Anybody else sick and tired of not being able to use their vault? How long does it actually take to get your SO down enough to use the vault? I just don't feel this is right. Those are my items in there and I want access to them when I actually need them, not a week later after sitting around doing NON necro stuff. I mean my character is a necro, why should he pretend not to be one just to access his items? Anyone else feel this way? Maybe we could have a guild specific vault in our guild location like the rangers do in boar clan? I just don't agree with the way the system works right now. Can I get an AMEN?
CURTISJ5
THAYET
Re: Services
01/03/2016 05:26 PM CST
Honestly, it's reeeeally easy to avoid levels of SO where you start getting locked out of town services. If you do heck up and get that much SO (hey it happens), it won't take longer than a few weeks if you've hit the cap provided you stop doing things that give you more SO.
There are also fest items that will temporarily zero out your SO and let you use town services. My toon happens to have one they don't mind loaning out to people who pose the question sufficiently graciously and/or generously.
Given the multitude of ways we have of avoiding or dealing with SO, I don't particularly think this aspect of it is especially onerous personally.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
There are also fest items that will temporarily zero out your SO and let you use town services. My toon happens to have one they don't mind loaning out to people who pose the question sufficiently graciously and/or generously.
Given the multitude of ways we have of avoiding or dealing with SO, I don't particularly think this aspect of it is especially onerous personally.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
BADGOPHER
ABSOLON
Re: Services
01/03/2016 05:30 PM CST
<<Those are my items in there and I want access to them when I actually need them, not a week later after sitting around doing NON necro stuff. I mean my character is a necro, why should he pretend not to be one just to access his items?
You can be as necromancery as you want while retaining or waiting for access. Being a necromancer that does necromancer things results in DO which has nothing to do with vault access. Being in a justice area and doing or being accused of necromancer things is what causes you to gain and not drain SO, which is what vault access is based on.
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You can be as necromancery as you want while retaining or waiting for access. Being a necromancer that does necromancer things results in DO which has nothing to do with vault access. Being in a justice area and doing or being accused of necromancer things is what causes you to gain and not drain SO, which is what vault access is based on.
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CURTISJ5
Re: Services
01/03/2016 05:59 PM CST
So how long approximately does it take to drain down a maxed SO to be able to use services?
CURTISJ5
Re: Services
01/03/2016 06:01 PM CST
And I still think a guild specific vault for necros would be a good idea.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Services
01/03/2016 06:15 PM CST
Can vaults (and banks, I suppose!) in non-justice zones be used by necros still?
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
THAYET
Re: Services
01/03/2016 07:23 PM CST
>> So how long approximately does it take to drain down a maxed SO to be able to use services?
Getting yourself below 50% from the cap shouldn't take longer than 2 or 3 weeks I think.
>> And I still think a guild specific vault for necros would be a good idea.
IIRC this is one of the niches Igors will serve.
>> Can vaults (and banks, I suppose!) in non-justice zones be used by necros still?
They cannot. I had opportunity to check with Dirge's and it will still trigger even though you aren't given a new charge or arrested. Whether it still gives you SO, I can't tell, since there's no easy way for me to measure that.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Getting yourself below 50% from the cap shouldn't take longer than 2 or 3 weeks I think.
>> And I still think a guild specific vault for necros would be a good idea.
IIRC this is one of the niches Igors will serve.
>> Can vaults (and banks, I suppose!) in non-justice zones be used by necros still?
They cannot. I had opportunity to check with Dirge's and it will still trigger even though you aren't given a new charge or arrested. Whether it still gives you SO, I can't tell, since there's no easy way for me to measure that.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
CHUNGUS
Re: Services
01/04/2016 12:24 AM CST
<<And I still think a guild specific vault for necros would be a good idea.>>
The temporary lack of access to vaults and other town services when you've sufficiently pissed off the town is not something they just 'forgot about', but a conscious design decision to inform Necromancer play. If it was something they wanted you to circumvent entirely with a 'guild vault', that would have been in from the start.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Services
01/04/2016 01:13 AM CST
>>If it was something they wanted you to circumvent entirely with a 'guild vault', that would have been in from the start.
Eh, when the guild first started there was a set view to not let people have a way to [non-SRE] depart and not leave a grave, because Necros shouldn't want to hold onto fun things. Now there's a way to do it within a limited timeframe and the cost of a spell slot. I'm glad for that decision.
