Previous
>>This concept isn't in action anywhere else because TM foci were never released, and TM spell templates are still slightly nerfed compared to a weapon template because of that. Functionally, holding a TM foci was/is intended to hand your TM spell a weapon and allow it to do full weapon-grade DPS.
>>Unless something changed I don't think this is the case. My understanding is that TM spells currently scale with crafted missile weapons. TM is going to push it past that because you'll then be trading the DPS of a physical attack going alongside a magic attack for a pure magic attack DPS setup.
The only spell currently tied to weapon system is the Vivisection (https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Vivisection) as far as I know. Another "interesting" take on TM
AEROVIR
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:04 PM CST
<Have fun with Zombies guys, just stop pretending its normal. Nuff said. Cheers.
Who ever said things have to be normal? Zombies are what the Necromancer guild was based around. I know you play a MM from the MM folders. So you play a guild that can do something no other guilds can do. I guess that's hax too?
Who ever said things have to be normal? Zombies are what the Necromancer guild was based around. I know you play a MM from the MM folders. So you play a guild that can do something no other guilds can do. I guess that's hax too?
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:13 PM CST
>>The only spell currently tied to weapon system is the Vivisection (https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Vivisection) as far as I know. Another "interesting" take on TM
I see a spell being compared to a specific weapon, not a statement that TM spells don't scale according to missile weapons as a whole. My understanding is that "hunter's bows" are being referenced because those are "better" at sniping, which is why they're specifically referenced in vivisection.
Generally, the more power you put into a TM spell, the "better" its stats are, and it scales similar to how crafted missile weapons scale (or were at least projected to scale, since this was developed pre-carving coming out). IE: a low prep of a TM spell is comparable to store-bought, while a high prep is more comparable to rare-metal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I see a spell being compared to a specific weapon, not a statement that TM spells don't scale according to missile weapons as a whole. My understanding is that "hunter's bows" are being referenced because those are "better" at sniping, which is why they're specifically referenced in vivisection.
Generally, the more power you put into a TM spell, the "better" its stats are, and it scales similar to how crafted missile weapons scale (or were at least projected to scale, since this was developed pre-carving coming out). IE: a low prep of a TM spell is comparable to store-bought, while a high prep is more comparable to rare-metal.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:19 PM CST
>Unless something changed I don't think this is the case. My understanding is that TM spells currently scale with crafted missile weapons. TM is going to push it past that because you'll then be trading the DPS of a physical attack going alongside a magic attack for a pure magic attack DPS setup.
Hrm, it looks like a lot of my experience was a bug ( https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_and_Ranged_Adjustments_-_01/04/2014_-_00:10 )? I distinctly recall the initial rollout having magic damage balanced for foci, but if that was not some bizzare dream, nobody archived those posts!
>The only spell currently tied to weapon system is the Vivisection (https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Vivisection) as far as I know. Another "interesting" take on TM
All TM spells use the same math as weapons; they have templates and use core combat. This has been the case for a very long time:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_Foci_-_01/02/2014_-_20:30
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TARGET%28TM%29_vs_AIM%28Longbow%29_-_02/21/2012_-_22:29
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Hrm, it looks like a lot of my experience was a bug ( https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_and_Ranged_Adjustments_-_01/04/2014_-_00:10 )? I distinctly recall the initial rollout having magic damage balanced for foci, but if that was not some bizzare dream, nobody archived those posts!
>The only spell currently tied to weapon system is the Vivisection (https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Vivisection) as far as I know. Another "interesting" take on TM
All TM spells use the same math as weapons; they have templates and use core combat. This has been the case for a very long time:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TM_Foci_-_01/02/2014_-_20:30
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Post:TARGET%28TM%29_vs_AIM%28Longbow%29_-_02/21/2012_-_22:29
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
AEROVIR
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:33 PM CST
>>All TM spells use the same math as weapons; they have templates and use core combat. This has been the case for a very long time:
>>A few spells might break template if there's an excellent reason (TKT comes to mind), but it's not meant to be common.
I might be wrong but If zombie were on a template like a weapon, it would be a normal TM with a base and max range set. But its not is it? I creates a critter that can then be augmented by a mundane weapons stats after its creation. How many templates does the spell have because of this? How many spells can change templates like this?
>>Who ever said things have to be normal? Zombies are what the Necromancer guild was based around. I know you play a MM from the MM folders. So you play a guild that can do something no other guilds can do. I guess that's hax too?
What exactly are you referring to? Astral travel? JJ makes it obsolete and is available to everyone. So I don't follow.
