While this lore will eventually (I avoid using the s-word) find its way into the game properly, I figured I'd give you guys a little teaser here. Please let me know if you like this sort of thing being introduced through the forums, or if you would like me to sit on background lore until I can find a proper way to introduce it into the game.
While worship of the Thirteen has been growing among the Kaldar for over 300 years, since Akiran Dein first introduced them, Kaldaran worship differs significantly from Kermorian traditions. Although some of these differences date from the initial lessons taught by Akiran Dein, sculpted to appeal to Kaldaran life, most of them arose in the nearly 200 years that elapsed between his death and the migration to Kermoria. The most striking deviation is that the Kaldar tend to view all three faces of an Immortal as the same being, without reference to light or dark aspects. Though they recognize the other names, they are rarely used within Kaldaran worship.
The Thirteen (as according to the Kaldar):
Kertigen - The god of craftsmen, commerce and merchants. He is a pacifist and inspires greed, criticism and covetous behavior. Worship of Kertigen is sparse, as those who follow him tend to be viewed as weak and flawed. Accusing a warrior of following Kertigen is considered a grave insult. His symbol is a trio of coins; platinum, gold and silver.
Hodierna - The goddess of life, trial and tribulations. She freely grants life, so that she might steal it away again from the undeserving. Endurance of her machinations proves one worthy of the life she grants, while death by her hand is considered proof that one did not deserve her gift. Her favored tools are mishap, malady and murder. Her symbol is a fanged serpent.
Meraud - The god of magic, passion and unrestrained destruction. Much as he is the source of volatility within magic, he is the also the source of love, desire, and adultery. While considered a fearless warrior he is known for his unpredictable rages in which he will lash out at friend and foe alike with storm and lightning. His symbol is a forked bolt of lightning.
Damaris - The god of night, duplicity and vengeance. He is the paramour of Hodierna, and is frequently a conspirator in her schemes, if not the actually perpetrator. Only the most despicable of Kaldar will openly admit to his worship, though many more pledge secret allegiance. His symbol is a pair of parallel daggers.
Everild - The god of warriors, battle and strength. It is he who gives the Kaldar strength to survive Hodierna's trials, and he who guides the blades of the worthy. Everild favors those who prove themselves exceptionally proficient in battle, granting them immortal life in his personal legion should they fall in combat. Worship of him is quite common, particularly among the young. His symbol is a dragon's tail flail (a two-handed flail with a concave tetrahedral head).
Truffenyi - The god of parentage, civilization, and morality. A stern, fatherly figure, it is Truffenyi who taught the Kaldar of civilization and honor, and he who warned them away from the Gorbesh's empire building. While highly respected by the Kaldar, his worship has waned since exposure to Kermorian beliefs, as he has become tainted by his strong association with weaker races. His symbol is a pine tree.
Hav'roth - The god of earth, flame and smiths. He is the guardian of the Kaldar; he who warms them through the winter, he who defends against the Ocular, and he who guides the hammer of the smith. Weapons and armor that do not bear his blessing are not to be trusted, and even common tools are traditionally forged in his name. His symbol is a hammer wreathed in flames. (Like all the Gods, he is traditionally depicted as a Kaldar.)
Eluned - The goddess of the ocean, frost, and ruin. While Meraud's destruction rages unrestrained, sudden and violent, many find it preferable to suffering under Eluned's hand; for she will not be content until her victims are ruined in all things. Her symbol is an iceberg.
Glythtide - The god of madness, depravity, and regret. While few blame Glythtide for planting the seeds of failure, it is he who makes them flourish. Worship of Glythtide is almost entirely limited to those who have already felt his touch, and have naught left to live for but to spread his misery. His symbol is a bunch of grapes.
Tamsine - The goddess of peace, family, and healing. Consort to Truffenyi, it is she who enforces peace between the Kaldar and the Gorbesh, and she who shelters warriors on the field of battle so that they may return to their spouses and children. Her symbol is a kite shield.
Faenella - The goddess of creativity, revelry, and pride. It is she who drives Kaldar to excel in all things, to do the impossible and prove themselves superior to all those who have come before. Celebrations are frequently thrown in her name and the greatest among Kaldar will be tempered by her flames, forever more free from chill and melancholy. Her symbol is a golden circlet.
