The meta-gamey nature of these undermine the roleplaying spirit of the game itself.
What exactly is preventing my character from being able to twiddle his thumbs in a certain way, or stopping him from daydreaming, aside from the fact that he isn't an estate holder?
I can maybe see the justification for daydream, as it provides an actual function, but twiddling? Why is that restricted? That's just absurd. Its sole use is as a roleplaying verb, and there's absolutely no sensible reason I can see to restrict that.
Any GMs care to comment on that decision?
TSCHO2
YAMCER
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 01:16 AM CST
<<The meta-gamey nature of these undermine the roleplaying spirit of the game itself.>>
Not really against its spirit. Chris's Mass, Iynn's Dependents, Hallow Eve. Three major roleplaying events that are also way meta-gamey. Role play is far more bendy than mechanics can be, one must fit the role play to the available mechanics not the other way round.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Not really against its spirit. Chris's Mass, Iynn's Dependents, Hallow Eve. Three major roleplaying events that are also way meta-gamey. Role play is far more bendy than mechanics can be, one must fit the role play to the available mechanics not the other way round.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 01:19 AM CST
That's a rather shoddy attitude. Why is twiddling my thumbs in a certain way not an available mechanic? There's absolutely nothing actually restricting my character from performing this task. It isn't something magical he would learn to do by becoming an estate holder.
I'm not seeing your point or the justification.
I'm not seeing your point or the justification.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 01:44 AM CST
>>Why is twiddling my thumbs in a certain way not an available mechanic? There's absolutely nothing actually restricting my character from performing this task.
The same reason non humans don't have fancy snaps, the same reason non Kaldar-Gor'Tog's can't do that flexy pose thingy, the same reason some verbs are only available via the use of select articles of clothing.
Some verbs are considered perks, some of which are awarded via items, race, guild and/or premium status. As far as the "why", I'm guessing because it gives you an incentive to pursue those things if you want those verbs? Obviously you want it otherwise you wouldn't be posting about it, so you may consider upgrading your account to premium in order to get that one perk out of the many perks premium bestows.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
The same reason non humans don't have fancy snaps, the same reason non Kaldar-Gor'Tog's can't do that flexy pose thingy, the same reason some verbs are only available via the use of select articles of clothing.
Some verbs are considered perks, some of which are awarded via items, race, guild and/or premium status. As far as the "why", I'm guessing because it gives you an incentive to pursue those things if you want those verbs? Obviously you want it otherwise you wouldn't be posting about it, so you may consider upgrading your account to premium in order to get that one perk out of the many perks premium bestows.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 02:28 AM CST
I don't give a damn about the verb itself, only the principle of premium roleplaying verbs being a complete crock. Premium isn't worth it, and I facepalm hard at anyone who thinks it is. Perhaps if they allowed two characters connected at once, but I digress.
Racial limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone.
Item limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone who can obtain the item(however, it's understandable that some items are premium-only, as they do provide certain options that are acceptably premium-only.)
Guild limitations are understandable, they add flavor and be accessed by everyone.
Premium being a limitation for roleplaying verbs that don't provide any actual benefit don't add flavor, they just take the verb away from everyone for the sole sake of being exclusive, which is a stupid reason to do anything. If I want to use those verbs, I can make use of act to circumvent this restriction. Because this verb has no inherent bonus attached to it, it makes very little sense to me for it to be restricted. You're looking to appease a section of the population with arbitrary and insignificant prizes, where you could be opting to appease everyone.
Turns out, premium players aren't the only people that play this game.
Racial limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone.
Item limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone who can obtain the item(however, it's understandable that some items are premium-only, as they do provide certain options that are acceptably premium-only.)
Guild limitations are understandable, they add flavor and be accessed by everyone.
Premium being a limitation for roleplaying verbs that don't provide any actual benefit don't add flavor, they just take the verb away from everyone for the sole sake of being exclusive, which is a stupid reason to do anything. If I want to use those verbs, I can make use of act to circumvent this restriction. Because this verb has no inherent bonus attached to it, it makes very little sense to me for it to be restricted. You're looking to appease a section of the population with arbitrary and insignificant prizes, where you could be opting to appease everyone.
Turns out, premium players aren't the only people that play this game.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 02:42 AM CST
>>Racial limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone.
No they are not, they are restricted to people of that race. They do, however, add flavor.
>>Item limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone who can obtain the item.
No they are not, they are restricted to people who have the item. They do, however, add flavor.
>>Guild limitations are understandable, they add flavor and be accessed by everyone.
No they are not, etc. etc.