IMO, my current expectation is that if there are ever non-justice-zone banks/vaults, that's when Necros will have access to them while under SO. Not a direct result of being a Necro, but more a direct result of a specific area just not having an interest in the law on a grander scale for whatever reason.
That said, it wouldn't shock me if Armifer develops a third level of justice in that case, where the locals are totally lawless except for Necromancy. Who knows.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Eh, when the guild first started there was a set view to not let people have a way to [non-SRE] depart and not leave a grave, because Necros shouldn't want to hold onto fun things. Now there's a way to do it within a limited timeframe and the cost of a spell slot. I'm glad for that decision.
IMO, my current expectation is that if there are ever non-justice-zone banks/vaults, that's when Necros will have access to them while under SO. Not a direct result of being a Necro, but more a direct result of a specific area just not having an interest in the law on a grander scale for whatever reason.
That said, it wouldn't shock me if Armifer develops a third level of justice in that case, where the locals are totally lawless except for Necromancy. Who knows.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Services
01/04/2016 03:03 AM CST
>>>>They cannot. I had opportunity to check with Dirge's and it will still trigger even though you aren't given a new charge or arrested. Whether it still gives you SO, I can't tell, since there's no easy way for me to measure that.
That is sort of interesting when I think about. Last time I checked (a few years ago) in any unusual justice areas you could cast a transcendental buff and dance around in from the mayor and no one cared. The banks may not take into account what the type of justice that is enforced has to say about necromancy.
That is sort of interesting when I think about. Last time I checked (a few years ago) in any unusual justice areas you could cast a transcendental buff and dance around in from the mayor and no one cared. The banks may not take into account what the type of justice that is enforced has to say about necromancy.
THAYET
Re: Services
01/04/2016 03:13 PM CST
Correct. The bank might actually be clear now that I think about it. The vault in particular though will prevent you from going in with the usual fanfare.
I'm not eager to accidentally walk outside with my Necromancer title up again to test it though :V
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
I'm not eager to accidentally walk outside with my Necromancer title up again to test it though :V
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
RAISER
Re: Services
01/09/2016 02:43 AM CST
And, hopefully this doesn't ruin anything or violate anything, but, there is a guild leader that will tell you how long you have to hide out for until it's safe to do town stuff again. I don't want to violate anything so I'll just say this: wording is key when you ask about your perverse necromantic ways.
MICHAELP2002
Re: Services
01/09/2016 12:30 PM CST
Never had an issue with services. I did briefly consider helping in the invasion last night, but wasn't sure how much or what I could cast in town before risk loss of services I hardly use. So I didn't. I hope it burned to the ground.
CURTISJ5
Re: Services
02/01/2016 03:16 AM CST
Can vaults (and banks, I suppose!) in non-justice zones be used by necros still?
I do not know of a vault in a non-justice area, but I do know that you can use the premium bank at fang cove and the bank on hara'jaal. Is there a vault in a non-justice area?
THAYET
Re: Services
02/01/2016 03:22 AM CST
There is, and no, it cannot be used.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
NASTY8
Re: Services
02/01/2016 10:00 PM CST
I completely understand where the OP is coming from. Who wants to wait 2-3 weeks to access their items? What's fun about that?
Why don't game designers understand that penalties aren't fun? It's not a hard concept. Things should be made in such a way that every guild feels jealous about what the other guy has. That's what creates amazing balance and longevity. Not penalties and negatives and downsides.
We play these characters for years and years and years and accumulating cool, unique items is a major part of character development. Care about items? Don't play a Necro! Really? Forcing someone to miss the boat on building up a stash of loot is a big fat whiff in my book.
-Nate
Why don't game designers understand that penalties aren't fun? It's not a hard concept. Things should be made in such a way that every guild feels jealous about what the other guy has. That's what creates amazing balance and longevity. Not penalties and negatives and downsides.
We play these characters for years and years and years and accumulating cool, unique items is a major part of character development. Care about items? Don't play a Necro! Really? Forcing someone to miss the boat on building up a stash of loot is a big fat whiff in my book.
-Nate
THAYET
Re: Services
02/01/2016 10:20 PM CST
SO is not difficult to manage. If you are climbing to levels of SO where you are barred from vault access for weeks, you have not only screwed up, you have screwed up repeatedly and badly. For the concept of Necromancer as pariah to have any teeth at all, you need to be able to lose access to things you care about when that happens. All that said, it's not even permanent. Just cool your jets for awhile and you'll have access to your stuff again. You aren't actually losing anything, just getting it taken away for awhile.
