re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 12:48 PM CST
I like the changes, it's still a little niche-y, but not NEARLY as punishing to use. The Soul boost is a nice bonus.

Appreciate it.

Samsaren
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 01:16 PM CST
Thanks. From a former triage paladin and VoS fan, these changes are very welcome. I especially like the soul boost.

I have one minor wish for the future, if it's possible, mostly for RP reasons. That's to make the vessel autonomously heal people rather than requiring the TOUCH. How do I put this... There's sort of an unspoken OOC thing where people want to help you maintain your soul by letting you tend them. I really appreciate it when they do that, but it takes away something from the spirit of that method of soul improving. I don't see VoS becoming quite that, but knowing that it could become that would probably attenuate some of the OOC nice feelings that come with helping peeps.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 01:26 PM CST

>That's to make the vessel autonomously heal people rather than requiring the TOUCH

I don't agree with this. I like your intent, but the use I envision this will be at the empath garden (or where they gather), and aid the healers. Yes, others could use it as well, but hopefully they would the empaths tend them if present and awake. Automatically healing people will detract from that, as well as removing the "RP choice" from the character.

This is a spell I avoided as a young paladin as it was niche-y and spell slots were precious. I'm now at a stage (circle 51), where spell slots are still precious, but I can barely maintain the buffs I have during combat, let alone add another. An out of combat utility spell that pushes the paladin guild in serving the community... I just may pick this up today.

Mithgrek, player of, enjoying all these recent and upcoming development!
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 01:59 PM CST

> Yes, others could use it as well, but hopefully they would the empaths tend them if present and awake. Automatically healing people will detract from that, as well as removing the "RP choice" from the character.

I get why you'd want to restrict your sacrifice to only those you deem worthy, but I think it's too niche. I suspect you're going to see paladins dropping those for a while, telling people to use them, and then giving up for everyone but their alts dealing with special mechanics in high level hunting zones.

I don't say this to detract from the change. It now has a legitimate use, and I think the theme of giving a little and getting a little back. I just think this could be tweaked to better fit how people play DR.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 02:02 PM CST


Let me give you an example. Look at Empathic link. You can boost any skill for your Empath so long as the other person is in the room, but you have to teach people to accept the link. That's insanely powerful, but no one uses it because that teaching component is more difficult than you'd think. I see the same thing happening here.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 02:21 PM CST
>I don't agree with this. I like your intent, but the use I envision this will be at the empath garden (or where they gather), and aid the healers.

Coincidentally, I was thinking of using it to help those empaths who encouraged me to tend them for my soul in triage. I get that it's tricky territory but I don't see how it's vastly different allowing it to be (semi-)autonomous vs having people touch it for their vit heal. Both are ostensibly empath territory. Plus, it might mean the difference between life and death if it kept someone (incl. empaths) from dying while an empath is asleep. Note: I don't expect as a paladin to receive any abusable vit healing ability that would allow me to keep pumping vessels full of juice without dying.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 02:32 PM CST


> Note: I don't expect as a paladin to receive any abusable vit healing ability that would allow me to keep pumping vessels full of juice without dying.

Yes, this. The owner of the vessel shouldn't be included in the auto feed primarily because of the penalties to using your own vessel.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 03:33 PM CST
I'd be curious to hear from Empaths who find this a worthwhile addition over, say, a Bard playing HODI, or a snapcast of VH. I wouldn't be surprised (but could be wrong!) that it's not particularly valuable as a triage tool.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 04:15 PM CST


As someone who plays an empath pretty heavily, I can say that I'd likely never use it. I can bring my own vitality up faster than I can read a room description to see if a vessel is there. I have spells to reduce or stop my own vitality loss or that loss in others, and

The only time I need outside vitality is if I wasn't careful and over-extended. In which case, a quick break all and prep/cast BS won't save me because I'm unconscious. That's when I need automatic help. Either through lilt, another Empath, or something like this. That's very rare.

I admit that you're more likely to see auto-feeding helping someone who wasn't paying attention or couldn't find an empath (and likely don't know about this vessel anyway). I still think that use case is both beneficial to the paladin and the game as a whole. A lot more beneficial for the game than a paladin setting one up in wyrvens for when their alt / hunting-buddy gets hit by the wing attack.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/11/2018 05:30 PM CST
Speaking as a non-Paladin who would like to use the vessel during invasions and the like, my suggestion is for the vessel to interact with potential users. It's just very difficult with all the scroll and people to search for one in the room (and remember to search to begin with).

I'd have the vessel approach those missing vitality and give them some messaging suggesting that they could TOUCH it. The messaging could be auto-highlighted by the game, or I could just throw it into my highlights. With triggers and such I could even choose to set myself up to automatically make use of it.


- Navesi
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/18/2018 12:17 PM CST
Armifer, I'm having trouble replacing a vessel I cast in another room. I tried casting VOS in empath's today in an attempt to save someone from a vit death, but I received the following message:

You already have a sacrifical vessel in another location, and cannot muster the energies to create one here.

I tried a min prep cast and a 100 mana cast at partial and full prep. I also tried in a different room. All failed in the same manner. Also, there appears to be a typo, which I've italicized above.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/18/2018 05:07 PM CST
Yeah, right now it's a hard stop if you have a vessel in another room. When I get a moment I'll go back into the spell and make the new vessel override the existing one.

On that note: I apologize for the silence of the last few days, and probably proceeding for the next few. Real life is kicking me right now and distracting me from DR. It shall pass, but it's impeding my ability to fix and push out the Smite stuff as timely as I imagined.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/18/2018 06:14 PM CST
>>On that note: I apologize for the silence of the last few days, and probably proceeding for the next few. Real life is kicking me right now and distracting me from DR. It shall pass, but it's impeding my ability to fix and push out the Smite stuff as timely as I imagined.

We shall await your return with baited breath. Don't sweat it, we've muddled along so far, I can't imagine a small window of time shattering anyone's calm here.

Samsaren
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/18/2018 06:49 PM CST
>We shall await your return with baited breath. Don't sweat it, we've muddled along so far, I can't imagine a small window of time shattering anyone's calm here.

These updates are the most positive and significant changes Paladin have gotten in a long while, probably since the 3.0 conversion.

Thanks a lot for the work Armifer.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/18/2018 09:53 PM CST
>Yeah, right now it's a hard stop if you have a vessel in another room. When I get a moment I'll go back into the spell and make the new vessel override the existing one.

Thanks!

>On that note: I apologize for the silence of the last few days, and probably proceeding for the next few. Real life is kicking me right now and distracting me from DR. It shall pass, but it's impeding my ability to fix and push out the Smite stuff as timely as I imagined.

I honestly couldn't expect more than you're already giving us. I feel like we've already gained a lot in a couple short weeks. In any case, I hope the RL stuff is good, and hope you'll check in every so often even if busy just because Paladin curse.
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re: Vessel Of Salvation updates 01/19/2018 07:50 AM CST


> I honestly couldn't expect more than you're already giving us. I feel like we've already gained a lot in a couple short weeks. In any case, I hope the RL stuff is good, and hope you'll check in every so often even if busy just because Paladin curse.

This right here.
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