be of meaning to players other than yourself. Saying that I and others are "cowering" or "sucking up" is just a display of your weakness for creative thought and justifiable reasoning. You want all of us to let you state your one-sided opinion but when we express our views it's apparently contemptible and worthy of your insults. How does that work?
If you did love Fade and Sagacity than why state that Thieves have had nothing since '08? This is where I'm even more convinced of the status of inflation in your opinion. You should be too, take a step back from the keys and look at the fallacy of your own words. I don't care how long you have been playing or what you've helped name. I am only addressing your current post and attitude, this isn't some sort of contest. If it were it would be one about manners and I would have already won.
In the end, J did not rant. His first statement was a bit snarky and in response to the tone set by the original posters. I completely understand it and I agree with his responses. If you approach a situation with a chip on your shoulder and say "I've got this huge chip on my shoulder!" Someone is going to come along and knock it off. Instead of fabricating failures in our posts, simply see the angst in your own and try to approach the topic as a rational adult. Not some whiny little child who got the wrong toy in his kids meal. Okay?
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
HEXEDBYTHENET
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Development
04/02/2012 10:50 AM CDT
>You're correct, it's ridiculous to respond with how long you've been around when someone calls you new. The amusing thing to me is how many suck-ups have appeared out of nowhere. Kudos to many of you for finally posting in the Thief folders for possibly the first time. Kudos also for finally posting and adding nothing at the same time. I'm sure some of you have such solid backbones that if the Guild was removed from the game you would applaud the GMs for their insight and incredible work.
Know how I know you're a noob? You keep posting telling how long you've played and how awesome you are. And you just called me, of all possible posters, a spineless suckup. I'm totally sure the GMs and anyone who's read these board would agree with that interpretation of my posting habbits. Again, I beg you to keep posting. It's hilarious and I haven't seen suh a self righteous deranged poster in here since Shinrui or whatever shinies name was.
You're totally awesome and your one man crusade is just misunderstood, we all fail to see your true genius and so on.
Sorry Alexi, I refuse to allow your well reasoned and informative post to stand. I must engage maximum trolling.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Know how I know you're a noob? You keep posting telling how long you've played and how awesome you are. And you just called me, of all possible posters, a spineless suckup. I'm totally sure the GMs and anyone who's read these board would agree with that interpretation of my posting habbits. Again, I beg you to keep posting. It's hilarious and I haven't seen suh a self righteous deranged poster in here since Shinrui or whatever shinies name was.
You're totally awesome and your one man crusade is just misunderstood, we all fail to see your true genius and so on.
Sorry Alexi, I refuse to allow your well reasoned and informative post to stand. I must engage maximum trolling.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 10:51 AM CDT
>>If you did love Fade and Sagacity than why state that Thieves have had nothing since '08?
l2read. I didn't state nothing. I said little. Weapons that app decent and a good khri change aren't impressive in 4 years.
>>In the end, J did not rant. His first statement was a bit snarky
Thanks for agreeing on how it was viewed. I'd post more but it'll just get pulled because flowers and sunshine are all that's allowed.
>>bunch of other stuff
I've seen about 10 people jumping into the argument and I certainly didn't see all 10 disagreeing with me. So it looks like I'm not the only one with a negative view towards our development over the past years. Maybe you should be thanking me because this is the most we've seen any Red Name post in our folder in a long long time. You can continue to keep your blinders on and act like everything is awesome and I'll continue to point out where I see failures and try and cause change.
~Nancy~
l2read. I didn't state nothing. I said little. Weapons that app decent and a good khri change aren't impressive in 4 years.
>>In the end, J did not rant. His first statement was a bit snarky
Thanks for agreeing on how it was viewed. I'd post more but it'll just get pulled because flowers and sunshine are all that's allowed.
>>bunch of other stuff
I've seen about 10 people jumping into the argument and I certainly didn't see all 10 disagreeing with me. So it looks like I'm not the only one with a negative view towards our development over the past years. Maybe you should be thanking me because this is the most we've seen any Red Name post in our folder in a long long time. You can continue to keep your blinders on and act like everything is awesome and I'll continue to point out where I see failures and try and cause change.
~Nancy~
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 10:54 AM CDT
>>You're correct, it's ridiculous to respond with how long you've been around when someone calls you new. The amusing thing to me is how many suck-ups have appeared out of nowhere. Kudos to many of you for finally posting in the Thief folders for possibly the first time. Kudos also for finally posting and adding nothing at the same time. I'm sure some of you have such solid backbones that if the Guild was removed from the game you would applaud the GMs for their insight and incredible work.
>>Know how I know you're a noob? You keep posting telling how long you've played and how awesome you are. And you just called me, of all possible posters, a spineless suckup. I'm totally sure the GMs and anyone who's read these board would agree with that interpretation of my posting habbits. Again, I beg you to keep posting. It's hilarious and I haven't seen suh a self righteous deranged poster in here since Shinrui or whatever shinies name was.
>>You're totally awesome and your one man crusade is just misunderstood, we all fail to see your true genius and so on.
>>Sorry Alexi, I refuse to allow your well reasoned and informative post to stand. I must engage maximum trolling.
You've been trolling the whole time so anything you say isn't valid. Go troll the other folders with Pureblade. You two can find a nice warm bridge to sleep under and troll each other every right.
~Nancy~
>>Know how I know you're a noob? You keep posting telling how long you've played and how awesome you are. And you just called me, of all possible posters, a spineless suckup. I'm totally sure the GMs and anyone who's read these board would agree with that interpretation of my posting habbits. Again, I beg you to keep posting. It's hilarious and I haven't seen suh a self righteous deranged poster in here since Shinrui or whatever shinies name was.
