Now that I'm back after my long sleep, Im wondering something. Who upstairs is running the guild these days? I've come across a coupla posts from Sithix who seems to be working on stuff for us, but is that all we've got or are there some silent types behind the scenes too?
Cheers,
Arvedui
TYPHAN
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/28/2011 12:14 PM CST
1) Welcome back!
2) Sithix has been kind enough to act as intermediary on a few Ranger issues, but I do not know if the guild has a formal champion at the exact moment.
*******
Malkien
2) Sithix has been kind enough to act as intermediary on a few Ranger issues, but I do not know if the guild has a formal champion at the exact moment.
*******
Malkien
SHADOW7988
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/28/2011 08:59 PM CST
Rangers used to have SGM Adadusia (sorry about spelling), and she left, with no plans for return. Sithix is I believe the head of the Survival Team, or really up in the Survival Team. He is currently (amongst many other duties) working on Companions for the rangers (as rangers are survival primary... so yes).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
WINDMAN
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/29/2011 02:57 AM CST
I think the issue is that over the last decade and a half, they get so worn out trying to "herd cats" within the Ranger guild, that they just burn out and need a break. I hear therapy is really paying off for a couple of them. A few escape just in time according to the warning signs...
Hawkman
"B. R."
GOODALEM1
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/29/2011 10:29 AM CST
Audacia misses us.
But no, as of now, I don't believe we have an official Champion. Which sucks, cuz, I mean, honestly, what other guild is as awesome as rangers? You'd think the GMs would be lining up and killing each other the chance to be 'Ranger Guru'!
No Ranger Stands Alone.
But no, as of now, I don't believe we have an official Champion. Which sucks, cuz, I mean, honestly, what other guild is as awesome as rangers? You'd think the GMs would be lining up and killing each other the chance to be 'Ranger Guru'!
No Ranger Stands Alone.
PBOMBARD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/29/2011 11:19 AM CST
>You'd think the GMs would be lining up and killing each other the chance to be 'Ranger Guru'!
Too many broken systems and problems that have been around too long.
Everyone has expectations that these will be resolved, which may not line up with the interests or talents of the available GMs.
Combine that with the interests and directions of the GMs doing dev not taking into account things that were supposed to be in the queue for rangers (hello Siren's call) and more players get frustrated.
Even when someone does happen to come along that can deal with some or all of the challenges, real-life has a bad habit of intervening.
Players already disgruntled get more disgruntled when something else breaks and is never fixed, something gets nerfed when even more OP stuff is left alone, some guild ability gets handed out to the rest of the game, but stuff that actually fits with rangers isn't shared... And the barrier to entry increases.
Welcome to the ranger's guild for the past 10 years?
Basically you have to decide to play a ranger because you like things how they are and be willing to accept that nothing much will be done about the stuff that isn't so great.
-pete
Too many broken systems and problems that have been around too long.
Everyone has expectations that these will be resolved, which may not line up with the interests or talents of the available GMs.
Combine that with the interests and directions of the GMs doing dev not taking into account things that were supposed to be in the queue for rangers (hello Siren's call) and more players get frustrated.
Even when someone does happen to come along that can deal with some or all of the challenges, real-life has a bad habit of intervening.
Players already disgruntled get more disgruntled when something else breaks and is never fixed, something gets nerfed when even more OP stuff is left alone, some guild ability gets handed out to the rest of the game, but stuff that actually fits with rangers isn't shared... And the barrier to entry increases.
Welcome to the ranger's guild for the past 10 years?
Basically you have to decide to play a ranger because you like things how they are and be willing to accept that nothing much will be done about the stuff that isn't so great.
-pete
WOODR33
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/29/2011 06:02 PM CST
(Attaches his new badge to his tunic that reads "PBOMBARD For Ranger Dev 2012!")
PBOMBARD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/29/2011 09:06 PM CST
>(Attaches his new badge to his tunic that reads "PBOMBARD For Ranger Dev 2012!")
Unfortunately, real-life has taken its toll on my time as well, otherwise I'd have applied years ago.
-pete
Unfortunately, real-life has taken its toll on my time as well, otherwise I'd have applied years ago.
