So... I've been reading up on the 'pedia and there are a lot of suggestions to get some of the Analogous Pattern spells. I don't really get how they work though, and the 'pedia just isn't making it clear for me. So... I have a two parter.
1.) What Analogous Pattern spells would be useful to a Paladin (one who really isn't super interested in magic, but uses it in a fairly utilitarian fashion)?
2.) How does one go about learning said spells? It seems they are on scrolls, but also require spell slots? And then there is something called a scroll slot? Are those two different things?
Thanks in advance,
-D
DALESHAN
LENNONJON
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 08:40 PM CDT
Analogous patters just cost spell slots, not "scroll slots". Scroll slots are for spell scrolls of other guilds, and you need the correct magical techniques for them.
As far as which one's are useful. I have Ease Burden [ease], Lay Ward [lw], Manifest Force [maf], Dispel, and Gauge Flow [gaf]. I don't think I've ever used dispel, but don't really PvP. The other one's I use quite often, especially in invasion situations or when moving to a new mob to hunt.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
As far as which one's are useful. I have Ease Burden [ease], Lay Ward [lw], Manifest Force [maf], Dispel, and Gauge Flow [gaf]. I don't think I've ever used dispel, but don't really PvP. The other one's I use quite often, especially in invasion situations or when moving to a new mob to hunt.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
BADGOPHER
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 08:46 PM CDT
1) I find strange arrow the most useful for my paladin, because I don't like the 'must have a weapon out' requirement for footman's strike. Paladins generally have low level access to warding, augmentation, TM, and debilitation which are quite good (Aspirants aegis, heroic strength, footman's strike, stun foe respectively). All of these require 1 spell slot and 0 ranks to be able to cast. Paladins can get hands of Justice (which will require 20 ranks of utility) or vessel of salvation (which requires 2 spell slots), so the utility skill is a bit less awesome. Personally I go, roughly in this order:
Level 1: AA and ease burden
Level 3: Pick up HES, drop ease, pick up STRA
Level 5: Stun foe
Level 7: hold the slot
Level 9: pick up VoS.
Basically sets me up for the rest of my career, and anything else I pick after that is an improvement. I'll pick up footman's strike at some point just to get rebuke and smite horde, but I'm in no real rush.
2) AP spells can be learned in two manners. You can temporarily memorize one by invoking it. This will use a 'scroll slot'. Every magic user has 1 scroll slot (you can obtain 1 additional with magic feats), which can be filled with any temporarily invoked spell you can read. There are several things which can clear the scroll slot, such as death or a sorcery backlash.
The other option is to permanently learn a spell scroll. To do this you would need spell slots open, just like you were going to pick up a spell from Verika. You read then study the scroll instead of invoking it. There are limitations on which spells you can permanently learn, they either need to be AP spells, or something from your guild.
You can find spell scrolls in many places. They're in the loot system, though I honestly think that they don't drop until you encounter something like sand sprites, or say a critter that takes about 100 ranks to hunt safely. You can also buy a few of the AP spells from the crossings magic shop; they're on a stand.
One thing to note is that Paladins, as magic tert, don't get a ton of spell slots. Using the scroll slot is a really good idea, though certainly not mandatory.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Spell_scrolls
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Herilo%27s_Artifacts
Level 1: AA and ease burden
Level 3: Pick up HES, drop ease, pick up STRA
Level 5: Stun foe
Level 7: hold the slot
Level 9: pick up VoS.
Basically sets me up for the rest of my career, and anything else I pick after that is an improvement. I'll pick up footman's strike at some point just to get rebuke and smite horde, but I'm in no real rush.
2) AP spells can be learned in two manners. You can temporarily memorize one by invoking it. This will use a 'scroll slot'. Every magic user has 1 scroll slot (you can obtain 1 additional with magic feats), which can be filled with any temporarily invoked spell you can read. There are several things which can clear the scroll slot, such as death or a sorcery backlash.
The other option is to permanently learn a spell scroll. To do this you would need spell slots open, just like you were going to pick up a spell from Verika. You read then study the scroll instead of invoking it. There are limitations on which spells you can permanently learn, they either need to be AP spells, or something from your guild.
You can find spell scrolls in many places. They're in the loot system, though I honestly think that they don't drop until you encounter something like sand sprites, or say a critter that takes about 100 ranks to hunt safely. You can also buy a few of the AP spells from the crossings magic shop; they're on a stand.
One thing to note is that Paladins, as magic tert, don't get a ton of spell slots. Using the scroll slot is a really good idea, though certainly not mandatory.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Spell_scrolls
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Herilo%27s_Artifacts
LENNONJON
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 08:56 PM CDT
>AP spells can be learned in two manners. You can temporarily memorize one by invoking it. This will use a 'scroll slot'. Every magic user has 1 scroll slot (you can obtain 1 additional with magic feats), which can be filled with any temporarily invoked spell you can read. There are several things which can clear the scroll slot, such as death or a sorcery backlash. <
Ahh I forgot you could do this. Thanks for the clarification.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
Ahh I forgot you could do this. Thanks for the clarification.
