I am curious as to what I will have to go thru to begin to circle again. I left about 2 years ago in my early 50s and only needed prime weapon, parry, and lore to circle. I assume I will have to catch up on prime armor some because I think that increased to 5 ranks per instead of 4. How was lore and survival changed? I am fairly well trained in many skills due to listening to Rock and Clynlyn among others telling me to train EVERYTHING! all the time. I no longer remember my actual ranks in everything, I am just lookin for some input and maybe some ballpark numbers, that or a site that breaks it all down by circle like we used to have.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Maliktoo
MALIKTO69
MNEMOSYNE
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
12/31/2003 11:33 AM CST
Smegul's site is all about calculators...unfortunately, the cleaning crew turned off his server right after he left for a month and he won't be back to turn it back on for a few weeks.
http://www.terkowitz.com/
I think Krinahd has also put up paladin requirement calculators on his site:
http://www.lucerella.com/krinahd/
I think lore and parry reqs went down, where armor, survival and weapon reqs went up. Hope that helps.
~Coine
"...someone will find offense in the smallest of words and the most innocent of sentences if it suits their purpose." --- GM Jzara
http://www.terkowitz.com/
I think Krinahd has also put up paladin requirement calculators on his site:
http://www.lucerella.com/krinahd/
I think lore and parry reqs went down, where armor, survival and weapon reqs went up. Hope that helps.
~Coine
"...someone will find offense in the smallest of words and the most innocent of sentences if it suits their purpose." --- GM Jzara
MALIKTO69
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
12/31/2003 11:43 AM CST
Thanks Coine! Many of those seem rather low to me, I guess I will see what Lady Snow has to say when I return unless Sir Darius decides to speak with me.
Maliktoo
Maliktoo
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 12:49 AM CDT
While I understand what you meaant by this post. I think another question in relation to that is, what significance has it really brought? Can anyone claim to have been in a situation in which they broke their armor, saw their secondary armor just happening to be laying nearby, picked it up and fought on successfully? How about dropping your weapon and saying "screw it" and grabbing your secondary out and going at it during the invasions? Uh..right.
So while they may be here to stay, the crap about making us better Paladins has yet to be proven until such time a situation is created in which having such skills is beneficial other than just adding some more numbers to attain.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
So while they may be here to stay, the crap about making us better Paladins has yet to be proven until such time a situation is created in which having such skills is beneficial other than just adding some more numbers to attain.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
LENNONJON
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 01:16 AM CDT
<<While I understand what you meaant by this post. I think another question in relation to that is, what significance has it really brought? Can anyone claim to have been in a situation in which they broke their armor, saw their secondary armor just happening to be laying nearby, picked it up and fought on successfully? How about dropping your weapon and saying "screw it" and grabbing your secondary out and going at it during the invasions? Uh..right.>>
Well...With shield as my primary armor and HP as my secondary with only 20 ranks seperating the two I can honestly say there have been times when I didn't want to risk losing/breaking my expensive jousting shield and as such have worn it and used only my HP. Likewise, with only 20 ranks seperating my primary weapon (HE) from my secondary weapon (2HE) there have also been cases where I swap from HE to 2HE because it hits harder. And there was actually one time when I ran out of blesses on my HE during an undead invasion and no one had an extra one to spare, so rather than searching for a cleric to bless my weapon I borrowed a claymore from someone and was still able to fight.
Now honestly this has nothing to do with new guild reqs, this is beacause this is how I have always trained. I do like the fact that I am versitile in my weapons (and its not only HE/2HE), for just such occasions as outlined above. Sure I'm probably rare in that sense, but so be it. And yes when I'm in a situation I am unsure of I reach for my HE and shield while wearing HP, but if it came down to it I won't not go help out in a situation because I don't have those with me.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
PS How's the arthritis? hehe
Well...With shield as my primary armor and HP as my secondary with only 20 ranks seperating the two I can honestly say there have been times when I didn't want to risk losing/breaking my expensive jousting shield and as such have worn it and used only my HP. Likewise, with only 20 ranks seperating my primary weapon (HE) from my secondary weapon (2HE) there have also been cases where I swap from HE to 2HE because it hits harder. And there was actually one time when I ran out of blesses on my HE during an undead invasion and no one had an extra one to spare, so rather than searching for a cleric to bless my weapon I borrowed a claymore from someone and was still able to fight.
Now honestly this has nothing to do with new guild reqs, this is beacause this is how I have always trained. I do like the fact that I am versitile in my weapons (and its not only HE/2HE), for just such occasions as outlined above. Sure I'm probably rare in that sense, but so be it. And yes when I'm in a situation I am unsure of I reach for my HE and shield while wearing HP, but if it came down to it I won't not go help out in a situation because I don't have those with me.
