QoL Fixes and You 01/11/2016 07:29 PM CST
I've gotten approval to make some minor QoL fixes to Glyphs, and Raesh suggested I ask you for suggestions. Don't worry, Glyph of Light is on my list, and that's the biggest thing I plan to work on. I've also noticed some typos, and places messaging could be clearer.

If you have any specific, minor issues with the quests let me know and I'll see if it fits into this round of changes. Any help is much appreciated!

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/11/2016 08:46 PM CST
>>DR-Javac: If you have any specific, minor issues with the quests let me know and I'll see if it fits into this round of changes. Any help is much appreciated!

Are holy weapons within the scope of this project (since they are recharged with the Glyph of Renew)? If so, I would like to reiterate some badly needed quality-of-life changes.

What I would most like to see is the removal of the penalty for allowing your weapon to run out of charges. Currently, if you allow the weapon to run out of charges, it has to be recharged twice before you can use it again. It takes five minutes to recharge the weapon, and there is a one-hour timer between rechargings. If you make the mistake of using the weapon between those two rechargings, you have to start over.

This, combined with the scarcity of recharging locations, is an onerous system that discourages Paladins from using their holy weapons. (Who wants to count charges while hunting?) Holy weapons should only require one recharging before being fully usable. Holy weapons that have run out of charges would continue to function as standard weapons until they are recharged.

I would also like to see more recharging locations and/or a release of additional portable recharging icons.

Lastly, I think that the holy weapon changing quest (which can be done once every 365 days) should not destroy the previous weapon. This would allow Paladins to use special weapons without worrying about losing them if they decide to change their holy weapons later.



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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/11/2016 11:54 PM CST
>>If you have any specific, minor issues with the quests let me know and I'll see if it fits into this round of changes. Any help is much appreciated!

For the GoLight quest in particular, I figure if you change the blacklist of things you can't do while on the quest to SAY/WHISPER/THINK and any non-retreat-related combat verbs you'd become a hero.



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 12:10 AM CST
Is digging and joining on your list for Glyph of Light?

If you don't have sufficient athletics the mud on the NTR can cause you to fail if you get stuck and try to dig out.

The act of Joining the Sea Mammoths results in failure.



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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 12:20 AM CST
A paladin asked if it would be possible for Glyph of Bonding to be traced on a corpse (as an addition to the current weapon tracing) to recover their weapon from another room. Apparently in invasions with the scroll and invader weapons all over the ground it can be confusing to trace the correct one while dodging invaders and dragging the body.



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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 01:53 AM CST
>>Teveshszat: For the GoLight quest in particular, I figure if you change the blacklist of things you can't do while on the quest to SAY/WHISPER/THINK and any non-retreat-related combat verbs you'd become a hero.

It's been years since I did the quest, so I can't confirm whether this is true, but I seem to recall having to redo the quest because I made the mistake of using the DIR command to return to the guildhall once I arrived in Crossing. (This was when I had a DIR-based travel script for use in Crossing and Riverhaven.)


>>Flint-Tipped: A paladin asked if it would be possible for Glyph of Bonding to be traced on a corpse (as an addition to the current weapon tracing) to recover their weapon from another room. Apparently in invasions with the scroll and invader weapons all over the ground it can be confusing to trace the correct one while dodging invaders and dragging the body.

+1



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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 08:56 AM CST
Thanks for working on this for us, Javac.

I can't speak to the glyph quests because I haven't done them in years, but I can offer the following as issues with some of the glyphs, many of which are just a product of their age.

* Warding (prevents aiming against the living and protects deaders' stuff if traced on the dead) - Dead PCs seem to desire this one little these days since favors are easy to obtain and depart options make grave robbing less of a concern. I use it more against the living in PvP. However, although people say it works against TM, I have a hard time seeing the difference when I use ward against a spell. It very clearly works against mundane ranged weapons.

* Bonding (returns weapons to dead people) - I very rarely use this one these days because people usually use weapons they're perfectly willing to lose when it isn't something rare, in which case it's seemingly always registered and bound with a bonding potion.

