>>These changes feel un-playtested and a little excessive - had been staying out of Shard proper


Same thing happened to me. Never been banished in the year or so with my character, and suddenly was for the first time tonight. Hopefully this'll be tweaked.

What's the syntax for declaring a side?

I'm finding the changes unplayable. Got banished from Shard by breezing through it. Now Crossing thinks I'm a necromancer and won't let me use the bank. I've always played my necro as stealth so I'm not used to this stuff. Does being banished from one town automatically max you out at other towns? I don't get it.

Question about #1
I got a message periodically in rooms with someone with the amulet saying "they must be a necromancer!" Hilarious as that was - is that what you are talking about with the #1 flag? So if you wear an obviously necromancers item in your house by yourself, that won't trigger?

Now I understand I'm the one saying something so focus on me. You shouldnt be arrested in non justice areas. You shouldnt be then killed right after. Yes I wore the talisman. I didnt wear the talisman in town. Yes I went through towns before with buffs up, I also went through towns before with ROG up.

The issue isnt any of that.

The issue is players who havent had ANYTHING to do with having buffs up, talismans on, or anything of the such are getting screwed.

>> Totenus was not (and no PC can be) automatically hounded for a single infraction.

Armifer,

Would you be willing to provide any details about when Hounding kicks in? Is that an indication you've capped your SO? If not, can you give a range?

Additionally:
- If you get hounded and you're not capped, I assume the hounding itself gives you more SO?
- To confirm: SO is still province-based, correct?

- I

Just as a general note, I'm not going to be back in DR for awhile today due to appointments and stuff, so responses may get scatter shot and such. I apologize if something falls through the cracks and will be back in more detail this evening.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

>>To confirm: SO is still province-based, correct?

Some seem linked in an odd way, maybe adjacent? I was banished from Shard, and now Crossing won't let me use services. However, Haven and Theren both will do business with me.

>>But how many of you guys having problems with this SO problem have played DR through LICH or straight from a script? And have never really gone through the understanding of the possible repercussions of what being a member of the necro guild can potentially give rise to possible consequences?

I think the big difference people are feeling is that before, you had to be CAREFUL, but if you made a slip up you could possibly get away with it. Now, you make a slip up and you're guaranteed screwed. So it's not a matter of not understanding the possible repercussions, it's the repercussions going from POSSIBLE to GUARANTEED.

So, I want to touch on two broad issues as, well, broad issues rather than specific responses.

PVP OPEN PERVERSE:
Honestly, this is a matter of pretty vivid discussion both here and behind the scenes. We have a lot to digest and think about, both in terms of "should villains be accountable in a PvP manner?" but also more broadly "should PCs be able to portray villains at all, if not?" There's also a matter of how much we want to generally pull away from PvP as conflict resolution versus keeping as much of the spirit of the Necromancers intact as we can within that concept.

Which is all a long way of saying I don't have an answer yet, but I'm still actively listening and looking.

SO CHANGES:
There is one potential change I'm considering doing (vagueness because I'm not at the code yet and so can't confirm if what I think is happening is happening), but beyond that I want to give this one a few days as people get used to dealing with SO again and remembering how to sneak. At the heart of the issue, yes, "just one" trans buff on you in town (if not properly Grace'd) is too many, not being sneaky and discrete has always been meant to send you on the merry path to SO.

While I won't rule out adjustments, I feel here more than the previous issue that it's less a design issue (bugs and math tweaks not withstanding) and more an issue of expectations that got lost somewhere along the way and are now being enforced vigorously.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

A post was hidden.

Just a reminder, you may not conflict in the Necromancer folders.

Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator

PVP Open Perverse:

1. PC's, necromancer or otherwise, are the only villains in your game. Showing up once a month/quarter to mustache twirl and add 'content' via some GMNPC that everyone's had highlighted and been clicker-trained to immediately step over eachother to interact with doesnt cut it. Support for the dedicated Heroes of the game is extensive. Support for villainous PCs is essentially glass orbs. Give the villains better tools and you'll see better plots, stories, and interactions.

2. Should villains be accountable in a PvP manner?

Yes, unless you're going to continue to implement mechanical impediments to ever interacting with other players in a social setting like you've taken steps towards this week. If the intent is to make it near-impossible to play a 'PC Villain' then PvP for them wont matter as they'll have to generate contrived interactions in order to play their role rather than have some organic reactions to the other players.

If your intent is to make sure that GMNPC's are the only villains, then you're going to get very binary responses. Either you're going to create a low-level 'villain' that people can effectively ignore because they've out-trained it, or you'll have some super-villain that even HLC's get nuked by. Both of those are lazy choices, have been seen for literally decades, and frankly from a player perspective suck. Do better.

3. Pulling away from PvP as a conflict resolution - You got big plans for a debate society? Maybe a HLC-only roshambo league to settle arguements? Dice game to decide who gets to win the duel? Why burn all that dev time on 'scaled pvp' mechanics? Dont you think the game as a whole would've been better served to use those VERY limited developer cycles on something that the general populace would use more frequently? If there's pressure from 'leadership' to reduce player-based conflict while at the same time building ways to allow for more player-based conflict, might be time for a vote of No Confidence.

