Howdy!
I have read where you (Armifer) have talked about changes down to the road to make the Armor skillset more appealing. My question is, are those part of this round of changes to Paladins, or will be apart of Paladin 2.0 or Armor something.0 at a late time and date?
Apologies if that feels like I am trying to nail down dates, I know better. Just wondering if it'd be like Paladin Core Changes -> Armor changes -> Other projects or Paladin Core Changes -> Other Projects -> Armor.
I have been really enjoying following the lore and mechanical changes, and they have me excited.
Thanks!
UFTIMF2P
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Scope of changes?
01/08/2018 05:03 PM CST
>>I have read where you (Armifer) have talked about changes down to the road to make the Armor skillset more appealing. My question is, are those part of this round of changes to Paladins, or will be apart of Paladin 2.0 or Armor something.0 at a late time and date?
I am not doing Armor something.0, I intend to try to make armor skills beyond Plate and Shield more appealing to Paladins as part of the Paladin work I'm doing this year. While we've been talking internally about stretching some of what I have planned to give Armor Secondaries a bone, that's undetermined at the moment.
In either event, I am not planning to change how armor fundamentally works. There's substantial design and technical hurdles doing that and I cannot take it on this year.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I am not doing Armor something.0, I intend to try to make armor skills beyond Plate and Shield more appealing to Paladins as part of the Paladin work I'm doing this year. While we've been talking internally about stretching some of what I have planned to give Armor Secondaries a bone, that's undetermined at the moment.
In either event, I am not planning to change how armor fundamentally works. There's substantial design and technical hurdles doing that and I cannot take it on this year.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
UFTIMF2P
Re: Scope of changes?
01/08/2018 07:05 PM CST
Appreciate your response. Your communication and coding are very much appreciated.
Just because I am kind of dense and did not word well, is this still part of the plan?
> Your spells need work. Glyphs need a ton of work. Sacred Insight needs a complete reconceptualization. The Paladin guildskill needs to be activated and the *Armor skillset needs to gain active abilities.*
Is it still the plan to enhance armor with active abilities before switching your primary focus?
Sorry for not wording it well my first go around.
Just because I am kind of dense and did not word well, is this still part of the plan?
> Your spells need work. Glyphs need a ton of work. Sacred Insight needs a complete reconceptualization. The Paladin guildskill needs to be activated and the *Armor skillset needs to gain active abilities.*
Is it still the plan to enhance armor with active abilities before switching your primary focus?
Sorry for not wording it well my first go around.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Scope of changes?
01/08/2018 08:01 PM CST
>>s it still the plan to enhance armor with active abilities before switching your primary focus?
Yeah, active armor abilities is planned, but it's sort of a stretch goal. Not the last thing on my list, but the last major thing.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Yeah, active armor abilities is planned, but it's sort of a stretch goal. Not the last thing on my list, but the last major thing.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
GORTEOUS
Re: Scope of changes?
01/11/2018 11:27 AM CST
>> I am not doing Armor something.0, I intend to try to make armor skills beyond Plate and Shield more appealing to Paladins as part of the Paladin work I'm doing this year. While we've been talking internally about stretching some of what I have planned to give Armor Secondaries a bone, that's undetermined at the moment.
I would take the long view here and consider: when armors do eventually get tweaked, seeing as how virtually no one outside of Paladins currently use anything heavier than chain, it would be, I think, good planning to try to foresee how these changes will impact future Paladin perks. From a systemic point of view, if the goal is to encourage people to wear the heavier stuff, and you cannot foresee making it more difficult for non-primes to wear heavy armor(since we are currently sitting at ~0, I personally cannot), then I think it's worth considering that future changes will drift in that direction and to weigh the deck appropriately. They are both issues, but one doesn't have to enable the other down the road.
Based on the current model, I would propose a tiered perk system where you get x number of points to invest towards "armor perks". In this hypothetical system, Primes can go four branches in and get the most points, secondaries can go three branches with scaled points, terts go two branches. All guilds could be brought in line in this manner and you would have a system where it is relatively easy to weigh costs vs benefits without going too far down the thematics rabbit-hole, along with the ease of "special-casing" guilds for perks that are thematically specific to individual guilds.
