Raesh, I think there are some typos that made it into the changes.
TR Now requires a minimum of 30 mana. My 90th circle paladin can maintain it for approximately 3 seconds with all relevant spell feats learned in a good holy mana room with over 300 attune, magic and other relative skills. I suspect 30 mana is supposed to the max for the spell, not the minimum.
By comparison, HOW which is the same difficulty has 5 mana as its minimum cast.
Lastly, does the raising of TR to esoteric mean it wont appear in the scroll system?
REWYN
REWYN
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 09:06 AM CST
Something I just noticed today..CrC is gone! This isnt new (its not in our 3.0 preview list) but curious if its waiting for a 3.0 make over or if we are getting something else (Endurance?) to fill that role?.
QUARRIC3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 10:57 AM CST
Couple of things i noticed. Not sure if there intentional or not.
The blue prep bar doesn't appear to be showing up anymore (Stormfront in case that matters) and more importantly it appears the the fully prepared message no longer shows up meaning i have to just guess when its ready to cast.
The 30 mana req for TR as a cyclic spell seems very high, we are after all a magic tert guild, but more importantly it teaches terribly. For complete mana drain it moved to 3/34 on Augmentation i find this quite tough to take. At the same time the 5 mana req of HoW locks my warding skill and i never drop below 90% attunement and locks warding even with low mana cast.
I like the removal of Tipping the scales SR definitely needed something else and that's quite fitting.
As Rewyn mentioned I think having Crusaders challenge (or some version of that) would be nice but we have plenty in our spell book to be pleased with right now.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
The blue prep bar doesn't appear to be showing up anymore (Stormfront in case that matters) and more importantly it appears the the fully prepared message no longer shows up meaning i have to just guess when its ready to cast.
The 30 mana req for TR as a cyclic spell seems very high, we are after all a magic tert guild, but more importantly it teaches terribly. For complete mana drain it moved to 3/34 on Augmentation i find this quite tough to take. At the same time the 5 mana req of HoW locks my warding skill and i never drop below 90% attunement and locks warding even with low mana cast.
I like the removal of Tipping the scales SR definitely needed something else and that's quite fitting.
As Rewyn mentioned I think having Crusaders challenge (or some version of that) would be nice but we have plenty in our spell book to be pleased with right now.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
QUARRIC3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 11:00 AM CST
I just wanted to correct that blue prep bar issue, I assume that moving it to esoteric has made in prep instantly ? this is why the bar doesn't show.. so my bad there apologies for any confusion. The rest of the post still stands.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
ASHAMAN1
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 11:04 AM CST
TR - I think somethings wonky about this one, its instantly prepped and I do hope the 30-100 mana is incorrect as well.
Thanks
Samsaren
> prep tr
power
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
You feel intense strain as you try to manipulate the mana streams to form this pattern, and you are not certain that you will have enough mental stamina to complete it.
You begin chanting a mantra to invoke the Truffenyi's Rally spell.
>
You reach out with your senses and see shining (13/21) streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is dusky (6/21) mana to the west, dusky (6/21) mana to the southeast, and shining (13/21) mana to the north.
You have fully prepared the Truffenyi's Rally spell at thirty mana.
You have not exhausted your ability to smite your foes at all.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Thanks
Samsaren
> prep tr
power
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
You feel intense strain as you try to manipulate the mana streams to form this pattern, and you are not certain that you will have enough mental stamina to complete it.
You begin chanting a mantra to invoke the Truffenyi's Rally spell.
>
You reach out with your senses and see shining (13/21) streams of golden Holy mana radiating through the area.
Letting your senses extend further, you feel there is dusky (6/21) mana to the west, dusky (6/21) mana to the southeast, and shining (13/21) mana to the north.
You have fully prepared the Truffenyi's Rally spell at thirty mana.
You have not exhausted your ability to smite your foes at all.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
ILLIENA
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 11:40 AM CST
> TR - I think somethings wonky about this one, its instantly prepped
That's working as intended for cyclic spells.
That's working as intended for cyclic spells.
SULLIVANS3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:16 PM CST
This doesn't affect me personally but I think it's pretty harsh to not have any cyclic training options under esoteric levels. Not just for paladins, but in general. With so many magic skills to train, and no cyclic options at lower levels, this seems to encourage the 'stand around and cast forever' option, which isn't fun for anyone.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
VOLCANUS
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:25 PM CST
Do we know which cyclics are available from the cleric spell books via scrolls? Could we get theoreticall pick up the the magic theorist feat and learn say maladiction + hydra hex for for a cyclic disabler or uncurse + hydra hex for a cyclic utility at moderately low levels?