>>You're totally awesome and your one man crusade is just misunderstood, we all fail to see your true genius and so on.
>>Sorry Alexi, I refuse to allow your well reasoned and informative post to stand. I must engage maximum trolling.
You've been trolling the whole time so anything you say isn't valid. Go troll the other folders with Pureblade. You two can find a nice warm bridge to sleep under and troll each other every right.
~Nancy~
NINEVAH1
Re: Development
04/02/2012 10:56 AM CDT
No one is disagreeing with you about development. We all think your attitude sucks, and if you want something for the guild ask in a constructive way, don't sound like a whining child.
At this point I have to agree with krooner, it's getting very amusing.
At this point I have to agree with krooner, it's getting very amusing.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 10:58 AM CDT
>>No one is disagreeing with you about development.
Actually the whole start of the argument was idiots disagreeing about development. So you're stupid.
~Nancy~
Actually the whole start of the argument was idiots disagreeing about development. So you're stupid.
~Nancy~
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:01 AM CDT
and he does have a point about ucu and pureblade trolling all the other folders.
[Uzmam - <pureblade's necro in plat>] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
[Uzmam - <pureblade's necro in plat>] "<chat>" "what you seem to not realize is that I'd love for Uzmam to be outed. That way she could have Divult finally apprentice her and I could learn those slips"
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:06 AM CDT
>>and he does have a point about [pureblade] trolling all the other folders.
Your conflation of "read/response" and "troll" is noted, as is your personal crusade against me.
As for the topic at hand, it's always better to say what needs development as opposed to saying nothing ever gets developed. Until you are able to highlight trouble spots and, in a best case scenario, how to address them, it's just foot stomping.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Your conflation of "read/response" and "troll" is noted, as is your personal crusade against me.
As for the topic at hand, it's always better to say what needs development as opposed to saying nothing ever gets developed. Until you are able to highlight trouble spots and, in a best case scenario, how to address them, it's just foot stomping.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:10 AM CDT
>>Weapons that app decent and a good khri change aren't impressive in 4 years.
How did we get from 3 to 4? 2012 is still just starting, lets not count any chickens before they hatch. Again, these are all still your views on what is or is not impressive. While, yes, some people have agreed with the points which you have brought up that does little to validate the way in which you express those points.
>>flowers and sunshine are all that's allowed.
You are making a gross generalization. Another obvious sign that you are far too invested in your anger and angst to be able to see anything in a rational light. There is a line between being snarky and being insulting/abrasive. J is on one side, you are on the extreme opposite. Don't get that confused.
>>thanking me
Yes, thank you for showing people what not to do in order to bring attention to our guild. You got us all to join in your worthless posting about how Thieves aren't getting what you think they should. Yes you did get a red name to post in the folders, alas you didn't get them to say anything worth a damn. Not only that, but you have managed to be offensive and childish. Thanks for that too, I think?
>>You can continue to keep your blinders on and act like everything is awesome and I'll continue to point out where I see failures and try and cause change.
And here is the root of my problem with your approach and views expressed in your current posts. It is, at it's core, not wrong to address something which you see as a failure. I have no gruff with anyone doing this, ever. What does irk me is when you choose to adopt an insulting stance and inflate your argument with one-sided views of the facts. Sure you might cause some change, but will it be a productive one with positive repercussions? Doubt it.
In the end, its like the old saying goes: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
How did we get from 3 to 4? 2012 is still just starting, lets not count any chickens before they hatch. Again, these are all still your views on what is or is not impressive. While, yes, some people have agreed with the points which you have brought up that does little to validate the way in which you express those points.
>>flowers and sunshine are all that's allowed.
You are making a gross generalization. Another obvious sign that you are far too invested in your anger and angst to be able to see anything in a rational light. There is a line between being snarky and being insulting/abrasive. J is on one side, you are on the extreme opposite. Don't get that confused.
>>thanking me
Yes, thank you for showing people what not to do in order to bring attention to our guild. You got us all to join in your worthless posting about how Thieves aren't getting what you think they should. Yes you did get a red name to post in the folders, alas you didn't get them to say anything worth a damn. Not only that, but you have managed to be offensive and childish. Thanks for that too, I think?
>>You can continue to keep your blinders on and act like everything is awesome and I'll continue to point out where I see failures and try and cause change.
And here is the root of my problem with your approach and views expressed in your current posts. It is, at it's core, not wrong to address something which you see as a failure. I have no gruff with anyone doing this, ever. What does irk me is when you choose to adopt an insulting stance and inflate your argument with one-sided views of the facts. Sure you might cause some change, but will it be a productive one with positive repercussions? Doubt it.
In the end, its like the old saying goes: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:11 AM CDT
>>and he does have a point about [pureblade] trolling all the other folders.
>>Your conflation of "read/response" and "troll" is noted, as is your personal crusade against me.
>>As for the topic at hand, it's always better to say what needs development as opposed to saying nothing ever gets developed. Until you are able to highlight trouble spots and, in a best case scenario, how to address them, it's just foot stomping.
Oh I see you provide good answers when you want but you troll many times or give out bad info on purpose.
There's hundreds of posts of things people want to see regarding Guild development. I'd suggest you browse them but you read every post on the boards so I'm sure you have.
Sometimes it takes foot stomping to actually get any sort of response. Foot stomping turned grapes to wine last I checked.