--Just a "clueless" Squire
PS How's the arthritis? hehe
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 01:25 AM CDT
::bops Lennon for the old jokes::
It's not the reqs themselves I have issue with so much as there needs to be a real risk involved with not training. You situations while cool, just aren't the norm by any means so it just ends up making the reqs seem more like another way to slow progress in the advancement of guild members as far as circles go rather than having an acutal purpose.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
It's not the reqs themselves I have issue with so much as there needs to be a real risk involved with not training. You situations while cool, just aren't the norm by any means so it just ends up making the reqs seem more like another way to slow progress in the advancement of guild members as far as circles go rather than having an acutal purpose.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
DANTASE
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 08:43 AM CDT
>You situations while cool, just aren't the norm by any means so it just ends up making the reqs seem more like another way to slow progress in the advancement of guild members as far as circles go rather than having an acutal purpose.
I disagree with this.
The new guild reqs have created a stronger Paladin guild as a whole. Take into consideration Paladins pre-newreqs and post-newreqs. With that in mind, you will see that as a whole, the Paladin guild is stronger and more versatile compared to before. That in itself is an accomplishment. Why? Because most paladins circle on minimum reqs. It is rare the paladins that will train anything above the reqs, just because of the nature of the guild training. We have lores and combats. That creates a weird set of circumstances where the Paladin must choose between training extra things or training what he requires for advance.
The new reqs didn't change me at all. I have always trained anything and everything I could, but I still believe the Paladin guild benefited as a whole from it.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
I disagree with this.
The new guild reqs have created a stronger Paladin guild as a whole. Take into consideration Paladins pre-newreqs and post-newreqs. With that in mind, you will see that as a whole, the Paladin guild is stronger and more versatile compared to before. That in itself is an accomplishment. Why? Because most paladins circle on minimum reqs. It is rare the paladins that will train anything above the reqs, just because of the nature of the guild training. We have lores and combats. That creates a weird set of circumstances where the Paladin must choose between training extra things or training what he requires for advance.
The new reqs didn't change me at all. I have always trained anything and everything I could, but I still believe the Paladin guild benefited as a whole from it.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
KOLIASA
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 08:46 AM CDT
<<<The new reqs didn't change me at all. I have always trained anything and everything I could, but I still believe the Paladin guild benefited as a whole from it.>>>
Agreed
Kolaisa
Stabbity, block, you go thud.
Use that beer sponge you call a brain!
Agreed
Kolaisa
Stabbity, block, you go thud.
Use that beer sponge you call a brain!
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 03:55 PM CDT
>I disagree with this.<
>The new guild reqs have created a stronger Paladin guild as a whole. Take into consideration Paladins pre-newreqs and post-newreqs. With that in mind, you will see that as a whole, the Paladin guild is stronger and more versatile compared to before. That in itself is an accomplishment. Why? Because most paladins circle on minimum reqs. It is rare the paladins that will train anything above the reqs, just because of the nature of the guild training. We have lores and combats. That creates a weird set of circumstances where the Paladin must choose between training extra things or training what he requires for advance.<
That's a wonderful statement if you can show me what facts you have that show that Paladins are more versatile compared to before. Paladins are still going to circle on minimum reqs the only difference is you raised the minimum and thats not an answer. The Paladin is still not forced to choose anything...hell never was. The fact of the matter is, from a situational standpoint there is relatively no sense it the change other than to raise the bar from a minimum ranks standpoint. There is still no validity to why a Paladin must train multiple armors or why a Paladin must know a second weapon.
Believe me I agree with Paladins understanding multiple weapons. (You'll never sell me on multiple armors other than shield because to say someone trains in multiple armors is a pretty stupid statement, it wasn't done in history and it shouldn't be made up here just to give an explanation for extra reqs. Yeah theres some weight and maneuvering differences but other than that....Once you've worn plate everything else should be a cake walk, and if you try talking about the differences, try wearing the two yourself and see what I'm talking about. I have, hell I've even jousted in both. Plate is a royal pain in the ass compared to other armor.) But back to weapons, there should be instances in which a Paladin should need to depend upon being able to fight with another weapon unfortunately due to mechanics those situations don't present themselves because we are able to put 10 broadswords in a backpack or sheath rather than only carry one weapon per container which would force a warrior to resort to his dagger or mace or what have you should he be disarmed, among other things.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
>The new guild reqs have created a stronger Paladin guild as a whole. Take into consideration Paladins pre-newreqs and post-newreqs. With that in mind, you will see that as a whole, the Paladin guild is stronger and more versatile compared to before. That in itself is an accomplishment. Why? Because most paladins circle on minimum reqs. It is rare the paladins that will train anything above the reqs, just because of the nature of the guild training. We have lores and combats. That creates a weird set of circumstances where the Paladin must choose between training extra things or training what he requires for advance.<
That's a wonderful statement if you can show me what facts you have that show that Paladins are more versatile compared to before. Paladins are still going to circle on minimum reqs the only difference is you raised the minimum and thats not an answer. The Paladin is still not forced to choose anything...hell never was. The fact of the matter is, from a situational standpoint there is relatively no sense it the change other than to raise the bar from a minimum ranks standpoint. There is still no validity to why a Paladin must train multiple armors or why a Paladin must know a second weapon.