Chadatru - The god of courage, honor and law. The blinded enforcer of law and the truth, he imposes the laws as worded and trusts to Truffenyi to keep them just. He will hunt criminals and the honorless to the furthest reaches of the realms, striking them down unerringly with his great spear. His symbol is a great spear.
Urrem'tier - The god of death, mercy and the afterlife. It is to him that the spirits of the dead are entrusted. While all eventually find death, only the best find it at Urrem'tier's hands -- escaping Hodierna's trickery. Few worship Urrem'tier, instead he seeks those worthy of his attention, taking them in battle or quietly after a long life well lived. His symbol is a cloven great helm.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
DR-RAESH
NJP
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 07:49 AM CDT
Wow, I love that. Makes me want to play a Kaldar again sometime.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
JAREXLE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 08:50 AM CDT
SHADOW-FIGHTER
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 09:22 AM CDT
This is amazing Raesh. This is the kind of thing I love for my Kaldar to have. And posting on the boards is fine with me if we get it sooner rather than later.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 09:28 AM CDT
I kinda like the idea of having who the gods are and what they do being "tweaked" in order to sound more appealing to a new group.
DUNTS2
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 09:41 AM CDT
Awesome lore; I think it fits in very well with the way that the Kaldar view the world and their place in it. This is making me seriously jealous of having chosen a god for my Kaldar to worship already. Maybe he'll have a change of heart after coming across some worshipers of these particular facets of the thirteen, as the Kermorian versions did all seem rather soft for him.
In terms of the introduction of such lore, I think that information such as this, which is lore that's already existed in the world for 300+ years, should certainly be introduced on the forums. It's not as if there would be an event in-game and :poof: bunches of Kaldar would start worshiping the 13 in this way. Having it available here provides tools for character development, and it would make sense for Kaldar to already have knowledge of such worship prior to however you plan to introduce it into the game via books or whatnot.
As far as lore concerning recent events, however, having things happen in-game seems more appropriate.
-Broichan Leshyahen
> hum tuneless
You hum a tuneless tune.
In terms of the introduction of such lore, I think that information such as this, which is lore that's already existed in the world for 300+ years, should certainly be introduced on the forums. It's not as if there would be an event in-game and :poof: bunches of Kaldar would start worshiping the 13 in this way. Having it available here provides tools for character development, and it would make sense for Kaldar to already have knowledge of such worship prior to however you plan to introduce it into the game via books or whatnot.
As far as lore concerning recent events, however, having things happen in-game seems more appropriate.
-Broichan Leshyahen
> hum tuneless
You hum a tuneless tune.
QUARRIC3
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 10:17 AM CDT
Very well done and some nice twists to the normal. Kaldar may well end up my next racial choice from this lore alone.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
ISHARON
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 11:36 AM CDT
It's interesting to see the Immortals through the lens of another culture, especially those gods that are traditional worshipped by a particular race (such as Hav'roth).
I like seeing this information released on the forum (or at least announced where it can be found in the game when released).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
I like seeing this information released on the forum (or at least announced where it can be found in the game when released).
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
DIAME
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 12:10 PM CDT
I too am now tempted to start playing my Kaldars more. That is just too awesome of a take on the Thirteen.
===
Oleveir says, "One must be careful around the angry ODS women."
===
Oleveir says, "One must be careful around the angry ODS women."
DR-RAESH
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 05:14 PM CDT
I'm glad people seem to be enjoying it. I'm fine with introducing background lore through the forums first before I can work it into the game (Through books and such) but you are all quite right that doing so for recent developments would not be proper -- so we're on the same page there.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
RANTHIL1
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 05:38 PM CDT
<<In terms of the introduction of such lore, I think that information such as this, which is lore that's already existed in the world for 300+ years, should certainly be introduced on the forums.
This. I certainly would like to see it brought IG as well, but I always like aides to RP earlier rather than later.
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
This. I certainly would like to see it brought IG as well, but I always like aides to RP earlier rather than later.
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
DGUTHRIE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 08:39 PM CDT
Sweeeeeeet! None of my characters have ever paid much attention to the gods in DR, but that was well crafted. Perhaps my kaldaran barbarian may explore some of that. Very nicely done.
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
DR-RAESH
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 10:13 PM CDT
Seriously, I'm thrilled to see the positive feedback over this. I've got a lot more coming, and it's good to see some validation that the vision I have for the Kaldar is one you all seem to want to experience.