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:47 PM CST
<What exactly are you referring to? Astral travel? JJ makes it obsolete and is available to everyone. So I don't follow.
Prediction, the ability to buff any skill regardless of SOI, skillset, whatever. Most guilds have to use sorcery, and can only have 2 spells recognized at any one time to provide this effect. The point was, that some things are different guild to guild. Necromancers were made to basically be a pet class guild, so its hard to compare the abilities said pets can use. I no longer even play a Necromancer, I actually play a MM as main. There like I said, are a lot of drawbacks to relying on zombies.
Prediction, the ability to buff any skill regardless of SOI, skillset, whatever. Most guilds have to use sorcery, and can only have 2 spells recognized at any one time to provide this effect. The point was, that some things are different guild to guild. Necromancers were made to basically be a pet class guild, so its hard to compare the abilities said pets can use. I no longer even play a Necromancer, I actually play a MM as main. There like I said, are a lot of drawbacks to relying on zombies.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:56 PM CST
>>I might be wrong but If zombie were on a template like a weapon, it would be a normal TM with a base and max range set. But its not is it?
The base and max range is it's OF and natural stats. IIRC the critter used as the base material also influences it in a very minor way.
>>I creates a critter that can then be augmented by a mundane weapons stats after its creation.
This is correct, and accurate with how any critter functions. This is also 1000% intentional. This is also how guardian spirit works. In fact, the weapon stats a guardian spirit naturally comes with is based on effective natural TM skill
>>How many templates does the spell have because of this?
Has your complaint shifted from zombies being able to use bows to zombies being able to use any weapon? As another person mentioned, does brawling count as being overpowered? What if a person makes a zombie out of a critter that comes with a bow and arrow?
>>How many spells can change templates like this?
Not counting Guardian Spirit? Moonblade and Elemental Weapons come to mind. Clerics have Shield of Light, if we're really looking for comparisons.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
The base and max range is it's OF and natural stats. IIRC the critter used as the base material also influences it in a very minor way.
>>I creates a critter that can then be augmented by a mundane weapons stats after its creation.
This is correct, and accurate with how any critter functions. This is also 1000% intentional. This is also how guardian spirit works. In fact, the weapon stats a guardian spirit naturally comes with is based on effective natural TM skill
>>How many templates does the spell have because of this?
Has your complaint shifted from zombies being able to use bows to zombies being able to use any weapon? As another person mentioned, does brawling count as being overpowered? What if a person makes a zombie out of a critter that comes with a bow and arrow?
>>How many spells can change templates like this?
Not counting Guardian Spirit? Moonblade and Elemental Weapons come to mind. Clerics have Shield of Light, if we're really looking for comparisons.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DBABIASH
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:56 PM CST
>>I might be wrong but If zombie were on a template like a weapon, it would be a normal TM with a base and max range set.
A zombie is a critter, created by a spell. After the spell is cast, its interaction with the magic system ceases to exist, and it is now governed by the combat system as a critter with stats determined at the time of casting based off of numerous factors (not just TM). The "level" of critter a Necromancer can raise is determined by Thanatology. The strength of the zombie is based off of the mana put into the spell, which among other things per any spellcaster, is most influenced by the skill for the spell (Utility, not TM, BTW). When the spell is cast, your TM is thrown into an equation with the mana put into the spell and the critter used, in order to determine the zombies OF/DF. If the same Necromancer creates two zombies, one a rat zombie with a minimum prep CFB, and one a wyvern zombie with a capped CFB, they will have drastically different OF/DF, even though created by a Necromancer with same TM skill.
A zombie is a critter, created by a spell. After the spell is cast, its interaction with the magic system ceases to exist, and it is now governed by the combat system as a critter with stats determined at the time of casting based off of numerous factors (not just TM). The "level" of critter a Necromancer can raise is determined by Thanatology. The strength of the zombie is based off of the mana put into the spell, which among other things per any spellcaster, is most influenced by the skill for the spell (Utility, not TM, BTW). When the spell is cast, your TM is thrown into an equation with the mana put into the spell and the critter used, in order to determine the zombies OF/DF. If the same Necromancer creates two zombies, one a rat zombie with a minimum prep CFB, and one a wyvern zombie with a capped CFB, they will have drastically different OF/DF, even though created by a Necromancer with same TM skill.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:57 PM CST
>I might be wrong but If zombie were on a template like a weapon, it would be a normal TM with a base and max range set. But its not is it? I creates a critter that can then be augmented by a mundane weapons stats after its creation.