Believe me I agree with Paladins understanding multiple weapons. (You'll never sell me on multiple armors other than shield because to say someone trains in multiple armors is a pretty stupid statement, it wasn't done in history and it shouldn't be made up here just to give an explanation for extra reqs. Yeah theres some weight and maneuvering differences but other than that....Once you've worn plate everything else should be a cake walk, and if you try talking about the differences, try wearing the two yourself and see what I'm talking about. I have, hell I've even jousted in both. Plate is a royal pain in the ass compared to other armor.) But back to weapons, there should be instances in which a Paladin should need to depend upon being able to fight with another weapon unfortunately due to mechanics those situations don't present themselves because we are able to put 10 broadswords in a backpack or sheath rather than only carry one weapon per container which would force a warrior to resort to his dagger or mace or what have you should he be disarmed, among other things.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 04:12 PM CDT
While I'm at it..let me take the time to say this as well.
Anyone who thinks that they were the "better Paladin" because they trained this or trained that is pretty damn narrow minded among other things that I won't mention. The fact is that the majority of people who were affected in some way or another (which is the majority by the way) were not so much people trying to reach min circle as they were roleplaying. I've always been deemed an Aesrian Blademaster of the Seord Mir clan, I know a great many Paladins who did not train shield because of similar circumstances and a very very small few people trained multiple armors because they all knew it was a pretty stupid idea from a common sense or realistic stand point until forging came about (and even then its still rediculous from a realism standpoint).
So that crap about making better Paladins is a pretty ignorant statement. If anything you've made more rounded Paladins from a knowlege of weapons/armor standpoint, but at the cost of what? Roleplay, specialization, etc.
Again before someone goes on their only small minded course of talking to me about how I'm just upset about additional reqs... Wrong!. Its not the reqs so much as the reasoning or practicality behind them or lack thereof.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Anyone who thinks that they were the "better Paladin" because they trained this or trained that is pretty damn narrow minded among other things that I won't mention. The fact is that the majority of people who were affected in some way or another (which is the majority by the way) were not so much people trying to reach min circle as they were roleplaying. I've always been deemed an Aesrian Blademaster of the Seord Mir clan, I know a great many Paladins who did not train shield because of similar circumstances and a very very small few people trained multiple armors because they all knew it was a pretty stupid idea from a common sense or realistic stand point until forging came about (and even then its still rediculous from a realism standpoint).
So that crap about making better Paladins is a pretty ignorant statement. If anything you've made more rounded Paladins from a knowlege of weapons/armor standpoint, but at the cost of what? Roleplay, specialization, etc.
Again before someone goes on their only small minded course of talking to me about how I'm just upset about additional reqs... Wrong!. Its not the reqs so much as the reasoning or practicality behind them or lack thereof.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
DANTASE
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 05:04 PM CDT
Heh, Hypocrisy doesn't belong with a Lord of whatever.
Can't speak about ignorant statements when half of your last post was such.
Now, I will try to make ya understand what I said.
>That's a wonderful statement if you can show me what facts you have that show that Paladins are more versatile compared to before. Paladins are still going to circle on minimum reqs the only difference is you raised the minimum and thats not an answer.
We had almost no survival reqs before past 10th circle, now we have them all the way through. That's versatily. Paladins before the change couldn't climb said ladder, now, a paladin of the same circle will. That my friend = versatily.
And while you talk about multiple armors and about having worn different armors... What did ya wear under the plate armor when ya jousted? So yeah, multiple armors are realistic, just not in the current shape. My guess is that Ssra is working on adding layered armors, by his last little teaser, but who knows.
Another point to make, everyone, not only paladins, should train multiple weapons. Why? certain critters are more succeptible to certain attacks. Go to Vikati and try hunting them with an edge. Then try with a blunt. You'll see the difference.
>>Anyone who thinks that they were the "better Paladin" because they trained this or trained that is pretty damn narrow minded among other things that I won't mention.
Show me where I said I was the "better Paladin" and I will eat my helm. Though I did say that basically a paladin with higher skill will be a better paladin overall. Able to get into places previous req paladins of the same circle couldn't. And ya can RP all you want, be Lord Blade Master of Ninja Skills and Armor Spikes, with Tiny Flower Category, the fact of the matter is, if ya got no skill to back anything up, you will be stuck up the creek in a lot of situations.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
Can't speak about ignorant statements when half of your last post was such.