-pete
DUNEPLAY
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/30/2011 04:02 PM CST
PLEASE someone with the know how and experience APPLY for the sainthood...er ranger liason, or whatever it's called now. I have the time but not the know how and besides if I ever were selected, Hanryu probably would have a kitten and quit posting or hearing what I might have to say. So please, someone take the job!
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/30/2011 05:09 PM CST
>>PLEASE someone with the know how and experience APPLY for the sainthood...er ranger liason, or whatever it's called now. I have the time but not the know how and besides if I ever were selected, Hanryu probably would have a kitten and quit posting or hearing what I might have to say. So please, someone take the job!
Ranger Guru's all well and good. It still comes down to the number of active coders the staff has available, and what their priorities are.
*******
Vibrant orange flames seem to flicker in the Solomon's GM eyes, capturing your attention with a mesmerising stare.
You feel a calm wash over you, but you think about internet arguments and nerd rage, and it goes away.
Ranger Guru's all well and good. It still comes down to the number of active coders the staff has available, and what their priorities are.
*******
Vibrant orange flames seem to flicker in the Solomon's GM eyes, capturing your attention with a mesmerising stare.
You feel a calm wash over you, but you think about internet arguments and nerd rage, and it goes away.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/30/2011 05:36 PM CST
>>Ranger Guru's all well and good. It still comes down to the number of active coders the staff has available, and what their priorities are.
I welcome anyone who has the drive and the inclination to learn GSL to apply for a development position, but there is a reality here to keep in mind.
In the modern guilds-systems dev structure, we attempt to strongly focus developers on cross-guild development. To be blunt, many of us do not look fondly on the days of guild-specific developers. GMs have their preferences and niches, and we respect that, but we expect and insist everyone has a wider focus than the guild they played. We are not above intentionally assigning new devs to assist on projects that'd have no impact on the characters they used as players, to help foster this.
Also, off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single active developer who has the luxury of working on a single system or a single guild.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I welcome anyone who has the drive and the inclination to learn GSL to apply for a development position, but there is a reality here to keep in mind.
In the modern guilds-systems dev structure, we attempt to strongly focus developers on cross-guild development. To be blunt, many of us do not look fondly on the days of guild-specific developers. GMs have their preferences and niches, and we respect that, but we expect and insist everyone has a wider focus than the guild they played. We are not above intentionally assigning new devs to assist on projects that'd have no impact on the characters they used as players, to help foster this.
Also, off the top of my head, I cannot think of a single active developer who has the luxury of working on a single system or a single guild.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
CHICKENS
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/30/2011 08:56 PM CST
That sure doesn't make things sound very positive, Armifer.
Sithix is awesome and is doing his best. He took a vote earlier this year and the players voted for Companions (9 month project) being worked on before trails (1 month project) so as far as I know, thats where we stand.
As Pete said, like Rangers as-is and don't expect much to change but be happy when it does, and life will be good. Overall game development sure seems to be moving along nicely, so there is that at least!
I don't think player's attitudes or demands have anything to do with not being able to find a new guru - I think it speaks highly for Rangers as a whole that we all love playing our characters and don't want to stop long enough to become GM's.
Sols!
... and you thought you were safe!
Sithix is awesome and is doing his best. He took a vote earlier this year and the players voted for Companions (9 month project) being worked on before trails (1 month project) so as far as I know, thats where we stand.
As Pete said, like Rangers as-is and don't expect much to change but be happy when it does, and life will be good. Overall game development sure seems to be moving along nicely, so there is that at least!
I don't think player's attitudes or demands have anything to do with not being able to find a new guru - I think it speaks highly for Rangers as a whole that we all love playing our characters and don't want to stop long enough to become GM's.
Sols!
... and you thought you were safe!
DR-ARMIFER
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
11/30/2011 09:14 PM CST
On the contrary, I think it's some of the best progress we've made organizationally in the time I've been here. DR has always had a desperate need for generalists. The more hats a dev can wear and perspectives he can take, the more valuable his design insight becomes.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/01/2011 02:03 AM CST
>>That sure doesn't make things sound very positive, Armifer.
>>On the contrary, I think it's some of the best progress we've made organizationally in the time I've been here. DR has always had a desperate need for generalists. The more hats a dev can wear and perspectives he can take, the more valuable his design insight becomes.