SULLIVANS3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:29 PM CST
Not sure. I know Rangers have a similar quandary with their only cyclic spells both being esoteric, and actually they both teach the same two skills (aug/ward) so while they are great spells on their own, they aren't much of a training help.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
REWYN
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:32 PM CST
I'm going through TR withdrawal:( Really hoping this gets fixed..
BEVERAGEK
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:40 PM CST
I think it was stated that everyone's cyclic spells would be Esoteric in difficulty.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
SULLIVANS3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:47 PM CST
Perhaps but as far as I can tell that's not even close to the case at this point. Obviously possible these tweaks are happening across the board so that may be changing. But from what I can see in spell lists, Clerics, MM, bards, necromancers and WMs all have cyclic spells lower than esoteric difficulty. Not complaining as much as pointing out the reason I brought it up. I'm not sure which way it's intended to be, but I don't think it would be game breaking to allow at least one lower level cyclic spell per guild.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 12:51 PM CST
>>I think it was stated that everyone's cyclic spells would be Esoteric in difficulty.
I think that was the original plan but it seems to have deviated right out the gate, even if we take into consideration that Bard exception.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I think that was the original plan but it seems to have deviated right out the gate, even if we take into consideration that Bard exception.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
DR-RICINUS
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:08 PM CST
The mana ranges for this spell were a little off, they've been adjusted.
AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate
AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate
ANOUSHKA
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:21 PM CST
First of all, thank you for fixing TR's mana cost.
But, secondly, I'm posting the below on Stormont's player's behalf:
I was looking forward to playing Stormont a lot more with the 3.0 changes, such as ease of training crossbows. And now it's like "oh nevermind, I can't train 2/3rds of my magics anymore."
If these spells are going to require circles 30th and 40th, they should at least be castable at min prep with those circles + 10-20 circles' magic requirements.
But, secondly, I'm posting the below on Stormont's player's behalf:
I was looking forward to playing Stormont a lot more with the 3.0 changes, such as ease of training crossbows. And now it's like "oh nevermind, I can't train 2/3rds of my magics anymore."
If these spells are going to require circles 30th and 40th, they should at least be castable at min prep with those circles + 10-20 circles' magic requirements.
QUARRIC3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:50 PM CST
I just tested Bond armament the new version of bond weapon.
Not sure whats going on but it just does not work. Log below.
So .. min prep with 20 mana in camb
You gesture at a haralun hurling axe with a balanced blade.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your hurling axe.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your hurling axe.
>focus axe
You focus your magical senses on a haralun hurling axe with a balanced blade.
The hurling axe has no discernible magical pattern.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>perc axe
You slow your breathing and clear your mind.
The hurling axe rests quietly, utterly devoid of spiritual essence.
You don't detect anything unusual about the hurling axe.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
I throw it .. it does not come back. I tried invoke bond just in case.. but still no luck.
Thanks for taking a look.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
Not sure whats going on but it just does not work. Log below.
So .. min prep with 20 mana in camb
You gesture at a haralun hurling axe with a balanced blade.
Your cambrinth armband emits a loud snap as it discharges all its power to aid your spell.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your hurling axe.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your hurling axe.
>focus axe
You focus your magical senses on a haralun hurling axe with a balanced blade.
The hurling axe has no discernible magical pattern.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>perc axe
You slow your breathing and clear your mind.
The hurling axe rests quietly, utterly devoid of spiritual essence.
You don't detect anything unusual about the hurling axe.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
I throw it .. it does not come back. I tried invoke bond just in case.. but still no luck.
Thanks for taking a look.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
QUARRIC3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:52 PM CST
Great for fixing TR cost. Works fine again now.
However the spell prep issue still is a pain. If we cast above min prep snap casting is not possible (for me anyways) having to guess when to cast it for success is not my idea of fun. Between 10-25 seconds depending on prep it seems.
Thanks for you time
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
However the spell prep issue still is a pain. If we cast above min prep snap casting is not possible (for me anyways) having to guess when to cast it for success is not my idea of fun. Between 10-25 seconds depending on prep it seems.
Thanks for you time
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
VOLCANUS
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:55 PM CST
I'm actually okay with spells requiring a bit more magics than the circle requirement. It gives a little something to those who aren't circle chasing or have purchased feats.
That said, it would be nice to update the description with a small line: this spell will require exceptional magical ability.... or something that shows it's not going to be castable by someone hovering just at the reqs without specific feats.