~Nancy~
>>Your conflation of "read/response" and "troll" is noted, as is your personal crusade against me.
>>As for the topic at hand, it's always better to say what needs development as opposed to saying nothing ever gets developed. Until you are able to highlight trouble spots and, in a best case scenario, how to address them, it's just foot stomping.
Oh I see you provide good answers when you want but you troll many times or give out bad info on purpose.
There's hundreds of posts of things people want to see regarding Guild development. I'd suggest you browse them but you read every post on the boards so I'm sure you have.
Sometimes it takes foot stomping to actually get any sort of response. Foot stomping turned grapes to wine last I checked.
~Nancy~
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:14 AM CDT
>>Oh I see you provide good answers when you want but you troll many times or give out bad info on purpose.
Thinking your attitude sucks isn't "trolling".
Beyond that, would you care to cite where I provided bad info, ever? Or do you consider "don't be a negative jackass" as bad information.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Thinking your attitude sucks isn't "trolling".
Beyond that, would you care to cite where I provided bad info, ever? Or do you consider "don't be a negative jackass" as bad information.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:17 AM CDT
>>Sometimes it takes foot stomping to actually get any sort of response
And you think the response you got was worth praise and commendation? You actually believe you just did something worthwhile?
You got J to say that he noted your displeasure and he could save the teams some work by not releasing prior Thief shops. Where in any of that did you see that something beneficial or positive was achieved? You didn't get anything done, you just potentially made the workload lighter for them by giving Thieves less.
I doubt they would really do this because of your posts. However, they can and could. As they have stated some Guilds have gotten the minimum for merchants and Thieves are actually pretty lucky. Don't ruin this for the rest of us by thinking your grouching is going to inspire anyone.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
And you think the response you got was worth praise and commendation? You actually believe you just did something worthwhile?
You got J to say that he noted your displeasure and he could save the teams some work by not releasing prior Thief shops. Where in any of that did you see that something beneficial or positive was achieved? You didn't get anything done, you just potentially made the workload lighter for them by giving Thieves less.
I doubt they would really do this because of your posts. However, they can and could. As they have stated some Guilds have gotten the minimum for merchants and Thieves are actually pretty lucky. Don't ruin this for the rest of us by thinking your grouching is going to inspire anyone.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:24 AM CDT
>>How did we get from 3 to 4? 2012 is still just starting, lets not count any chickens before they hatch. Again, these are all still your views on what is or is not impressive. While, yes, some people have agreed with the points which you have brought up that does little to validate the way in which you express those points.
The Guild has been around more than 3 and people were listing things from 08. It seems you pick and choose what to respond to and ignore everything else.
>>Yes, thank you for showing people what not to do in order to bring attention to our guild. You got us all to join in your worthless posting about how Thieves aren't getting what you think they should. Yes you did get a red name to post in the folders, alas you didn't get them to say anything worth a damn. Not only that, but you have managed to be offensive and childish. Thanks for that too, I think?
If it was worthless then why did you join? You said it was only my view then conceded earlier that more people have agreed. So am I a lone wolf or possibly representing more who aren't speaking out?
>>And here is the root of my problem with your approach and views expressed in your current posts. It is, at it's core, not wrong to address something which you see as a failure. I have no gruff with anyone doing this, ever. What does irk me is when you choose to adopt an insulting stance and inflate your argument with one-sided views of the facts. Sure you might cause some change, but will it be a productive one with positive repercussions? Doubt it.
>>In the end, its like the old saying goes: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
In the end we're not getting anything new. We're getting put into X3 only because they have to put everyone over there. Your honey hasn't caught anything in years so maybe it's not working. We can discuss this at the next Thief Meeting, oh wait, we haven't had one of those in years. I guess I'll suggest that to our Thief Advocate, oops can't do that either.
~Nancy~
The Guild has been around more than 3 and people were listing things from 08. It seems you pick and choose what to respond to and ignore everything else.
>>Yes, thank you for showing people what not to do in order to bring attention to our guild. You got us all to join in your worthless posting about how Thieves aren't getting what you think they should. Yes you did get a red name to post in the folders, alas you didn't get them to say anything worth a damn. Not only that, but you have managed to be offensive and childish. Thanks for that too, I think?
If it was worthless then why did you join? You said it was only my view then conceded earlier that more people have agreed. So am I a lone wolf or possibly representing more who aren't speaking out?
>>And here is the root of my problem with your approach and views expressed in your current posts. It is, at it's core, not wrong to address something which you see as a failure. I have no gruff with anyone doing this, ever. What does irk me is when you choose to adopt an insulting stance and inflate your argument with one-sided views of the facts. Sure you might cause some change, but will it be a productive one with positive repercussions? Doubt it.
>>In the end, its like the old saying goes: You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
In the end we're not getting anything new. We're getting put into X3 only because they have to put everyone over there. Your honey hasn't caught anything in years so maybe it's not working. We can discuss this at the next Thief Meeting, oh wait, we haven't had one of those in years. I guess I'll suggest that to our Thief Advocate, oops can't do that either.
~Nancy~
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:25 AM CDT
>and he does have a point about ucu and pureblade trolling all the other folders.
Ya. Despite my sig, not liking someone isn't trolling. Disagreeing with someone and correcting thier misinformation is not trolling either. I rarely deliberately troll only for special idiots.
GUESS WHO QUALIFIES?!
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Ya. Despite my sig, not liking someone isn't trolling. Disagreeing with someone and correcting thier misinformation is not trolling either. I rarely deliberately troll only for special idiots.