I think it's mandatory here that I drop a teaser here that people who like this might want to make sure they have a ticket for HE11.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I think it's mandatory here that I drop a teaser here that people who like this might want to make sure they have a ticket for HE11.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ILLIENA
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 10:32 PM CDT
> make sure they have a ticket for HE11.
Should we also get one for the fest?
Should we also get one for the fest?
COMEAUN
ILLIENA
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/18/2011 11:58 PM CDT
> That is the Fest. HE11 = Hollow Eve 2011
I know; it was a joke. I you prefer, imagine I had instead said "I see what you did there."
I know; it was a joke. I you prefer, imagine I had instead said "I see what you did there."
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 12:50 AM CDT
Interesting to see a Kaldar take on the Thirteen. The lore does specify worship of the 13 is popular, and I like that this take put a unique cultural spin on worship of the Thirteen.
At the risk of sounding contrarian, though, I admit am a bit worried. All the positive feedback seems to be people saying "I might start a Kaldar now." More interest in Kaldar always, always good. As a long-time Kaldar primary player, though, I hope the plan is not to completely abandon development (whether mechanics-wise or simply lore-wise) of Kaldar-specific deity systems (i.e. non-Thirteen worship).
*******
Malkien
At the risk of sounding contrarian, though, I admit am a bit worried. All the positive feedback seems to be people saying "I might start a Kaldar now." More interest in Kaldar always, always good. As a long-time Kaldar primary player, though, I hope the plan is not to completely abandon development (whether mechanics-wise or simply lore-wise) of Kaldar-specific deity systems (i.e. non-Thirteen worship).
*******
Malkien
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 01:08 AM CDT
First of all, yay development and yay gods who are actually interesting (much like the Ten).
That said, I still feel a bit squeamish about the idea of "worship."
My main problem with it is that it requires that the Kaldar openly seek help from something outside of herself. That seems to directly oppose the Kaldar ideals of self-reliance and proving her strength via trials.
So... I don't know, perhaps you can reconcile that for me. Until then, my Kaldar will probably continue to call anyone accepting "favors" from any god a big fat sissypants. ;)
-- Player of Eyuve
That said, I still feel a bit squeamish about the idea of "worship."
My main problem with it is that it requires that the Kaldar openly seek help from something outside of herself. That seems to directly oppose the Kaldar ideals of self-reliance and proving her strength via trials.
So... I don't know, perhaps you can reconcile that for me. Until then, my Kaldar will probably continue to call anyone accepting "favors" from any god a big fat sissypants. ;)
-- Player of Eyuve
DR-RAESH
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 01:37 AM CDT
>>I hope the plan is not to completely abandon development (whether mechanics-wise or simply lore-wise) of Kaldar-specific deity systems (i.e. non-Thirteen worship).
I have not forgotten about them.
>>My main problem with it is that it requires that the Kaldar openly seek help from something outside of herself
There are certainly Kaldars who reject the Gods as a whole, but given that actual, factual, divine influence is an actual, factual, thing in Elanthia -- they are in the minority.
Kaldar are big on self reliance, but it would be wrong to interpret this as meaning that they are unwilling to follow a power greater than themselves. Religion aside, without the ability to be a follower Kaldar civilization would not have remained civilized for very long.
>>That seems to directly oppose the Kaldar ideals of self-reliance and proving her strength via trials.
I think if you examine what was said about the 13, for those Kaldar who choose to follow them as opposed to the 10, there is a lot of opportunity for self-reliance and proving of strength through trials.
>>my Kaldar will probably continue to call anyone accepting "favors" from any god a big fat sissypants. ;)
As for people with favors being big fat sissypants... well, you would not be the first Kaldar to hold to that belief. It is somewhat common among those who still follow the 10, circumstances being what they are.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I have not forgotten about them.
>>My main problem with it is that it requires that the Kaldar openly seek help from something outside of herself
There are certainly Kaldars who reject the Gods as a whole, but given that actual, factual, divine influence is an actual, factual, thing in Elanthia -- they are in the minority.
Kaldar are big on self reliance, but it would be wrong to interpret this as meaning that they are unwilling to follow a power greater than themselves. Religion aside, without the ability to be a follower Kaldar civilization would not have remained civilized for very long.