Well, no, of course zombies are on a template like a critter, but that template gets created based on the OF output of a TM skill check.
I do think you're still not totally understanding how an attack and damage calculation is resolved in Dragonrealms, how critters work, and the degree of impact weapon stats actually have (although, disarming a critter is instructive of how bad most critter equipment is compared to natural brawling damage).
It's still comparing apples to apples, and the apples aren't even all that different. I know a lot of my own baffled reaction to this thread is why anyone would argue with such passion over small details like these.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Well, no, of course zombies are on a template like a critter, but that template gets created based on the OF output of a TM skill check.
I do think you're still not totally understanding how an attack and damage calculation is resolved in Dragonrealms, how critters work, and the degree of impact weapon stats actually have (although, disarming a critter is instructive of how bad most critter equipment is compared to natural brawling damage).
It's still comparing apples to apples, and the apples aren't even all that different. I know a lot of my own baffled reaction to this thread is why anyone would argue with such passion over small details like these.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:58 PM CST
>>If the same Necromancer creates two zombies, one a rat zombie with a minimum prep CFB, and one a wyvern zombie with a capped CFB, they will have drastically different OF/DF, even though created by a Necromancer with same TM skill.
I could have sworn reading that the difference was rather minor, but I could be wrong. I don't feel like there's a notable difference between a ship rat zombie and a mountain giant zombie for me, at least.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I could have sworn reading that the difference was rather minor, but I could be wrong. I don't feel like there's a notable difference between a ship rat zombie and a mountain giant zombie for me, at least.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AEROVIR
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 02:59 PM CST
>>It sounds like the crux of your issue has nothing to do with skillset placement, and everything to do with zombies being allowed to use ranged weapons. If I released Elementals as a combat pet, and allowed the WM to hand them ranged weapons, it would behave exactly the same was as Zombies, except it would be a cyclic spell. (Nobody is currently working on this system, so don't get excited WMs.)
It actually is both. And lets be honest. This is not happening with any other TM period. Even avengers are not able to exploit TM to the same extent. And unless the necromancer decides to go and be stupid casting zombies all day they are not risking anything. The occasional zombie cast poses 0 risk to the necromancer. It should be a hulk in combat, not sit back and ranged attack after getting a stickbow.... at a target who is avoiding melee and expecting to either A) defend against that pesky necromancers TM using Magic barriers or against pesky necromancer's tertiary skills to fire a bow at ranged etc...
Obviously the ability to create an attack with the TM spell that is no longer going to contest barriers and MR that all other spells must first bypass. You are creating a ranged TM spell that does not follow any of these rules, have any drawbacks or make any sense. Sure thematically zombies are great for a necromancer. Its not thematically accurate for zombies to be masters capable of using ANY bow, sword, staff etc as efficient as his caster can use TM.
Any hoo... I am done with this. This has become toxic and is leading nowhere. I already got the answer I wanted. And it was what I assumed to begin with. Cheers.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:01 PM CST
>>I do think you're still not totally understanding how an attack and damage calculation is resolved in Dragonrealms, how critters work, and the degree of impact weapon stats actually have (although, disarming a critter is instructive of how bad most critter equipment is compared to natural brawling damage).
I honestly feel like the complaint is essentially "zombies can use lots of weapon types this is unfair" with a goalpost shift of "also those weapons can be really good quality which is clearly OP" and a side order of "and what about ranged attacks!" thrown into the mix every so often.
I have trouble feeling sympathetic toward the complaint since the complaint is more-or-less the purpose of the spell: "Summon a mob that can fight on your behalf also you can equip it with stuff"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I honestly feel like the complaint is essentially "zombies can use lots of weapon types this is unfair" with a goalpost shift of "also those weapons can be really good quality which is clearly OP" and a side order of "and what about ranged attacks!" thrown into the mix every so often.
I have trouble feeling sympathetic toward the complaint since the complaint is more-or-less the purpose of the spell: "Summon a mob that can fight on your behalf also you can equip it with stuff"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:09 PM CST
>>This is not happening with any other TM period.
Except avengers
>>Even avengers are not able to exploit TM to the same extent.
What do you mean by "exploit"?
>>It should be a hulk in combat, not sit back and ranged attack after getting a stickbow...
So is the issue "too many weapon choices" or are we back to "can use bows" again?
>>at a target who is avoiding melee
Talk about a skill-free exploit
>>defend against that pesky necromancers TM using Magic barriers
Why not use a physical barrier?
>>or against pesky necromancer's tertiary skills to fire a bow at ranged etc...