That said, it would be nice to update the description with a small line: this spell will require exceptional magical ability.... or something that shows it's not going to be castable by someone hovering just at the reqs without specific feats.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 01:56 PM CST
>I was looking forward to playing Stormont a lot more with the 3.0 changes, such as ease of training crossbows. And now it's like "oh nevermind, I can't train 2/3rds of my magics anymore."
Posting for other players is not helpful. It's adding a secondary and quaternary point of failure, requiring you to interpret and relay the information, which serves no purpose. Especially if they are unhappy about things, and want changes made for the better.
It's gossip.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
Posting for other players is not helpful. It's adding a secondary and quaternary point of failure, requiring you to interpret and relay the information, which serves no purpose. Especially if they are unhappy about things, and want changes made for the better.
It's gossip.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
ANOUSHKA
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:24 PM CST
>>Posting for other players is not helpful...requiring you to interpret
Hi Ucu. Thank you for playing. When I'm actually quoting Stormont's player, there's no interpretation involved. I look forward to gossiping with you in the future though.
That said, this is also directly from Stormont. "A circle 51 paladin with magics higher than the guild reqs can't cast spells with circle reqs 10+ lower than where he's at. To me it's only half a matter of him not being able to train well. The real issue I have is that newer paladins, if they're uninformed, could be spending spell slots on things that they won't have a chance of using at all for another 40 or 50 circles if they're lucky."
Hi Ucu. Thank you for playing. When I'm actually quoting Stormont's player, there's no interpretation involved. I look forward to gossiping with you in the future though.
That said, this is also directly from Stormont. "A circle 51 paladin with magics higher than the guild reqs can't cast spells with circle reqs 10+ lower than where he's at. To me it's only half a matter of him not being able to train well. The real issue I have is that newer paladins, if they're uninformed, could be spending spell slots on things that they won't have a chance of using at all for another 40 or 50 circles if they're lucky."
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:32 PM CST
>> The real issue I have is that newer paladins, if they're uninformed, could be spending spell slots on things that they won't have a chance of using at all for another 40 or 50 circles if they're lucky.
This is true for most guilds.
This is true for most guilds.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:33 PM CST
>>When I'm actually quoting Stormont's player, there's no interpretation involved.
The main issue is that it is difficult to troubleshoot someone's problems with something via the web-based iteration of game of telephone.
>>A circle 51 paladin with magics higher than the guild reqs can't cast spells with circle reqs 10+ lower than where he's at. To me it's only half a matter of him not being able to train well. The real issue I have is that newer paladins, if they're uninformed, could be spending spell slots on things that they won't have a chance of using at all for another 40 or 50 circles if they're lucky.
AFAIK players can start casting esoteric magic at 200 ranks. While Paladins have very spartan magic requirements, I don't think it's unexpected for magic users to have that kind of magic soon enough.
Think of it how we don't have to do the holy weapon quest as soon as we get it. We might want to wait to get more skill.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
The main issue is that it is difficult to troubleshoot someone's problems with something via the web-based iteration of game of telephone.
>>A circle 51 paladin with magics higher than the guild reqs can't cast spells with circle reqs 10+ lower than where he's at. To me it's only half a matter of him not being able to train well. The real issue I have is that newer paladins, if they're uninformed, could be spending spell slots on things that they won't have a chance of using at all for another 40 or 50 circles if they're lucky.
AFAIK players can start casting esoteric magic at 200 ranks. While Paladins have very spartan magic requirements, I don't think it's unexpected for magic users to have that kind of magic soon enough.
Think of it how we don't have to do the holy weapon quest as soon as we get it. We might want to wait to get more skill.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
DAENAR-DR
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:41 PM CST
>> Posting for other players is not helpful.
>> Hi Ucu. Thank you for playing. When I'm actually quoting Stormont's player, there's no interpretation involved. I look forward to gossiping with you in the future though.
Ucu is 100% right. You should thank him for pointing this out to you. I decided to just ignore you. If he had ignored you, then you would be wondering why no one is answering. Now you know.
But seeing as how I have decided to respond, I'll tell you this. It's near impossible for that Paladin to be unable to train any one of his magic skills. He just needs to learn how. For example, if he is trying to learn warding by using an Esoteric, tell him to use a lower difficulty paladin spell, or use Manifest Force or Lay Ward.
There is about 500 different combinations to train magics. Try experimenting. I spent a good 4-5 hours casting all my spells and finding out what taught best at what mana levels. He could also do this while hunting/rping, etc, and writing down the mana values.
Lots of good choices to make here.