Definitely agree. Guild-specific development created a ton of problems, in hindsight: arms races, embarrassments of riches (well-developed guilds begot more player interest begot more developers coding stuff for them). Each guild was basically a special interest group vying for more personal power and development, which eventually ran counter-intuitive to game interest as a whole.
*******
Vibrant orange flames seem to flicker in the Solomon's GM eyes, capturing your attention with a mesmerising stare.
You feel a calm wash over you, but you think about internet arguments and nerd rage, and it goes away.
>>On the contrary, I think it's some of the best progress we've made organizationally in the time I've been here. DR has always had a desperate need for generalists. The more hats a dev can wear and perspectives he can take, the more valuable his design insight becomes.
Definitely agree. Guild-specific development created a ton of problems, in hindsight: arms races, embarrassments of riches (well-developed guilds begot more player interest begot more developers coding stuff for them). Each guild was basically a special interest group vying for more personal power and development, which eventually ran counter-intuitive to game interest as a whole.
*******
Vibrant orange flames seem to flicker in the Solomon's GM eyes, capturing your attention with a mesmerising stare.
You feel a calm wash over you, but you think about internet arguments and nerd rage, and it goes away.
SHADOW7988
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/01/2011 06:53 PM CST
What I've seen with this is actually that there is a lot of code (that I've heard of) that was remade for different areas, things (and general code could have been adapted and held for everyone, instead of reinventing the wheel).
When things are general, let's say companions were part of a pet system: well if something was broke, and it affected every guild then two things would happen with this general code concept. One is that every GM would have a much better chance of understanding how to fix, or work with others (who also would probably have a better feel for it), and then the other is that, a heck of a lot of players would feel for this, and be requesting, hey can this be fixed, its not just affecting me, but you know that ** guild players are also getting affected.
So while I do dislike how some special things have gone away from Rangers, I am glad there are more things shared. I just like to see things like arranging most and finding tracks furthest to be followed through else where. Both from rangers and for the other guilds (because its cool being the best at stuff because your ** guild).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
When things are general, let's say companions were part of a pet system: well if something was broke, and it affected every guild then two things would happen with this general code concept. One is that every GM would have a much better chance of understanding how to fix, or work with others (who also would probably have a better feel for it), and then the other is that, a heck of a lot of players would feel for this, and be requesting, hey can this be fixed, its not just affecting me, but you know that ** guild players are also getting affected.
So while I do dislike how some special things have gone away from Rangers, I am glad there are more things shared. I just like to see things like arranging most and finding tracks furthest to be followed through else where. Both from rangers and for the other guilds (because its cool being the best at stuff because your ** guild).
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DUNEPLAY
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/02/2011 05:33 PM CST
I do agree that having developers that are generalists versus specialists is a good idea. I mean if you are coding something and know generally the needs of all the guilds and game, you can make it easier for further work down the road and make things fit in place better.
But I do wonder if what you want is another developer? There are masses of projects all over the place being worked on. Don't you need a secretary to keep track of it all? If you did, I would volunteer to keep track of what folks suggest in this guild or any other. The game is so replete with partially good ideas that get no further love. I'm thinking gemstones (anyone remember those hiding around the realms?) or more recently the treasure maps, or renting boats (for those who complain of the wait to get to the islands by boat) could conceivably rent a boat from Haven and sail to the islands and expand the concept to game wide. Such good ideas that have lingered undeveloped.
Perhaps a taskmaster(mistress) or secretary or whatever it is called these days, might be more helpful to help developers mindful of play suggestions and task development?
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow (yes she is STILL alive)
But I do wonder if what you want is another developer? There are masses of projects all over the place being worked on. Don't you need a secretary to keep track of it all? If you did, I would volunteer to keep track of what folks suggest in this guild or any other. The game is so replete with partially good ideas that get no further love. I'm thinking gemstones (anyone remember those hiding around the realms?) or more recently the treasure maps, or renting boats (for those who complain of the wait to get to the islands by boat) could conceivably rent a boat from Haven and sail to the islands and expand the concept to game wide. Such good ideas that have lingered undeveloped.