This implies that necromancers have no ranged attacks (like, I don't know, TM), or that a necromancer can't be good with a bow.
>>Obviously the ability to create an attack with the TM spell that is no longer going to contest barriers
Except physical barriers like Manifest Force and Cage of Light.
>>You are creating a ranged TM spell that does not follow any of these rules
The spell summons a critter. Surely you have ways to fight critters. Rules for that, even.
>>have any drawbacks
Holy magic eats them up pretty well.
>>or make any sense
You not liking that Lay Ward doesn't protect you against zombies does not mean a spell "doesn't make sense"
>>Sure thematically zombies are great for a necromancer. Its not thematically accurate for zombies to be masters capable of using ANY bow, sword, staff etc as efficient as his caster can use TM.
How should zombies work, then? All their attacks being magical, despite mundane attacks made non-PC-made-zombies not being magical? PC-zombies being limited to what weapons they can use (and by what weapons, we mean not bows, since that is what bugs you), despite bow using zombies being perfectly fine?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Except avengers
>>Even avengers are not able to exploit TM to the same extent.
What do you mean by "exploit"?
>>It should be a hulk in combat, not sit back and ranged attack after getting a stickbow...
So is the issue "too many weapon choices" or are we back to "can use bows" again?
>>at a target who is avoiding melee
Talk about a skill-free exploit
>>defend against that pesky necromancers TM using Magic barriers
Why not use a physical barrier?
>>or against pesky necromancer's tertiary skills to fire a bow at ranged etc...
This implies that necromancers have no ranged attacks (like, I don't know, TM), or that a necromancer can't be good with a bow.
>>Obviously the ability to create an attack with the TM spell that is no longer going to contest barriers
Except physical barriers like Manifest Force and Cage of Light.
>>You are creating a ranged TM spell that does not follow any of these rules
The spell summons a critter. Surely you have ways to fight critters. Rules for that, even.
>>have any drawbacks
Holy magic eats them up pretty well.
>>or make any sense
You not liking that Lay Ward doesn't protect you against zombies does not mean a spell "doesn't make sense"
>>Sure thematically zombies are great for a necromancer. Its not thematically accurate for zombies to be masters capable of using ANY bow, sword, staff etc as efficient as his caster can use TM.
How should zombies work, then? All their attacks being magical, despite mundane attacks made non-PC-made-zombies not being magical? PC-zombies being limited to what weapons they can use (and by what weapons, we mean not bows, since that is what bugs you), despite bow using zombies being perfectly fine?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:10 PM CST
>>> I might be wrong but If zombie were on a template like a weapon, it would be a normal TM with a base and max range set. But its not is it? I creates a critter that can then be augmented by a mundane weapons stats after its creation. How many templates does the spell have because of this? How many spells can change templates like this?
I think I understand the hangup. Zombies are NOT TM spells. They are a creature summoned by a summoning spell. Summoning spells use TM to determine how powerful a zombie is because there it happens to be the most logical magical skill to use (all the others save debilitation can be trained out of combat).
I think I understand the hangup. Zombies are NOT TM spells. They are a creature summoned by a summoning spell. Summoning spells use TM to determine how powerful a zombie is because there it happens to be the most logical magical skill to use (all the others save debilitation can be trained out of combat).
DBABIASH
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:20 PM CST
>>I could have sworn reading that the difference was rather minor, but I could be wrong. I don't feel like there's a notable difference between a ship rat zombie and a mountain giant zombie for me, at least.
My Necro is pretty young, so I am going off of what I have read and the way similar spells work. However, I have no practice with this near caps, so it is just as likely that you are right and I am wrong. The way I understand it though, with similar mana casts, the different critters would have a small but noticeable affect on the strength of the resultant zombie. There should be a significantly noticeable variance in strength when talking about a rat at a min-prep CFB vs a mountain giant at a max-prep CFB. Is this not your experience?
My Necro is pretty young, so I am going off of what I have read and the way similar spells work. However, I have no practice with this near caps, so it is just as likely that you are right and I am wrong. The way I understand it though, with similar mana casts, the different critters would have a small but noticeable affect on the strength of the resultant zombie. There should be a significantly noticeable variance in strength when talking about a rat at a min-prep CFB vs a mountain giant at a max-prep CFB. Is this not your experience?
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:28 PM CST
>>The way I understand it though, with similar mana casts, the different critters would have a small but noticeable affect on the strength of the resultant zombie. There should be a significantly noticeable variance in strength when talking about a rat at a min-prep CFB vs a mountain giant at a max-prep CFB. Is this not your experience?
