Hello have a question to ask, Perhaps it has been already pondered but what would happen to a Lich if it had a holy favor? Has anyone asked the cleric guild leaders?
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
ELFVERHAN
LEGERES
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
03/28/2009 08:11 AM CDT
it's been answered in the necro folder, eventually the gods take away favors
but it was also mentioned that necros might have their own brand of favors not from the gods
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but it was also mentioned that necros might have their own brand of favors not from the gods
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WYATTB2
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/03/2009 11:22 AM CDT
<<Hello have a question to ask, Perhaps it has been already pondered but what would happen to a Lich if it had a holy favor? Has anyone asked the cleric guild leaders?>>
This is kind of like asking if a zombie was alive would it still be a zombie. My understanding of it is that if you have a lich with favors from the gods then you are not a lich but something diffrent.
This is kind of like asking if a zombie was alive would it still be a zombie. My understanding of it is that if you have a lich with favors from the gods then you are not a lich but something diffrent.
BONECHEWER
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/03/2009 01:59 PM CDT
Necros can only have one type of favor. Once you made the switch all other favors become irrelevant if not gone.
However, if yuou mean to ask what happens if a paladin tries to give his own favor to a necro that can no longer recieve normal favors via that spell, then I would be curious to find out, too.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
However, if yuou mean to ask what happens if a paladin tries to give his own favor to a necro that can no longer recieve normal favors via that spell, then I would be curious to find out, too.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
ELFVERHAN
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/03/2009 04:17 PM CDT
However, if yuou mean to ask what happens if a paladin tries to give his own favor to a necro that can no longer recieve normal favors via that spell, then I would be curious to find out, too.
Yes that is what I mean if a favor of Chadatru was gifted what would happen?
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
Yes that is what I mean if a favor of Chadatru was gifted what would happen?
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
BLUR
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/03/2009 07:28 PM CDT
I would hope that the effects of such a casting of holy magic would require TM ranks to hit, and some sort of contest to be fatal.
Anefubi Vahabaha Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
Anefubi Vahabaha Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
LEGERES
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 01:45 AM CDT
hmm never thought of that.. either a soul hit for the paladin for trying, or some part of the necro that wasn't destroyed now is, maybe both
example messaging) the dead body seems to have a violent reaction to the favor twisting away from it, shredding a bit.
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example messaging) the dead body seems to have a violent reaction to the favor twisting away from it, shredding a bit.
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KARKWUSS
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 08:47 AM CDT
We don't need another way to harm our soul by trying to help/protect another.
SAUVA
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 09:00 AM CDT
From some of the talk at SimuCon last year, favors as we know it now are changing. I wouldn't at all be surprised if "walking" as we know it goes away also. Death would result in a totally different set of penalties than we know know and that will fix up all these "necros and liches with favors questions".
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
ELFVERHAN
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 09:58 AM CDT
I guess I'm failing baddly at getting the thought across, I meant as a way to harm the errr living/dead lich.By having a favor would it not disturb its current alignment as far as a departing-resurrecting? I mean it is on the line of I don't need help from the gods hense I don't believe in them where they draw thier power from.
B
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
B
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
SLOANJ11
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 11:56 AM CDT
>From some of the talk at SimuCon last year, favors as we know it now are changing. I wouldn't at all be surprised if "walking" as we know it goes away also. Death would result in a totally different set of penalties than we know know and that will fix up all these "necros and liches with favors questions".
That and the fact that the spell in question is getting axed if they ever finish the Paladin spell re-write.
That and the fact that the spell in question is getting axed if they ever finish the Paladin spell re-write.
WYATTB2
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/04/2009 02:02 PM CDT
<<I guess I'm failing baddly at getting the thought across, I meant as a way to harm the errr living/dead lich.By having a favor would it not disturb its current alignment as far as a departing-resurrecting? I mean it is on the line of I don't need help from the gods hense I don't believe in them where they draw thier power from.>>
I guess I still don't get the question?
I guess I still don't get the question?
BLUR
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 02:24 AM CDT
Prep AG 12
target necro
harn 12
cast (no silly soul hit, thank you .. its a necro after all)
Necro's afternoon is somehow disrupted by way of some appropriate design, i.e. death, disfigurement, general loss of health, etc..
That's what I'm getting out of it. Am I missing it?
Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
target necro
harn 12
cast (no silly soul hit, thank you .. its a necro after all)
Necro's afternoon is somehow disrupted by way of some appropriate design, i.e. death, disfigurement, general loss of health, etc..