* Light (perception + night vision) - I love light in its current form. At least in terms of function, I think it's fine. I mean, if I could want anything more from Light, it would be a constant bonus through its duration or maybe a longer duration at cap.

* Mana (raise power for holy) - Same. Glyph of Mana rocks.

* Ease (fatigue replenishment + weight reduction on corpses) - I never use it for the weight reduction these days and the fatigue component scales very poorly. I think I get ~2% less tired when I use it. Its use is not worth the soul pool cost.

* Renew (holy weapon) - Same stuff Isharon mentioned. The easiest solution, although probably outside the scope, might be making icons more available outside paid quests, even if they're less potent than the quest versions.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 11:19 AM CST
>A paladin asked if it would be possible for Glyph of Bonding to be traced on a corpse (as an addition to the current weapon tracing) to recover their weapon from another room. Apparently in invasions with the scroll and invader weapons all over the ground it can be confusing to trace the correct one while dodging invaders and dragging the body.

Thank you for working on glyphs. In connection with this idea if would also be helpful if you could type 'Trace Glyph Bonding (Name) Weapon or something like that. Meaning it would be wonderful to not have to search through the scroll to see exactly what type of weapon needs to be bonded.


- Felicini
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 11:39 AM CST
Thanks for looking into quests.

>Same stuff Isharon mentioned. The easiest solution, although probably outside the scope, might be making icons more available outside paid quests, even if they're less potent than the quest versions.<

Maybe some sort of quest where Paladins can turn an item into a portable recharger? Maybe tack it onto the Holy weapon quest that currently exists. Just spitballing: You bring not only a weapon with you, but also an item that forms a bond between the holy weapon altar and the weapon itself. You can then use this item to tap into this bond to recharge the holy weapon.

--Just a Squire

Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 12:11 PM CST
My main problem with glyphs is duration and effect. I would like to see duration and potency of glyphs go up with circle.
Just some thoughts of specific glyphs
Glyph of Bonding is probably the least used glyph
Glyph of light is meh duration is better than most the other glyphs but still i dont use it very often.
Glyph of mana is not very worthwhile overall I use it sometimes when I am hunting in a low mana room. Duration is not very good i think I get maybe 10-20 mins
Glyph of ease is pretty crappy when used on yourself (the fatigue it replenishes sucks for the cost)
Glyph of renewal and holy weapon in general: would be nice to make recharging easier and the ability to switch holy weapons easier
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 12:23 PM CST
>Glyph of light is meh duration is better than most the other glyphs but still i dont use it very often.
Glyph of mana is not very worthwhile overall I use it sometimes when I am hunting in a low mana room. Duration is not very good i think I get maybe 10-20 mins <

I tend to disagree on these points.

I use GOM while hunting and it lasts about 25 minutes, which I think is spot-on given it's soul-pool cost.
I only use GOL occasionally, but again it lasts about 25 minutes. This seems pretty much on par with automatic abilities of other guilds.

--Just a Squire

Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 01:14 PM CST
While I can't really complain about glyph durations either, I don't think MU ability durations are as standardized as spell durations, although it would make sense if they were. Meraud's commune, for instance, which is like GoM, seems to last forever late game.

On GoM, one QoL thing that would be great, although again not a quest thing, is if it followed the paladin who traces it. Right now it just fades if the paladin who traced it walks to another room. GoL replaceability would be cool, too. Its potency dips with time, but it's not replaceable or refreshable, which is a minor inconvenience for sparring events.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 02:29 PM CST
Glyph of Light I'm making the blacklist talking and getting rid of the torch (I hope). This was implemented so many years ago, and in a really odd way.

Glyph of Ease, I'm guessing it's Fatigue regeneration got severely broken with 3.0 increasing Fatigue pools. Any ideas what it was giving before 3.0?

Glyph of Bonding, I'll see what I can do about tracing it on the dead person but this may not be straight forward.

Glyph of Warding vs Living, I'll investigate to see if/why it's not working for TARGET.

Holy Weapons are probably going to need their own investigation, so let's leave them out of this round of fixes. I'll try to think up something to make recharging a little less painfully restricted.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 04:33 PM CST
Could GoM have options for static room glyph raising holy mana for all holy mages and a self glyph option for raising only your sensitivity to holy streams and taking the glyph with you on the run? That way you'd have applications for triage/group hunting as well as PvP.