Now, I will try to make ya understand what I said.
>That's a wonderful statement if you can show me what facts you have that show that Paladins are more versatile compared to before. Paladins are still going to circle on minimum reqs the only difference is you raised the minimum and thats not an answer.
We had almost no survival reqs before past 10th circle, now we have them all the way through. That's versatily. Paladins before the change couldn't climb said ladder, now, a paladin of the same circle will. That my friend = versatily.
And while you talk about multiple armors and about having worn different armors... What did ya wear under the plate armor when ya jousted? So yeah, multiple armors are realistic, just not in the current shape. My guess is that Ssra is working on adding layered armors, by his last little teaser, but who knows.
Another point to make, everyone, not only paladins, should train multiple weapons. Why? certain critters are more succeptible to certain attacks. Go to Vikati and try hunting them with an edge. Then try with a blunt. You'll see the difference.
>>Anyone who thinks that they were the "better Paladin" because they trained this or trained that is pretty damn narrow minded among other things that I won't mention.
Show me where I said I was the "better Paladin" and I will eat my helm. Though I did say that basically a paladin with higher skill will be a better paladin overall. Able to get into places previous req paladins of the same circle couldn't. And ya can RP all you want, be Lord Blade Master of Ninja Skills and Armor Spikes, with Tiny Flower Category, the fact of the matter is, if ya got no skill to back anything up, you will be stuck up the creek in a lot of situations.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
LENNONJON
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 06:41 PM CDT
How'd this become an argument?
Krymson you need to define exactly what your expectations are here in reference to your request to explain how the new reqs make a "better Paladin". In my mind the explanation that Ecoles gave is a pretty good answer to your querry.
My advice to the young has always been to train at least 1-edged, 1-blunt, 1-pole, and 1-missile weapon, because different situations will call for different tactics. Further I have always advocated shield over any other armor, and training as many other armors as you possibly can, again for versitilities sake. There are occasions where I have chosen to wear chain over plate, or mix and match chain/plate because of hinderance issues. Yes as Paaldins we can train hinderance down further than anyone else, however in my normal full-plate setup with a shield out I am still insignificantly hindered, which hampers evasion. With a chain/plate setup and shield out I have no hinderance. In this scenerio knowing other armor types is important.
Does everyone in the guild encounter this sort of issue or the sorts of situations I have expressed, hell I hope not. However, your question asked how our new reqs help make a Paladin better or more versitile, you never stated it must make ALL Paladins better. If I had only stuck to the previous guild reqs (I shudder at the thought, and honestly think the current ones are still pretty weak but better compared to the previous ones) I could not do what I do, or engage in the solutions to the above scenerios I have explained. To me that is versitility. ::shrugs::
--Just a "clueless" Squire
Krymson you need to define exactly what your expectations are here in reference to your request to explain how the new reqs make a "better Paladin". In my mind the explanation that Ecoles gave is a pretty good answer to your querry.
My advice to the young has always been to train at least 1-edged, 1-blunt, 1-pole, and 1-missile weapon, because different situations will call for different tactics. Further I have always advocated shield over any other armor, and training as many other armors as you possibly can, again for versitilities sake. There are occasions where I have chosen to wear chain over plate, or mix and match chain/plate because of hinderance issues. Yes as Paaldins we can train hinderance down further than anyone else, however in my normal full-plate setup with a shield out I am still insignificantly hindered, which hampers evasion. With a chain/plate setup and shield out I have no hinderance. In this scenerio knowing other armor types is important.
Does everyone in the guild encounter this sort of issue or the sorts of situations I have expressed, hell I hope not. However, your question asked how our new reqs help make a Paladin better or more versitile, you never stated it must make ALL Paladins better. If I had only stuck to the previous guild reqs (I shudder at the thought, and honestly think the current ones are still pretty weak but better compared to the previous ones) I could not do what I do, or engage in the solutions to the above scenerios I have explained. To me that is versitility. ::shrugs::
--Just a "clueless" Squire
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 08:31 PM CDT
>Heh, Hypocrisy doesn't belong with a Lord of whatever.<
>Can't speak about ignorant statements when half of your last post was such.<
>Now, I will try to make ya understand what I said.<
For the exception of the above complete crap in your post, the rest of your points were perfect Ecoles. There was nothing ignorant about what I said in the least, just as there was nothing ignorant about your post. Do not take things as a personal attack. The last statement I made was a general one not specific to you.
The examples you gave of possibilities is exactly the type of answer I was looking for rather than the typical examples of it giving us something more to train. Survival skils, yep definately agree. I wore padded cloth, what would be considered padded armor underneath the plate so while this is a far stretch, I do like the idea of layered armor if it will give additional protection so again another great example and lastly creatures being open to one attack type or another has been something that has been discussed for a long time which I again was very much an advocate for.
