Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 05:52 PM CDT
If you've ever been in the position to be questioned on your guild how do you respond? Do you actively impersonate a different guild or state/imply you are guildless, and hope the player doesn't use OOC knowledge against you?

If you impersonate a different guild what are some steps you take to make yourself more believable?
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 06:47 PM CDT
Claiming that you're guildless is troublesome, as Moonies can perceive magic clinging to you. I think the best thing to do is claim you belong to a guild that corresponds to your cover magic type, and minimize your exposure.

I'm waiting to reappear on my old grounds until I have learned SoP, to enhance the image. There's plenty of game mechanics methods for auto-outing someone though.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 08:50 PM CDT
To act out the part of a certain role. What exactly is the role of a necro. Wether or not we truly are monsters or not is not as important as the fact that we are open season not only from other characters to include other necroes (SO), but to the GODS themselves. (DO). Never get caught is impossible, so on that day you run. Before you run, you simply deny everything and run. Most people will not care, if your not commiting any type of trouble and will simply forget about you. These people are not the ones that you realy stop to role play with. The ones that you want to start up, a role playing environment with are the ones that are out to destroy you.
The way I will handle it is that when I am caught, I will first deny everything, but there will be a time when you know that they know that you know that they know that you are a necro and there is no more denying. Thats when you simply, if you can not run, and escape. You simply have to chat with them OOC. During this conversation you will tell them that at any time, you and whoever your chating with come into any future contact both players are open, If they agree, to be open than thats perfect. And untill this conversation happens you simply leave them alone and go hunt somwhere else. Then you roll play it out.
You roll play it out that they are wrong in disciminating against you. That the great work is for everyone's benifit. That killing me wont stop me. Never take the first punch. Never allow your revenge to get in the way of the great work. You fight to get away. Untill you become a LICH. Then the tides will turn and you work on hunting down all the ones with titles of inquisitioner and all of those that caused you to run.

Just a thought as to how I would try to roll play.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 09:19 PM CDT
>> Chuckwiz

Nice thoughts, Chuck!
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 09:24 PM CDT
>Claiming that you're guildless is troublesome, as Moonies can perceive magic clinging to you.

So then is it considered impossible to do magic of a non-lynching variety without belonging to a standard guild?
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 09:59 PM CDT
>>So then is it considered impossible to do magic of a non-lynching variety without belonging to a standard guild?

Not impossible, just unlikely till around 150 ranks of arcana when you can temp-learn a scroll of that guild's spell. Which in all reality, is kind of pointless anyways. You could always use runestones, but whats the point of that if they see you rub it? The best way to fake a guild is to not get called out. Personally, I went out and learned a different spell prep so it was even harder for people to tell what guild I was. If the person suspecting me is a non-MM, then my chances of actually confusing them as to what my profession is rises greatly. To my knowledge, only MM's can actually tell what your mana type is. For all other guilds, they have to actually see you cast to tell what your mana type is.

But in the event you come under scrutiny, or are just actively trying to pass as another guild, it's best to act out the guild your mana-type perceives as. It might be good to banter about things related to that guild, such as recent visions, or what creatures are better for skinning training, or complain about having to learn shield as a defense.

The best deception always involves staying as close to the 'perceivable' truth as possible. This makes it easier to remember which lies you already told, therefore easier to build a web of deception on top of them =)
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 10:23 PM CDT
I was actually referring to the possibility and likeliness of a person who is capable of non-sorcerous magic, but is not affiliated with a guild.

Possible example being a person learning from a warrior mage, but not joining the organization themselves. Or being an ex-member of a guild.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 10:51 PM CDT
What you're talking about is being a Commoner, right?
To my knowledge, Commoners can't cast any spells as they are untrained in the ways of magic. Whether Commoners can use spell scrolls or cast analagous patterns though, I don't know all the details (maybe after sitting in on some magic/pp/harnes/arcana classes.) I am however certain you can't use a guild's spells naturally while not belonging to that specific guild. Reason being, when you join one guild, learn one of their spells, and decide to switch guilds, you lose knowledge of that spell. So not belonging to the guild means no more 'non-sorcerous' access to that guild's spells.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/10/2011 11:19 PM CDT
Commoners can not do magic of any type. I mean how can they be. They are not intuned to any mana, can not read scrolls or even power concieve. If im wrong on this please let me know. Its still good to be a comoner for as long as posible. Get all your survial skills up to a good level. ROLL PLAY IT OUT THAT your still looking for the guild. You can use a necro level calculator http://www.olwydd.org/guilds/necromancer/calc.php to figure out what you need to train in and how many levels you would be. You will be able to complete all of your physical training up to the level of about 21. That way when you go necro you only have to train in magic, this will get you to spiteful rebirth the fastest and safest this is your goal. Simply start from spite ful rebirth and back track what spells you will need in order to get to spiteful rebirth. You will end up skipping about 3 slots so you can get spiteful rebirth, this is the goal.
chuckwiz
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 02:02 AM CDT
yeah, i found out the hard way that using a runestone from your "fake" guild won't let you fake it, despite having access to slip at the time. oh well, live and learn. Or in that case, it was die and learn. :-(. will have to follow chuckwiz's advice on other characters. its good advice.






You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 05:08 AM CDT
If you find yourself in the position of being questioned, you're probably outed or soon to be outed. If you are trying to lay low, your best bet at doing so is to be preventative not defensive.