IMO, the prep of CFB matters wayyyyyy more than what you're using to make the zombie. That said, it's entirely possible I just don't appreciate (or notice!) the critter-usage difference.
In other words, in your scenario casting CFB at minimum is going to be what influences the quality of zombie you get a lot more than using a ship rat as your base material.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IMO, the prep of CFB matters wayyyyyy more than what you're using to make the zombie. That said, it's entirely possible I just don't appreciate (or notice!) the critter-usage difference.
In other words, in your scenario casting CFB at minimum is going to be what influences the quality of zombie you get a lot more than using a ship rat as your base material.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 03:58 PM CST
He just likes to troll, and antagonize the Dev GM's. Even for his own guild sadly.
NINEVAH1
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 04:23 PM CST
>>Prediction, the ability to buff any skill regardless of SOI, skillset, whatever. Most guilds have to use sorcery, and can only have 2 spells recognized at any one time to provide this effect. The point was, that some things are different guild to guild. Necromancers were made to basically be a pet class guild, so its hard to compare the abilities said pets can use. I no longer even play a Necromancer, I actually play a MM as main. There like I said, are a lot of drawbacks to relying on zombies.
This.
I find it pretty amusing that you complained about a lack of flavor in TM spells in your TKT thread, and now you are making a similar fuss over things that gives another guild flavor. The same argument you are making about zombies using bows (but not melee weapons?) can be made of the MM guild and the fact that they can buff every skill in the game.
I'm not sure what your whole point with this thread was other than to complain that someone has something you don't.
This.
I find it pretty amusing that you complained about a lack of flavor in TM spells in your TKT thread, and now you are making a similar fuss over things that gives another guild flavor. The same argument you are making about zombies using bows (but not melee weapons?) can be made of the MM guild and the fact that they can buff every skill in the game.
I'm not sure what your whole point with this thread was other than to complain that someone has something you don't.
SHAWN255
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 04:37 PM CST
The amount of passive-aggressiveness coming from aerovir is astounding... take a step back bud. No one so far is unfairly defending anything.. they have just explained how it works and what the justification is..
A zombie is creature.
How strong the creature is, is determined by a mixture of skills - which does include tm.
Zombies can equip weapons. By design. It is intentional and planned to be that way.
Just because tm goes into creating a zombie, does not mean necros are somehow converting tm ranks into weapon ranks.
You are posting like zombies are this huge advantage that are unbalanced because they can convert their damage type from magic to mundane... and yet seem insistent upon ignoring all the downsides to it as well. Or that other spells do this as well.
You also refuse to clarify if this anger is from a pve or pvp viewpoint.
Pve.. nothing you are saying really matters. Since critters in general have more physical resistance than magic. So it really isnt some huge gain that way vs just using tm based spells.
Pvp.. I dont pvp so you would have to ask others.. but I cant see it being that hard to avoid it.. even if it has a dreaded bow.
So if the complaint is that the damage can be improved because even after you create the zombie you can further enhance it by giving it weapons... you are preaching in the wrong place. Because that is 100% by design and is what they wanted it to do. If you want you can even look at it as a multi-step spell.. and that thr powerscale for it includes the after-creation adding of weapons. So yes even player made weapons are accounted into the creation of a zombie...
All of which is far more complex than simply casting tkt or any other tm spell... so nuch so that even trying to compare them is just flat out asinine.
A zombie is creature.
How strong the creature is, is determined by a mixture of skills - which does include tm.
Zombies can equip weapons. By design. It is intentional and planned to be that way.
Just because tm goes into creating a zombie, does not mean necros are somehow converting tm ranks into weapon ranks.
You are posting like zombies are this huge advantage that are unbalanced because they can convert their damage type from magic to mundane... and yet seem insistent upon ignoring all the downsides to it as well. Or that other spells do this as well.
You also refuse to clarify if this anger is from a pve or pvp viewpoint.
Pve.. nothing you are saying really matters. Since critters in general have more physical resistance than magic. So it really isnt some huge gain that way vs just using tm based spells.
Pvp.. I dont pvp so you would have to ask others.. but I cant see it being that hard to avoid it.. even if it has a dreaded bow.
So if the complaint is that the damage can be improved because even after you create the zombie you can further enhance it by giving it weapons... you are preaching in the wrong place. Because that is 100% by design and is what they wanted it to do. If you want you can even look at it as a multi-step spell.. and that thr powerscale for it includes the after-creation adding of weapons. So yes even player made weapons are accounted into the creation of a zombie...