So thank you for the examples, and believe me I wouldn't sit here thanking you if I didn't agree or think that the comments made were good oens as most people who know me know. As for the rest...don't be an idiot. You obviously don't know jack about me or anything that I've done which means until you've walked in the shoes of another shut your yap.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
>Can't speak about ignorant statements when half of your last post was such.<
>Now, I will try to make ya understand what I said.<
For the exception of the above complete crap in your post, the rest of your points were perfect Ecoles. There was nothing ignorant about what I said in the least, just as there was nothing ignorant about your post. Do not take things as a personal attack. The last statement I made was a general one not specific to you.
The examples you gave of possibilities is exactly the type of answer I was looking for rather than the typical examples of it giving us something more to train. Survival skils, yep definately agree. I wore padded cloth, what would be considered padded armor underneath the plate so while this is a far stretch, I do like the idea of layered armor if it will give additional protection so again another great example and lastly creatures being open to one attack type or another has been something that has been discussed for a long time which I again was very much an advocate for.
So thank you for the examples, and believe me I wouldn't sit here thanking you if I didn't agree or think that the comments made were good oens as most people who know me know. As for the rest...don't be an idiot. You obviously don't know jack about me or anything that I've done which means until you've walked in the shoes of another shut your yap.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 09:06 PM CDT
>My advice to the young has always been to train at least 1-edged, 1-blunt, 1-pole, and 1-missile weapon, because different situations will call for different tactics. Further I have always advocated shield over any other armor, and training as many other armors as you possibly can, again for versitilities sake. There are occasions where I have chosen to wear chain over plate, or mix and match chain/plate because of hinderance issues. Yes as Paaldins we can train hinderance down further than anyone else, however in my normal full-plate setup with a shield out I am still insignificantly hindered, which hampers evasion. With a chain/plate setup and shield out I have no hinderance. In this scenerio knowing other armor types is important.<
Yep I understand where your coming from Lennon, I was merely looking for practical uses of the reqs which, with the exception of talking extra out of the wrong end, Ecoles did very well. I do think this last point you make though is a pretty good one with regard hinderance which would be significant to younger Paladins who don't wish to maintain the hinderance cost throughout the majority of their careers or older Paladins who wish to try out mixed sets of armor. But from a Practical standpoint (aside from the benefit to youngins) if your best armor is Plate most people arent going to trade it in for chain or leather to run out into the invasion to fight in. That's my point.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Yep I understand where your coming from Lennon, I was merely looking for practical uses of the reqs which, with the exception of talking extra out of the wrong end, Ecoles did very well. I do think this last point you make though is a pretty good one with regard hinderance which would be significant to younger Paladins who don't wish to maintain the hinderance cost throughout the majority of their careers or older Paladins who wish to try out mixed sets of armor. But from a Practical standpoint (aside from the benefit to youngins) if your best armor is Plate most people arent going to trade it in for chain or leather to run out into the invasion to fight in. That's my point.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
DANTASE
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/21/2004 09:30 PM CDT
If I had "shut my yap" you wouldn't have your question answered, so be happy I did so.
And everything I posted about, already exists (existed). So no need to look forward to anything, cept the return of layered armor.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
And everything I posted about, already exists (existed). So no need to look forward to anything, cept the return of layered armor.
Ecoles
You can say %(&!#. You might even be able to get away with **&$##!%%#^. But @&^%!%? Man, keep that to yourself.
CLYNLYN
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/22/2004 02:19 AM CDT
i tend to agree with Krymson that the reqs didnt really do anything , cept change. Its a very simple statement I am about to say, and take it for what it is, paladins are paladins.
Clynlyn
Check out Genie2 A Great New FE
http://www.clanshroud.org/genie
Clynlyn
Check out Genie2 A Great New FE
http://www.clanshroud.org/genie
DR-MAECE
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/22/2004 09:24 AM CDT
Let's tone this one down a bit guys, thanks!
~Maece
[[Space for Rent]]
~Maece
[[Space for Rent]]
MOD-ANNWYL
::Nudge:: Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/22/2004 01:03 PM CDT
Folks,
Lets try to keep the discussion constructive. Anymore bickering or conflicting will be pulled. Lets not derail the discussion with the hostility.
Questions or comments - take it to e-mail, MOD-Annwyl@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Redryn@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Emony@Play.net.
MOD-Annwyl
Lets try to keep the discussion constructive. Anymore bickering or conflicting will be pulled. Lets not derail the discussion with the hostility.
Questions or comments - take it to e-mail, MOD-Annwyl@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Redryn@Play.net or Senior Board Monitor DR-Emony@Play.net.