--Just a Squire
Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
ISHARON
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 09:16 PM CDT
>>Daleshan: 1.) What Analogous Pattern spells would be useful to a Paladin (one who really isn't super interested in magic, but uses it in a fairly utilitarian fashion)?
As a Paladin, I recommend Strange Arrow, Manifest Force, and Lay Ward. Gauge Flow is also a good choice if you want to use the magical research system.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Category:Analogous_Patterns_Spellbook
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
As a Paladin, I recommend Strange Arrow, Manifest Force, and Lay Ward. Gauge Flow is also a good choice if you want to use the magical research system.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Category:Analogous_Patterns_Spellbook
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
ASHAMAN1
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 09:38 PM CDT
>>In the chapter entitled "Analogous Patterns", you have notes on the Lay Ward [lw], Manifest Force [maf], Dispel, Imbue, and Gauge Flow [gaf] spells.
I lean a different direction, I prefer using either Sorcery TM (warmie spells usually) or Rebuke, with such in mind I have the above spells. Dispel is pretty niche-y, and Imbue I learned for enchanting one day as a placeholder so I didn't run out of slots.
Samsaren
I lean a different direction, I prefer using either Sorcery TM (warmie spells usually) or Rebuke, with such in mind I have the above spells. Dispel is pretty niche-y, and Imbue I learned for enchanting one day as a placeholder so I didn't run out of slots.
Samsaren
DALESHAN
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 09:54 PM CDT
Thank you all for the quick and quite helpful responses. Seems like Strange Arrow, Manifest Force and Lay Ward are the common denominators so I'll definitely be looking into those.
> Isharon: Gauge Flow is also a good choice if you want to use the magical research system.
What is the magical research system? Probably something I could look up on elanthipedia, right? So much studying...
Thank you all again!
-D
> Isharon: Gauge Flow is also a good choice if you want to use the magical research system.
What is the magical research system? Probably something I could look up on elanthipedia, right? So much studying...
Thank you all again!
-D
2DUMBARSE
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 10:00 PM CDT
Really, only MAF, LW are essential. LW makes it so you never need to worry about hunting creatures that cast at you. MAF makes it so you never need to worry about hunting... Anything in your skill range. Those two spells are too good, in fact, which is why they're getting nerfed at some point.
Dispel is handy because it can be used offensively and defensively, and it can be used as a backup for TR which is difficult to maintain. You have to pick one among GAF, STRA and Ease to get to the barriers. FST and Rebuke satisfy my TM needs and ease is rendered unnecessary by HES and courage, so I went with GAF. Plus, research really comes in handy for training and studying it frees up my scroll slots for useful cleric spells.
That was my choice for the first AP spell, but there are reasons to pick STRA (TM spell that has an elemental component, which none of ours have) and ease (useful for lower circle characters). You can also carry around a bunch of scrolls for spells like GAF as backups in case you want to use more than one but don't want to waste your slots.
Dispel is handy because it can be used offensively and defensively, and it can be used as a backup for TR which is difficult to maintain. You have to pick one among GAF, STRA and Ease to get to the barriers. FST and Rebuke satisfy my TM needs and ease is rendered unnecessary by HES and courage, so I went with GAF. Plus, research really comes in handy for training and studying it frees up my scroll slots for useful cleric spells.
That was my choice for the first AP spell, but there are reasons to pick STRA (TM spell that has an elemental component, which none of ours have) and ease (useful for lower circle characters). You can also carry around a bunch of scrolls for spells like GAF as backups in case you want to use more than one but don't want to waste your slots.
DALESHAN
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 10:13 PM CDT
I do already have Footman's Strike and I was planning on going for Rebuke, so I'm not as worried about picking up Strange Arrow right away. Needing one of the three as a pre-req makes the decision a little tougher though. I don't really ever need encumbrance help (I'm something of a minimalist), and I don't know enough about magical research yet to know if I'm going to get invested with this character. I'm looking forward to reading up on it though.
Sounds like MAF and LW are going to be key though, so I'll have to get those... how does Soldier's Prayer compare to Lay Ward? I think both are defense against magic? Sorry for all the questions, I'm only just now really delving into this side of the character and I'm trying to learn as much as I can at once.
-D
Sounds like MAF and LW are going to be key though, so I'll have to get those... how does Soldier's Prayer compare to Lay Ward? I think both are defense against magic? Sorry for all the questions, I'm only just now really delving into this side of the character and I'm trying to learn as much as I can at once.
-D
2DUMBARSE
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/16/2015 11:07 PM CDT
>how does Soldier's Prayer compare to Lay Ward? I think both are defense against magic?