GUESS WHO QUALIFIES?!
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:27 AM CDT
>>I doubt they would really do this because of your posts. However, they can and could. As they have stated some Guilds have gotten the minimum for merchants and Thieves are actually pretty lucky. Don't ruin this for the rest of us by thinking your grouching is going to inspire anyone.
LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
I guess because you got told by a Red Name that Thieves are lucky we should just accept that and be all happy because obviously if it was stated by a Red Name it must be true. We've never been lied too before by a Red Name, never got told that a 5th passage existed when it didn't did we?
~Nancy~
LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
I guess because you got told by a Red Name that Thieves are lucky we should just accept that and be all happy because obviously if it was stated by a Red Name it must be true. We've never been lied too before by a Red Name, never got told that a 5th passage existed when it didn't did we?
~Nancy~
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:35 AM CDT
I'm just glad to see a conflict folder get some use.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 11:59 AM CDT
No stealing my conflict.
I'm not going to use this boards search feature (haha see the joke) to go back and look through all your posts. I've stated that you do provide good answers many times and you also troll and occasionally post bad info.
I haven't seen one post yet refuting my claim that we've had minimal development at best over the past years. Tiesse's departure was painful for our Guild.
I'm interested to see how 3.0 turns out and still think that the soft requirements for Thievery and Stealth need to be swapped. It's not really a personal thing for me but an overall concern for the Guild. Thievery will be my 5th or 6th survival so I'm fine all the way to 150. I do know of many thieves who hate training it and I agree it's a pain to train.
I'd like to hear more about carving for us and poisons but those sounds far off. It seems like we'll be tail-end-charlie on the lore split if we're focusing on lockpicks or poison.
~Nancy~
I'm not going to use this boards search feature (haha see the joke) to go back and look through all your posts. I've stated that you do provide good answers many times and you also troll and occasionally post bad info.
I haven't seen one post yet refuting my claim that we've had minimal development at best over the past years. Tiesse's departure was painful for our Guild.
I'm interested to see how 3.0 turns out and still think that the soft requirements for Thievery and Stealth need to be swapped. It's not really a personal thing for me but an overall concern for the Guild. Thievery will be my 5th or 6th survival so I'm fine all the way to 150. I do know of many thieves who hate training it and I agree it's a pain to train.
I'd like to hear more about carving for us and poisons but those sounds far off. It seems like we'll be tail-end-charlie on the lore split if we're focusing on lockpicks or poison.
~Nancy~
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 12:00 PM CDT
>>The Guild has been around more than 3 and people were listing things from 08.
And I clearly showed, using your own argument, that the guild has gotten things in both '09 and '10. To which, you replied that those were not significant enough for you to acknowledge them. Also, that I was "grasping at straws" in terms of guild development. What you failed to see is that those are your views and that others might consider them far more substantial than you do. I would than say that it is in fact, you who pick and choose what to respond to and ignore everything else in an attempt to get yet another insult or dig in.
>>So am I a lone wolf or possibly representing more who aren't speaking out?
You are a player expressing a negative opinion in a belligerent fashion. If you've read anything I've written, you would know that I don't care about your view or who agree's with it. I care about the manner in which you express those views and your offensive position towards those who are actually working and not just playing.
>>In the end we're not getting anything new. We're getting put into X3 only because they have to put everyone over there. Your honey hasn't caught anything in years so maybe it's not working. We can discuss this at the next Thief Meeting, oh wait, we haven't had one of those in years. I guess I'll suggest that to our Thief Advocate, oops can't do that either.
Again, a big red flag announcing your angst and lacy of ability to have rational discussion. Your posts are not beneficial to anything and only shows how weak your wit really is. I've watched you go through all the hoops now: insult, self-praise, denial, and now sarcasm. Enjoy your soapbox and the imaginary rose petals at your feet. You'll continue to look at things in a objectionable light and you have that right. Just as I have the right to say you are rude and the manner in which you write your posts is not going to help anything.
>>LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
Nope, there is less and things could be worse. Would you like to experience that for awhile? Maybe it would cause you to quit or at least re-guild and neither of us will have to worry about further discussions of this nature.
In the end, your nerdrage is too much for me to cope with. I can't have a rational discussion with an argumentative person, and I won't be brought down to your level of bickering. I will have to bow out of this conflict. You win at being an insulting and belligerent jerk. Way to go! You make me feel like the manatee that used to be Solomon's avatar.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
And I clearly showed, using your own argument, that the guild has gotten things in both '09 and '10. To which, you replied that those were not significant enough for you to acknowledge them. Also, that I was "grasping at straws" in terms of guild development. What you failed to see is that those are your views and that others might consider them far more substantial than you do. I would than say that it is in fact, you who pick and choose what to respond to and ignore everything else in an attempt to get yet another insult or dig in.
>>So am I a lone wolf or possibly representing more who aren't speaking out?
You are a player expressing a negative opinion in a belligerent fashion. If you've read anything I've written, you would know that I don't care about your view or who agree's with it. I care about the manner in which you express those views and your offensive position towards those who are actually working and not just playing.
>>In the end we're not getting anything new. We're getting put into X3 only because they have to put everyone over there. Your honey hasn't caught anything in years so maybe it's not working. We can discuss this at the next Thief Meeting, oh wait, we haven't had one of those in years. I guess I'll suggest that to our Thief Advocate, oops can't do that either.
Again, a big red flag announcing your angst and lacy of ability to have rational discussion. Your posts are not beneficial to anything and only shows how weak your wit really is. I've watched you go through all the hoops now: insult, self-praise, denial, and now sarcasm. Enjoy your soapbox and the imaginary rose petals at your feet. You'll continue to look at things in a objectionable light and you have that right. Just as I have the right to say you are rude and the manner in which you write your posts is not going to help anything.
>>LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
Nope, there is less and things could be worse. Would you like to experience that for awhile? Maybe it would cause you to quit or at least re-guild and neither of us will have to worry about further discussions of this nature.
In the end, your nerdrage is too much for me to cope with. I can't have a rational discussion with an argumentative person, and I won't be brought down to your level of bickering. I will have to bow out of this conflict. You win at being an insulting and belligerent jerk. Way to go! You make me feel like the manatee that used to be Solomon's avatar.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 12:03 PM CDT
lack of ability... I meant to say.
Lacy is my wife and her name invades my typing frequently.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
Lacy is my wife and her name invades my typing frequently.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 12:12 PM CDT
>>The Guild has been around more than 3 and people were listing things from 08.
>>And I clearly showed, using your own argument, that the guild has gotten things in both '09 and '10. To which, you replied that those were not significant enough for you to acknowledge them.
I'm not sure what you're reading because you keep misquoting me and then arguing with me over something I didn't say. I've never said we didn't get any development yet you keep riding that horse. A sweet merchant with decent weapons (thanks Tiesse) and replacing a khri with something useful is not some amazing development when you span it over that many years.
>>LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
>>Nope, there is less and things could be worse. Would you like to experience that for awhile? Maybe it would cause you to quit or at least re-guild and neither of us will have to worry about further discussions of this nature.
We've been at less. I'm not sure what Guild you're used to playing but Thieves have been the "less" many times over the past 10 years. We've had great development under some GMs and when we lacked a GM we had minimal anything.
There are some other Guilds who've had crappy development and they have every reason to be irritated as well. You act like because we aren't the only one we should sit quietly in a corner. Keep your rose-tinted glasses on and I'm sure they'll continue to work wonders for you.
~Nancy~
>>And I clearly showed, using your own argument, that the guild has gotten things in both '09 and '10. To which, you replied that those were not significant enough for you to acknowledge them.
I'm not sure what you're reading because you keep misquoting me and then arguing with me over something I didn't say. I've never said we didn't get any development yet you keep riding that horse. A sweet merchant with decent weapons (thanks Tiesse) and replacing a khri with something useful is not some amazing development when you span it over that many years.
>>LOL. Two recycled merchants is about as minimum as you can get.
>>Nope, there is less and things could be worse. Would you like to experience that for awhile? Maybe it would cause you to quit or at least re-guild and neither of us will have to worry about further discussions of this nature.
We've been at less. I'm not sure what Guild you're used to playing but Thieves have been the "less" many times over the past 10 years. We've had great development under some GMs and when we lacked a GM we had minimal anything.
There are some other Guilds who've had crappy development and they have every reason to be irritated as well. You act like because we aren't the only one we should sit quietly in a corner. Keep your rose-tinted glasses on and I'm sure they'll continue to work wonders for you.
~Nancy~
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 12:25 PM CDT
>>that many years.
It's only allot of years if your a kid. To an adult, 3-4 years is nothing at all. And since Fade and Khri were in 2010, than your 2 years timeline is like a drop in the bucket. It's not even a large enough percentage of the lifetime of this game to even consider it notable.
>>We've had great development under some GMs and when we lacked a GM we had minimal anything.
Every single guild has said this at one time or another. The simple facts are that we, and by way of that you, are not special or unique.
You continue to derail things with points of development and I attempt to address them with my own admittedly limited knowledge. However, the real problem is (again) your attitude and the manner in which you express your views. Weather they are wrong or right does nothing to change the fact that you are insulting and offensive.
Simply put, my problem isn't what you said so much as how you said it. Act like an adult with some actual gratitude for what has been done and you are more likely to inspire people to do more. I know you've said that you did like this or that, but the insults pile higher than your compliments. That is all. It's a question of tact and manners, no so much the value of your words.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
It's only allot of years if your a kid. To an adult, 3-4 years is nothing at all. And since Fade and Khri were in 2010, than your 2 years timeline is like a drop in the bucket. It's not even a large enough percentage of the lifetime of this game to even consider it notable.
>>We've had great development under some GMs and when we lacked a GM we had minimal anything.
Every single guild has said this at one time or another. The simple facts are that we, and by way of that you, are not special or unique.
You continue to derail things with points of development and I attempt to address them with my own admittedly limited knowledge. However, the real problem is (again) your attitude and the manner in which you express your views. Weather they are wrong or right does nothing to change the fact that you are insulting and offensive.
Simply put, my problem isn't what you said so much as how you said it. Act like an adult with some actual gratitude for what has been done and you are more likely to inspire people to do more. I know you've said that you did like this or that, but the insults pile higher than your compliments. That is all. It's a question of tact and manners, no so much the value of your words.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:18 PM CDT
>>I think this is part of your problem. You went from "[You] give out bad info on purpose" to "[You] occasionally post bad info," in a few posts. There's a massive range of difference between someone intentionally being wrong with the intent to confuse people and maybe sometimes not being right about something. It wouldn't shock me in the least if I'm sometimes wrong about how a system works. Hell, I could cite a few times where I misunderstood a system. But that's vastly different than me going out and telling people the wrong stuff because I want to confuse the hell out of them.