MOD-Annwyl
ROTHJ
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/22/2004 04:54 PM CDT
Frankly, I don't think the new reqs have changed much, if anything. Drongol's all caught up now, but hasn't circled since they were implemented (yes, I don't play all that much anymore), but to be honest, I don't see what 12 ranks in 2HE and 20 ranks in HP did to make him all that more powerful.
On the other hand, I'm massively overtrained in lore now, and I'll need to get a few more ranks in climbing if I ever want to circle to 120th or so. Frankly, I'm not seeing much of a difference, just a shift in focus. Now the majority of us can spend even more time out in the fields.
Reqs are reqs. Raising them just slows people down, since what truly matters these days is raw skill.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
On the other hand, I'm massively overtrained in lore now, and I'll need to get a few more ranks in climbing if I ever want to circle to 120th or so. Frankly, I'm not seeing much of a difference, just a shift in focus. Now the majority of us can spend even more time out in the fields.
Reqs are reqs. Raising them just slows people down, since what truly matters these days is raw skill.
Drongol's Player
PC also stands for "Paying Customer."
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/22/2004 11:23 PM CDT
I think Ecoles made some good points on what things could be used for out in the field. But to my original point currently I don't see much usage of those ideas with the exception of some creatures which have better resistances to certain weapons, same goes with some evasion things like gates. But on the whole I would be much more happy with training additional weapons/armor if we saw more practicality in the reason behind such changes. That's my point. If we gain additional protection wearing multiple armors then that is going to be a major advantage as to why you would train several. I guess the current issue is that if I walk into an invasion, I'm not going to choose my secondary weapon unless it was absolutely necessary, same with armor and I'm not about to carry around a second suit of armor anyway unless its my primary which is damn heavy. I think it would have been more beneficial currently if Paladins would have had to learn say evasion instead of a secondary armor skill.
Again definately not against change, but for the gods sake please be able to explain the reasoning and benefits/hinderances behind it.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Again definately not against change, but for the gods sake please be able to explain the reasoning and benefits/hinderances behind it.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
WARLOCKCO
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/23/2004 02:22 AM CDT
On the subject of multiple armors, that is something that I'm slowly doing.
One major benefit to multi armors is if ye forge armor.
The only market for the most part for Heavy Plate is other Paladins, but for Heavy Chain and Light Chain there is a very big market.
On the subject of multiple weapons, that is something that I have always done, one of my goals is to eventually have all melee combat skills to 100 or more.
I'll admit I'm only a fraction of the way there, with 2HE, HE, LE, ME, and MB there and about 6 other skills within 20 ranks of that goal.
I will admit that I do have a spread of about 40 ranks between my primary weapon and secondary weapon, but am slowing closing that gap, since I plan to have HE as my holy weapon, even though I am ME primary.
Unless holy weapon gets altered to where it is feasible to use a forged weapon.
I will be using a Schiavonia as my holy weapon, since it is the best 'ordinary' weapon out there, though now that I have an Iltesh also, I might go with ME for my holy weapon, but since that is a ways away yet, I won't worry about it.
Shandarilli,
Paladin of Urrem'tier
One major benefit to multi armors is if ye forge armor.
The only market for the most part for Heavy Plate is other Paladins, but for Heavy Chain and Light Chain there is a very big market.
On the subject of multiple weapons, that is something that I have always done, one of my goals is to eventually have all melee combat skills to 100 or more.
I'll admit I'm only a fraction of the way there, with 2HE, HE, LE, ME, and MB there and about 6 other skills within 20 ranks of that goal.
I will admit that I do have a spread of about 40 ranks between my primary weapon and secondary weapon, but am slowing closing that gap, since I plan to have HE as my holy weapon, even though I am ME primary.
Unless holy weapon gets altered to where it is feasible to use a forged weapon.
I will be using a Schiavonia as my holy weapon, since it is the best 'ordinary' weapon out there, though now that I have an Iltesh also, I might go with ME for my holy weapon, but since that is a ways away yet, I won't worry about it.
Shandarilli,
Paladin of Urrem'tier
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/27/2004 06:15 PM CDT
>2) Evaluate the way we handle guild requirements and allow the players more freedom in the direction they want to take their character's training. Bottom line: Backtraining sucks and there will be no more of it and if at all possible, the people who've been forced to backtrain in the past need to see some sort of benefits from it.<
A recent post from Solomon with regard to DR2 and the views of the effects of guild requirement backtraining. Thought it was a cool statement. Bet Soim is glad to see something like this (ponder backtraining 439 ranks.)
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
A recent post from Solomon with regard to DR2 and the views of the effects of guild requirement backtraining. Thought it was a cool statement. Bet Soim is glad to see something like this (ponder backtraining 439 ranks.)
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
KOLIASA
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/28/2004 03:05 PM CDT
<<<Bet Soim is glad to see something like this (ponder backtraining 439 ranks.)>>>
I thought the whole purpose of this thread was to see how the new paladin reqs effect paladins. That and/or the fact you don't like the reqs.