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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 04:35 PM CST
<3

>Glyph of Ease, I'm guessing it's Fatigue regeneration got severely broken with 3.0 increasing Fatigue pools. Any ideas what it was giving before 3.0?

It's hard to remember, but it was a large bump (offset by usage limit/timer).
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/12/2016 04:45 PM CST
I think Glyph of Ease would be better if it had a decent duration which pulsed every minute or so.
I think the pulse should be relative to the player
I do not recall what the chunk was pre 3.0
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/14/2016 06:25 PM CST
Glyph of Light

Profile... which sucks if your on genie, because well you may have a set up for anyone that dies to have their profile checked. I failed a couple times before I realized that was what I was doing wrong.

---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS

---
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/18/2016 11:38 PM CST
I really don't want to be the dark raincloud, because I hate to say someone's work isn't valuable. And I've put a good amount of work into my Paladin, even though he's not my main.

Honestly, though, I find the glyph system uninspiring and their existence had literally nothing to do with my making a Paladin. I think Glyph of Light is the only one I've used, ever? I'm also not fond in general of abilities that feel like spells, but just don't cost any mana, such as glyphs and beseeches. I think they sell the magic tert guilds short on abilities and blur the lines in a bad way between them and more magic focused guilds.

The only way I'd be in favor of work on Glyphs is if we were assured that when the promised slate of Paladin development comes that the glyphs won't "count against" Paladins when making the determination of if they have "enough" in the way of non-spell abilities. In other words, I'm ok with keeping them for legacy reasons and putting a bit of a shine on them if that's the reason why, but if I'm choosing between Gylphs and "start from scratch", I'd choose "start from scratch."

That said, thank you for giving the Paladin guild some attention, Javac.

- Saragos
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/19/2016 07:27 AM CST
>>I'm also not fond in general of abilities that feel like spells, but just don't cost any mana, such as glyphs and beseeches.

I also have... qualms with this sort of ability, and I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to convert them to the sort of pseudo-magic that the Barbarians got. Maybe convert glyphs into prep/cast spells that also have a soul pool component. I don't know the policy on ability potency relative to power source, but I do wonder if they couldn't be beefier if they were processed through the magic skillset.

Otherwise, I haven't had a higher-circle Paladin in probably a decade, so I have no meaningful input on the QOL changes, except that I've always liked the concept aesthetically.

~Kashik
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/19/2016 01:08 PM CST
I have to disagree with the previous two posters. I like glyphs. I think they fit perfectly into the Paladin lore: holy symbols taught by the immortals that tie to a Paladins soul. Could they overall be beefier? Absolutely. Do they need to be tied to the magic system? Absolutely not.

What glyphs need are dual effects when used one self or others. Some effects could aid others, some not aid. Some glyphs already have this.

Warding: Protect a grave, prevent targetted/aimed attacks. This glyph is fine as is.

Bonding: Return an item to a dead person's hand. Needs a self-effect. Perhaps bond weapon to self for an "invoke" ability while it is in effect. Allows us to ditch the Bond Weapon spell and open up some spell slots.

Light: +Perception skill, light source. Good as is, but needs a secondary effect. Perhaps give it the effect of disorienting/blinding an opponent messing up their balance (with some sort of skill check and a cool down so it can't be overused).

Mana: Raises Holy mana. Great as is. I use it throughout my hunting. Could use a secondary effect. Perhaps reduces available mana when traced on someone non-holy (with some sort of skill check and a cool down so it can't be overused).

Ease: +Fatigue regeneration, makes corpse easier to drag - Not very useful, but not everything has to be used all the time. Perhaps make a self-trace of it increase a chosen stat. E.g., Glyph ease health, Glyph ease stamina, Glyph ease spirit. Make this work on both self and others.

Renewal: Recharge Holy weapon. Great, does what it's supposed to. A secondary effect of this is difficult because it is a ritualistic glyph (i.e., have to pray, etc.). But how about when we do the ritual we have a timer in which we can use the glyph on someone else. If traced on someone from a holy guild it gives them an offensive/defensive boost against the undead. If traced on a non-holy guild it boosts their offense against the undead. If used on a Necromancer if hurts them in some way.