I didn't state you always give out bad info. Sometimes I think you mislead people intentionally but many times I've seen pretty informative posts on your part. I call it like I see it. Overall you post good information but when you want to troll you do.
>>But what development do you want? If you're disinterested/disinclined to let GMs know what the problem areas are, you're never going to see any kind of development.
I've posted many things I've liked to see over the years. The original start of this mess was on April 1st where I posted something about a Thief GM. It spiraled from there but the original post was just that.
>>But what development do you want? If you're disinterested/disinclined to let GMs know what the problem areas are, you're never going to see any kind of development.
As I've stated before there are tons of posts of things people want to see. The stockpile of ideas is massive and the Red Names posting responses to those can be counted on a hand or two. The only somewhat positive response we received was the request to swap soft requirements and we haven't heard anything since.
~Nancy~
I didn't state you always give out bad info. Sometimes I think you mislead people intentionally but many times I've seen pretty informative posts on your part. I call it like I see it. Overall you post good information but when you want to troll you do.
>>But what development do you want? If you're disinterested/disinclined to let GMs know what the problem areas are, you're never going to see any kind of development.
I've posted many things I've liked to see over the years. The original start of this mess was on April 1st where I posted something about a Thief GM. It spiraled from there but the original post was just that.
>>But what development do you want? If you're disinterested/disinclined to let GMs know what the problem areas are, you're never going to see any kind of development.
As I've stated before there are tons of posts of things people want to see. The stockpile of ideas is massive and the Red Names posting responses to those can be counted on a hand or two. The only somewhat positive response we received was the request to swap soft requirements and we haven't heard anything since.
~Nancy~
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:23 PM CDT
>>You continue to derail things with points of development and I attempt to address them with my own admittedly limited knowledge. However, the real problem is (again) your attitude and the manner in which you express your views. Weather they are wrong or right does nothing to change the fact that you are insulting and offensive.
>>Simply put, my problem isn't what you said so much as how you said it. Act like an adult with some actual gratitude for what has been done and you are more likely to inspire people to do more. I know you've said that you did like this or that, but the insults pile higher than your compliments. That is all. It's a question of tact and manners, no so much the value of your words.
It's interested you're telling me I'm derailing the thread started because of a post I made.
I've never been one for tact, I state things as I see it and if you don't like that then by all means throw me on ignore and never worry about it again. The who argument started when folks, some who don't even play a Thief, were telling me I was wrong. It's not come full circle where people are telling me I am correct or partially correct but that they don't like the way it was presented. I still haven't seen any numbers from those two particular merchants showing how amazing their sales were.
~Nancy~
>>Simply put, my problem isn't what you said so much as how you said it. Act like an adult with some actual gratitude for what has been done and you are more likely to inspire people to do more. I know you've said that you did like this or that, but the insults pile higher than your compliments. That is all. It's a question of tact and manners, no so much the value of your words.
It's interested you're telling me I'm derailing the thread started because of a post I made.
I've never been one for tact, I state things as I see it and if you don't like that then by all means throw me on ignore and never worry about it again. The who argument started when folks, some who don't even play a Thief, were telling me I was wrong. It's not come full circle where people are telling me I am correct or partially correct but that they don't like the way it was presented. I still haven't seen any numbers from those two particular merchants showing how amazing their sales were.
~Nancy~
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:26 PM CDT
>>Sometimes I think you mislead people intentionally
And I'd love to see any example of this.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
And I'd love to see any example of this.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:43 PM CDT
>>Sometimes I think you mislead people intentionally
>>And I'd love to see any example of this.
I don't save posts and there's no search feature. It's very possible you weren't intentionally giving out bad info but it just seemed to me at the time you were. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this when you admit you've given out bad information before intentional or not. I've gained good info from you regarding some of the new Lore stuff and I'll continue to read your posts and skip the ones where I view you as trolling.
~Nancy~
>>And I'd love to see any example of this.
I don't save posts and there's no search feature. It's very possible you weren't intentionally giving out bad info but it just seemed to me at the time you were. I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this when you admit you've given out bad information before intentional or not. I've gained good info from you regarding some of the new Lore stuff and I'll continue to read your posts and skip the ones where I view you as trolling.
~Nancy~
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:46 PM CDT
>>It's interested you're telling me I'm derailing the thread started because of a post I made.
I actually started this conflict, by addressing the manner in which you and the other poster were approaching this topic. So you are correct in it being started because of a post you made, your wording not your content. I also took that opportunity to point out the fallacy in the facts you've presented as a means to justify your current attitude.
>> I am correct or partially correct but that they don't like the way it was presented
I've never said you were right or wrong, I just simply pointed out things which you either overlooked or considered insignificant and stated that their significance does not hinge upon how you feel. I don't really care if you are correct or not, I can deal with you being wrong if you had any sort of tact about the way in which you post. Alas, you have admitted your lack of said tact so this is all a moot point. I will not put you on ignore because I might miss out on something else you say that is just so childish it really makes me laugh.
How can you seriously think that having no tact is a good thing? You can state things how you see it and still maintain a moderate level of courtesy. At least you should be able to. Nothing stopping that but your attitude and ego.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
I actually started this conflict, by addressing the manner in which you and the other poster were approaching this topic. So you are correct in it being started because of a post you made, your wording not your content. I also took that opportunity to point out the fallacy in the facts you've presented as a means to justify your current attitude.