Anyway you can think of it. Any possible way you can perceive yourself and/or our guild(Real, Fantasy, Power Circlers, Backtrainers, etc) pound per pound, circle for circle the new reqs have made use a tougher more well rounded guild. Whether it be ranks, knowledge, tdps or many other things that contribute to being a paladin. Where you stray and excell away from the reqs is what makes you the paladin that you choose to be. Anything other than that is just RP which has nothing to do with Reqs.
Kolaisa
Stabbity, block, you go thud.
Use that beer sponge you call a brain!
I thought the whole purpose of this thread was to see how the new paladin reqs effect paladins. That and/or the fact you don't like the reqs.
Anyway you can think of it. Any possible way you can perceive yourself and/or our guild(Real, Fantasy, Power Circlers, Backtrainers, etc) pound per pound, circle for circle the new reqs have made use a tougher more well rounded guild. Whether it be ranks, knowledge, tdps or many other things that contribute to being a paladin. Where you stray and excell away from the reqs is what makes you the paladin that you choose to be. Anything other than that is just RP which has nothing to do with Reqs.
Kolaisa
Stabbity, block, you go thud.
Use that beer sponge you call a brain!
SEORDMIR
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/28/2004 06:08 PM CDT
>I thought the whole purpose of this thread was to see how the new paladin reqs effect paladins. That and/or the fact you don't like the reqs.<
Actually no, the purpose of the thread was to find out what people thought the reqs have done or have not done for the Paladin guild. The purpose of the previous post was to give those whom understand the impact that backtraining does a bit of a morale boost if Solomon keeps his promises about DR2.
And while I'm very glad some people like the reqs, as can be seen here in posts by others, some feel the reqs haven't done much for us at all. New reqs aren't truly created to make a guild more well rounded I think the majority of people realize that, what they are created for is to have each guild meet a new status quo set forth by the game masters/designers or what have you either to hamper overall progression which is a major problem when you have no circle limit and are constantly having to change or evolve the world in some way to keep things interesting for the higher level characters, or to do what they consider guild balancing which in effect is truly not balancing anything, to do that you'd have to take a much better look at each guilds abilities, weaknesses, and test each of those in multiple situations before coming to one conclusion or another, for instance just like in almost every other MMORPG out there magic prime professions dominate in combat, something that should never be the case and there are a multitude of things that can be done to prevent this if one is creative. In today's world you don't aquire a masters degree just to have it yanked from you and be told that though you may have spent 5 years or more in college to obtain this degree your education isn't up to par with todays newly set standards. Now while that may be true as children who actually apply themselves are getting smarter all the time, it's not done because it's unethical. In DR however this is done all the time, be it with combat, magic, circles, etc.
Imagine if you will, you have a Paladin whom trained THE/HE and therefore did not train shield because of the pain it is to do so using THE as their primary weapon. (And who can blame a person that sees their shining Paladin as the Paladins of myth and in books depicted as carrying those long two handed claymores? I can't.) This Paladin just aquired the skill to feel they were effective in Death Spirits, something that they saw as their goal for a very long time. Well soon after combat changes and now they can barely hang with the gargoyles that used to be easy for them. Soon after that reqs change so now they need to back train their shield skill, skill slots change so they have to be more careful about how they choose their spells. Well rounded? If this Paladin kept relying on THE they most likely would have had an evasion skill which made up for their lack of shield skill not to mention their parry skill being through the roof, personally I don't see the problem with that. For every rank they gained in another armor they had to don, they could have been gaining additional ranks in their primary armor and considering that no one wears their secondary armor into battle creatues at their skill level or higher what's the point in today's DR. Personally, I think that sucks and I don't think the answer is "Oh well you should have trained other skills which would have defined you better." No one can define a character better than the person playing it! No one should decide for the character as to what ranks outside of what is necessary for circle the Paladin should train to make it more real for that person other than that person. A standard was set for the guild when these players came to the guild in which to play, that was the standard they knew had to be met in order to keep up within the guild. There was nothing in Darius's speech about training additonal reqs because they might change. So as a result the players got blindsided for choices they made which they once had the freedom to make and for the good cause of shaping their characters the way they saw fit.
I have no issue with change whatsoever, and I generally welcome it...when it makes sense. And yes even a fantasy world has to make some sense as we all know. Doesn't have to be reality based but it does need to make sense. And those who effect change are the people that have to be responsible for that change and the outcomes it has. If you look at DR2, the post by Solomon, at the posts people are making it should be obvious there are problems. Look in the combat folder, people are tired of this being a number crunching math game that it has now become, they want the fantasy back. If someone wants to make us well rounded, then come up with ways to make armor ranks more effective, come up with abilities that define and empower the guild (A holy weapon that actually does something meaningful), make melee combatants more effective(Weapon specialists, dual weapons, shield bash/rush)(why do you think even magic secondary or tertiary guild still have insane ranks now?), hell if Paladins are supposed to be the shining example of this or that why in the hell can't they even have abilities that light up a damn room???? If anyone should have that should it not be the Paladins (of light?).