The irony of this complaint is that in the past few months we have received every tool we need to preserve our inventories as well as any other kind of character. Previously, graverobbing a Necromancer was as simple as killing them with Harm Evil or camping them after they used SRE. Now at least you have a way to keep your stuff in every circumstance if you plan smartly.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
The irony of this complaint is that in the past few months we have received every tool we need to preserve our inventories as well as any other kind of character. Previously, graverobbing a Necromancer was as simple as killing them with Harm Evil or camping them after they used SRE. Now at least you have a way to keep your stuff in every circumstance if you plan smartly.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Services
02/02/2016 07:46 AM CST
>We play these characters for years and years and years and accumulating cool, unique items is a major part of character development. Care about items? Don't play a Necro! Really? Forcing someone to miss the boat on building up a stash of loot is a big fat whiff in my book.
I main a Necro, rarely if ever use my vault and still very much can, and have never lost all my items. The guild requires a bit of thinking and finesse to keep things that way, and if you couldn't swing it, honestly, the guild may not be for you.
Consider this a guild perk. SO is something you have to manage, interact with, as minimally as it already stands, just like how a Moon Mage has to interact with and manage Fate/Observations, or a Cleric has to manage Devotion. Your post is somewhat akin to a Cleric complaining that because they tanked their Devotion some of their spells don't work anymore.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Services
02/02/2016 09:17 AM CST
Yes, really, don't play a Necro if you're unable or unwilling to deal with one of its iconic features.
I am not worried about a refusal to play a Necromancer being an indictment against the guild's design; both because it actually shows an admirable bit of introspection on the complainer's part, and because frankly the Necromancer population has exploded over the past year and I was happy when it was half the number.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
I am not worried about a refusal to play a Necromancer being an indictment against the guild's design; both because it actually shows an admirable bit of introspection on the complainer's part, and because frankly the Necromancer population has exploded over the past year and I was happy when it was half the number.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Services
02/02/2016 09:51 AM CST
With the advent of CRE, it looks like team evil is trying to meet us halfway by accepting that having "stuff" is a notable aspect of DragonRealms (let alone a major drive for paying additional $ for things like quests which result in more "stuff"), despite the original guild stance of "never love anything you have". So Necros have to put some skin in the game to get a depart full, but even that's reasonable given the other benefits (like not needing favors to do it).
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TVOLK1
NASTY8
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:01 PM CST
I've been playing the game since like 97 too. Hard mode isn't the problem. I just want to be able to accumulate cool "stuff", that's all.
-Nate
-Nate
ABSOLON
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:04 PM CST
You can. You just don't always have access to it if you fly in the face of justice all the time.
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TEVESHSZAT
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:11 PM CST
Sometimes I wonder if there is data on how many necros feel inconvenienced as a result of other-player-given SO and how many feel inconvenienced due to self-inflicted SO.
Mainly because I kinda get where the former is coming from, but I also know why that exists to begin with.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Mainly because I kinda get where the former is coming from, but I also know why that exists to begin with.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ABSOLON
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:17 PM CST
<<Sometimes I wonder if there is data on how many necros feel inconvenienced as a result of other-player-given SO and how many feel inconvenienced due to self-inflicted SO.
IMO, those are one and the same since you can avoid the former by not parking yourself in a justice area.
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IMO, those are one and the same since you can avoid the former by not parking yourself in a justice area.
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SHAWN255
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:17 PM CST
I hated SO to begin with (and it definitely isnt explained well to new necromancers at all)... but now just avoid people completely so it hasnt been a problem for years. I can use my bank and vault whenever.
THAYET
Re: Services
02/02/2016 06:21 PM CST
>> IMO, those are one and the same since you can avoid the former by not parking yourself in a justice area.
Honestly one or two accuses won't get you high enough to lock you out (saving the short-term hour-long spike) either. So even if you do get nailed once in awhile, you just need to play conservatively for a bit. You actually kind of have to work to get beyond that.
My biggest SO screw up was accidentally walking outside with the Necromancer title. That lasted about two days before I dropped below 50%. People getting locked out for weeks have very little sympathy from me because that points to a pattern of repeated, deliberate behavior and aggressively not getting the hint.
Or AFK scripting in a justice area. That seems to do the trick for a number of not very smart Necromancers.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Honestly one or two accuses won't get you high enough to lock you out (saving the short-term hour-long spike) either. So even if you do get nailed once in awhile, you just need to play conservatively for a bit. You actually kind of have to work to get beyond that.
