JGAGNON
Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 11:45 AM CDT
I love this guild, but whenever I circle my pleasure turns to swearing and frigging frustration. Trying to choose a spell is a nightmare. You get to see a bunch of spells, I assume I am qualified to choose and for all of them except one, i'm never qualified to choose. Sometimes i'm not even qualified to take 1 spell. I don't know about anyone of you, but for me choosing spells is supposed to be the fun part. On top of that, some spells I can't even use. Chirurgia ask me to cast Bue, but even when Bue is casted, I cant cast it. I cant cast syphon vitality either. Book is no help. Other Necromancer I haven't been able to find, except for 1, and she wasn't willing to help. We need a way to help each other. I'm wondering if that fetish thingies is working. Please, don't show me the spell I can't get, it's an aggravation I don't need. Well, I'm frustrated,...frustrated... frustrated...I sincerely hope that you realize that this situation is freaking Frustrating.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 12:08 PM CDT
You are probably trying to spells which require more open spell slots than you have.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 12:14 PM CDT
Also, Chirurgia is a metaspell that modifies BUE when it is case. You don't need to (and, in fact cannot) cast Chirugia.
ALGOTHI
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 12:22 PM CDT
>Also, Chirurgia is a metaspell that modifies BUE when it is case. You don't need to (and, in fact cannot) cast Chirugia.
To go into this a bit more... When you know Chirurgia and cast BUE, you get the normal Thanatology and Skinning boost, plus an additional LE boost, all of which can be seen when you do an EXP MODS after a cast.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
To go into this a bit more... When you know Chirurgia and cast BUE, you get the normal Thanatology and Skinning boost, plus an additional LE boost, all of which can be seen when you do an EXP MODS after a cast.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
NINEVAH1
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 08:31 PM CDT
I don't know if you are a returning player or a new one, but most spells cost more than one spell slot now. This link will show you what all the Necro spells do, how they work, how many spells slots you need for each, and how many ranks you need to cast them.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Necromancer#Necromancy_Spells.2FProgression.2FSpell_Books
Also, unless I've missed a release fetishes are not live.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Necromancer#Necromancy_Spells.2FProgression.2FSpell_Books
Also, unless I've missed a release fetishes are not live.
DRSCOTT
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/04/2014 11:19 PM CDT
The new spell system is definitely a bit complex and confusing, but it's got so many great new features also. If you have specific questions, definitely ask here, but the elanthipedia page has a lot of good info.
JGAGNON
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 09:08 AM CDT
the spell chirurgia, it say it requires BUE, I cast it, and still, I cannot cast chirurgia. What Am I missing with Syphon Soul, I keep getting i'm lacking, even though I use cut for ritual
DRSCOTT
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 09:34 AM CDT
>the spell chirurgia, it say it requires BUE, I cast it, and still, I cannot cast chirurgia.
If you know Chirurgia, it changes the BUE spell. When you cast BUE, you get the benefit of both spells. You can't actually cast Chirurgia.
If you know Chirurgia, it changes the BUE spell. When you cast BUE, you get the benefit of both spells. You can't actually cast Chirurgia.
NINEVAH1
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 09:38 AM CDT
>>the spell chirurgia, it say it requires BUE, I cast it, and still, I cannot cast chirurgia.
Chirurgia is a meta-spell and it is not castable. You simply cast BUE and the SE boost is applied along with BUE's other buffs. All you have to do is know the spell. When you cast BUE use the EXP MODS command to check what skills are buffed, and you will see SE there on the list.
>>What Am I missing with Syphon Soul, I keep getting i'm lacking, even though I use cut for ritual
Siphon Vitality? That spell looks to be an advanced TM spell, if your TM is below 60-70 you might have trouble casting it, once your TM skill is closer to 100 it will be much easier to cast. You also don't need to use PERFORM CUT, or any other ritual, to use this spell. You just target and cast at a critter with it.
Chirurgia is a meta-spell and it is not castable. You simply cast BUE and the SE boost is applied along with BUE's other buffs. All you have to do is know the spell. When you cast BUE use the EXP MODS command to check what skills are buffed, and you will see SE there on the list.
>>What Am I missing with Syphon Soul, I keep getting i'm lacking, even though I use cut for ritual
Siphon Vitality? That spell looks to be an advanced TM spell, if your TM is below 60-70 you might have trouble casting it, once your TM skill is closer to 100 it will be much easier to cast. You also don't need to use PERFORM CUT, or any other ritual, to use this spell. You just target and cast at a critter with it.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 11:15 AM CDT
Is there any way we could flag metaspells to be more obvious than they are right now? Right now we rely on the description of the spell itself, but information seems to get missed surprisingly often when it's only in the description.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
DRSCOTT
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 11:25 AM CDT
>Is there any way we could flag metaspells to be more obvious than they are right now? Right now we rely on the description of the spell itself, but information seems to get missed surprisingly often when it's only in the description.
I must admit, it confused me a bit when I first came back as well.
