Three changes will be happening in the near future to how Elanthians of all races age. Two of these are set in stone and this should be regarded as merely an informative heads up on those issues. The final issue I am leaving open to discussion.

ALL DISCUSSION SHOULD TAKE PLACE IN THE GENERAL DISCUSSIONS - RACES FOLDER OF THE RACES CATEGORY.

Issue #1: Longevity for All

Due to a modern proliferation in Empathic (...and Necromantic...) healing, people are living longer, healthier lives. While there is an absolute limit to how long Life magic can prolong a being due to the metaphysical forces involved -- the first axiom of Life magic is "Life cannot defeat life" -- the Empath Guild's modern affect on longevity can be seen as nearly miraculous to the shorter-lived species.

The life expectancy of all characters which receive regular magical healing is expanded by a flat +100 years.

Issue #2: Age Messaging

The code that controls what age you will appear to be is going to be rewritten. Mostly this is a backend issue, with an aim toward making it more human-readable and customizable for future generations. However, there is also an element of change: some races in-game have messaging ranges that are in no way tied with the website information or IC lore. For example, Gnomes in-game have a 1,000 year long lifespan while the website and our fiction puts them at living two or three centuries.

There absolutely will be some adjustments here, and in particular Dwarves, Elves, and especially Gnomes may suddenly appear older. A few other tweaks may be noticed but by default will be minor.

Issue #3: The Evil Marriage of Issue #1 and Issue #2

Polite but vigorous debate has been raised about how to handle the longevity change in the in-game messaging, and I wish to hear your opinions about it. For the sake of argument, first assume you must choose between two options:

A) There is no messaging changes except what Issue #2 mandates to bring races in-sync with current lore. The extra century Empathy grants the upper crust is tacked on to the end, as archaic people that just don't freakin' die.

B) The extra century is integrated into the races' visible life cycle, so that especially the shorter lived races appear younger for much, much longer, and finally reach Archaic messaging at the end of the enhanced life.

There are, of course, secret ninja options and toggles and tying it into literal Empathic powers and whatnot we can also explore, but for the sake of gauging opinion I'd like to keep it at the simple, binary level. If you have a particularly inventive idea of how we can have our cake and eat it too, though, I am open to suggestions.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

Is there a possibility of having both options with the ability for the player to toggle (once) whether the character a) appears older and just doesn't die or b) appears younger?

I do not care especially one way or the other. Sensible arguments can be made for both sides. Either the life magic can be keeping the whole body healthy, or the age can still be seen but "something" inside keeps ticking healthily.

>>My response is: What does/will the lore say?

At the risk of being overly cynical, the lore will say whatever it needs to say.

As a personal opinion, I think slowing down the life cycle would be more coherent with established stuff, but I can make either work.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>Considering the qualification is that you receive a a large amount of empathic healing over time, I'd have to agree.

Yeah. In Teh Lorez terms, this extension doesn't apply to a dirt farmer who toils away for 50 years and then dies in an unmarked grave, only the upper crust and the adventurers that frequently receive magical healing.

Though as a matter of simplicity I'd rather just assume a priori that includes all adventurers and not make a behemoth that actually tacks on senescence based on how often an Empath touches you.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>Personally, I'd go with A. Although I'm not sure I understand the full implications of this change. Right now, I'm a 449 year old Gnome. I imagine I'll appear ancient either way.

A 449 year Gnome is going to be at the last age category either way.

There's no actual gameplay implication to any of this, it's a matter of messaging and aesthetics. For the short lived races (Human etc. all), slowing down the lifespan's implication would be that some people would suddenly regress a few age groups. The implication of not slowing down the lifecycle is eventually we'd have a lot of Gandalfs running around fit and vigorous.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>While you are sticking your nose into the code, please make it so someone can see what their own age looks like. You cannot look at yourself and see the "young", "mature" as it is now, you have to have someone else look at you and tell you what they see, thats kind of silly.

Yup, already planned.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

Ugh but I just aged into Venerable. That took me ten years even with a high starting age.

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"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

<< Ugh but I just aged into Venerable. That took me ten years even with a high starting age. >>

I think this will be a more common complaint if the option to mix the extra 100 years into the life cycle messaging. While most players I have talked to about the topic actually want to appear younger and get shifted when they hit the high ends, there will still be plenty who enjoy seeing thier old characters actually look old and would be highly annoyed to lose it.

Just leave the current ranges as is, rather then wake up one day and everyone suddenly got much younger looking. Its not as if the messaging says "old and decrepit" and wouldnt make IC sense for them to still be swinging a sword. I see no reason that some cannot attain venerable and appear so (or whatever is higher if there is more stages) at "normal" life span ages, assuming no shifts, and still live to be 100 extra years.

I'd rather loose an age category temporarily than what may be functionally forever if I'll have retired the character long before then.

Anyway, have-and-eat-cake suggestion:
Two sets of age categories for regular aging and 'aging gracefully;' secret ninja third option 'of indeterminate age.'

If this could not involve Shift I would be so happy but would understand that bed is kind of made.

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"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

>>DR-ARMIFER: B) The extra century is integrated into the races' visible life cycle, so that especially the shorter lived races appear younger for much, much longer, and finally reach Archaic messaging at the end of the enhanced life.

I prefer this approach. If healing significantly increases a character's life-span, one would expect that the deterioration associated with age would manifest at a slower rate.

Is it possible for PCs to die of old age, or do their clocks keep ticking even when they reach their (theoretical) maximum ages?

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Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!

I also would like some kind of toggle -- AGE FAST vs. AGE SLOW or whatever.

I see no reason why some bodies can't just naturally take to the magical healing a bit better, while others don't. Genetic differences could play a role, as could, say, exposure to the elements. Or maybe you just play your character as not receiving that much magical healing.

Thus the lore is clear and the people who want to can go whichever way. I know some want to get up in range, while others want to be perpetually young.

Finally... also please consider allowing everyone to choose their age when rolling a character. I know this is a Premium benefit now, but it does seem a little harsh to force people to wait 10 years/pay out loads of plats to play their character at the age they wanted...

-- Player of Niieth

>>Is it possible for PCs to die of old age, or do their clocks keep ticking even when they reach their (theoretical) maximum ages?

Our policy on this remains the same. ICly, people die of old age. But as a game consideration, we are never going to permanently kill off your character because his clock ran out.

The major intention behind increasing longevity for all characters is to give us more years -- twenty-five more years, to be precise -- until this becomes a "serious problem" (insofar as it ever could be a serious problem).

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

I think the best option is B.

Alternatively to basing it solely off empathic/necromantic healing, you could tie it into the regeneration of the physical form from favors...

Getting a new body over and over keeps all the cruft from accumulating as fast. Also makes a nice additional benefit from favors / whatever it is that powers necromancers.

-pete

Under the new system, how would my character appear? Right now, it's mature.

Name: Muse Terra Talmuron, Lore Keeper of Velaka Race: Elf Guild: Bard
Gender: Female Age: 93 Circle: XXX
You were born on the 14th day of the 4th month of Shorka the Cobra in the year of the Amber Phoenix, 304 years after the victory of Lanival the Redeemer.



- Terra

I've never really paid much attention to the age indicators (mostly because I don't really know what range each is supposed to indicate.) Issus is currently 101 and I have no idea how he would appear to others. That being said, I think I'll notice a lot more once I can tell my own characters ages. I'm for the option with minimal shifting in age descriptions.

Out of curiosity, though, would it be possible to add more potential appearances in to each race, scaled to their maximum age? That way someone who's losing Venerable wouldn't necessarily convert all the way to Mature (again, IDK what the breakdown is now exactly) and would instead revert to a newly added age between those two. If nothing else, it could give whoever came up with the new EXP level phrases some more fun digging through a thesaurus.


-=Issus=-

Based on the Plat CG the Dwarven (and Elven) ages broke down to:

Very Young - up to 39
Young - 40-49
Adult - 50 to 85 +/-
Middle-aged - 85+/- to 139 +/-
Mature - 140+/- to 499
Old - 500-599

100 was not considered a baby. However, the mature range was rather large when compared to the other categories. And how you looked to the shorter lived races didn't match up with those ranges.

Prime has always been a different matter when it comes to age.

Asbhuan

Magdar is 93 right now. I have been trying to get his age shifted to 350ish. Not possible it seems.

That range table, I can see it really, but I still think of Magdar as Mature and would like my age to reflect such.


______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss

>I would probably be in favor of allowing everyone to rechoose their age one time once the new system is in place (similar to what they did in Gemstone about ten years ago). Then just fix the character manager to generate non-premium in the moderately young range and let premium choose a much wider range than currently possible.

I'm a fan of this, but I'm sure a lot of people would be upset at others not "earning their ages".

As far as the added lifespan goes, it makes sense to make people age more slowly.

-Dihm

>I'm a fan of this, but I'm sure a lot of people would be upset at others not "earning their ages".

While I agree with you, this really is a silly argument. A character's age shouldn't be an indication of how long the player has been playing Dragonrealms. To view it as such is to miss the point of its purpose as a roleplaying device.

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>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

>>A character's age shouldn't be an indication of how long the player has been playing Dragonrealms. To view it as such is to miss the point of its purpose as a roleplaying device.<<

Several RPGs handle aging by making you start young and age throughout your character's career. IMO it makes sense for DR to operate this way as well. Our characters are clearly at the beginning of their careers when they come out of the CM.




- Mazrian

The Flying Company

The Public Stat Data Project
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkqoUyrmvlKNdGlpeHZacEdldi1Ob2h3M1I5TXpCZVE&hl=en