..lol but thats really a side bar from the purpose of the last post.
Just some random rants as always.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
Actually no, the purpose of the thread was to find out what people thought the reqs have done or have not done for the Paladin guild. The purpose of the previous post was to give those whom understand the impact that backtraining does a bit of a morale boost if Solomon keeps his promises about DR2.
And while I'm very glad some people like the reqs, as can be seen here in posts by others, some feel the reqs haven't done much for us at all. New reqs aren't truly created to make a guild more well rounded I think the majority of people realize that, what they are created for is to have each guild meet a new status quo set forth by the game masters/designers or what have you either to hamper overall progression which is a major problem when you have no circle limit and are constantly having to change or evolve the world in some way to keep things interesting for the higher level characters, or to do what they consider guild balancing which in effect is truly not balancing anything, to do that you'd have to take a much better look at each guilds abilities, weaknesses, and test each of those in multiple situations before coming to one conclusion or another, for instance just like in almost every other MMORPG out there magic prime professions dominate in combat, something that should never be the case and there are a multitude of things that can be done to prevent this if one is creative. In today's world you don't aquire a masters degree just to have it yanked from you and be told that though you may have spent 5 years or more in college to obtain this degree your education isn't up to par with todays newly set standards. Now while that may be true as children who actually apply themselves are getting smarter all the time, it's not done because it's unethical. In DR however this is done all the time, be it with combat, magic, circles, etc.
Imagine if you will, you have a Paladin whom trained THE/HE and therefore did not train shield because of the pain it is to do so using THE as their primary weapon. (And who can blame a person that sees their shining Paladin as the Paladins of myth and in books depicted as carrying those long two handed claymores? I can't.) This Paladin just aquired the skill to feel they were effective in Death Spirits, something that they saw as their goal for a very long time. Well soon after combat changes and now they can barely hang with the gargoyles that used to be easy for them. Soon after that reqs change so now they need to back train their shield skill, skill slots change so they have to be more careful about how they choose their spells. Well rounded? If this Paladin kept relying on THE they most likely would have had an evasion skill which made up for their lack of shield skill not to mention their parry skill being through the roof, personally I don't see the problem with that. For every rank they gained in another armor they had to don, they could have been gaining additional ranks in their primary armor and considering that no one wears their secondary armor into battle creatues at their skill level or higher what's the point in today's DR. Personally, I think that sucks and I don't think the answer is "Oh well you should have trained other skills which would have defined you better." No one can define a character better than the person playing it! No one should decide for the character as to what ranks outside of what is necessary for circle the Paladin should train to make it more real for that person other than that person. A standard was set for the guild when these players came to the guild in which to play, that was the standard they knew had to be met in order to keep up within the guild. There was nothing in Darius's speech about training additonal reqs because they might change. So as a result the players got blindsided for choices they made which they once had the freedom to make and for the good cause of shaping their characters the way they saw fit.
I have no issue with change whatsoever, and I generally welcome it...when it makes sense. And yes even a fantasy world has to make some sense as we all know. Doesn't have to be reality based but it does need to make sense. And those who effect change are the people that have to be responsible for that change and the outcomes it has. If you look at DR2, the post by Solomon, at the posts people are making it should be obvious there are problems. Look in the combat folder, people are tired of this being a number crunching math game that it has now become, they want the fantasy back. If someone wants to make us well rounded, then come up with ways to make armor ranks more effective, come up with abilities that define and empower the guild (A holy weapon that actually does something meaningful), make melee combatants more effective(Weapon specialists, dual weapons, shield bash/rush)(why do you think even magic secondary or tertiary guild still have insane ranks now?), hell if Paladins are supposed to be the shining example of this or that why in the hell can't they even have abilities that light up a damn room???? If anyone should have that should it not be the Paladins (of light?).
..lol but thats really a side bar from the purpose of the last post.
Just some random rants as always.
Lord Krymson Dyne Ebonrune
Dark Paladin of Urrem'tier
AMBASSODER
Re: How have the new reqs changed things?
04/28/2004 11:57 PM CDT
So reading your post, what you say to a change to every guild (if possible maybe maybe not) where the skill groups are set but you choose what specific skills from those skill groups that you train to advance that will define your character? Anything else you train is totally up to you and can either further define or strenghten you character.
Anyways, hope this makes sense...
Thaladarr
Anyways, hope this makes sense...
Thaladarr
