Best TM training spell 03/01/2016 11:13 PM CST
What do you guys use? I've been using stampede for multi-hits but have found I miss more than I'd like. EC better? Or are you happy with an analogous or sorcery TM spell?
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 12:20 PM CST
I use stampede, too.
I find if I mix it with tactics I hit every time. Not hard hits by any means, but hard enough to learn. (1-3 mindstates per hit usually)

For the part of my hunting routine where I focus on TM, I target the spell, circle, weave, harness a bit more, cast...repeat.

At first I did: target, circle, weave, shove, advance, cast...repeat
As my TM has increased I was able to remove shove and add harness for more mana (and I believe a bit more learning)
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 01:22 PM CST
This is a great thread!

450s in magic, 30s in TM. If I wanted to bring it "to level" should I follow the critter ladder?

Is it better to target or target chest?
Are the TM masteries worth it? Is TM learning based on damage done or just hitting with a spell? If it is based on damage, does putting more mana equal more damage? What spell stance should be set? Would casting debilitating spells first help with hitting with TM?

I tried casting DEVI and EC a few times, but was never impressed. My prior TM experience was class taught and the random Fire Shard runestones.

-TM novice
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 09:22 PM CST
I just started using CAC for training with my baby Ranger and it's working out ok. ~450 PM/350 TM.
I generally min prep target and harness 5 before casting.

-Vision et al
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 09:40 PM CST
FWIW, I rolled up a newbie ranger a few days ago and chose Eagle's Cry for her first spell. So far, it works well in teaching TM.

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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 09:43 PM CST
>Is it better to target or target chest?
Are the TM masteries worth it? Is TM learning based on damage done or just hitting with a spell? If it is based on damage, does putting more mana equal more damage? What spell stance should be set? Would casting debilitating spells first help with hitting with TM?

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Targeted_Magic_skill

"TM experience heavily depends on the damage inflicted by the spells, and fine targeting body parts provides no boost. Targeting critters of difficulty appropriate to your skill levels may also be necessary for effective learning. Discipline increase TM accuracy, Intelligence and Wisdom increase damage. "

"Opponent balance is a key factor in the outcome of a targeted spell. An opponent with compromised balance is significantly easier to hit with a targeted spell, and moreover, they are likely to receive significantly more damage."

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Tactics

You can use debilitation and/or weave/shove to soften your targets. I use weave pretty often with spellcasting TM. It's a defensive debuff of anything engaged to you at pole or melee. When your targets shake off the weave debuff, just do it again. You could also shove them to knock them down if they're at melee.

Appraise Creature Careful and you'll be able to gauge how well they'll train TM for you. Training TM will be easier in general if you cast on creatures who don't wear shields.



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Re: Best TM training spell 03/02/2016 09:45 PM CST
>Are the TM masteries worth it?

I would also recommend picking up the TM mastery. You have a lot of catching up to do with TM and it'll help. Also, you can forget a magical technique for ~2 gold at any time without any limitation so it's not a decision you have to agonize over.



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Re: Best TM training spell 03/03/2016 05:23 PM CST
>>Are the TM masteries worth it? Is TM learning based on damage done or just hitting with a spell? If it is based on damage, does putting more mana equal more damage? What spell stance should be set? Would casting debilitating spells first help with hitting with TM?

IIRC, similar to weapons, landing a good hit on an on-level critter matters more than the damage itself (mainly to not penalize players who aren't equipped/whatever for max damage). I think the other factor is the roundtime associated with the action. So someone landing five two second hits should kinda/sorta get similar exp compared to someone landing two five second hits. This way someone using a sling isn't able to learn better/faster than someone using a crossbow. I'd be surprised if TM works on an exp model separate from other offensive skills. Casting a TM spell at your personal cap also gives a minor exp boost, but it's nothing to write home about (so use it if you can't, but don't sweat it if you can't). Debilitation has a similar learning method.

AFAIK, you're also not penalized for reducing a target's defenses, which increases your ability to land a solid (as in not almost missing, not solid the damage level) hit, which essentially increases your experience, as well.

>>https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Targeted_Magic_skill

I think the damage part was there pre-3.0. I'm not sure it's still accurate/correct. I'd be surprised if TM works differently than other weapons,.

>>I would also recommend picking up the TM mastery. You have a lot of catching up to do with TM and it'll help.

I don't believe the mastery lets gives you a to-hit bonus outside of being able to cast higher and the bonuses associated with that. The masteries strictly deal with the ability to cast a spell well. Unless you're having trouble casting TM spells, I don't think TM mastery helps all that much.



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Re: Best TM training spell 03/03/2016 05:47 PM CST
>I don't believe the mastery lets gives you a to-hit bonus outside of being able to cast higher and the bonuses associated with that. The masteries strictly deal with the ability to cast a spell well. Unless you're having trouble casting TM spells, I don't think TM mastery helps all that much.

TM mastery solely lets you put more mana into the spell. The GMs have confirmed there is no accuracy bonus.



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Re: Best TM training spell 03/03/2016 06:26 PM CST
<<TM mastery solely lets you put more mana into the spell. The GMs have confirmed there is no accuracy bonus.

This is correct, although just to avoid confusion I'll spell it out (hehe pun!) even more specifically. TM skill improves both the damage and accuracy of a TM spell, but the TM Mastery feat only applies its skill boost to the damage calculation after the accuracy is calculated.
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/03/2016 06:45 PM CST
>This is correct, although just to avoid confusion I'll spell it out (hehe pun!) even more specifically. TM skill improves both the damage and accuracy of a TM spell, but the TM Mastery feat only applies its skill boost to the damage calculation after the accuracy is calculated.

No, Caraamon was correct. There is no inherent damage bonus to TM Mastery, it simply exists to let you put more mana in the spell than you otherwise could.

More mana will increase the damage, but that's more mana. A 10 mana Fire Ball is a 10 mana Fire Ball regardless if you have TM Mastery or not.

-Armifer
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Re: Best TM training spell 03/06/2016 08:46 PM CST
If you have Wisdom of the Pack spell, make sure to cast that at your max cast to boost Wisdom. This aids in most TM and debilitation spell damage/accuracy.

I always do this first and have better results.
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