Perhaps listing them on a separate line instead of in the respective spellbook?
In the chapter entitled "Synthetic Creation", you have notes on the Acid Splash [acs], Vivisection, Viscous Solution [vs], Researcher's Insight [rei], and Universal Solvent [usol] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Transcendental Necromancy", you have notes on the Butcher's Eye [bue], Calcified Hide [ch], Philosopher's Preservation [php], Worm's Mist [worm], Spiteful Rebirth [sre], and Ivory Mask [ivm] spells.
You have learned the metaspell Kura-Silma [ks], and Chirurgia [chir].
You have temporarily memorized the Air Lash [ala] spell.
I must admit, it confused me a bit when I first came back as well.
Perhaps listing them on a separate line instead of in the respective spellbook?
In the chapter entitled "Synthetic Creation", you have notes on the Acid Splash [acs], Vivisection, Viscous Solution [vs], Researcher's Insight [rei], and Universal Solvent [usol] spells.
In the chapter entitled "Transcendental Necromancy", you have notes on the Butcher's Eye [bue], Calcified Hide [ch], Philosopher's Preservation [php], Worm's Mist [worm], Spiteful Rebirth [sre], and Ivory Mask [ivm] spells.
You have learned the metaspell Kura-Silma [ks], and Chirurgia [chir].
You have temporarily memorized the Air Lash [ala] spell.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 11:39 AM CDT
Not impossible, but I'd shy away from making an entirely new line due to how the lists get setup in the backend.
I like the idea of modifying the spell list though. Would appending [metaspell] after them rather than their (functionally useless) abbreviation help?
Though I guess this still requires that someone know what a metaspell is, which is a concept that we have no explanation for in-game right now. Hrm.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I like the idea of modifying the spell list though. Would appending [metaspell] after them rather than their (functionally useless) abbreviation help?
Though I guess this still requires that someone know what a metaspell is, which is a concept that we have no explanation for in-game right now. Hrm.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
NINEVAH1
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 11:55 AM CDT
>>Would appending [metaspell] after them rather than their (functionally useless) abbreviation help?
I like this.
>>Though I guess this still requires that someone know what a metaspell is, which is a concept that we have no explanation for in-game right now. Hrm.
No idea how easy it would be to do this on the backend, but maybe a quick explanation when one is prepped why you can't prep it?
I like this.
>>Though I guess this still requires that someone know what a metaspell is, which is a concept that we have no explanation for in-game right now. Hrm.
No idea how easy it would be to do this on the backend, but maybe a quick explanation when one is prepped why you can't prep it?
DRSCOTT
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 11:59 AM CDT
That seems like a good idea.
Perhaps even special help messaging if you attempt to prep meta or prep metaspell?
Perhaps even special help messaging if you attempt to prep meta or prep metaspell?
GRIM45
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 12:32 PM CDT
>>Perhaps even special help messaging if you attempt to prep meta or prep metaspell?
Yeah, SRE used to give a special output telling you to stop prepping it before 3.0. I haven't played my necro since 3.0, so not sure if it still does.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Yeah, SRE used to give a special output telling you to stop prepping it before 3.0. I haven't played my necro since 3.0, so not sure if it still does.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 01:50 PM CDT
Appending with '[metaspell]' I think is about as clear as you can be, though, to be honest, the problem with people not knowing it's a metaspell probably has a high comorbidity with those who don't know what a metaspell is.
NINEVAH1
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 02:05 PM CDT
>>Appending with '[metaspell]' I think is about as clear as you can be, though, to be honest, the problem with people not knowing it's a metaspell probably has a high comorbidity with those who don't know what a metaspell is.
True, but I think it will be enough for them to ask somebody to clarify or research the answer themselves, instead of trying to cast what looks like a normal spell with a prep abbreviation that is useless.
There could also be a generic metaspell explanation that is tacked onto the GL speech whenever you pick a metaspell.
True, but I think it will be enough for them to ask somebody to clarify or research the answer themselves, instead of trying to cast what looks like a normal spell with a prep abbreviation that is useless.
There could also be a generic metaspell explanation that is tacked onto the GL speech whenever you pick a metaspell.
CLERIXHAX
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 02:05 PM CDT
>Appending with '[metaspell]' I think is about as clear as you can be, though, to be honest, the problem with people not knowing it's a metaspell probably has a high comorbidity with those who don't know what a metaspell is.
Define the intendment of your erudite vernacular utilization irrespective of necessity.
Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."
Define the intendment of your erudite vernacular utilization irrespective of necessity.
Amiron says, "Even a mute would have said something about this amount of people being about."
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 02:39 PM CDT
Not sure you meant to use 'intendment', but if the word 'comorbidity' is throwing you for a loop; I'm jokingly suggesting people who can't look up 'metaspell' are afflicted with stupidity.
>There could also be a generic metaspell explanation that is tacked onto the GL speech whenever you pick a metaspell.