>>That seems to directly oppose the Kaldar ideals of self-reliance and proving her strength via trials.
I think if you examine what was said about the 13, for those Kaldar who choose to follow them as opposed to the 10, there is a lot of opportunity for self-reliance and proving of strength through trials.
>>my Kaldar will probably continue to call anyone accepting "favors" from any god a big fat sissypants. ;)
As for people with favors being big fat sissypants... well, you would not be the first Kaldar to hold to that belief. It is somewhat common among those who still follow the 10, circumstances being what they are.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 02:30 AM CDT
>>There are certainly Kaldars who reject the Gods as a whole, but given that actual, factual, divine influence is an actual, factual, thing in Elanthia -- they are in the minority.
Oh, certainly. I can't imagine there are very many atheists of any race, and certainly not among the adventurers (who are regularly returned to life with or without favors). My point was that they could acknowledge the existence of gods, and even aspire to be like some gods (or endure the trials of difficult gods), without actually making offerings and asking for special treatment.
>>Religion aside, without the ability to be a follower Kaldar civilization would not have remained civilized for very long.
True, but there's a big difference between following a leader (admiring/respecting) and asking for help.
I'm not saying that it's impossible for Kaldar to ask for help. Surely communities must help one another, and there must be some who aren't warriors (smiths, craftspeople, etc.) and therefore need some amount of protection. So perhaps I'm just being recalcitrant. But still, something about the idea of kneeling to a greater power just seems very un-Kaldar to me.
>>I think if you examine what was said about the 13, for those Kaldar who choose to follow them as opposed to the 10, there is a lot of opportunity for self-reliance and proving of strength through trials.
You mean the new, Kaldaran 13? Yes, I did like how you specifically made Hodierna a tester, and gods like Eluned could be seen as sources of trials too. :)
By the way, I also forgot to mention. I wanted to thank you for embedding value judgments into the worship of some gods. There seems to be this implicit assumption among the "regular" 13 that anyone can worship any god without judgment. It always irked me that (it seemed) people could worship the god of stealing children or murderers and nobody would care. I'm glad you made it explicitly a "bad thing" (TM) to worship some of these gods.
-- Player of Eyuve
Oh, certainly. I can't imagine there are very many atheists of any race, and certainly not among the adventurers (who are regularly returned to life with or without favors). My point was that they could acknowledge the existence of gods, and even aspire to be like some gods (or endure the trials of difficult gods), without actually making offerings and asking for special treatment.
>>Religion aside, without the ability to be a follower Kaldar civilization would not have remained civilized for very long.
True, but there's a big difference between following a leader (admiring/respecting) and asking for help.
I'm not saying that it's impossible for Kaldar to ask for help. Surely communities must help one another, and there must be some who aren't warriors (smiths, craftspeople, etc.) and therefore need some amount of protection. So perhaps I'm just being recalcitrant. But still, something about the idea of kneeling to a greater power just seems very un-Kaldar to me.
>>I think if you examine what was said about the 13, for those Kaldar who choose to follow them as opposed to the 10, there is a lot of opportunity for self-reliance and proving of strength through trials.
You mean the new, Kaldaran 13? Yes, I did like how you specifically made Hodierna a tester, and gods like Eluned could be seen as sources of trials too. :)
By the way, I also forgot to mention. I wanted to thank you for embedding value judgments into the worship of some gods. There seems to be this implicit assumption among the "regular" 13 that anyone can worship any god without judgment. It always irked me that (it seemed) people could worship the god of stealing children or murderers and nobody would care. I'm glad you made it explicitly a "bad thing" (TM) to worship some of these gods.
-- Player of Eyuve
DGUTHRIE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 04:54 AM CDT
>>I think it's mandatory here that I drop a teaser here that people who like this might want to make sure they have a ticket for HE11.<<
Oh well. Guess that rules me out then.
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
Oh well. Guess that rules me out then.
________________________________________________________________________________
We've decided that instead of spells Paladins will be a new arm of the Bard guild utilizing interpretive dance moves.
~GM Zeyurn
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 05:23 AM CDT
>>Oh well. Guess that rules me out then.
Not really. If you're just interested in the items, you can have someone pick them up for you.
*******
Malkien
Not really. If you're just interested in the items, you can have someone pick them up for you.
