> I don't know if it's by design but Paladin is the only guild, except Trader I believe, that doesn't have any AoE debilitation.

Does Banner of Truce count?

>Does Banner of Truce count?

I don't think so. BoT is utility because it doesn't cause harm or facilitate the causing of harm, and it does nothing to help training. It's a great triage/save spell, but not one I'd call an AoE debil.

>TBH sounds like an expanded version of Crusader's Challenge.

It really could be. CRC would be better if it worked like that: brought things at melee and kept them there, although I'd really like some sort of debilitation component like the knockdown (or something else).

The following all been posted before, but please permit me a small CRC complaint in case this suggestion were to be considered a CRC option.

• The contest for CRC kinda sucks, especially for an esoteric spell. Esoteric + the only charm contest we have almost ensures most paladins are never going to be able to use the taunt effectively at-level. I could be wrong, but I think this is still the only guild that uses every kind of magic contest looking only at the offensive portion.
• The spell has a sort of invisible cooldown, which is triggered even when the spell does nothing, and there's no indication of when the taunt will be available again; there's no messaging telling you when the taunt's available again or fails during cooldown.
• It's a 100 mana battle spell... So, if you've got the ~1k (tertiary) magic skill to get any real duration out of the spell, it's likely going to fall off before you can get any mileage out of it and it's going to teach relatively poorly because it's a battles spell. Because it's esoteric, I think it's still 100 mana in 3.2, making it worse in 3.2 in terms of opportunity cost.

For most, CRC is a very short duration esoteric Tactics buff. I've tried hard to use it as often as possible because I really want to love this spell.

Spell idea: Visage of the Lion
Contest type: Charm vs Willpower
Difficulty: Esoteric (signature)
Limitations: Only works (and checks) intelligent creatures. It either succeeds for everything facing you or fails. One dissenter can cause a riot.
Modifier: High soul state makes it easier to cast, low soul state makes it more likely to backfire.
Description: You call upon Chadatru to bless you with his image, striking fear or humility in all around you, but be warned. If you find yourself unworthy in soul or might, Chadatru may abandon you to your fate.

(Messaging)
Extreme success: You gaze upon your subjects and declare your divine right. Your foes kneel and offer homage to their king.
Moderate success: You raise your [right hand | fist] and command obedience. Your foes begrudgingly accept your prescience.
Neutral: You call upon your divine right. Your foes falter in their advance, but they are unwilling to pledge fealty.
Moderate failure: Like an exiled king, you declare yourself sovereign over those who hate you. They show their anger in the only way they know.
Extreme failure: Your foes mock your disgraceful attempt at a coup before rushing you in a blur of anger and indignation.

(Effect)
Extreme success: Every creature at melee, pole, and range (facing you) lowers their weapon and kneels before you. Immobile, kneeling, and without weapons until the effect ends or they're released.
Moderate success: Every creature at melee and pole lowers their weapon and kneels before you. Immobile until the effect ends or they're released.
Neutral: Stop advancing foes. Immobility if at melee (1-2 seconds)
Moderate failure: It's like you just combat logged, plus you fall to your knees. RT, and free a free hit.
Extreme failure: Same as above, but you're knocked over and suffer a large RT.

Easter egg: Extreme failure can occasionally summon a peasant with a very sharp pitchfork, great hiding skill, and with comments of regicide and oppression. It's not a good day to be king. Extreme success can sometimes create a tax collector that periodically gives you random coins (timer, can be killed but not looted).

You take a soul hit if you attack them while they're offering homage, but you can "release visage" or "release <target>" to release one or all of them from their bonds of servitude.

> I liked it up until the part you remembered it was a Paladin spell so it had to have some punishment attached to it.

It kind of goes both ways though, at least with this one idea. The soul state effectively gives them a decent primary magic buff as a magic tert. That's a buff. They can also create a macro to release <mob> and then attack <mob>. That's effectively a buff that just requires a little though/pre-thought to keep from hitting the penalty.

I'm really not crazy about any esoteric charm SvS. It's not just about no charisma buff, but I'd be lying if I said that isn't part of it. Disc is still considered a super stat and just about everyone recommends pumping wis and intel to new players, so charm vs will is naturally weighted toward the defender by virtue of the fact that everyone emphasizes will stats. Also consider that all other paladin debilitation spells use either mind, magic or spirit contests, and the others are an easier difficulty. Plus, which is the most common SvS ward? I think it's will.

So, add a new esoteric charm v. will debil... Now which stat do you advise any paladin to prioritize? Probably still will and physical stats over charisma. I certainly do and would. Esoteric difficulty just adds insult to injury because you can't easily benefit from pumping mana into an esoteric spell as a magic tert. We're talking literally years before you can cap the spell, which is probably fine for any contest but charm v. will.

Having a charm spell doesn't make paladins excited to train charisma; it just makes people dislike the spell because they can't use it because they trained stats for all other contests and more useful training effects, especially when v. will. That was true for barbs when all their roars were fear contests and they had/have better ways of buffing roars than we have of buffing our charm contest.

I'd be happy if our charm debilitations went away in favor of more spirit attacks. I think it's more theme-appropriate and useful. This isn't about the spell suggestion above, which I think is a cool one sans the punishment. I'm just addressing the contest itself as a paladin contest. I had trouble with CRC even when my character's charisma matched his intel/wisdom.

>>Is there really a situation where you will want to use AOE debilitation spells in PvP as a magic tert?<<

You might want to use AOE against a stealthy opponent, for instance, since you'll be able to hit them without seeing them.

Mazrian