Cultivate an image of another guild (or at least their stereotypes) through your (really seriously brief) interactions with others and through your clothing/gear choices. Don't do anything suspicious, and don't dress like either the lord of death or someone who only picks up gear from critters/the general store. The idea is to make people assume and/or not give any thought at all as to what guild you might be part of.

This can all work for awhile, so long as you are also actually keeping your head down, but really, I find it is more beneficial to always operate with the knowledge that any cover you have is brief at best, and designed to fail you spectacularly. You will be outed. Prepare for this, expect it, embrace it.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 08:51 AM CDT
>>So then is it considered impossible to do magic of a non-lynching variety without belonging to a standard guild?

I think I may have miscommunicated. To claim that you belong to a non-magical guild means you're either a Trader, Barb, Thief, or Commoner (no guild). If a moon mage perceives you, they will see magic clinging to you, which means you're lying. Which means you're probably a Necromancer.

If you want to claim that you belong to the guild your magic is associated with (Elemental - Bard or Warmie, Lunar - Moon mage, Life - Ranger or Empath[a mistake, because you're probably hunting...]), then you should probably try and look the part, or be ready to cast a spell from one of their spellbooks. I got nailed with this a while back, claiming to be a Ranger and not having SoP memorized.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 09:01 AM CDT
Claim to be whatever you want, but keep some specific things in mind:

1) If people are suspicious of you, you already lost.
2) Unless you keep RoC up at all times, you already lost.
3) No matter what, you already lost.

With those things in mind, come to terms with the fact that any kind of ruse you create is destined for failure. You might as well plan ahead with how your character will react when it happens. The most you can hope for is that, when it is revealed that your character probably isn't who he claims to be, that the person(s) who figure it out decide to use that knowledge for some fun RP instead of just running to the boards about it.



"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 01:06 PM CDT
>What you're talking about is being a Commoner, right?
>Commoners can not do magic of any type.
>To claim that you belong to a non-magical guild means you're either a Trader, Barb, Thief, or Commoner

No offense, but I feel like you all are thinking a little too mechanically, though I suppose this highlights the problems of this approach. I am talking from a purely lore, in-character perspective of the possibility of a person who has taken a non-standard approach to learning magic. Either apprenticing to another magic user outside the guild structure, or being an ex-member thus having a legitimate reason to know magic but not being an actual part of that guild are possibly reasons that sound reasonable.

And the second part is taking your necromancer and using a story such as that as a cover. ex: Your fake attunement is lunar. "I'm an ex-moon mage. Guilded life just wasn't for me." and having a MM spell invoked from a scroll.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 01:28 PM CDT
>I am talking from a purely lore, in-character perspective of the possibility of a person who has taken a non-standard approach to learning magic. Either apprenticing to another magic user outside the guild structure, or being an ex-member thus having a legitimate reason to know magic but not being an actual part of that guild are possibly reasons that sound reasonable.

IIRC, this is what wild or hedge magic is supposed to represent. Not sure if those ideas will still be around in M3.0, though.

There is some support in the lore for non-guilded persons knowing magic. Just no mechanical support for it in the game.

-pete
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 01:30 PM CDT
I don't see anything inherently wrong with claiming that you're just "a natural" at being attuned to lunar energy. Apparently there is a [rare] situation where someone can spontaneously be attuned to a type of energy. And, heck, maybe along with that they even spontaneously figured out how to cast what most Moon Mages know as Shadows. Claiming you're an ex-blah works well, too.

Personally I think that a Necromancer with a cover story would want to use the KISS principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle) as often as possible. Making complex back stories would only help further your exposure*. If someone asks if you're a Moon Mage, you would probably be better off just saying "Yes" and not go into a long story about how you're not really a Moon Mage but really you once were but you decided to leave the guild and begin a simple life of goat/leucro crossbreeding.

If people start asking you to prove it by casting spells, that's already an indicator that you should leave, because they already question your story Consider it a non-accuse/SO-granting version of the "GET OUT OF DODGE CITY" warning.

(*of course, if you want your character to be exposed through things like this, maybe it's in your interest to make what most would perceive as overly elaborate lies.)



"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 02:03 PM CDT
If someone asks if you're a necromancer, it's really too late to hide it. Deny and run will handle this sometimes, as some players really take no interest in you as a necro at all regardless of how obvious you are. There are others, a great many others, however, that will remember.

Your RP really determines your course of action. Shatteringwave is a relatively sociable elothian, and is prone to making the mistake of overstaying his welcome (or lack thereof). He does not believe he is a necromancer, although he knows some similar things. As such, he adamantly denies it when someone calls him a nec. He also has a desire to avoid killing other members of the races (though he will do it while complaining about it if it furthers his quest for immortality). He tends to prefer to run and taunt or argue by gweth at a safe distance to fighting the people that hunt him. That is how I handle his exposure problems.
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/11/2011 04:01 PM CDT
<<With those things in mind, come to terms with the fact that any kind of ruse you create is destined for failure.>>

Remember, even the people nonsensically adept at the ruse failed in the end. See: Book.


GM Jaedren
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Re: Faking A Guild 04/12/2011 06:33 PM CDT
So far, one of my wee necros has gotten away with being a 'ranger'. I haven't decided what to do about the others yet. ;)


Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy

A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
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