*******
Malkien
SAUVA
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 06:02 AM CDT
>I've got a lot more coming
Awesome. And as other have said, board posts work for me. Hanryu's always been a 13 worshiper, so the bits about Eluned and Everild are super useful for me.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
Awesome. And as other have said, board posts work for me. Hanryu's always been a 13 worshiper, so the bits about Eluned and Everild are super useful for me.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning
DUNTS2
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 04:18 PM CDT
>>By the way, I also forgot to mention. I wanted to thank you for embedding value judgments into the worship of some gods. There seems to be this implicit assumption among the "regular" 13 that anyone can worship any god without judgment. It always irked me that (it seemed) people could worship the god of stealing children or murderers and nobody would care. I'm glad you made it explicitly a "bad thing" (TM) to worship some of these gods.
- Eyuve
I certainly agree with this, and thank you for saying it to remind me. What reminded me of this was the way that those Immortals such as Everild and Chadatru that embody honor and physical prowess are seen by the Kaldar through a generally positive lens, while Immortals such as Meraud and Damaris, who represent use of magic and trickery (as opposed to more direct means of force) have taken on a darker more dangerous hue. This really seems to reflect the nature of the Kaldar as has been established previously in the lore.
-Broichan Leshyahen
> hum tuneless
You hum a tuneless tune.
- Eyuve
I certainly agree with this, and thank you for saying it to remind me. What reminded me of this was the way that those Immortals such as Everild and Chadatru that embody honor and physical prowess are seen by the Kaldar through a generally positive lens, while Immortals such as Meraud and Damaris, who represent use of magic and trickery (as opposed to more direct means of force) have taken on a darker more dangerous hue. This really seems to reflect the nature of the Kaldar as has been established previously in the lore.
-Broichan Leshyahen
> hum tuneless
You hum a tuneless tune.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 04:34 PM CDT
Very nice read. (Coming from a non-Kaldar who has no intention of creating a Kaldar)
A different perspectives such as this is definitely tasty food for thought.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
A different perspectives such as this is definitely tasty food for thought.
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
RIDDLYN069
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 04:59 PM CDT
I as a long time Kaldar pc appreciate this very much. And now have a second god to worship. Damaris in private and Hav'roth for everyone to see.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/19/2011 06:09 PM CDT
>>There seems to be this implicit assumption among the "regular" 13 that anyone can worship any god without judgment. It always irked me that (it seemed) people could worship the god of stealing children or murderers and nobody would care. I'm glad you made it explicitly a "bad thing" (TM) to worship some of these gods.
We've tried to shy away from that in recent years to limited success, mainly because... well, worshiping a dark god is Metal As Hell.
In terms of Immortal orthodoxy, the Temple is focused primarily on veneration of the prime and positive aspects. The dark aspects are primarily understood to be figures to appease rather than venerate. The people who actively venerate them are considered by the silent majority to be creepy and misanthropic.
However, in terms of the culture of adventurers? "Creepy and misanthropic" describes quite a few of those.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
We've tried to shy away from that in recent years to limited success, mainly because... well, worshiping a dark god is Metal As Hell.
In terms of Immortal orthodoxy, the Temple is focused primarily on veneration of the prime and positive aspects. The dark aspects are primarily understood to be figures to appease rather than venerate. The people who actively venerate them are considered by the silent majority to be creepy and misanthropic.
However, in terms of the culture of adventurers? "Creepy and misanthropic" describes quite a few of those.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 03:25 AM CDT
>>We've tried to shy away from that in recent years to limited success, mainly because... well, worshiping a dark god is Metal As Hell.
Agreed. I don't think it shouldn't be allowed just... I wish it weren't so openly accepted.
>>The dark aspects are primarily understood to be figures to appease rather than venerate. The people who actively venerate them are considered by the silent majority to be creepy and misanthropic.
I'm glad this is the case. I just wish it were a little more noticeable among the PC population (and in the books would be nice too).
-- Player of Eyuve
Agreed. I don't think it shouldn't be allowed just... I wish it weren't so openly accepted.
>>The dark aspects are primarily understood to be figures to appease rather than venerate. The people who actively venerate them are considered by the silent majority to be creepy and misanthropic.
I'm glad this is the case. I just wish it were a little more noticeable among the PC population (and in the books would be nice too).