My biggest SO screw up was accidentally walking outside with the Necromancer title. That lasted about two days before I dropped below 50%. People getting locked out for weeks have very little sympathy from me because that points to a pattern of repeated, deliberate behavior and aggressively not getting the hint.
Or AFK scripting in a justice area. That seems to do the trick for a number of not very smart Necromancers.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
NASTY8
Re: Services
02/02/2016 07:38 PM CST
>>iconic features
With all due respect, I guess our definitions of what a feature is must differ slightly. Drawbacks =/= features.
>>I was happy when it was half the number
This makes no sense to me. As a game designer, why would you ever want to limit the amount of people enjoying your work? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Don't we want DR to explode to the point that thousands of people are playing every guild?
>>avoid people completely
Is this how you're supposed to play an MMORPG?
For what it's worth, I think Armifer has been doing amazing work lately with all the updates he's been churning out. I don't want this discussion to overshadow that.
-Nate
With all due respect, I guess our definitions of what a feature is must differ slightly. Drawbacks =/= features.
>>I was happy when it was half the number
This makes no sense to me. As a game designer, why would you ever want to limit the amount of people enjoying your work? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Don't we want DR to explode to the point that thousands of people are playing every guild?
>>avoid people completely
Is this how you're supposed to play an MMORPG?
For what it's worth, I think Armifer has been doing amazing work lately with all the updates he's been churning out. I don't want this discussion to overshadow that.
-Nate
SHAWN255
Re: Services
02/02/2016 08:00 PM CST
I have stated before that i find the guild flawed at a conceptual level in a lot of ways.. one of them how it fits into an mmo.. but there is still a lot to enjoy as well. Just gotta learn how to avoid the penalties and advocate for change. Things have been getting a lot better.
BADGOPHER
Re: Services
02/02/2016 08:38 PM CST
>I have stated before that i find the guild flawed at a conceptual level in a lot of ways
I always thought that was the point, though? I choose not to play one because the drawbacks are a hassle I don't want to deal with, and Armifer has said that's his design goal (not to keep me, specifically, out. That's just a side benefit).
I always thought that was the point, though? I choose not to play one because the drawbacks are a hassle I don't want to deal with, and Armifer has said that's his design goal (not to keep me, specifically, out. That's just a side benefit).
DR-RAESH
Re: Services
02/02/2016 08:50 PM CST
There are 10 guilds "for everybody". There is one guild that will only appeal to some people. That's okay.
Not everyone plays XCOM on ironman mode.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Not everyone plays XCOM on ironman mode.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Services
02/03/2016 07:30 AM CST
People who are locked out of services have done something wrong. The guild is very clear about what to expect and what can happen - if you're surprised when it does, that's your own fault. I find it somewhat telling, and I don't mean this to be confrontational, that every time someone brings up the topic of wanting to change SO, they conveniently neglect to mention how they tanked their SO in the first place.
>Not everyone plays XCOM on ironman mode.
Ugh, because that's preposterous why would you even WHAT ABOUT THE TENTACLAUTS? I don't even play Tales of Maj'Eyal on normal.
>Not everyone plays XCOM on ironman mode.
Ugh, because that's preposterous why would you even WHAT ABOUT THE TENTACLAUTS? I don't even play Tales of Maj'Eyal on normal.
HERALD42
Re: Services
02/03/2016 07:33 AM CST
>>Not everyone plays XCOM on ironman mode.
You're right. Some of us insist on Impossible Ironman.
I didn't choose the Necrolife. The Necrolife chose me.
"Nobody cares about the feasibility of Sidhlot's portrayal of evil. That's not the point. He's older than dragons and so metal he poops viking helmets." - Armifer
"That is so not how magic works." -Raesh
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu-proxy R'lyeh
You're right. Some of us insist on Impossible Ironman.
I didn't choose the Necrolife. The Necrolife chose me.
"Nobody cares about the feasibility of Sidhlot's portrayal of evil. That's not the point. He's older than dragons and so metal he poops viking helmets." - Armifer
"That is so not how magic works." -Raesh
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu-proxy R'lyeh
CHUCKWIZ
Re: Services
08/04/2017 03:44 AM CDT
I love the inconvence of playing a necro! Those who don't, never will!
And for revenge thou hast created this demon. Her domain is darkness - her purpose is wickedness- Dead Sea Scrolls