That's what I'm getting out of it. Am I missing it?
Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
ELFVERHAN
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 08:44 AM CDT
Correct, or perhaps a lost of magical abilites. Even perhaps change to mortal. if it was tied to the clerical spell that can kill necromancers.requiring them to do thier self raise or (favor) need.
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
A s'sugi malchata attempts to evade, mis-stepping and blundering into the blow. The shield lands an awesome strike that explodes the chest in a shower of blood and splintered ribs.
A s'sugi malchata crumbles to the ground.
KARKWUSS
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 09:29 AM CDT
It is my understanding that magic is the manipulation of the flow. And very little magic has actual direct divine interaction.
We may invoke a Gods name or say a prayer with a God in mind... But the Gods themselves often don't act personally in the invocation of said unleashing of magic... With this ideal in mind, much of the "What Will the Gods think?" stuff goes away and you get to the pure science of magic. The Gods do watch tho... they are always watching, and they may even choose to influence a spell in a rare case and imbue it with stronger will... punish the caster for invoking the flows in the way they did... or even thwart the spell altogether.
This is how I view how Gods and magic work... you may have your own idea
I think a favor is like a lifejacket. If you're in the ocean of the dead-and-beyond, and have a few of em tied together... it'll be easier to spot you floating around and pull you out. If you have but one... yer gonna bearly be above water... and may even drown still. A Necromancer has cement shoes on in the form of his damnation in the eyes of the Gods and gets no lifejacket... but they will have their own ways of dealing with the deep end of the pool.
The spell AG was crafted by a great Paladin of the past who mastered greater manipulations of the flow and found a way to pass on a favor to another by using the flow as a tool to transfer the favor. Trying to use "Favor grenades" sounds unwise at the least and God-wrath invoking.
I do feel Paladins are lacking in perceptive abilities beyond the realm of "stealth" though... and we should be able to do more of the RECALLS like RECALL HOLIDAY because we should be able to tell when the flow is trending towards stronger or weaker levels of holy magic. (holy magic in areas is based in part on what time of the year it is and what holidays are in the year)
We should also have some sort of Power Perception based ability to see the true nature of a person...
Reportedly, Empaths and Clerics will have ways of telling if someone is a Necromancer... Why not Paladins? Who more deserving of an ability that Informs of a persons "Divine outrage" then the rightous Paladin? Who more apt to act against someone's "Social Outrage" then a Chivalrous(sp) Knight of the Realm?
All characters should have should have "divine outrage" and "social outrage" meters... You don't have to be a Necromancer to make a God mad at you... and you deffinetly don't need to be a Necromancer to have the NPC Townsfolk mad at you... It's just too big a project idea to do this... and so it doesn't happen... Thus, This guild gets this "meter" of something... and that guild gets that sort of "meter" and when we do have situations come up that involve guild interaction... we have "patches" and situation based "fixes" that allow for it. Necromancy should be the last option of a person who has ticked off the Gods and fellow (npc/pc) people of the world... and chooses instead, to align themselves only with their desires for whatever it is they seek... be it power... illicit knowledge... or some other "shunned" ideal.
We may invoke a Gods name or say a prayer with a God in mind... But the Gods themselves often don't act personally in the invocation of said unleashing of magic... With this ideal in mind, much of the "What Will the Gods think?" stuff goes away and you get to the pure science of magic. The Gods do watch tho... they are always watching, and they may even choose to influence a spell in a rare case and imbue it with stronger will... punish the caster for invoking the flows in the way they did... or even thwart the spell altogether.
This is how I view how Gods and magic work... you may have your own idea
I think a favor is like a lifejacket. If you're in the ocean of the dead-and-beyond, and have a few of em tied together... it'll be easier to spot you floating around and pull you out. If you have but one... yer gonna bearly be above water... and may even drown still. A Necromancer has cement shoes on in the form of his damnation in the eyes of the Gods and gets no lifejacket... but they will have their own ways of dealing with the deep end of the pool.
The spell AG was crafted by a great Paladin of the past who mastered greater manipulations of the flow and found a way to pass on a favor to another by using the flow as a tool to transfer the favor. Trying to use "Favor grenades" sounds unwise at the least and God-wrath invoking.