Perhaps a taskmaster(mistress) or secretary or whatever it is called these days, might be more helpful to help developers mindful of play suggestions and task development?
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow (yes she is STILL alive)
DR-SITHIX
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 01:26 AM CST
I am running the show of course! Not really. I do wear a lot of hats and I like it that way. Specialists simply don't work out. A doctoral dissertation couldn't cover the entire scope of why this is even if it were specific to DragonRealms. :P
Much more could be said, but rather than writing said dissertation here... if anybody has any specific questions about what the "Ranger Advocate" (currently not replaced after GM Audacia's departure) or "Team Survival" is all about (that's me), etc, feel free to ask them. New applicants are encouraged... but also encouraged to count the cost and if you're really ready to basically "stop playing" and put on a game designer's many hats. Some technical acumen is required, but not tons. All the great developers up here have some, but not all are software engineers by trade (I am a systems engineer). More important is attitude and what I've mentioned already, but if you look at code in any programming language or scripting language and your head spins, you probably ought not apply.
I feel it necessary to add that getting to work with great people like Armifer, Socharis, Zeyurn, and so many other excellent folks creates an impenetrable barrier against what should have already created madness in my brain. They're probably not so sure I've not already gone mad, though, so shhh.
>There are masses of projects all over the place being worked on. Don't you need a secretary to keep track of it all?
More developers would be helpful and no, I don't need a secretary. :P
For the record, negative feedback that is well thought out is not a deterrent to any decent GM working in any particular area. The "sky is falling" posts, however, probably are to most folks. I just ignore them as they provide nothing positive whatsoever and are usually the skin of the truth filled unintentionally with much falsehood.
>As Pete said, like Rangers as-is and don't expect much to change but be happy when it does, and life will be good. Overall game development sure seems to be moving along nicely, so there is that at least!
If you aren't happy / having fun, whatever role you are playing is perhaps not for you. If no other "role" seems like a fun time, I'm not sure why you are here. I'd be sad to see any customer leave for any reason, but this seems pretty logical.
>for Rangers as a whole that we all love playing our characters and don't want to stop long enough to become GM's.
And that.
OP,
Improvements are forthcoming, however long they take, globally, specific to Survival skills and systems, and specific to the Ranger guild. Companions are taking longer than expected. When I quoted a timeline, I said I don't like quoting timelines and it will quite possibly be wrong. I did take a vote on Companions versus Trails. Trails was longer than a month, but definitely not as much work as Companions. I don't really know how to define what your expectations should really be, but I would say that the current quality of staff translates into the solid fact that whatever projects there may be, they will be well thought-out, well-designed, balanced, and fun. The limited scope of "Ranger-specific" and even all the other things I (Team Survival) am doing is just one piece of the amazing puzzle being put together.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
Much more could be said, but rather than writing said dissertation here... if anybody has any specific questions about what the "Ranger Advocate" (currently not replaced after GM Audacia's departure) or "Team Survival" is all about (that's me), etc, feel free to ask them. New applicants are encouraged... but also encouraged to count the cost and if you're really ready to basically "stop playing" and put on a game designer's many hats. Some technical acumen is required, but not tons. All the great developers up here have some, but not all are software engineers by trade (I am a systems engineer). More important is attitude and what I've mentioned already, but if you look at code in any programming language or scripting language and your head spins, you probably ought not apply.
I feel it necessary to add that getting to work with great people like Armifer, Socharis, Zeyurn, and so many other excellent folks creates an impenetrable barrier against what should have already created madness in my brain. They're probably not so sure I've not already gone mad, though, so shhh.
>There are masses of projects all over the place being worked on. Don't you need a secretary to keep track of it all?
More developers would be helpful and no, I don't need a secretary. :P
For the record, negative feedback that is well thought out is not a deterrent to any decent GM working in any particular area. The "sky is falling" posts, however, probably are to most folks. I just ignore them as they provide nothing positive whatsoever and are usually the skin of the truth filled unintentionally with much falsehood.
>As Pete said, like Rangers as-is and don't expect much to change but be happy when it does, and life will be good. Overall game development sure seems to be moving along nicely, so there is that at least!
