After a long hiatus from training, I decided to try shoplifting again. In the course of discovering items to steal, I was caught stealing 6 times. This is not atypical for someone who trains stealing and doesn't have the ability to mark items. This was enough for the town to become convinced I am a necromancer.
I get that you're supposed to keep a low profile, but practicing shoplifting is a great backup plan for a necromancer. There are some items that are only sold in shops. I get that there's workarounds, but I'm just not sold on the shoplifting-necromancer connection. If anything, the town should assume I'm a lowly thief and take solace in the fact that I'm probably NOT a necromancer.
But more than anything, it bothers me that I can walk around in town without worry looking like a necromancer, but humbly stealing a couple times gets me outed almost immediately.
DRSCOTT
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 06:30 PM CST
>I get that you're supposed to keep a low profile, but practicing shoplifting is a great backup plan for a necromancer. There are some items that are only sold in shops.
I'm genuinely curious, but what?
>But more than anything, it bothers me that I can walk around in town without worry looking like a necromancer, but humbly stealing a couple times gets me outed almost immediately.
I agree, though I think the idea is supposed to be that the more social contact Necromancers have with the public, the more likely someone is going to notice them muttering into their soup, so to speak.
ALGOTHI
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 06:36 PM CST
>But more than anything, it bothers me that I can walk around in town without worry looking like a necromancer, but humbly stealing a couple times gets me outed almost immediately.
If it were somehow easy to flag people who looked like a Necromancer, I have no doubt that it would be made to cause massive SO. I mean, aside from the "Please Burn Me, I am Stupid" clothing items we see in fest shops.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
If it were somehow easy to flag people who looked like a Necromancer, I have no doubt that it would be made to cause massive SO. I mean, aside from the "Please Burn Me, I am Stupid" clothing items we see in fest shops.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 08:22 PM CST
>I'm genuinely curious, but what?
Belt knives?
Aside from that, you 'can' craft everything but it would be a bit tiresome. Stealing makes some sense for certain types of necromancers, and they're survival prime.
Maybe a spell that kills the SO hit from stealing, at some other cost. Like you make your mudman/zombie rampage around town drawing all the attention away from you.
Belt knives?
Aside from that, you 'can' craft everything but it would be a bit tiresome. Stealing makes some sense for certain types of necromancers, and they're survival prime.
Maybe a spell that kills the SO hit from stealing, at some other cost. Like you make your mudman/zombie rampage around town drawing all the attention away from you.
ABSOLON
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 08:59 PM CST
Or have a stealthy zombie with the capability of stealing on your behalf?
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DRSCOTT
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 11:24 PM CST
>Aside from that, you 'can' craft everything but it would be a bit tiresome. Stealing makes some sense for certain types of necromancers, and they're survival prime.
Yes, but where do you get crafting materials? Well you buy them from shopkeepers that don't currently check for social outrage. To me that's more of a short term oversight. Eventually, I'd expect all shopkeepers to refuse to do business with characters with high social outrage.
Plus, let's assume the townsfolk are already after you, but you need item x (lockpick, mortar, whatever). If you can't steal it, you're out of luck.
I'd really like to RP my necromancer as someone who is self-reliant, and shoplifting definitely helps there. To me, it makes sense to train the skill. For now I'll endure constant SO in order to do so.
Yes, but where do you get crafting materials? Well you buy them from shopkeepers that don't currently check for social outrage. To me that's more of a short term oversight. Eventually, I'd expect all shopkeepers to refuse to do business with characters with high social outrage.
Plus, let's assume the townsfolk are already after you, but you need item x (lockpick, mortar, whatever). If you can't steal it, you're out of luck.
I'd really like to RP my necromancer as someone who is self-reliant, and shoplifting definitely helps there. To me, it makes sense to train the skill. For now I'll endure constant SO in order to do so.
DRSCOTT
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/26/2015 11:24 PM CST
>If it were somehow easy to flag people who looked like a Necromancer, I have no doubt that it would be made to cause massive SO. I mean, aside from the "Please Burn Me, I am Stupid" clothing items we see in fest shops.
I was referring to the visible spell effects such as whitened ridges, etc.
I was referring to the visible spell effects such as whitened ridges, etc.
ALGOTHI
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/27/2015 01:53 AM CST
>I'm genuinely curious, but what?
>Belt knives?
Eh, not really difficult. You can afford one after 10 minutes of hunting goblins, and they are sold in places a Necromancer need not fear being torched. If you have SO problems, risking getting caught while stealing is a pretty bad idea. If you don't have SO problems, just buy the things and move on, dont tempt fate.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
>Belt knives?
Eh, not really difficult. You can afford one after 10 minutes of hunting goblins, and they are sold in places a Necromancer need not fear being torched. If you have SO problems, risking getting caught while stealing is a pretty bad idea. If you don't have SO problems, just buy the things and move on, dont tempt fate.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/27/2015 09:08 AM CST
>I'd really like to RP my necromancer as someone who is self-reliant, and shoplifting definitely helps there. To me, it makes sense to train the skill. For now I'll endure constant SO in order to do so.