I really fail to see the issue, personally.
No they are not, they are restricted to people of that race. They do, however, add flavor.
>>Item limitations are understandable, they add flavor and can be accessed by everyone who can obtain the item.
No they are not, they are restricted to people who have the item. They do, however, add flavor.
>>Guild limitations are understandable, they add flavor and be accessed by everyone.
No they are not, etc. etc.
I really fail to see the issue, personally.
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 03:23 AM CST
There are no restrictions on the races or guilds available to you, the player. You're free to select whichever race/guild you desire.
I had stated, item verbs are available to anyone who can obtain the item. With the exception of premium-only items, there is nothing restricting you from obtaining any item, potentially.
I had stated, item verbs are available to anyone who can obtain the item. With the exception of premium-only items, there is nothing restricting you from obtaining any item, potentially.
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 03:27 AM CST
>> I really fail to see the issue, personally.
Then why are you commenting?
Then why are you commenting?
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 04:49 AM CST
>>There are no restrictions on the races or guilds available to you, the player. You're free to select whichever race/guild you desire
You're also free to sign up for premium.
You do realize that, by your logic, they're also hindering your roleplay options by only letting paying customers log into the game, right?
>>Then why are you commenting?
A dissenting opinion can be constructive, or spark debate. Such is the essence of discussion.
You're also free to sign up for premium.
You do realize that, by your logic, they're also hindering your roleplay options by only letting paying customers log into the game, right?
>>Then why are you commenting?
A dissenting opinion can be constructive, or spark debate. Such is the essence of discussion.
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 05:13 AM CST
There's a difference between race selection and paying $40 for an online game subscription, nevermind the fact that it's a text game.
>>You do realize that, by your logic, they're also hindering your roleplay options by only letting paying customers log into the game, right?
Uh, no, I don't believe I said that. Thanks for attempting to make a dumb point, though.
>>A dissenting opinion can be constructive, or spark debate. Such is the essence of discussion.
Not when that opinion isn't backed up by anything.
>>You do realize that, by your logic, they're also hindering your roleplay options by only letting paying customers log into the game, right?
Uh, no, I don't believe I said that. Thanks for attempting to make a dumb point, though.
>>A dissenting opinion can be constructive, or spark debate. Such is the essence of discussion.
Not when that opinion isn't backed up by anything.
ICON1
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 07:45 AM CST
>I don't give a damn about the verb itself, only the principle of premium roleplaying verbs being a complete crock. Premium isn't worth it, and I facepalm hard at anyone who thinks it is. Perhaps if they allowed two characters connected at once, but I digress.
I have been a premium subscriber for as long as I have been playing, and I enjoy the perks - homes, extra vault space, more characters, extra hunting areas, extra verbs, LTBs and events.
You argue that premium is not worth it yet want one of the perks associated with it.
I have been a premium subscriber for as long as I have been playing, and I enjoy the perks - homes, extra vault space, more characters, extra hunting areas, extra verbs, LTBs and events.
You argue that premium is not worth it yet want one of the perks associated with it.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 07:59 AM CST
and if you want intensive roleplay, or a place where you can script afk with no interference from GMs, for that you have to pony up the extra bucks as well, for plat or TF respectively. Its simu's sandbox, so that's just how they have it set up. you get to rp more for more $.
personally, i think its worth it.
Preces meae non sunt dignae;Sed tu bonus fac benigne;Ne perenni cremer igne [Dies Irae]
personally, i think its worth it.
Preces meae non sunt dignae;Sed tu bonus fac benigne;Ne perenni cremer igne [Dies Irae]
TSCHO2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 09:39 AM CST
>>You argue that premium is not worth it yet want one of the perks associated with it.
You're missing the point completely. Roleplaying verbs that are strictly roleplaying verbs shouldn't be associated with it. It's retarded that this exists.
>>for plat or TF respectively.
Neither of which we're talking about.
You're missing the point completely. Roleplaying verbs that are strictly roleplaying verbs shouldn't be associated with it. It's retarded that this exists.
>>for plat or TF respectively.
Neither of which we're talking about.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 10:09 AM CST
Your basis for argument is that people who pay the regular subscription fee shouldn't have to pay additional $$ to have access to roleplay verbs. This is simply an opinion of yours, and is no more based on "fact" than our opinions that the perks such as additional functionality(bank books, vault books) and additional verbs are very much valid concepts to include into the premium package.