If you aren't happy / having fun, whatever role you are playing is perhaps not for you. If no other "role" seems like a fun time, I'm not sure why you are here. I'd be sad to see any customer leave for any reason, but this seems pretty logical.
>for Rangers as a whole that we all love playing our characters and don't want to stop long enough to become GM's.
And that.
OP,
Improvements are forthcoming, however long they take, globally, specific to Survival skills and systems, and specific to the Ranger guild. Companions are taking longer than expected. When I quoted a timeline, I said I don't like quoting timelines and it will quite possibly be wrong. I did take a vote on Companions versus Trails. Trails was longer than a month, but definitely not as much work as Companions. I don't really know how to define what your expectations should really be, but I would say that the current quality of staff translates into the solid fact that whatever projects there may be, they will be well thought-out, well-designed, balanced, and fun. The limited scope of "Ranger-specific" and even all the other things I (Team Survival) am doing is just one piece of the amazing puzzle being put together.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
JASON42
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 12:14 PM CST
Thanks for the reply Sithix -
Not to go too far off topic, but do you think the new Companions system will be released before the 3.0 stuff? Seems like not much else can / should be released before that as it would theoretically have to be re-coded (to one extent or another) after the 3.0 transition.
And yes, I realize you just said you don't like to give timelines... just curious :)
- Kart
Not to go too far off topic, but do you think the new Companions system will be released before the 3.0 stuff? Seems like not much else can / should be released before that as it would theoretically have to be re-coded (to one extent or another) after the 3.0 transition.
And yes, I realize you just said you don't like to give timelines... just curious :)
- Kart
DR-SITHIX
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 12:31 PM CST
Skills 3.0 would be required first but I don't think that's going to be a problem... it would have been anyway... Magic/Combat 3.0 isn't really a requirement. It will be obviously before I come back around later and make the cyclical spell for Companions that would "empower" the Companion into a "combat mode", etc.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
PBOMBARD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 01:58 PM CST
Are things like creature stealing, trapping, or animal calls still under consideration?
It was kind of disheartening to see something like Siren come out when we had been promised animal calls / lures (AL-based ability that functioned like Siren for non-undead/intelligent critters) so long ago and then have some red-name say we can't give that ability to every guild...
-pete
It was kind of disheartening to see something like Siren come out when we had been promised animal calls / lures (AL-based ability that functioned like Siren for non-undead/intelligent critters) so long ago and then have some red-name say we can't give that ability to every guild...
-pete
DR-SITHIX
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 05:17 PM CST
>Are things like creature stealing, trapping, or animal calls still under consideration?
I wouldn't necessarily say any of those have ever been off the table so to speak. They are obviously not at the top of my list as of right now or I'd be talking about them a lot more and talking about Companions, Trails, and Tracking a lot less. Of course I could define all three of them ten different ways. :P
>we can't give that ability to every guild
>Siren
An extremely valuable and true statement in general, the context of the quote notwithstanding. When I see people coveting abilities that other guilds have, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, and I hope to see more of that happen in every guild. I certainly have no intention to un-specialize that special ability and generalize it across the guilds. This is a general statement without regard to specifically Siren or spawn-generating abilities, but applies there as well.
Much more could be said, but I will not consider spawn-related stuff prior to X3 completion.
But, suffice to say I am for guild abilities being special and not general. This removes from you the ability to have something that does equivocally what Siren does, but that doesn't necessarily remove the sphere of spawn manipulation. If I consider it in-theme for you conceptually there's something there that might happen. But like I said, I'm not talking spawn-related mechanics at present.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
I wouldn't necessarily say any of those have ever been off the table so to speak. They are obviously not at the top of my list as of right now or I'd be talking about them a lot more and talking about Companions, Trails, and Tracking a lot less. Of course I could define all three of them ten different ways. :P
>we can't give that ability to every guild
>Siren
An extremely valuable and true statement in general, the context of the quote notwithstanding. When I see people coveting abilities that other guilds have, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, and I hope to see more of that happen in every guild. I certainly have no intention to un-specialize that special ability and generalize it across the guilds. This is a general statement without regard to specifically Siren or spawn-generating abilities, but applies there as well.
Much more could be said, but I will not consider spawn-related stuff prior to X3 completion.