The point is, I like the concept of glyphs. They are holy symbols taught to a Paladin by the immortals. They are what foundationally made Paladins Holy Warriors. Even though Clerics have slowly been stealing this part of our guild identity, the legacy is still there and we can expand upon it. I don't want to become the Barbarian in plate guild.

--Just a Squire

Riveted to the metal is a small copper plaque depicting a shield crossed with a longsword overlaying a field of thirteen stars. Encircling the design are the words, "Many Faces - One God."
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/19/2016 01:38 PM CST
I would like to see glyphs that boosts mana regeneration or maybe a invigoration buff that boosts stamina or maybe a glyph that searches the area and can knock hiders out of hiding.

Just throwing some ideas around.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/19/2016 04:05 PM CST
Guys, I'm not rewriting the whole system (yet). Raesh and I are talking about a more comprehensive overview, but this is to fix things like typos and quests that are stupidly restricting and Glyphs that no longer function due to system changes years ago...

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/19/2016 04:58 PM CST
You have to be patient with paladins - we're an odd bunch at best.

Samsaren
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/20/2016 08:45 PM CST
Alright, everybody. First round of changes are in!

- Glyph of Ease was updated to use a percent rather than hard numbers. The upside is that it is now actually possible to hit the maximum fatigue recovery again. This is heavily weighted towards Charisma, but circle also plays a role.
- The Glyph of Light quest now only penalizes you for attempting to communicate (SAY, THINK, WHISPER) or get rid of the torch.
- Guildleaders other than Snow will point you towards the Tower of Honor rather than just a soulstone arch.
- Fixed a typo.

This is live in Prime and Plat. TF will follow if you don't break everything horribly with your new found Dev attention.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/20/2016 08:49 PM CST
Out of curiosity, does the OOC verb still work during the Glyph of Light quest despite being a dressed up WHISPER? What about CHATTER?



Thayet
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/20/2016 08:51 PM CST
Pretty sure OOC and CHATTER will work, but I'd have to test.

Javac
That one guy

If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/20/2016 09:01 PM CST
Cool. Thank you for these updates. Can't wait to play with it. :>



Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/20/2016 09:33 PM CST
That's really spiffy.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 01/21/2016 08:49 AM CST
Thanks very much, Javac.

Ease is MUCH better. I'm getting ~15% back with 70 charisma.

Oh! Would you guys consider making the cool down on ease scale down with charisma as well? Sorry, I don't mean to be a pain... I just ran into the timer while typing this and testing ease with 100 and 120 (courage) stam and thought it'd be neat. There's no way we could reliably spam it even if the timer were fairly low since it draws on soul pool.
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 06/29/2016 08:01 PM CDT
>- Guildleaders other than Snow will point you towards the Tower of Honor rather than just a soulstone arch.

I completed this quest in the last few days, but I'm almost certain that Verika still says "here", and doesn't mention the Tower of Honor or Shard. I explored the Crossing guild for quite a while before catching up on enough of the Paladin boards to determine it meant Shard. Would you double check that this change went live, please?
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Re: QoL Fixes and You 06/29/2016 09:52 PM CDT
Just for your information, this is from a log that I found that showed the initial speech she gave me.

>ask verika about magic

Lady Verika turns to you and speaks, "Congratulations Kuqalrin, you have reached a milestone in your training. When I deem a paladin ready, I will sometimes give the worthy knight in training a task to perform, through which a better understanding of the principles of our order can be achieved."

The paladin continues, "While my first task in relatively simple. do not take it lightly, and rest assured that as your training progresses, your quests will become more involved and difficult. Find here the soulstone orb, and focus your mind on its powers. If you are found worthy, you will be rewarded but your responsibility will increase accordingly. Good luck!"

Here is what she said later:

>ask verika about quest
Lady Verika looks at you and says slowly, "You wish to know more of the simple quest I gave you? Ahh well, if you did not listen well enough the first time... Seek the white orb through the soulstone arch and focus upon its powers. If found worthy, you will have your reward."
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