>> I am correct or partially correct but that they don't like the way it was presented
I've never said you were right or wrong, I just simply pointed out things which you either overlooked or considered insignificant and stated that their significance does not hinge upon how you feel. I don't really care if you are correct or not, I can deal with you being wrong if you had any sort of tact about the way in which you post. Alas, you have admitted your lack of said tact so this is all a moot point. I will not put you on ignore because I might miss out on something else you say that is just so childish it really makes me laugh.
How can you seriously think that having no tact is a good thing? You can state things how you see it and still maintain a moderate level of courtesy. At least you should be able to. Nothing stopping that but your attitude and ego.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
MRAUDIO2662
Re: Development
04/02/2012 01:51 PM CDT
>>It's interested you're telling me I'm derailing the thread started because of a post I made.
>>I actually started this conflict, by addressing the manner in which you and the other poster were approaching this topic. So you are correct in it being started because of a post you made, your wording not your content. I also took that opportunity to point out the fallacy in the facts you've presented as a means to justify your current attitude.
You haven't pointed out any "fallacy in the facts". You said I was wrong then posted later saying I was correct.
~Nancy~
>>I actually started this conflict, by addressing the manner in which you and the other poster were approaching this topic. So you are correct in it being started because of a post you made, your wording not your content. I also took that opportunity to point out the fallacy in the facts you've presented as a means to justify your current attitude.
You haven't pointed out any "fallacy in the facts". You said I was wrong then posted later saying I was correct.
~Nancy~
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development
04/02/2012 02:18 PM CDT
>>It's very possible you weren't intentionally giving out bad info but it just seemed to me at the time you were.
Okay, in that case why not just tell me about it. You don't need some AP-style writing assignment citation.
>>I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this when you admit you've given out bad information before intentional or not.
Because there's a vast difference between someone going "well sometimes you're wrong," which is a totally reasonable view, and "at times you are intentionally giving incorrect information," which is an accusation that kinda pisses me off.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
Okay, in that case why not just tell me about it. You don't need some AP-style writing assignment citation.
>>I'm not sure why you're so hung up on this when you admit you've given out bad information before intentional or not.
Because there's a vast difference between someone going "well sometimes you're wrong," which is a totally reasonable view, and "at times you are intentionally giving incorrect information," which is an accusation that kinda pisses me off.
"hypocrite, thy name is teveshszat, and i just hope i'm there to see you when you're broght down." - GERSTEINJ2
Chatter[Gonifa] whatever, scripto-gnome.
URUTU
Re: Development
04/02/2012 02:19 PM CDT
I don't disagree with you on your basic premise, Nancy Drew. There's no question some guilds are doing better than others right now. Traders are suddenly riding high, but Thieves haven't gotten a lot of development lately, it's true. And even when we did get development I didn't always particularly care for it, like updating the Crossing guild. As you say, we're riding out a dry spell, in the mix somewhere with other guilds.
<<Sometimes it takes foot stomping to actually get any sort of response.>>
It depends upon what sort of response you're trying to get. You definitely did get a GM response, but I'm not sure it was the one we were all hoping for. Maybe I misread it though. We'll see how your Occupy Thief Folder plan works out.
Or maybe not. I don't think GMs will hold up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two. But I seriously don't think staff will speed up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two. So any results might be hard to quantify.
One thing I'd ask you to consider is that GMs more than ever before are asking our opinions about development. I don't just mean Kodius either. Alvy has been particularly good about it over time, possibly the stellar example. But there are others.
Long ago when player voices weren't as well heard, your technique would be more understandable. Maybe not optimal even then but definitely more understandable. I really don't think it's that way anymore. There's more interaction between players and GMs, who after all used to be players as well. From what I've seen the get angry first method is out of date today.
But who knows? Maybe Solomon will come sweeping in here admitting fault and saying that your posts have put thieves on the fast track to a long list of spectacular releases. Believe me, I'll be the first one shaking your hand.
I'll be interested to see.
Kaxis
>A dobek moruryn sits perfectly still.
>The dobek moruryn crumbles apart.
You say, "Hey, use it or lose it, buddy."
<<Sometimes it takes foot stomping to actually get any sort of response.>>
It depends upon what sort of response you're trying to get. You definitely did get a GM response, but I'm not sure it was the one we were all hoping for. Maybe I misread it though. We'll see how your Occupy Thief Folder plan works out.
Or maybe not. I don't think GMs will hold up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two. But I seriously don't think staff will speed up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two. So any results might be hard to quantify.
One thing I'd ask you to consider is that GMs more than ever before are asking our opinions about development. I don't just mean Kodius either. Alvy has been particularly good about it over time, possibly the stellar example. But there are others.
Long ago when player voices weren't as well heard, your technique would be more understandable. Maybe not optimal even then but definitely more understandable. I really don't think it's that way anymore. There's more interaction between players and GMs, who after all used to be players as well. From what I've seen the get angry first method is out of date today.
But who knows? Maybe Solomon will come sweeping in here admitting fault and saying that your posts have put thieves on the fast track to a long list of spectacular releases. Believe me, I'll be the first one shaking your hand.
I'll be interested to see.
Kaxis
>A dobek moruryn sits perfectly still.
>The dobek moruryn crumbles apart.
You say, "Hey, use it or lose it, buddy."
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Development
04/02/2012 02:23 PM CDT
>>You haven't pointed out any "fallacy in the facts". You said I was wrong then posted later saying I was correct.
Uh... Okay. Now I'm really done. Those opaque glasses from earlier are obviously doing the trick for you. Enjoy that.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
Uh... Okay. Now I'm really done. Those opaque glasses from earlier are obviously doing the trick for you. Enjoy that.
* SPLAT! * You destroy the annoying thing!