I like LW better because it isn't ablative and isn't affected by your spells. SP is strong but it can be torn down very quickly and weakens outgoing spells as well as incoming spells.
An arthelun cabalist gestures at you.
You feel a wash of heat as a spell shatters against your ward.
That's LW. I can stance down and the spells will never hit me while I have LW up.
I like LW better because it isn't ablative and isn't affected by your spells. SP is strong but it can be torn down very quickly and weakens outgoing spells as well as incoming spells.
An arthelun cabalist gestures at you.
You feel a wash of heat as a spell shatters against your ward.
That's LW. I can stance down and the spells will never hit me while I have LW up.
ISHARON
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/17/2015 01:06 AM CDT
>>Daleshan: What is the magical research system? Probably something I could look up on elanthipedia, right? So much studying...
Magical research can be performed while Gauge Flow is active. (The more mana you put into Gauge Flow, the less time research projects take to complete.)
Magical research bridges spellbook gaps for those guilds that may not have useful spells for every skill for every rung of teaching. There are two main components of magical research.
The first is simply a list projects that you can research to train the non-combat magic research. You do not gain any experience until the entire project is complete, and while performing research, there are many activities you can't do. This is good for people who want to avoid wasting spell slots on spells that they don't really want just so that they can train skills. It's good for people who don't want to repeatedly cast the same spell over and over again. Lastly, it's good for using during events where you may not be able to (or want to) spam the room with spell-casting.
The second is symbiotic casting. Once you research a symbiosis, you can add it to your spell preps. This makes the spell a lot more difficult to cast, making it easier to train magic skills at high levels of skill without needing obscene amounts of mana. If you invest in the research feats, casting with those symbioses will also add a single stat or skill buff to your spell.
Details: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magical_research
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Magical research can be performed while Gauge Flow is active. (The more mana you put into Gauge Flow, the less time research projects take to complete.)
Magical research bridges spellbook gaps for those guilds that may not have useful spells for every skill for every rung of teaching. There are two main components of magical research.
The first is simply a list projects that you can research to train the non-combat magic research. You do not gain any experience until the entire project is complete, and while performing research, there are many activities you can't do. This is good for people who want to avoid wasting spell slots on spells that they don't really want just so that they can train skills. It's good for people who don't want to repeatedly cast the same spell over and over again. Lastly, it's good for using during events where you may not be able to (or want to) spam the room with spell-casting.
The second is symbiotic casting. Once you research a symbiosis, you can add it to your spell preps. This makes the spell a lot more difficult to cast, making it easier to train magic skills at high levels of skill without needing obscene amounts of mana. If you invest in the research feats, casting with those symbioses will also add a single stat or skill buff to your spell.
Details: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Magical_research
Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall rank!
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
BADGOPHER
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/17/2015 07:37 AM CDT
>Needing one of the three as a pre-req makes the decision a little tougher though.
If you're talking about GAF here, I don't believe you need to have learned any of the pre-reqs to be able to keep that spell in a scroll slot; you only need the pre-reqs if you're going to permanently learn a spell.
Unless I'm wrong, and if I am, someone please correct me!
Also, MAF will take 50-60 ranks of arcana to invoke, as will GAF. They're good once you're set on using them, but I'm not sure what level you are (somewhere between 20th and 60th I'd guess).
If you're talking about GAF here, I don't believe you need to have learned any of the pre-reqs to be able to keep that spell in a scroll slot; you only need the pre-reqs if you're going to permanently learn a spell.
Unless I'm wrong, and if I am, someone please correct me!
Also, MAF will take 50-60 ranks of arcana to invoke, as will GAF. They're good once you're set on using them, but I'm not sure what level you are (somewhere between 20th and 60th I'd guess).
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/17/2015 09:56 AM CDT
>>> I don't know enough about magical research yet to know if I'm going to get invested with this character. I'm looking forward to reading up on it though.
Personally, I recommend learning GAF if you can spare the spell slots. Since you need to choose EASE, STRA or GAF to get the later spells anyway, GAF only costs you one more spell slot than you already need to spend to learn LW and MAF and, in exchange, you can use Research. Research will allow you to learn magic while doing other things (like forging or RPing) and frees you from needing to worry about having spells to learn each noncombat magic skill. Furthermore it allows you to learn magic without using your attunement (beyond casting GAF once), which can simplify training.
DALESHAN
Re: Analogous Pattern Spells
04/17/2015 07:29 PM CDT
>Research will allow you to learn magic while doing other things (like forging or RPing) and frees you from needing to worry about having spells to learn each noncombat magic skill. Furthermore it allows you to learn magic without using your attunement (beyond casting GAF once), which can simplify training.
This sounds like a great idea then. I don't mind casting over and over again... but if I didn't have to, it'd be great! Sounds like something to start investing in then!
This sounds like a great idea then. I don't mind casting over and over again... but if I didn't have to, it'd be great! Sounds like something to start investing in then!