All of which is far more complex than simply casting tkt or any other tm spell... so nuch so that even trying to compare them is just flat out asinine.
BADGOPHER
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 05:12 PM CST
I just want to say that this thread has really made an otherwise unremarkable day shine.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 05:30 PM CST
As an aside, it would be nice if the zombie offensive special kept someone from treating back to missile for a few seconds. Maybe require them to break a grapple on the zombie or something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
THAYET
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 05:57 PM CST
I wonder how he'll feel about TM Foci?
>> As an aside, it would be nice if the zombie offensive special kept someone from treating back to missile for a few seconds. Maybe require them to break a grapple on the zombie or something.
I've asked for this before as well. Would make it a lot more useful in PvP IMO.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
>> As an aside, it would be nice if the zombie offensive special kept someone from treating back to missile for a few seconds. Maybe require them to break a grapple on the zombie or something.
I've asked for this before as well. Would make it a lot more useful in PvP IMO.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/25/2016 06:04 PM CST
>>Sure I was snarky somewhat after the dubious replies
Dude your first post amounted to "it seems dumb". This thread was going to be a garbage fire right out the gate.
>>I've asked for this before as well. Would make it a lot more useful in PvP IMO.
As long as we're making this thread useful, it would be neat if the defensive special being used in PvP prevented retreat and maybe gave the target a temporary offensive buff and defensive debuff (TAUNTS MAKE THEM SO ANG-GREE etc). That one is pretty toothless in PvP as it stands.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Dude your first post amounted to "it seems dumb". This thread was going to be a garbage fire right out the gate.
>>I've asked for this before as well. Would make it a lot more useful in PvP IMO.
As long as we're making this thread useful, it would be neat if the defensive special being used in PvP prevented retreat and maybe gave the target a temporary offensive buff and defensive debuff (TAUNTS MAKE THEM SO ANG-GREE etc). That one is pretty toothless in PvP as it stands.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-HELJE
Re: Bows And Zombies ::CLOSED::
02/25/2016 06:07 PM CST
This thread is now closed. Further posts will result in escalated actions against your account.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
If you have a question about the forums, please email me Senior Board Moderator Helje at DR-Helje@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
If you have a question about the forums, please email me Senior Board Moderator Helje at DR-Helje@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net
SHADOW7988
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/28/2016 07:04 PM CST
So far this IS my take home points:
>Esoteric arguments are esoteric.
But more importantly!
>That said I always get a dumb grin on my face when I give my zombie a blessed weapon to fight other undead with.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
>Esoteric arguments are esoteric.
But more importantly!
>That said I always get a dumb grin on my face when I give my zombie a blessed weapon to fight other undead with.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/28/2016 07:05 PM CST
The OOC or out right dualboxing involved in that last point make me sigh and shake my head.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/28/2016 07:08 PM CST
It's questionable if there's a Cleric involved that knows exactly what is happening to the weapon, but neither of those cases are mandatory.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
THAYET
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/28/2016 07:16 PM CST
Ahem.
> get scept
You get an iron scepter missing its finials from inside your thigh bag.
> wave scept at shot
You wave your iron scepter at a haralun shotel.
A brilliant silver glow surrounds the shotel.
Kertigen Commune is better though. Bigger damage boost.
Not everyone that is friendly with Clerics is being OOC or dualboxing, either.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
> get scept
You get an iron scepter missing its finials from inside your thigh bag.
> wave scept at shot
You wave your iron scepter at a haralun shotel.
A brilliant silver glow surrounds the shotel.
Kertigen Commune is better though. Bigger damage boost.
Not everyone that is friendly with Clerics is being OOC or dualboxing, either.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Bows And Zombies
02/28/2016 07:43 PM CST
>>The OOC or out right dualboxing involved in that last point make me sigh and shake my head.
Why is it OOC or dual boxing to give a zombie a blessed weapon?
Oh, important side note: I do this without a cleric or a second account involved.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Why is it OOC or dual boxing to give a zombie a blessed weapon?
Oh, important side note: I do this without a cleric or a second account involved.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ANNWYL
Re: Bows And Zombies ::Thread STILL over::
02/28/2016 08:21 PM CST
This one is still done.
If there is a complaint you would like to post, please feel free to make a constructive post about your concerns.
Reminder: This is the Complaint folder, not the Conflict folder.
Annwyl
Message Board Supervisor
If you've questions or comments, take it to e-mail by writing me at DR-Annwyl@play.net.