I do feel Paladins are lacking in perceptive abilities beyond the realm of "stealth" though... and we should be able to do more of the RECALLS like RECALL HOLIDAY because we should be able to tell when the flow is trending towards stronger or weaker levels of holy magic. (holy magic in areas is based in part on what time of the year it is and what holidays are in the year)
We should also have some sort of Power Perception based ability to see the true nature of a person...
Reportedly, Empaths and Clerics will have ways of telling if someone is a Necromancer... Why not Paladins? Who more deserving of an ability that Informs of a persons "Divine outrage" then the rightous Paladin? Who more apt to act against someone's "Social Outrage" then a Chivalrous(sp) Knight of the Realm?
All characters should have should have "divine outrage" and "social outrage" meters... You don't have to be a Necromancer to make a God mad at you... and you deffinetly don't need to be a Necromancer to have the NPC Townsfolk mad at you... It's just too big a project idea to do this... and so it doesn't happen... Thus, This guild gets this "meter" of something... and that guild gets that sort of "meter" and when we do have situations come up that involve guild interaction... we have "patches" and situation based "fixes" that allow for it. Necromancy should be the last option of a person who has ticked off the Gods and fellow (npc/pc) people of the world... and chooses instead, to align themselves only with their desires for whatever it is they seek... be it power... illicit knowledge... or some other "shunned" ideal.
DR-ZEYURN
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 11:40 AM CDT
Trying to 'grant' a favor to a forsaken Necromancer is much more likely to result in full soul defilement of the using Paladin than anything else.
A Necromancer is not going to be harmed by warm fluffy feelings of protection. Some of them (non-Forsaken) can even have favors from the gods.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, no guild will ever be getting 'anti-Necromancer' abilities. The most you will get is that abilities that specifically affect the cursed/undead may work on a Necromancer at a certain point.
-Z
A Necromancer is not going to be harmed by warm fluffy feelings of protection. Some of them (non-Forsaken) can even have favors from the gods.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, no guild will ever be getting 'anti-Necromancer' abilities. The most you will get is that abilities that specifically affect the cursed/undead may work on a Necromancer at a certain point.
-Z
LEGERES
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 12:29 PM CDT
yay i was half right
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If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
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LOFTONM1
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 01:56 PM CDT
>>hmm never thought of that.. either a soul hit for the paladin for trying, or some part of the necro that wasn't destroyed now is, maybe both
Aren't the gods supposedly going to take an active interest in necros of a certain level? Like, randomly chop them down, interfere with their spells, interfere with non-necro spells targetted to them? One would think that against a lich a beneficial spell simply wouldn't work versus doing something bad to the necro and you'd just take the negative.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
Aren't the gods supposedly going to take an active interest in necros of a certain level? Like, randomly chop them down, interfere with their spells, interfere with non-necro spells targetted to them? One would think that against a lich a beneficial spell simply wouldn't work versus doing something bad to the necro and you'd just take the negative.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
BONECHEWER
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/05/2009 02:44 PM CDT
>Who more apt to act against someone's "Social Outrage" then a Chivalrous(sp) Knight of the Realm?
>All characters should have should have "divine outrage" and "social outrage" meters...
That's just the thing: Absolutely nothing pisses the gods off universally besides two specific types of Necromancy: Transcendence and Animation.
Any other activity while possibly frowned upon by one god is promoted by another. Stealing and deciet is promoted by Botolf, manipulation by Kereperchuch(sp?), promiscuity by Idon, and so on.
As for social outrage, the way i understand it is that for the most part, there isn't a super mechanically-enforced meter, maybe just for pure society-at-large recognition for how many times you've been on the wanted boards for necromancy, or something to that effect.
Paladins are absolutely the one to act agaisnt someone's social outrage, but you have to actually find social reason (word of mouth) to actually act against htat person, even if the gods may not care or be even have granted favors to that person (redeemed, falsely accused necros, etc.).
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
>All characters should have should have "divine outrage" and "social outrage" meters...
That's just the thing: Absolutely nothing pisses the gods off universally besides two specific types of Necromancy: Transcendence and Animation.
Any other activity while possibly frowned upon by one god is promoted by another. Stealing and deciet is promoted by Botolf, manipulation by Kereperchuch(sp?), promiscuity by Idon, and so on.
As for social outrage, the way i understand it is that for the most part, there isn't a super mechanically-enforced meter, maybe just for pure society-at-large recognition for how many times you've been on the wanted boards for necromancy, or something to that effect.
Paladins are absolutely the one to act agaisnt someone's social outrage, but you have to actually find social reason (word of mouth) to actually act against htat person, even if the gods may not care or be even have granted favors to that person (redeemed, falsely accused necros, etc.).