SO CHANGES:
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I actually applaud you for making Necromancers have to "Play" their characters now with intent and discipline and purpose rather than allow endless numbers of 'advanced mode' scrubs to move freely without repercussions and consequence to their actions. This is the one good thing thats come from this event/release/whatever and I think its long overdue. If I could make a single recommendation it would be not to tune backwards but increase the 'heat'. You've just via lore and IC history punched one of the most evil entities the game has ever known straight in the mouth and that SHOULD send Necromancers everywhere running for the hills to get the hell out of the limelight. If the populace is aware enough that their heroes can take down a demon then I think they'd be supercharged and overly confident that they too could ferret out the tainted among them.

-Nsar

>>While I won't rule out adjustments, I feel here more than the previous issue that it's less a design issue (bugs and math tweaks not withstanding) and more an issue of expectations that got lost somewhere along the way and are now being enforced vigorously.

I would agree with the general consensus that it seems extremely aggressive at the moment. If this is the new normal I shall adapt, of course.

Just a moment ago:
- Am Forsaken.
- No trans buffs up.
- No forbidden items in-hand or worn, though I did have one on during the recent event.
- SO was low enough not to show up in JUSTICE.
- No ROC up; in plain sight.
- My first trip to Zoluren for a bit (days to weeks).

I ran from the gondola through Leth, swam the Segoltha and went straight to the Crossing bank. Withdrew some coin and went straight for the NE Gate. Barring the couple seconds at the teller's window I was basically moving at scripting speeds the entire time.

Got hit with a Forbidden Practices charge the second I stepped outside the Crossing city limits. I have exited Zoluren entirely.

>justice
You're fairly certain this area is lawless and unsafe.
You are also fairly sure that the people are convinced you are either a necromancer or sorcerer.

- I

>>Got hit with a Forbidden Practices charge the second I stepped outside the Crossing city limits. I have exited Zoluren entirely.

And I just got hounded. In the Crossing Guard House. While trying to surrender.

- I

>I will BUG the room. Was immediately outside the Crossing NE Gate. Wasn't arrested; just charged.

That's a justice area. By design.

Just thought I'd share my fun loop.

Ran through crossing (travel script) got jailed and exiled and hounded.
logged out

Logged in and got hunted and jailed and then executed.
Got to the bank and managed to pull out money automatically paying fines, then got jailed again.

Got lucky and pulled a plead innocence and grabbed my stuff and ran.

- Mortifer

Doing the good work, not just the Great Work

Just a point of data: 150th Plat Necromancer, Aligned Philosopher.

Stood around on Shard streets for just under 40 minutes with no issues before being bored and leaving. At the end I had no sign of issue in Justice.

Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

<<Just a reminder, you may not conflict in the Necromancer folders.

Devil's advocate and admittedly a slight tangent, albeit a genuine question:

<<POLICY:
<<There is no longer any conceptual difference between a Necromancer and any other guild as far as policy goes.

Should the forum policy regarding the necromancer folder be changed in light of the new in game policy too? It was honestly my first thought upon reading Armifer's announcement post.

>PVP OPEN PERVERSE:
Honestly, this is a matter of pretty vivid discussion both here and behind the scenes. We have a lot to digest and think about, both in terms of "should villains be accountable in a PvP manner?" but also more broadly "should PCs be able to portray villains at all, if not?" There's also a matter of how much we want to generally pull away from PvP as conflict resolution versus keeping as much of the spirit of the Necromancers intact as we can within that concept.


Armifer...

Firstly, I want to take off the table, anything to do with abuse towards stances, players or abusive behaviors.


All of us that do participate in this realm of conflict RP that involves PvP do have a set of etiquette we go by (as im sure your aware), Maybe im naïve but it works for me, and seemingly the ones I RP with. Both villains and good guys. This type of behavior works (again abuse not on the table for sake of discussion)and when their is "PC only RP" and conflict breaks out in the realm of PvP we have a ball with it. It is enjoyable both for those participating and those that just observe and like to watch from the sidelines.

For me, its a break from the grind, its something more to do than just sit around and chat. It puts my character up against another character in a vastly immersive way. I have to think and play more quickly, not just with attacking but via RP as well. There have been a number of players that have become quite inquisitive toward RP and PvP just by watching my antics. For them this is seen as being enjoyable and a new experience within the game that they would like to try as some already have.


My characters depth is added to by my involvement with other characters, and having a villain is a great way to bounce off. To the point of playing the Zealot ive found a way to be both of sorts.


(I am worried about SO and being able to PvP in town against the current Necro villains, but i'll state what I have stated and see what direction this discussion goes)


Rifkinn

>> Not having a clear way of knowing a room's default province makes this fun

I want to say you can use the PAY verb to figure this out, at least mostly.

--

We have received a handful of assists and bug reports about being arrested 'outside of justice': As both a reminder and point of clarification, a posse can be sent after you even if you are not in a justice zone, as a function of how badly that province wants you. The accusations (and the actions that set them off) ARE bound to justice areas. The angry mob that is hunting you down for having caused too much trouble is not. There is also a significant cool down between automatic justice system events.

Posses are not a new feature of the system.