I completely understand this desire, but given the mixed shop mechanics of craft halls and shops, given how useless most storebought stuff is, I think we should just have some kind of immobile Shadow Servant-esque vaulting capacity. I agree, self-sufficiency is key, but most players today have more than one character, so in the event your Necromancer loses everything, it's not to difficult to just toss over some items. Stealing is a kind of mediocre approach I feel, given how little there is that's useful to steal.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/27/2015 09:16 AM CST
>>I think we should just have some kind of immobile Shadow Servant-esque vaulting capacity
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that thats never going to happen. Necromancers are supposed to have it a bit on the rough side when it comes to material possessions. Some gameplay concessions have been made for the guild, like the crafting NPCs ignoring Justice so that all players have decent access to working all the skills.
Does it prove occasionally annoying to run that element of risk when it comes to nice things? Sure. That said, I've managed to only lose the odd thrown on my necro and have found decent work arounds. As long as you keep some awareness of who/what you are, you can easily protect your goodies 99% of the time anywho. Unless you're the type who attacks GMPCs for funzies SO is very manageable anyways.
Samsaren
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that thats never going to happen. Necromancers are supposed to have it a bit on the rough side when it comes to material possessions. Some gameplay concessions have been made for the guild, like the crafting NPCs ignoring Justice so that all players have decent access to working all the skills.
Does it prove occasionally annoying to run that element of risk when it comes to nice things? Sure. That said, I've managed to only lose the odd thrown on my necro and have found decent work arounds. As long as you keep some awareness of who/what you are, you can easily protect your goodies 99% of the time anywho. Unless you're the type who attacks GMPCs for funzies SO is very manageable anyways.
Samsaren
DRSCOTT
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/28/2015 10:09 AM CST
>I agree, self-sufficiency is key, but most players today have more than one character, so in the event your Necromancer loses everything, it's not to difficult to just toss over some items.
I agree that this is what everyone does. I just hate that this is the way to do it. I really like the idea of being self-reliant and I try to train my character that way. Obviously the shoplifting complaint is a small part of a much larger related issue. Players are really good at circumventing mechanics that they don't like.
I totally understand why the pitchfork mob would go after a known necromancer caught shoplifting. I just don't think you should be suspected of necromancy for stealing in the first place. Clearly the justice system can't distinguish what guild you're in or professional thieves would never be let out of jail.
I agree that this is what everyone does. I just hate that this is the way to do it. I really like the idea of being self-reliant and I try to train my character that way. Obviously the shoplifting complaint is a small part of a much larger related issue. Players are really good at circumventing mechanics that they don't like.
I totally understand why the pitchfork mob would go after a known necromancer caught shoplifting. I just don't think you should be suspected of necromancy for stealing in the first place. Clearly the justice system can't distinguish what guild you're in or professional thieves would never be let out of jail.
ORBITAL303
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/28/2015 12:20 PM CST
I believe the idea is that you have little 'tells' as a necromancer (which explains how even if you are just hanging out in a justice area not doing anything, you gain SO) and that if you are actively doing something to draw negative attention (stealing), this can be pushed over the pitchfork threshhold if you are caught.
It isn't so much that being caught stealing reveals you as a necromancer, it is more that society already was looking at you funny and getting caught stealing made all the little old ladies be like "I always knew that Copernicus chap was no good! I bet he carves up people in his spare time, too". Then someone overhears that in a morbid game of telephone and suddenly you're on fire.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard
It isn't so much that being caught stealing reveals you as a necromancer, it is more that society already was looking at you funny and getting caught stealing made all the little old ladies be like "I always knew that Copernicus chap was no good! I bet he carves up people in his spare time, too". Then someone overhears that in a morbid game of telephone and suddenly you're on fire.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/28/2015 01:15 PM CST
>>But more than anything, it bothers me that I can walk around in town without worry looking like a necromancer, but humbly stealing a couple times gets me outed almost immediately.
I think it's more that the game by default assumes you're the type of person who is exceptionally well known, so you're not being outed as much as someone stating an obvious truth ("Hey, that's Bob, the Necromancer"). When you have blatant "tells" up (Like having Trans spells up) it's not you outing yourself as much as just making it easy for people to notice you in the crowd.
While I wish there was a mechanic that not only gauged SO but also highlighted your specific notability/notoriety (so along with a system which allowed people to be mad at you for being a necro, another system that gauged how common knowledge it was for you in particular to be a Necro), that just isn't in the cards right now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think it's more that the game by default assumes you're the type of person who is exceptionally well known, so you're not being outed as much as someone stating an obvious truth ("Hey, that's Bob, the Necromancer"). When you have blatant "tells" up (Like having Trans spells up) it's not you outing yourself as much as just making it easy for people to notice you in the crowd.
While I wish there was a mechanic that not only gauged SO but also highlighted your specific notability/notoriety (so along with a system which allowed people to be mad at you for being a necro, another system that gauged how common knowledge it was for you in particular to be a Necro), that just isn't in the cards right now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DRSCOTT
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/29/2015 01:09 PM CST
>I always knew that Copernicus chap was no good! I bet he carves up people in his spare time, too
Och, don't slander the poor gnome's good name. Copernicus is a moon mage. His 'brother' Rellie^9^9^9^9^9Anonymous is the necromancer.
Och, don't slander the poor gnome's good name. Copernicus is a moon mage. His 'brother' Rellie^9^9^9^9^9Anonymous is the necromancer.
ORBITAL303
Re: Shoplifting and SO
01/29/2015 01:52 PM CST
>gnome
You people all look the same to me.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
You people all look the same to me.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