-- Player of Eyuve
LUNARIMP
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 08:53 AM CDT
Amazing read and perfect timing as I just rerolled my cleric to a Kaldar a few weeks ago. This certainly has got me thinking about it a bit more.
One question though, how does all this relate to Gnomes? Gnomes converted from their various belief systems to the Gorbesh pantheon and now live in the lands of the Thirteen like the Kaldar. Having their culture be so intertwined with the Gorbesh/Kaldar through the years, would their views on the Thirteen be more similar to the Kaldaran view or the Kermorian view?
One question though, how does all this relate to Gnomes? Gnomes converted from their various belief systems to the Gorbesh pantheon and now live in the lands of the Thirteen like the Kaldar. Having their culture be so intertwined with the Gorbesh/Kaldar through the years, would their views on the Thirteen be more similar to the Kaldaran view or the Kermorian view?
LEEJ82
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 10:09 AM CDT
<<However, in terms of the culture of adventurers? "Creepy and misanthropic" describes quite a few of those.
Hey now, if worshiping the god of sweet bass lines makes me evil, sign me up.
Hey now, if worshiping the god of sweet bass lines makes me evil, sign me up.
MORDAKIA1
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 12:34 PM CDT
>"Creepy and misanthropic" describes quite a few of those.
Hooray for narcissism!
-Player of Krahas
Hooray for narcissism!
-Player of Krahas
DR-RAESH
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 08:16 PM CDT
>>One question though, how does all this relate to Gnomes? Gnomes converted from their various belief systems to the Gorbesh pantheon and now live in the lands of the Thirteen like the Kaldar. Having their culture be so intertwined with the Gorbesh/Kaldar through the years, would their views on the Thirteen be more similar to the Kaldaran view or the Kermorian view?
You'd really have to go to the Gnome Champion (Who I believe is still Dartenian) for a solid answer.
While this lore was done with the Kaldar in mind, the Gnomes would have certainly been exposed to it - though I don't know how fast they would have been to adopt it. My gut says somewhat less likely, and that since the migration you'd be more likely to find Gnomes that have picked up worship of the Thirteen in the traditional sense.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
You'd really have to go to the Gnome Champion (Who I believe is still Dartenian) for a solid answer.
While this lore was done with the Kaldar in mind, the Gnomes would have certainly been exposed to it - though I don't know how fast they would have been to adopt it. My gut says somewhat less likely, and that since the migration you'd be more likely to find Gnomes that have picked up worship of the Thirteen in the traditional sense.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
IRONBONE
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 11:14 PM CDT
"Meraud - The god of magic, passion and unrestrained destruction. Much as he is the source of volatility within magic, he is the also the source of love, desire, and adultery. While considered a fearless warrior he is known for his unpredictable rages in which he will lash out at friend and foe alike with storm and lightning. His symbol is a forked bolt of lightning."
I have been playing a Kaldaran Warrior Mage, for what now seems an eternity. Have only gotten favor from Meraud. It seems now I have been doing it right all along! Thanks so much Raesh!
~Wyns
I have been playing a Kaldaran Warrior Mage, for what now seems an eternity. Have only gotten favor from Meraud. It seems now I have been doing it right all along! Thanks so much Raesh!
~Wyns
NJP
Re: Kaldar and the Thirteen
10/20/2011 11:55 PM CDT
>>The dark aspects are primarily understood to be figures to appease rather than venerate. The people who actively venerate them are considered by the silent majority to be creepy and misanthropic.
That's one of my favorite parts. My character is often mistakenly thought of as venerating when he's just practicing his form of appeasement. Good times.
>>I don't think it shouldn't be allowed just... I wish it weren't so openly accepted.
It's not always so openly accepted, it sort of depends on how you approach it. For some of us it means a lot of fighting, deportations, attempted (and successful) assassinations, and provincial banishment. Actions have consequences, and it's absolutely worth it to be Metal As Hell.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
That's one of my favorite parts. My character is often mistakenly thought of as venerating when he's just practicing his form of appeasement. Good times.
>>I don't think it shouldn't be allowed just... I wish it weren't so openly accepted.
It's not always so openly accepted, it sort of depends on how you approach it. For some of us it means a lot of fighting, deportations, attempted (and successful) assassinations, and provincial banishment. Actions have consequences, and it's absolutely worth it to be Metal As Hell.
Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus