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Development
04/02/2012 02:56 PM CDT
>I don't think GMs will hold up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two. But I seriously don't think staff will speed up thief development because they're POed at a poster or two
GMs do have some discretion on what they do. If an entire guild is abrasive, thankless, and in general never happy with anything that actually gets done, they may opt not to work on things for that guild.
That doesn't include things like base mechanics now, given how DRs dev system works (or at least how it's supposed to), but it could mean the difference between getting a few recycled popular merchants at guildfest, and getting a few new and exciting ones.
This isn't a threat, it's just...GMs are people. They're going to focus on what's rewarding and fun. And getting told endlessly how they're miserable sacks of filth and worthless and how the things they do are either terrible or don't count and they should die etc etc etc is counter productive. Especially when you pursue it with an aggressive and abusive attitude.
These people are, essentially, business associates. They're not friends or family to be coddled, or treated in a brusque and personal fashion, but they're not slaves or beggars to be spat on either.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
GMs do have some discretion on what they do. If an entire guild is abrasive, thankless, and in general never happy with anything that actually gets done, they may opt not to work on things for that guild.
That doesn't include things like base mechanics now, given how DRs dev system works (or at least how it's supposed to), but it could mean the difference between getting a few recycled popular merchants at guildfest, and getting a few new and exciting ones.
This isn't a threat, it's just...GMs are people. They're going to focus on what's rewarding and fun. And getting told endlessly how they're miserable sacks of filth and worthless and how the things they do are either terrible or don't count and they should die etc etc etc is counter productive. Especially when you pursue it with an aggressive and abusive attitude.
These people are, essentially, business associates. They're not friends or family to be coddled, or treated in a brusque and personal fashion, but they're not slaves or beggars to be spat on either.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
URUTU
Re: Development
04/02/2012 03:11 PM CDT
<<If an entire guild is abrasive, thankless, and in general never happy with anything that actually gets done, they may opt not to work on things for that guild. >>
This is probably true regarding nonessential systems, which is why I hope "a poster or two" doesn't similarly trip the meter. Currently, I don't think it will.
Kaxis
>A dobek moruryn sits perfectly still.
>The dobek moruryn crumbles apart.
You say, "Hey, use it or lose it, buddy."
This is probably true regarding nonessential systems, which is why I hope "a poster or two" doesn't similarly trip the meter. Currently, I don't think it will.
Kaxis
>A dobek moruryn sits perfectly still.
>The dobek moruryn crumbles apart.
You say, "Hey, use it or lose it, buddy."
NINEVAH1
Re: Development
04/02/2012 03:31 PM CDT
Wow just got off work and this has exploded. Haven't read the whole thread but going to go ahead and respond to this
>>No one is disagreeing with you about development.
>>Actually the whole start of the argument was idiots disagreeing about development. So you're stupid.
No one is disagreeing we need more development. What we do disagree about is that we are under-developed.
For someone who has supposedly been around 10 years you don't know a thing about how developed other guilds are. We are one of the most developed guilds. The only guilds that have more are a few of the magic guilds.
If you want to complain about being under-developed go talk to a Trader, Bard, or Paladin. Not only do they lack development, they are still working on a focus/direction for the guild.
So cry some more.
>>No one is disagreeing with you about development.
>>Actually the whole start of the argument was idiots disagreeing about development. So you're stupid.
No one is disagreeing we need more development. What we do disagree about is that we are under-developed.
For someone who has supposedly been around 10 years you don't know a thing about how developed other guilds are. We are one of the most developed guilds. The only guilds that have more are a few of the magic guilds.
If you want to complain about being under-developed go talk to a Trader, Bard, or Paladin. Not only do they lack development, they are still working on a focus/direction for the guild.
So cry some more.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
GAMMERGIRL151
Re: Development
04/02/2012 04:23 PM CDT
>Empaths cap out their crap before circle 60.
Fact, not opinion :D
Fact, not opinion :D
ICON1
Re: Development
04/02/2012 06:40 PM CDT
My hotlist for development would be:
1. Fix backstab learning rate
2. Lower stealing timer/bring back secondary pool
3. 100th circle ability
4. Ranged disablers
5. Ways to train magic skills (no, not the current MD shake fan or whatever)
6. Systems like B&E
Those are the ones that spring to mind immediately and have been asked for plenty. I have thrown the odd sarcastic comment in about lack of dev and whatnot but I am just waiting to see what 3.0 brings for the moment.
1. Fix backstab learning rate
2. Lower stealing timer/bring back secondary pool
3. 100th circle ability
4. Ranged disablers
5. Ways to train magic skills (no, not the current MD shake fan or whatever)
6. Systems like B&E
Those are the ones that spring to mind immediately and have been asked for plenty. I have thrown the odd sarcastic comment in about lack of dev and whatnot but I am just waiting to see what 3.0 brings for the moment.
SHADOW7988
Re: Development
04/02/2012 08:11 PM CDT
I'd love a little B&E happening at the festival upcoming, maybe some NPCs to steal from, something interesting like that would be very well and good I think.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Development ::Posts Removed::
04/02/2012 08:33 PM CDT
Yes, even in the conflicts folder posts get removed.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Development ::Posts Removed::
04/02/2012 08:44 PM CDT
>Yes, even in the conflicts folder posts get removed.
Wasn't me for once!
Er, no, that's not a challenge.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
Wasn't me for once!
Er, no, that's not a challenge.
Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Development ::Posts Removed::
04/02/2012 10:40 PM CDT
Not really, no.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