But, suffice to say I am for guild abilities being special and not general. This removes from you the ability to have something that does equivocally what Siren does, but that doesn't necessarily remove the sphere of spawn manipulation. If I consider it in-theme for you conceptually there's something there that might happen. But like I said, I'm not talking spawn-related mechanics at present.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
NEELD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 05:36 PM CST
<<To be blunt, many of us do not look fondly on the days of guild-specific developers.
Irony.
Madigan
Irony.
Madigan
DR-ARMIFER
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 06:11 PM CST
>>Irony.
I still have some growth left in me. Would you like to take the journey with me, old friend?
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I still have some growth left in me. Would you like to take the journey with me, old friend?
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
DUNEPLAY
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 09:09 PM CST
<<More developers would be helpful and no, I don't need a secretary. :P>>
Well, since I do look at code and get all cross-eyed and wonder what the heck it is all about, can't be a developer. And you don't need a secretary ::sighs:: well that exhausts my level of the kind of help I can offer---soooooo guess I will go back to playing and having fun!
Nice to see your posts, Sithix and Armifer. Thanks for posting.
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow
Well, since I do look at code and get all cross-eyed and wonder what the heck it is all about, can't be a developer. And you don't need a secretary ::sighs:: well that exhausts my level of the kind of help I can offer---soooooo guess I will go back to playing and having fun!
Nice to see your posts, Sithix and Armifer. Thanks for posting.
Zinaca and her young raccoon, Shadow
PBOMBARD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/03/2011 09:53 PM CST
>This removes from you the ability to have something that does equivocally what Siren does, but that doesn't necessarily remove the sphere of spawn manipulation. If I consider it in-theme for you conceptually there's something there that might happen. But like I said, I'm not talking spawn-related mechanics at present.
I get the reasons to keep things special, but we are talking something that was conceived as a ranger ability 10+ years ago and had to be shelved because of technical reasons, much like the concept of hunt was something that Jent had written up as a tracking rewrite and was unable to get it implemented for technical reasons.
Why is it that it always seems to be good design to give out ranger abilities (fletching, animal lore, tracking, arranging) to all the guilds, but not the other way when it is something great that other guilds can do?
-pete
I get the reasons to keep things special, but we are talking something that was conceived as a ranger ability 10+ years ago and had to be shelved because of technical reasons, much like the concept of hunt was something that Jent had written up as a tracking rewrite and was unable to get it implemented for technical reasons.
Why is it that it always seems to be good design to give out ranger abilities (fletching, animal lore, tracking, arranging) to all the guilds, but not the other way when it is something great that other guilds can do?
-pete
NEELD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 12:00 AM CST
<<I still have some growth left in me. Would you like to take the journey with me, old friend?
One of the better sentences you have typed. Happy to take that ride.
Madigan
One of the better sentences you have typed. Happy to take that ride.
Madigan
RAIST
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 02:40 AM CST
>One of the better sentences you have typed. Happy to take that ride.
I think he may be asking you to explain. :P
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
I think he may be asking you to explain. :P
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
SAUVA
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 08:11 AM CST
>An extremely valuable and true statement in general, the context of the quote notwithstanding. When I see people coveting abilities that other guilds have, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, and I hope to see more of that happen in every guild. I certainly have no intention to un-specialize that special ability and generalize it across the guilds. This is a general statement without regard to specifically Siren or spawn-generating abilities, but applies there as well.
You'll forgive me if statements like this make my blood boil given all the things that have been taken from rangers and passed out to other guilds/everyone. And yes, I consider siren call one of those things. I'm generally ok when our stuff gets yanked and given out for the good of all, such as arrange/skin and hunt, since I do play other guilds, and I can certainly see DR through non-ranger eyes. However, when something that clearly should be in the ranger sphere of influence is off limits I question whether those making such decisions can see things from a ranger perspective.
To close this post with less nerd-rage, I'm very pleased with the huge amount of dev that's been going on lately, and I welcome to our new X3 overlords.
p.s. +1 to Pete's last post
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
You'll forgive me if statements like this make my blood boil given all the things that have been taken from rangers and passed out to other guilds/everyone. And yes, I consider siren call one of those things. I'm generally ok when our stuff gets yanked and given out for the good of all, such as arrange/skin and hunt, since I do play other guilds, and I can certainly see DR through non-ranger eyes. However, when something that clearly should be in the ranger sphere of influence is off limits I question whether those making such decisions can see things from a ranger perspective.
