I'm not sure why anyone would particularly care in the first place, since I imagine regardless of race, IC anyone would ask "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!" when you joined Necromancyhood. I guess Prydaen's just have an extra punch in the historical groin when it comes to Necromancy, being that an attempt at the eradication of their species happened earlier on because of it. No matter what your reason is for joining, you're giving your family, your friends, your neurons, your Soul, your Gods (if you follow any), and your spiritual beliefs (if you have any) the middle finger when you join. And remember, it's a conscious effort to join. Even if someone held a sword to your throat and said, "Join or die!", most sane, intelligent folks would probably just take death.

>>I'm not sure why anyone would particularly care in the first place, since I imagine regardless of race, IC anyone would ask "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!"

My thoughts exactly. However , it's still constantly made a point for my character to be questioned . You would think the Rakash would be more questionable targets given their "family" values. But when it comes down to it , most races have had near decimation from necrolords .

"Don't try and blame me for your sins, for the sun has burned me black" Your hollow lives , this world in which we live , I've hurled it back."
Bruce Dickinson - "The Alchemist"

Sounds like the converse might be a handy RP-excuse. Is someone confronts your character about be a necromancer, "I'm prydaen, we would never do something like that."

Honestly, the necromancer lore was designed to be pretty open here such that any type of character could fit in.

Nikpack

Without going into too much detail, my Pryd Necro pretty well lost his ** after Lyras's zombies ate his parents. He went off the deep end and figured the best way to beat Lyras was at her own game, and then he could ensure that such horror would never be repeated. Then he 'found' Book and became convinced that while Necrolords are bad, death is the real problem.

---

This idea may have worked in another time and another place, but here it immediately fell on its face and went "Durp durp." - Armifer

>>Being a Prydaen (or Rakash) Necromancer requires that the character be completely and permanently severed from the cultural and religious values of their people that, in the minds of some players, "make" the race. This isn't strictly bad, but it needs to be addressed. A Prydaen Necromancer who continues to "be Prydaen" is Doing It Wrong in a pretty spectacular way.

I was under the impression that being a necromancer at all required this. I've always seen necros sort of like pilots who, when in an unrecoverable tail spin, decide not to punch out because they're sure they'll bounce this time.

---

This idea may have worked in another time and another place, but here it immediately fell on its face and went "Durp durp." - Armifer

Wouldn't that only [maybe?] come into play if the reason a Prydean became a Philosopher is to overcome his/her own death?

I'm assuming you're referencing the entire Prydean culture behind The Great Wheel reincarnating everyone who dies, so if you come right back what's the big deal in dying.

>>The reason the Philosophers are sympathetic at all is they're doing something which, if you take out the demons and murder and sins against nature and stuff is fundamentally human.

I thought that even though Philosophers are [generally] the "good" Necromancers, aren't they still pretty much lunatics who go to incredibly lengths to attempt to justify their actions as being the right choice after all (if they even care enough to do so).

Not to really question you, but I would have thought that most Philosophers being okay with who they are can amount to that they're all essentially lunatics, and they probably had a good amount of issues even before that to consider becoming one in the first place. If anything, I would have thought that non-Philosopher Prydean/Rakash even remotely accepting a Necromancer at all would be more Doing It Wrong (since non Philosopher every-other-race could at least act like they tolerate Philosophers/Necromancers for their own greatness/power) than a Philosopher Prydean/Rakash going "oh I am totally on the ball doing this."

---

"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER

sorry to double post but I think what your getting at , correct me if I'm wrong , is what I've been thinking. That a Prydaen Necro must be something far worse then just a Necromancer.

"Don't try and blame me for your sins, for the sun has burned me black" Your hollow lives , this world in which we live , I've hurled it back."
Bruce Dickinson - "The Alchemist"

<<Thats pretty much the backstory on my s'kra - her original "intentions" on joining were to divert Lyras et al away from the S'Kra people <particularly muspar'i> by learning to "fight fire with fire". <the old "set a thief to catch a thief" scenario> In light of her background in the "study" of the dragonpriests, and from an "old family descended from the priests" - it was thought to be possible to send her as the one to be so "sacrificed". However -- as a result of the "reattunement" things didn't quite work out that way.

TL:DR Version: The Gods are jerks and I'm surprised more people don't follow that angle.

Full Version: I'm surprised I don't hear more about the religious reasons for Necromancy. As "a guy playing DR" I can never really emotionally or spiritually fully understand "the Gods" and what have you inside the game. What I mean is, maybe as an Elanthian I'd give the Gods a "free pass" for whatever they do, but as a guy playing DR it's much easier to question their authority. As it was once said, the Gods really are jerks. They're spiteful, violent, and certainly less than perfect. Beyond that though, to me they're missing the very item that should allow them to even obtain the title "Gods" from their people, they're not omnipotent. At the end of the day, when the chips are down, it's been shown that even the Immortals or Gods or what have you can be dropped to their knees by powers that far supercede their own. This, in itself, gives my character enough to go on to ask, "Who are YOU to tell ME what to do?".

Elanthian existance is a whole mess of restrictions and boundries put in place by 'creatures' whose identities aren't 100% understood. Really they're just like a regular, plain old mortal King and his Kingdom. He has power over those weaker than him, and what does he do when one gets out of line? He executes them. The Immortals, and heck even the Heralds are the same way. They tell you what to do and then, when you do something you're not supposed to? You get executed, without even really being told why except, "what you're doing is wrong" or implying that we're "over-stepping" our mystical boundries as mortals. Well sorry, but maybe if they were as "all powerful" as they're supposed to be, we wouldn't be able to over-step those boundries and they wouldn't have to strike anybody down.