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 11:12 AM CDT
>>Reportedly, Empaths and Clerics will have ways of telling if someone is a Necromancer... Why not Paladins?
Empaths I would say are #1 because many Necromancer abilities represent a corruption of either life mana or the Empathy link.
Clerics I would say are #2 because they are the truest "instruments of the Gods' will" in Dragonrealms. Paladins are right there also, but Clerics are capable of communes, which represent direct divine intervention, they are directly responsible for continuing the practices of deity worship, etc. Also, they already have several abilities designed to supplement or defend against Necromancy (PFE, Harm Evil, etc.)
-Joshua, player of Malkien
Empaths I would say are #1 because many Necromancer abilities represent a corruption of either life mana or the Empathy link.
Clerics I would say are #2 because they are the truest "instruments of the Gods' will" in Dragonrealms. Paladins are right there also, but Clerics are capable of communes, which represent direct divine intervention, they are directly responsible for continuing the practices of deity worship, etc. Also, they already have several abilities designed to supplement or defend against Necromancy (PFE, Harm Evil, etc.)
-Joshua, player of Malkien
LEGERES
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 11:19 AM CDT
toss moon mages on that list becasue they can percieve what kinds of magic are clinging to you
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If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
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DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 11:22 AM CDT
Barbarians should be able to detect Necromancers because they're really pissed off at them!
-Joshua, player of Malkien
-Joshua, player of Malkien
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 11:52 AM CDT
I'm stepping in this conversation a bit late, but to echo the GM post, some necromancers do have normal favors. Xera (the necro guy who used to be down in shard) said himself that he had regular favors.
-Landros
-Landros
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 12:11 PM CDT
>>I'm stepping in this conversation a bit late, but to echo the GM post, some necromancers do have normal favors.
This would be redeemed Necromancers, which aren't "real" Necromancers. Though you are right that it will be technically possible to be a member of the Necro guild and have real favors.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
This would be redeemed Necromancers, which aren't "real" Necromancers. Though you are right that it will be technically possible to be a member of the Necro guild and have real favors.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
CHRISTIANSONK3
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 12:25 PM CDT
Well if Xerasyth isn't a 'real' necromancer then i'm very interested to see what a 'real' one looks like.
-Landros
-Landros
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 02:22 PM CDT
>>Well if Xerasyth isn't a 'real' necromancer then i'm very interested to see what a 'real' one looks like.
Lyras.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
Lyras.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
SORTIK
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 02:24 PM CDT
>>I'm stepping in this conversation a bit late, but to echo the GM post, some necromancers do have normal favors. Xera (the necro guy who used to be down in shard) said himself that he had regular favors.
Pretty sure he specifically said that he does not have favors from any of the regular gods, but does have something similar to favors. If no one can confirm, I will consider searching the autologs.
Pretty sure he specifically said that he does not have favors from any of the regular gods, but does have something similar to favors. If no one can confirm, I will consider searching the autologs.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 02:29 PM CDT
Well, this tangent is sort of immaterial, IMO.
Armifer has already stated explicitly in the Necromancer folders that Necromancer favors and normal favors will be mutually exclusive: normal Necros will have Necro favors, and redeemed Necros will have normal favors. The minute you get one of one type, all the favors of the other type disappear.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
Armifer has already stated explicitly in the Necromancer folders that Necromancer favors and normal favors will be mutually exclusive: normal Necros will have Necro favors, and redeemed Necros will have normal favors. The minute you get one of one type, all the favors of the other type disappear.
-Joshua, player of Malkien
BONECHEWER
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/06/2009 08:07 PM CDT
>Xera (the necro guy who used to be down in shard) said himself that he had regular favors.
This is false. Xerasyth has something SIMLIAR to favors.
Hssarith is the Adan'f with normal favors, but he is not a necro.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
This is false. Xerasyth has something SIMLIAR to favors.
Hssarith is the Adan'f with normal favors, but he is not a necro.
"When I grow up, I want to be a soulless monster trapped in a suit of enchanted armor and compelled into violent service for a commercial institution through torturous psychic conditioning." -- Armifer
BLUR
Re: what would happen if a Lich had a favor from the gods?
04/07/2009 10:38 AM CDT
Back to the original question, I think that the real issue is that the Lich is undead.
Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
Humm Breaux
Prydaen Refugee Freedom Fighter