To close this post with less nerd-rage, I'm very pleased with the huge amount of dev that's been going on lately, and I welcome to our new X3 overlords.
p.s. +1 to Pete's last post
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
DR-SITHIX
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 09:39 AM CST
>something that clearly should be in the ranger sphere of influence is off limits
I have been pretty clear that nobody is saying spawn-related abilities are forever going to be off-limits for Rangers. I've said nearly the opposite.
It has been said that nobody should be receiving an exact duplicate of Siren, Ranger or otherwise.
I've said this multiple times in different ways. I've used the words exact, photocopy, etc. I could also use words like exactly, equal to, or in duplication of.
I'm afraid I don't know what else to say. If it makes you angry that you won't be getting a Ranger "lure"-like ability that functions exactly like Siren in every way, then fine. That is how it is and I value your response regardless. But, nobody at this point should be thinking "spawn-related" things are out-of-sphere for Rangers. If you are, you are simply wrong.
I would really prefer to circle back around on this topic after X3. Further complaints or suggestions specific to spawn stuff or Siren or whatnot should probably go to Complaints or Suggestions folders.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
I have been pretty clear that nobody is saying spawn-related abilities are forever going to be off-limits for Rangers. I've said nearly the opposite.
It has been said that nobody should be receiving an exact duplicate of Siren, Ranger or otherwise.
I've said this multiple times in different ways. I've used the words exact, photocopy, etc. I could also use words like exactly, equal to, or in duplication of.
I'm afraid I don't know what else to say. If it makes you angry that you won't be getting a Ranger "lure"-like ability that functions exactly like Siren in every way, then fine. That is how it is and I value your response regardless. But, nobody at this point should be thinking "spawn-related" things are out-of-sphere for Rangers. If you are, you are simply wrong.
I would really prefer to circle back around on this topic after X3. Further complaints or suggestions specific to spawn stuff or Siren or whatnot should probably go to Complaints or Suggestions folders.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
PBOMBARD
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 10:08 AM CST
>I have been pretty clear that nobody is saying spawn-related abilities are forever going to be off-limits for Rangers. I've said nearly the opposite.
May be lack of coffee, but I was reading it the other way, that you were saying the functionality was off limits. I get it now. No clone of Siren.
I don't think anyone was looking for or expecting that, given what we were promised was different than Siren. However the main effect of increasing spawn is what we are focused on.
I think part of our frustration is that if one of our signature abilities, tracking, can be given to the whole game in a BETTER form than our unique abilities allowed, then why isn't pretty much anything fair game for us? And I like I said, there has been a long history of "Oh rangers have neat thing X that is in their sphere of influence, abilities for all!" when others have wanted in on the action.
One of the ones that always rubbed me the wrong way was that war mages were the only ones to get an improved stance point progression when rangers have both armor and weapons as secondary. Yet that topic has been verboten, when it has been asked why rangers don't have that as well with our heavy focus on combat.
-pete
May be lack of coffee, but I was reading it the other way, that you were saying the functionality was off limits. I get it now. No clone of Siren.
I don't think anyone was looking for or expecting that, given what we were promised was different than Siren. However the main effect of increasing spawn is what we are focused on.
I think part of our frustration is that if one of our signature abilities, tracking, can be given to the whole game in a BETTER form than our unique abilities allowed, then why isn't pretty much anything fair game for us? And I like I said, there has been a long history of "Oh rangers have neat thing X that is in their sphere of influence, abilities for all!" when others have wanted in on the action.
One of the ones that always rubbed me the wrong way was that war mages were the only ones to get an improved stance point progression when rangers have both armor and weapons as secondary. Yet that topic has been verboten, when it has been asked why rangers don't have that as well with our heavy focus on combat.
-pete
DR-SITHIX
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 10:46 AM CST
>I was reading it the other way
When I did say "you can't have this" it was in the context of Siren itself.
I'd still like to see something more diversifying than just "make more creatures summon" in exactly the way Siren does it, but spawn-related abilities are certainly in-theme.
Honestly I'd rather see a Ranger do something neat with spawn that Siren can't touch and see Bards, Rangers, and perhaps one more guild able to work together regarding spawn, but I also understand that current mechanics engender one more towards isolationism sometimes.
>tracking
I don't want to talk about something I don't have approved designs to implement yet, but feel free to create a suggestions or complaints topic about this specifically, or both, and at least vet out your ideas and/or woes. If you mean Tracking is "stolen" because HUNT can be used by anybody to see people from a few rooms away, I'm not sure I'd call that Tracking per se. But, without getting into seventy paragraphs of details about that, there are certainly issues with the current Tracking system itself. That much is self-evident.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
When I did say "you can't have this" it was in the context of Siren itself.
I'd still like to see something more diversifying than just "make more creatures summon" in exactly the way Siren does it, but spawn-related abilities are certainly in-theme.
Honestly I'd rather see a Ranger do something neat with spawn that Siren can't touch and see Bards, Rangers, and perhaps one more guild able to work together regarding spawn, but I also understand that current mechanics engender one more towards isolationism sometimes.
>tracking
I don't want to talk about something I don't have approved designs to implement yet, but feel free to create a suggestions or complaints topic about this specifically, or both, and at least vet out your ideas and/or woes. If you mean Tracking is "stolen" because HUNT can be used by anybody to see people from a few rooms away, I'm not sure I'd call that Tracking per se. But, without getting into seventy paragraphs of details about that, there are certainly issues with the current Tracking system itself. That much is self-evident.
- GM Sithix
If you'd stop finding bugs I could code Companions 2.0.
BSWEET2004
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 06:52 PM CST
Im sure others have pitched similar ideas, but with it being brought up I had an idea for a spawn product that could be made by rangers... I'll post it in the other topic as well.
The Anti-Scarecrow
Ranger created item that can act like another person in a hunting room.
Made with:
A limb (the harder the limb type the more durable the end product)
A Skin/Pelt/Hide (again the higher up the type the more durable the end product)
Ranger assembles the anti-scarecrow in a manner similar to making a bow, step wise.
Ranger uses imbue beseech to "finish" the scarecrow.
To use you would go to a hunting room and PUSH scarecrow while its in your hand or on the ground. This would set it up. You would PULL scarecrow to break it down for traveling. While set up the scarecrow would count as another person in the room from a spawning standpoint. Creatures could advance and attack the scarecrow and eventually destroy it. The more durable it is, from the limb and skin used, the longer is lasts.
Alternatively the type of skin could determine how much damage it could take while the type of limb could determine the maximum time it will stay together...
Another thought is that if you use the skin from a much higher animal than the creature your hunting that it would negatively affect the spawn by scaring creatures from the room before they start advancing. Could be very useful if you starting in an area where you can only survive 1-2 creatures at a time.
Didn't have a decent name to attach to the idea and the concept may be a bit rough, but there it is.
The Anti-Scarecrow
Ranger created item that can act like another person in a hunting room.
Made with:
A limb (the harder the limb type the more durable the end product)
A Skin/Pelt/Hide (again the higher up the type the more durable the end product)
Ranger assembles the anti-scarecrow in a manner similar to making a bow, step wise.
Ranger uses imbue beseech to "finish" the scarecrow.
To use you would go to a hunting room and PUSH scarecrow while its in your hand or on the ground. This would set it up. You would PULL scarecrow to break it down for traveling. While set up the scarecrow would count as another person in the room from a spawning standpoint. Creatures could advance and attack the scarecrow and eventually destroy it. The more durable it is, from the limb and skin used, the longer is lasts.
Alternatively the type of skin could determine how much damage it could take while the type of limb could determine the maximum time it will stay together...
Another thought is that if you use the skin from a much higher animal than the creature your hunting that it would negatively affect the spawn by scaring creatures from the room before they start advancing. Could be very useful if you starting in an area where you can only survive 1-2 creatures at a time.
Didn't have a decent name to attach to the idea and the concept may be a bit rough, but there it is.
SHADOW7988
Re: So... Who is running the show these days?
12/04/2011 09:09 PM CST
I think a better name for this device would be a lure.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
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Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