Another solution could be a very obvious message whenever you try and prepare or cast a metaspell. SRE is pretty obvious, I haven't tested the others.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 03:04 PM CDT
>>>> Another solution could be a very obvious message whenever you try and prepare or cast a metaspell. SRE is pretty obvious, I haven't tested the others.
This is, IMO, probably the best solution since it addresses the problem right at the source. Concluding "oh, I have to cast BUE if I want the chiurgia effect" is most likely to happen if that answer literally smacks them in the face when they try and case the spell.
This is, IMO, probably the best solution since it addresses the problem right at the source. Concluding "oh, I have to cast BUE if I want the chiurgia effect" is most likely to happen if that answer literally smacks them in the face when they try and case the spell.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 03:06 PM CDT
And for what it's worth, I'd like to see more metaspells! I think they represent a very cool additional functionality to existing spells, and provide a good means for enhancing the depth or our spellbooks.
DR-RAESH
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 04:02 PM CDT
>>This is, IMO, probably the best solution since it addresses the problem right at the source. Concluding "oh, I have to cast BUE if I want the chiurgia effect" is most likely to happen if that answer literally smacks them in the face when they try and case the spell.
Uh... it already does that:
>prep chir
Chirurgia alone is an incomplete pattern. It will only manifest through the Butcher's Eye spell.
Most metaspells have similar messaging (All? I'm just too lazy to double check for the sake of a forum post).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Uh... it already does that:
>prep chir
Chirurgia alone is an incomplete pattern. It will only manifest through the Butcher's Eye spell.
Most metaspells have similar messaging (All? I'm just too lazy to double check for the sake of a forum post).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
GRIM45
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 04:40 PM CDT
Maybe changeit to "IT will automatically manifest itself..." ?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 05:10 PM CDT
>Chirurgia alone is an incomplete pattern. It will only manifest through the Butcher's Eye spell.
Hahaha, if it's already there, I don't think anything needs to change. At the very most, perhaps tweak the language to 'Only by casting the Butcher's Eye spell will Chirurgia's effect manifest', which is maybe a little more direct.
I didn't realize that popped up though when you tried casting Chirugia. I'm not sure how much more handholding is required.
ABSOLON
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 05:20 PM CDT
All the metaspells I know have the following line in their DISCERN, and I'm pretty sure it's been like this for a while:
R> discern shmo
Shape Moonblade allows the caster to modify the Moonblade spell matrix making it more flexible. With the added flexibility, a moonblade can be shaped into various weapon types.
This is a metaspell. In general, metaspells are not cast, but instead are prepared, invoked, or passively used to gain some benefit that alters one or more other spells. Before you can learn this spell, you must know Moonblade. It will also cost one spell slot.
You think you could weave at most 0 mana streams into this spell.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
R> discern shmo
Shape Moonblade allows the caster to modify the Moonblade spell matrix making it more flexible. With the added flexibility, a moonblade can be shaped into various weapon types.
This is a metaspell. In general, metaspells are not cast, but instead are prepared, invoked, or passively used to gain some benefit that alters one or more other spells. Before you can learn this spell, you must know Moonblade. It will also cost one spell slot.
You think you could weave at most 0 mana streams into this spell.
Roundtime: 9 sec.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 05:43 PM CDT
>>Is there any way we could flag metaspells to be more obvious than they are right now? Right now we rely on the description of the spell itself, but information seems to get missed surprisingly often when it's only in the description.
What you did with prepping SRE was pretty nifty.
"You start to prep Chimichanga but quickly stop, remembering that the pattern automatically melds itself with Butcher's Eye." or whatever.
edit
>>Uh... it already does that:
>>>prep chir
>>Chirurgia alone is an incomplete pattern. It will only manifest through the Butcher's Eye spell.
Woops, nevermind. Short of explaining it more blatantly, I'm not sure how to explain it to people not getting what happens when you prep it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
What you did with prepping SRE was pretty nifty.
"You start to prep Chimichanga but quickly stop, remembering that the pattern automatically melds itself with Butcher's Eye." or whatever.
edit
>>Uh... it already does that:
>>>prep chir
>>Chirurgia alone is an incomplete pattern. It will only manifest through the Butcher's Eye spell.
Woops, nevermind. Short of explaining it more blatantly, I'm not sure how to explain it to people not getting what happens when you prep it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
NINEVAH1
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
09/08/2014 08:15 PM CDT
>>Short of explaining it more blatantly...
I think this is what is needed.
I think this is what is needed.
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Circling, spells and frustration
10/08/2014 07:44 PM CDT
< Reply Is there any way we could flag metaspells to be more obvious than they are right now? Right now we rely on the description of the spell itself, but information seems to get missed surprisingly often when it's only in the description.
Its painfully obvious, I didn't have a problem knowing that it would work the way it does, and when i first tried using it I was pretty damn drunk and still got it right off.
Its painfully obvious, I didn't have a problem knowing that it would work the way it does, and when i first tried using it I was pretty damn drunk and still got it right off.