>> Hi Ucu. Thank you for playing. When I'm actually quoting Stormont's player, there's no interpretation involved. I look forward to gossiping with you in the future though.
Ucu is 100% right. You should thank him for pointing this out to you. I decided to just ignore you. If he had ignored you, then you would be wondering why no one is answering. Now you know.
But seeing as how I have decided to respond, I'll tell you this. It's near impossible for that Paladin to be unable to train any one of his magic skills. He just needs to learn how. For example, if he is trying to learn warding by using an Esoteric, tell him to use a lower difficulty paladin spell, or use Manifest Force or Lay Ward.
There is about 500 different combinations to train magics. Try experimenting. I spent a good 4-5 hours casting all my spells and finding out what taught best at what mana levels. He could also do this while hunting/rping, etc, and writing down the mana values.
Lots of good choices to make here.
DAENAR-DR
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:42 PM CST
>> AFAIK players can start casting esoteric magic at 200 ranks. While Paladins have very spartan magic requirements, I don't think it's unexpected for magic users to have that kind of magic soon enough.
You can always pick up the Feat too. Does anyone know how much it bonuses?
You can always pick up the Feat too. Does anyone know how much it bonuses?
SULLIVANS3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 02:59 PM CST
I don't know exactly how much, but I know a paladin with 200 PM and 180 warding couldn't cast HoW, but can with the warding mastery feat.
~Katt
A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!
TIMALISO
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 04:21 PM CST
Indeed, not working at all. And looks like you can only have one thing bound at a time as well, is this intended? Used to be able to bond both a weapon and shield at the same time.
> cast fal
You gesture at a steel falchion.
You contribute your harnessed streams to increase the pattern's potential.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your steel falchion.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your steel falchion.
> drop fal
You drop a steel falchion.
>
You feel fully rested.
> take fal
Your cambrinth bracelet thrums softly as it discharges all its power to maintain your spell.
>
You pick up a steel falchion.
> release bond
Your previous bond with a steel falchion breaks.
> cast falchion
You gesture at a steel falchion.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your steel falchion.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your steel falchion.
> prep ba 10
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Bond Armaments spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
> cast aegis
You gesture at a lumium aegis.
Your previous bond with a steel falchion breaks.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your aegis.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your aegis.
> drop aegis
You drop a lumium aegis.
>
You falter for a moment as your inner faculties return to normal.
> invoke bond
You don't have any bonds to invoke!
> take aegis
You pick up a lumium aegis.
> release bond
Your previous bond with a lumium aegis breaks.
> cast fal
You gesture at a steel falchion.
You contribute your harnessed streams to increase the pattern's potential.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your steel falchion.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your steel falchion.
> drop fal
You drop a steel falchion.
>
You feel fully rested.
> take fal
Your cambrinth bracelet thrums softly as it discharges all its power to maintain your spell.
>
You pick up a steel falchion.
> release bond
Your previous bond with a steel falchion breaks.
> cast falchion
You gesture at a steel falchion.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your steel falchion.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your steel falchion.
> prep ba 10
That will disrupt less than a quarter of your current attunement.
You begin chanting a psalm to invoke the Bond Armaments spell.
>
You feel fully rested.
> cast aegis
You gesture at a lumium aegis.
Your previous bond with a steel falchion breaks.
Tendrils of translucent white writhe around your aegis.
You sense a new bond forged between you and your aegis.
> drop aegis
You drop a lumium aegis.
>
You falter for a moment as your inner faculties return to normal.
> invoke bond
You don't have any bonds to invoke!
> take aegis
You pick up a lumium aegis.
> release bond
Your previous bond with a lumium aegis breaks.
DR-RAESH
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 04:21 PM CST
>>TR Now requires a minimum of 30 mana.
Yeah, my bad, I grabbed the wrong numbers. Ricinus fixed this however. Props to him.
>>Lastly, does the raising of TR to esoteric mean it wont appear in the scroll system?
Esoteric has nothing to do with the scroll system so far as I am aware. It was mostly raised to extend the range of paladin spell training.
>>Something I just noticed today..CrC is gone!
It just hasn't been converted yet, I think we were waiting on combat to settle out.
>>I think it was stated that everyone's cyclic spells would be Esoteric in difficulty.
I believe this was stated as a design goal at one point and discarded. Keep in mind if the complaint is "We want a low level cyclic so we can train better" what you're really saying is "The exp balance between cyclic and non cyclic spells isn't dialed in properly yet".
>>If these spells are going to require circles 30th and 40th, they should at least be castable at min prep with those circles + 10-20 circles' magic requirements.
