<<<UP>protect self
You struggle to throw off your enchanted sleep.>>>

This really needs to work on sleep

<<Does the same thing thief khri liberation does (35th circle for them), except that it will bring you from prone to standing if you are prone. I would love for someone to correct me, because I honestly hope I am wrong.>>

Protect self can remove up to 7 negative effects where as liberation removes only 2.

In addition, liberation takes up a khri slot where as protect self is freely given to any Paladin who meets the requirement for the ability.

-Ssra

"Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind."

<<Protect self can remove up to 7 negative effects where as liberation removes only 2.>>

Fair point. Let's further our comparison with this knowledge:

liberation khri (35th circle) solves the following negative effects:

immobilization
stun

Pros: Can be used as often as a thief's pool will allow. What is thief juice called by the way? Concentration?

Cons: Takes a khri slot. Uses thief juice (no idea on the hit compared to other khri).

Typing dance/stand (0 circle) solves the following negative effects:

prone
kneeling
sitting

Pros: Can be used as often as you like. No guild requirement or circle requirement. As an extra benefit, you can type retreat twice just as quick.

Cons: None.

Protect self (80th circle) and solves the following negative effects:

immobilization
stunned
webbed
prone
kneeling
sitting
(unknown)

Pros: It is pretty darn nifty to go from stunned and on your back to standing and not stunned. Good surprise factor and has saved my tush before.

Cons: Can only be used once per day (at least as far as my research shows). Soul hit.

So far the meaningful differences are:

1. Protect self works against webs.
2. Something that is unknown at this time.
3. Doesn't take a spell slot.

Proposal: I am not convinced there is enough of a difference to justify the restrictions placed on Protect Self. Please consider:

1. Reducing the circle requirement to 35th.
2. Have it take a spell slot if you believe that is a meaningful difference.
3. Have it take soul at the range of Lead.

Thanks for your consideration. How is your consideration of old courage coming along?



Madigan

True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

Arthur Ashe

<<This is not true.>>

You are correct sir. The timer is calculated in minutes, not days (as I understand it), but may be used after the timer elapses and assuming you have enough concentration. I am told the timer is around 5 minutes, although I have not confirmed it. The cost in concentration is 70 compared to something like speed (160).

I would be happy to amend my request to a timer of even double the liberation timer. Ten minutes seems fairly reasonable. I would also be happy to amend my request for the soul hit to be 1/2 of the lead soul hit or GoL soul hit (which are the two major "soul" type abilities we have).

<<I also doubt most Thieves pick the ability until 80th+.>>

However, they may select it at 35th circle if I read the criteria correctly.

The issue is not about liberation, which appears to be a nice ability for the thief guild. The issue is whether or not a similar ability (Protect Self) is too limiting in light of Liberation.


Madigan

True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

Arthur Ashe