After all, as we've seen through this thread unfolding current Premium subscribers actually enjoy getting these extra verbs. Based on this "fact", would you not agree that these seemingly trivial roleplay verbs actually hold some weight and thus have leverage with regard to encouraging non-premium users to upgrade to a premium subscription? Isn't that the whole point of marketing?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
After all, as we've seen through this thread unfolding current Premium subscribers actually enjoy getting these extra verbs. Based on this "fact", would you not agree that these seemingly trivial roleplay verbs actually hold some weight and thus have leverage with regard to encouraging non-premium users to upgrade to a premium subscription? Isn't that the whole point of marketing?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
YAMCER
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 11:52 AM CST
<<Premium being a limitation for roleplaying verbs that don't provide any actual benefit don't add flavor, they just take the verb away from everyone for the sole sake of being exclusive, which is a stupid reason to do anything.>>
Using your example of twiddle and daydream. these two verbs are useable by everyone in the game, they just have extra "Flavor" as you would call it, for the premium subscribers.
Being able to twiddle bored or cold or evil does not in any way remove the twiddle verb from any other character. It isn't that you can't use any of these verbs, it is that you don't seem to like the "taste" of what you have.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Using your example of twiddle and daydream. these two verbs are useable by everyone in the game, they just have extra "Flavor" as you would call it, for the premium subscribers.
Being able to twiddle bored or cold or evil does not in any way remove the twiddle verb from any other character. It isn't that you can't use any of these verbs, it is that you don't seem to like the "taste" of what you have.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
GRIM45
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 02:07 PM CST
This thread in tl;dr format:
Don't feed the troll.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Don't feed the troll.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 02:15 PM CST
I have to admit, it does leave a little bit of a bitter taste in my mouth when I see systems that are artificially divided purely to create perks. If you ask me, from a moral standpoint the best businesses are ones that only have premium systems for access to things that cost them more (like the additional resources to create and maintain the housing system).
I also think this issue is fundamentally different from guild divisions, which are necessary to create a fun game for everyone, and item verbs. Yes, really you should be able to pull any hat down around your ears, but that limitation is really born of GMs not having the time or resources to pull off something like that. The premium twiddle is there purely to create a reason to pay more money, and at its heart I don't like that. It may be "good marketing" but that doesn't make it good.
Finally, I also realize that twiddling itself is not super useful and ultimately not a big deal. But in principle I agree with the OP.
Just please tone down the snark.
-- Player of Eyuve
I also think this issue is fundamentally different from guild divisions, which are necessary to create a fun game for everyone, and item verbs. Yes, really you should be able to pull any hat down around your ears, but that limitation is really born of GMs not having the time or resources to pull off something like that. The premium twiddle is there purely to create a reason to pay more money, and at its heart I don't like that. It may be "good marketing" but that doesn't make it good.
Finally, I also realize that twiddling itself is not super useful and ultimately not a big deal. But in principle I agree with the OP.
Just please tone down the snark.
-- Player of Eyuve
PORPOISEHEAD
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 03:08 PM CST
This inequality is unjustifiable. This needs real protest.
Camp your characters in front of the Crossings bank and Occupy DR.
Lomelinde, Player of
Camp your characters in front of the Crossings bank and Occupy DR.
Lomelinde, Player of
OSUS
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 04:31 PM CST
Gods please if you're going to Occupy DR at least bathe once a day and make sure to withdraw a few plat an hour from the banks so that the rest of us can prey on you while you're making your stand against the tyranny of the twiddle?
Thanks
-Concerned Citizen
JARAGONA
Re: Premium verbs.
12/24/2011 05:49 PM CST
>twiddle maniac
Unable to quell the compulsion any longer, you twiddle your thumbs until your hands ache!
You also see a shiny scorecard and a shiny scorecard.
Obvious paths: none.
> read scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Liurilias - 747"
> read other scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Zerreck - 2456"
Unable to quell the compulsion any longer, you twiddle your thumbs until your hands ache!
You also see a shiny scorecard and a shiny scorecard.
Obvious paths: none.
> read scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Liurilias - 747"
> read other scorec
A shiny scorecard reads:
"Zerreck - 2456"
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Premium verbs.
12/25/2011 02:23 AM CST
>>for plat or TF respectively.
Neither of which we're talking about
the point is you pay more for more RP. which is exactly what you're complaining about.
whether its verbs, houses, hunting areas, bank books, more vault space,more character slots to roll up that big old moon-tog that stares at the stars, or whatever.
Preces meae non sunt dignae;Sed tu bonus fac benigne;Ne perenni cremer igne [Dies Irae]
FUTILITY
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Premium verbs.
12/25/2011 12:11 PM CST
daydream is a premie only verb? i'm confused about what is going on here