Castmods are not set in stone right now, but general tiers are. They'll wiggle around a little bit as we dial things in and it may be that tert casters need higher circle reqs to gate spells - but the downside of that is it punishes people who really do focus on their magics.
>>Not sure whats going on but it just does not work. Log below.
Whoops. I think I fixed the problem, if that doesn't get it I'll go code diving later tonight to try and turn it up.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Yeah, my bad, I grabbed the wrong numbers. Ricinus fixed this however. Props to him.
>>Lastly, does the raising of TR to esoteric mean it wont appear in the scroll system?
Esoteric has nothing to do with the scroll system so far as I am aware. It was mostly raised to extend the range of paladin spell training.
>>Something I just noticed today..CrC is gone!
It just hasn't been converted yet, I think we were waiting on combat to settle out.
>>I think it was stated that everyone's cyclic spells would be Esoteric in difficulty.
I believe this was stated as a design goal at one point and discarded. Keep in mind if the complaint is "We want a low level cyclic so we can train better" what you're really saying is "The exp balance between cyclic and non cyclic spells isn't dialed in properly yet".
>>If these spells are going to require circles 30th and 40th, they should at least be castable at min prep with those circles + 10-20 circles' magic requirements.
Castmods are not set in stone right now, but general tiers are. They'll wiggle around a little bit as we dial things in and it may be that tert casters need higher circle reqs to gate spells - but the downside of that is it punishes people who really do focus on their magics.
>>Not sure whats going on but it just does not work. Log below.
Whoops. I think I fixed the problem, if that doesn't get it I'll go code diving later tonight to try and turn it up.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
TIMALISO
2DUMBARSE
Re: Spell tweaks
01/22/2013 05:15 PM CST
>Tipping the Scale - Replaced by Veteran Insight metaspell
Love this change. Thanks, Raesh!
Love this change. Thanks, Raesh!
QUARRIC3
Re: Spell tweaks
01/23/2013 01:45 PM CST
I was wondering if there was any news about the spell prep bar for cyclic spells being put back in Raesh ? I find it really hard to judge when i can cast it without having either the blue prep bar or a fully prepared message its very hit n miss and i am sure you cannot mean it to be this way.
thanks for you time.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
thanks for you time.
Words Words Words .. in the end thats all it is
SEBESTYEN64
Re: Spell tweaks
01/24/2013 10:11 AM CST
It took me until today to figure out magic training. I like 3.0 a lot more than 2.0 and thought I would comment.
<<Keep in mind if the complaint is "We want a low level cyclic so we can train better" what you're really saying is "The exp balance between cyclic and non cyclic spells isn't dialed in properly yet".
The reason a cyclic is better training, is because you can cast it and it has some use in combat if you keep it up, gaining experience all the while. Tweak the learning rates if you want, but low circles are just going to have to do it the old way (sit and spam spells until locked) which, quite honestly, is one reason I never trained magics. Most all of my magic skills came from buffing before a hunt. I really do not understand all of the negative posting when the point was valid. Since the goal is to make 3.0 magic better, don't leave the lower circles behind.
<<Castmods are not set in stone right now, but general tiers are. They'll wiggle around a little bit as we dial things in and it may be that tert casters need higher circle reqs to gate spells - but the downside of that is it punishes people who really do focus on their magics.
I am sure you guys will find a balance that is acceptable but I wanted to add my thoughts.
Overall, 3.0 is pretty good, much to like about it and I appreciate all the work the GM's have put into this 'Refresh' of DR.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
<<Keep in mind if the complaint is "We want a low level cyclic so we can train better" what you're really saying is "The exp balance between cyclic and non cyclic spells isn't dialed in properly yet".
The reason a cyclic is better training, is because you can cast it and it has some use in combat if you keep it up, gaining experience all the while. Tweak the learning rates if you want, but low circles are just going to have to do it the old way (sit and spam spells until locked) which, quite honestly, is one reason I never trained magics. Most all of my magic skills came from buffing before a hunt. I really do not understand all of the negative posting when the point was valid. Since the goal is to make 3.0 magic better, don't leave the lower circles behind.
<<Castmods are not set in stone right now, but general tiers are. They'll wiggle around a little bit as we dial things in and it may be that tert casters need higher circle reqs to gate spells - but the downside of that is it punishes people who really do focus on their magics.
I am sure you guys will find a balance that is acceptable but I wanted to add my thoughts.
Overall, 3.0 is pretty good, much to like about it and I appreciate all the work the GM's have put into this 'Refresh' of DR.
~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.