One perk I would suggest would be an armored charge with the idea being, if Paladins can move with supernatural grace in heavy armor, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do a full-clad sprint at their opponents, like berserkers in loincloths. I think a plate armor body/shield slam with a high tohit bonus that stuns on a successful SvF would be a neat way to "override" the current problem with retreating somewhat. If you really want to get nefarious with it, branch STALK mechanics into it so that even if they leave the room and run away, if they don't run fast enough, you 'catch up' with them, along with all the latent force that has caught up with you in the process - a couple football fields worth of SMASH and CRASH (friends 4 lyfe, amirite?).
When Kodius eventually gets FoI back online, it would be hilarious to see Paladins knocking people into other rooms with their running charges.
Also, seeing as how Paladins have Bond Armaments, I think the Captain America shield toss should also be on the table as a potential perk, but I think several perks could be derived from the concept - trips, knockbacks, stuns, etc...
Anyways, just some thoughts.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
I would take the long view here and consider: when armors do eventually get tweaked, seeing as how virtually no one outside of Paladins currently use anything heavier than chain, it would be, I think, good planning to try to foresee how these changes will impact future Paladin perks. From a systemic point of view, if the goal is to encourage people to wear the heavier stuff, and you cannot foresee making it more difficult for non-primes to wear heavy armor(since we are currently sitting at ~0, I personally cannot), then I think it's worth considering that future changes will drift in that direction and to weigh the deck appropriately. They are both issues, but one doesn't have to enable the other down the road.
Based on the current model, I would propose a tiered perk system where you get x number of points to invest towards "armor perks". In this hypothetical system, Primes can go four branches in and get the most points, secondaries can go three branches with scaled points, terts go two branches. All guilds could be brought in line in this manner and you would have a system where it is relatively easy to weigh costs vs benefits without going too far down the thematics rabbit-hole, along with the ease of "special-casing" guilds for perks that are thematically specific to individual guilds.
One perk I would suggest would be an armored charge with the idea being, if Paladins can move with supernatural grace in heavy armor, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to do a full-clad sprint at their opponents, like berserkers in loincloths. I think a plate armor body/shield slam with a high tohit bonus that stuns on a successful SvF would be a neat way to "override" the current problem with retreating somewhat. If you really want to get nefarious with it, branch STALK mechanics into it so that even if they leave the room and run away, if they don't run fast enough, you 'catch up' with them, along with all the latent force that has caught up with you in the process - a couple football fields worth of SMASH and CRASH (friends 4 lyfe, amirite?).
When Kodius eventually gets FoI back online, it would be hilarious to see Paladins knocking people into other rooms with their running charges.
Also, seeing as how Paladins have Bond Armaments, I think the Captain America shield toss should also be on the table as a potential perk, but I think several perks could be derived from the concept - trips, knockbacks, stuns, etc...
Anyways, just some thoughts.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Scope of changes?
01/11/2018 11:37 AM CST
I think there's been some overestimating of the scope of my intentions.
I want to make the armor skills valuable to Paladins. It'd be nice to make lighter armor viable in niche situations, but the immediate intent is to give Paladins the means and desire to work their armor skills outside of clownsuits and TDPs.
If I can expand this outward into a skillset-oriented perk that benefits Armor Secondaries as well, that will be great. But a dramatic rewrite of armor and how armor is used is not in the cards as part of this year's Paladin work.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I want to make the armor skills valuable to Paladins. It'd be nice to make lighter armor viable in niche situations, but the immediate intent is to give Paladins the means and desire to work their armor skills outside of clownsuits and TDPs.
If I can expand this outward into a skillset-oriented perk that benefits Armor Secondaries as well, that will be great. But a dramatic rewrite of armor and how armor is used is not in the cards as part of this year's Paladin work.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
UFTIMF2P
Re: Scope of changes?
01/11/2018 01:07 PM CST
> but the immediate intent is to give Paladins the means and desire to work their armor skills outside of clownsuits and TDPs.
Achieving this would be huge and much appreciated.
Achieving this would be huge and much appreciated.