Even beyond that, you think Necromancer's are violent and crazy? It's almost like the only way the Gods and Heralds know how to respond to any conflict against their authority is with violence. To my Necromancer it's not him who is crazy, it's everyone else who doesn't get the big picture. There has to be a better existance than being a slave to these egotistical, elusive, psychopathically violent creatures.

as a side note . I did consider "all things prydaen" when developing my character. That was a brilliantly creativity Idea Teve , but I did conceive a more sinister backstory .

But really ? Religion ? Necromancy is opposed in concept. Despite the concept.
and Culture? Prydaen culture has become become tradition rather then. Culturally speaking you spend most of your time alone and only get with other Prydaen's during winter to mate .

"Don't try and blame me for your sins, for the sun has burned me black" Your hollow lives , this world in which we live , I've hurled it back."
Bruce Dickinson - "The Alchemist"

<<a la Greek Parthenon>>

just one minor correction. the word you should have used is "pantheon". The "parthenon" is a building.

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

So , can I get a leg here or advice on any of the information I've posted? I've learned a lot so far in this thread and as these are things that equated into my characters persona I want to know if Im barking up the wrong tree or not. = >

"Don't try and blame me for your sins, for the sun has burned me black" Your hollow lives , this world in which we live , I've hurled it back."
Bruce Dickinson - "The Alchemist"

>>That brings up a funny but interesting point. CAN a Necromancer starve to death? If not, why not, and if so, how does she "repair the damage" and come back?

Isolated from his magic, a Necromancer can starve to death as easily as anyone else and for exactly the same reason. In practice, a Necromancer (and an Empath, for that matter) may develop supernatural tools to address that need that other people do not have.

The practical side of the Great Work is the creation of a perfected being who is a living immortal -- presumably, transformation of the Necromancer himself into this state but that's not explicit. You can argue that "perfect living immortal" involves fundamental contradictions, and you'd be right. It points to either the sublime character or the utter foolishness of this necromantic alchemy.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

That does bring up another question. Has there been any evidence that the Gorbesh pantheon(s) have issues with Necromancy?

I know it's been stated that "all gods" do, but I have yet to see anything from them.

---

Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares

The Gorbesh themselves benefited from one of the greatest Necromantic plagues in history , However Im not sure where their Gods stand on the issue .

Im suppose if anyone would know it would be Pureblade.

"Don't try and blame me for your sins, for the sun has burned me black" Your hollow lives , this world in which we live , I've hurled it back."
Bruce Dickinson - "The Alchemist"

As the Kaldar Champion I'd like to clarify this whole mess.

So you see the deal is... GAK

-Raesh

The real answer (putting aside the existence or non-existence of the Albarian gods) is that "all gods" means "all gods." It's a blanket quality of all divinities that they are angered by what the Necromancers are trying to do.

It doesn't matter how you want to frame the question and in what cultural context, you're not going to find a god that will accept Necromancers on their own terms. The Redeemed are as close as you get, and the Redeemed are very much not the one calling the shots in that relationship.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

<<It doesn't matter how you want to frame the question and in what cultural context, you're not going to find a god of Necromancers.>>

the world dragon?

munch...munch...

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

Game mechanics wise I'd imagine "no God will ever support Necromancy" is so that Necro's would never be able to find a way to gain favor or have protection from another God's divine retribution (outside of Lichdom or whatever might do that).

It saddens me a little bit because inwardly I hope Necromancer's find the answer in The Great Work, but realistically I imagine they never will, because in the end the "bad guys" have to lose. Since the GMs can't erase the Necromancer Guild (or at least hopefully won't due to all of the insane time put into it) I imagine if we're all still here playing 10 years from now, things will mostly be the same. Kind of unfortunate since other Guilds can expand and improve, but since IN DEVS WE TRUST they'll find otherwise to expand and improve our experience.

>>It doesn't matter how you want to frame the question and in what cultural context, you're not going to find a god of Necromancers.

Way to hurt Maelshyve's feelings, guys.

OOC-wise, I get that they'll never be an Immortal or other form of divinity that goes "Hey, you Necros are all right. Have some favors."

IC-wise, I think that there's a good [although possibly unpopular] argument that shows the Immortals aren't really as all-powerful as the Temple would like everyone to believe. Hodernia almost got screwed up. Asketi almost got screwed up. Urrem'tier almost got screwed up. Now, the alternative is that the Immortals just like giving heroes/champions/etc the impression that they're in danger just so they're not Deus Ex Machina-ing up the joint on a day to day basis, but if that's the case then the fact that they let Lyras stomp around for as long as they did just proves they're a bunch of cruel jackasses, which still proves the Philosopher's point that the Immortals are jerks and need to be taken down a notch or hundred (although it becomes a lot less possible).

---

"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER

>The Philosophers' struggle for the Great Work is conceived as a finite plot arc with a definite resolution, though it may take us many years to get there, or we may burn out before we arrive.

The role play possibilities of this excite me. Just within the scope of my current Philosopher's point of view, depending on how this resolution plays out there is the potential for massive shifts in his state of mind and fiber of character.


Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur