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Curious what new system is in design for necromancer before they die off, as they are really in bad shape and the GM's think they are fine...
Problems as I see them..
1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
Remove cleric self resurrection, hell they have the ALL FACTOR, Healing spells, Disablers, DFA AOE, DFA spells, Super DFA undead only, Super DFA undead only, Stamina bypassing DFA cyclic spell, Super Buffs, ant-Damage spells, Self ress, TM/DEB/AUG/WAR/UTI bonus with align, perception buffs.
2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak, my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him. In Pvp zombies seem to die quick or do very to low if any damage and are more of a waste of time and burden in pvp.
They honestly just need need to ditch CFB, make a new spell that's a upgrade to QE that adds 200 TM makes a incorperal spectre with shadow weapons with the commands of a zombie, Auto follow, Perm till killed, Massive DO hit... ditch RUI, NR
3# Vivisection is junk, even with current changes i don't see how the spell compares in anyway to a ranger using a hunters bow, tested greatly between my ranger and my necromancer with buffs and without Vivisection at 30 mana seems to do equal or worse damage than a minminal prepared Vivisection and does no where near a hunters bow, example capped silverwood longbow + capped arrow+ fully aimed would two shot a circle 10 cleric I have with 100 in shield/evasion vs 200 longbow, Necromancer (300 TM) Vivisection at 30 mana took about 4-5 casts, Longbow also outperformed critter test...
Make vivisection a range based attack (Bonus of a capped longbow and baskie arrow, DFA with successful contest when sniped, drop mana to 8-10, very accurate)
4# Stealth is a joke right now ob+eotb people with way less perception vs hiding see me.
Fix Stealth.
5# BLB does more damage to the caster than to the victim without a bleeding wound to supply it, have to be injured which hinders you if you take a blow in the injured spot.
No ideal
5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
Remove RUI
6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.. Everyones like I want me familiar to do combat and and rangers want there pets to fight, chance are they will be better than a necromancer..
Pay attention to the class you just made and give it a actually fighting chance instead of doing half the job and saying done, leaving the necromancer class broken and unwanted...
7# Disablers seem weak and short timed..
Relook at are disablers, VS disables are pets, PV is a joke and not worth the spell slot. (duration of disabler is stupid, max 2-3 second stun?)
I just ask the GM's were is are niche for combat, what do we get that others don't have already what makes us necromancers
We are suppose to be equal to gods and have powerful undead, code us that way damnit.
MOGGOM
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:00 AM CDT
Huh? Wat is this I don't even...
>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
our self resurrection is not remotely insufficient. Afaik, it is actually identical to a Clerics. Empaths don't have self resurrection, so... no. Clerics do not have healing spells; MF only makes the body able to sustain life. The GvG isn't helpful here.
>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak, my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him. In Pvp zombies seem to die quick or do very to low if any damage and are more of a waste of time and burden in pvp.
You're monumentally wrong here. The Zombie is stupendously powerful. Since you're comparing your alfar to your zombie, perhaps you could provide ANY information, like TM of the two characters?
>They honestly just need need to ditch CFB, make a new spell that's a upgrade to QE that adds 200 TM makes a incorperal spectre with shadow weapons with the commands of a zombie, Auto follow, Perm till killed, Massive DO hit... ditch RUI, NR
Hahaha, I don't even know what this gibberish is.
>3# Vivisection is junk, even with current changes i don't see how the spell compares in anyway to a ranger using a hunters bow, tested greatly between my ranger and my necromancer with buffs and without Vivisection at 30 mana seems to do equal or worse damage than a minminal prepared Vivisection and does no where near a hunters bow, example capped silverwood longbow + capped arrow+ fully aimed would two shot a circle 10 cleric I have with 100 in shield/evasion vs 200 longbow, Necromancer (300 TM) Vivisection at 30 mana took about 4-5 casts, Longbow also outperformed critter test... Make vivisection a range based attack (Bonus of a capped longbow and baskie arrow, DFA with successful contest when sniped, drop mana to 8-10, very accurate)
I don't even know what this gibberish is. Vivisection isn't perfect, but I've been using it with stupendous success lately.
>4# Stealth is a joke right now ob+eotb people with way less perception vs hiding see me. Fix Stealth.
This is unrelated to Necromancers.
>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
Stack on undead? What are you talking about, these are self buffs.
>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.. Everyones like I want me familiar to do combat and and rangers want there pets to fight, chance are they will be better than a necromancer.. Pay attention to the class you just made and give it a actually fighting chance instead of doing half the job and saying done, leaving the necromancer class broken and unwanted...
Except they have a ton of unique and awesome abilities.
>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed.. Relook at are disablers, VS disables are pets, PV is a joke and not worth the spell slot. (duration of disabler is stupid, max 2-3 second stun?) I just ask the GM's were is are niche for combat, what do we get that others don't have already what makes us necromancers We are suppose to be equal to gods and have powerful undead, code us that way damnit.
You have access to sorcery spells too. HP is pretty great. PV is pretty great. VS has it's uses.
We aren't meant to be Gods. We're meant to be TRYING to be equal to Gods, and it seems to me like you haven't read anything about Necromancers and/or don't have a remotely good understanding of how to play one.
>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
our self resurrection is not remotely insufficient. Afaik, it is actually identical to a Clerics. Empaths don't have self resurrection, so... no. Clerics do not have healing spells; MF only makes the body able to sustain life. The GvG isn't helpful here.
>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak, my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him. In Pvp zombies seem to die quick or do very to low if any damage and are more of a waste of time and burden in pvp.
You're monumentally wrong here. The Zombie is stupendously powerful. Since you're comparing your alfar to your zombie, perhaps you could provide ANY information, like TM of the two characters?
>They honestly just need need to ditch CFB, make a new spell that's a upgrade to QE that adds 200 TM makes a incorperal spectre with shadow weapons with the commands of a zombie, Auto follow, Perm till killed, Massive DO hit... ditch RUI, NR
Hahaha, I don't even know what this gibberish is.
>3# Vivisection is junk, even with current changes i don't see how the spell compares in anyway to a ranger using a hunters bow, tested greatly between my ranger and my necromancer with buffs and without Vivisection at 30 mana seems to do equal or worse damage than a minminal prepared Vivisection and does no where near a hunters bow, example capped silverwood longbow + capped arrow+ fully aimed would two shot a circle 10 cleric I have with 100 in shield/evasion vs 200 longbow, Necromancer (300 TM) Vivisection at 30 mana took about 4-5 casts, Longbow also outperformed critter test... Make vivisection a range based attack (Bonus of a capped longbow and baskie arrow, DFA with successful contest when sniped, drop mana to 8-10, very accurate)
I don't even know what this gibberish is. Vivisection isn't perfect, but I've been using it with stupendous success lately.
>4# Stealth is a joke right now ob+eotb people with way less perception vs hiding see me. Fix Stealth.
This is unrelated to Necromancers.
>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
Stack on undead? What are you talking about, these are self buffs.
>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.. Everyones like I want me familiar to do combat and and rangers want there pets to fight, chance are they will be better than a necromancer.. Pay attention to the class you just made and give it a actually fighting chance instead of doing half the job and saying done, leaving the necromancer class broken and unwanted...
Except they have a ton of unique and awesome abilities.
>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed.. Relook at are disablers, VS disables are pets, PV is a joke and not worth the spell slot. (duration of disabler is stupid, max 2-3 second stun?) I just ask the GM's were is are niche for combat, what do we get that others don't have already what makes us necromancers We are suppose to be equal to gods and have powerful undead, code us that way damnit.
You have access to sorcery spells too. HP is pretty great. PV is pretty great. VS has it's uses.
We aren't meant to be Gods. We're meant to be TRYING to be equal to Gods, and it seems to me like you haven't read anything about Necromancers and/or don't have a remotely good understanding of how to play one.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:12 AM CDT
Most of that doesn't feel like the case to me.
>>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
>>Remove cleric self resurrection, hell they have the ALL FACTOR, Healing spells, Disablers, DFA AOE, DFA spells, Super DFA undead only, Super DFA undead only, Stamina bypassing DFA cyclic spell, Super Buffs, ant-Damage spells, Self ress, TM/DEB/AUG/WAR/UTI bonus with align, perception buffs.
Inefficient how? It does what it says it does; stands you back up after you've died. I'm also not aware of clerics having healing spells.
>>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak, my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him. In Pvp zombies seem to die quick or do very to low if any damage and are more of a waste of time and burden in pvp.
I get two hour+ duration's which feel more than worth the DO; I raise multiple zombies a day, have never had DO problems and my zombies are stronger than anything that I can hunt.
>>3# Vivisection is junk, even with current changes i don't see how the spell compares in anyway to a ranger using a hunters bow, tested greatly between my ranger and my necromancer with buffs and without Vivisection at 30 mana seems to do equal or worse damage than a minminal prepared Vivisection and does no where near a hunters bow, example capped silverwood longbow + capped arrow+ fully aimed would two shot a circle 10 cleric I have with 100 in shield/evasion vs 200 longbow, Necromancer (300 TM) Vivisection at 30 mana took about 4-5 casts, Longbow also outperformed critter test...
Weapons damage vs TM damage may still be out of whack; But comparing my 100+ circle necro and warrior mage I don't feel like our TM spells are doing any less damage.
>>4# Stealth is a joke right now ob+eotb people with way less perception vs hiding see me.
Known and improvements should come eventually.
>>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
IVM is a self buff that isn't usable on your zombie. RPU (assuming that's what you mean by RUI) provides improvements that are noticeable through appraisal when your zombie is at the edge of a range; I agree that it being stronger would be nice.
>>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.. Everyones like I want me familiar to do combat and and rangers want there pets to fight, chance are they will be better than a necromancer..
Doesn't feel that way at all to me. Our buff suite is decent, TM on par with everyone else and our pets are greatness; We don't have to give up our cyclic slot to use them and can have both out at the same time. I've kept TM as my top magic skill and my pets appraise tougher than the things I can comfortably hunt.
>>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed..
This is true for all disabler's and was intentional; Necromancers aren't any worse off than anyone else.
All for some more development but I'm really not seeing my necro as being 'really in bad shape'.
>>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
>>Remove cleric self resurrection, hell they have the ALL FACTOR, Healing spells, Disablers, DFA AOE, DFA spells, Super DFA undead only, Super DFA undead only, Stamina bypassing DFA cyclic spell, Super Buffs, ant-Damage spells, Self ress, TM/DEB/AUG/WAR/UTI bonus with align, perception buffs.
Inefficient how? It does what it says it does; stands you back up after you've died. I'm also not aware of clerics having healing spells.
>>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak, my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him. In Pvp zombies seem to die quick or do very to low if any damage and are more of a waste of time and burden in pvp.
I get two hour+ duration's which feel more than worth the DO; I raise multiple zombies a day, have never had DO problems and my zombies are stronger than anything that I can hunt.
>>3# Vivisection is junk, even with current changes i don't see how the spell compares in anyway to a ranger using a hunters bow, tested greatly between my ranger and my necromancer with buffs and without Vivisection at 30 mana seems to do equal or worse damage than a minminal prepared Vivisection and does no where near a hunters bow, example capped silverwood longbow + capped arrow+ fully aimed would two shot a circle 10 cleric I have with 100 in shield/evasion vs 200 longbow, Necromancer (300 TM) Vivisection at 30 mana took about 4-5 casts, Longbow also outperformed critter test...
Weapons damage vs TM damage may still be out of whack; But comparing my 100+ circle necro and warrior mage I don't feel like our TM spells are doing any less damage.
>>4# Stealth is a joke right now ob+eotb people with way less perception vs hiding see me.
Known and improvements should come eventually.
>>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
IVM is a self buff that isn't usable on your zombie. RPU (assuming that's what you mean by RUI) provides improvements that are noticeable through appraisal when your zombie is at the edge of a range; I agree that it being stronger would be nice.
>>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.. Everyones like I want me familiar to do combat and and rangers want there pets to fight, chance are they will be better than a necromancer..
Doesn't feel that way at all to me. Our buff suite is decent, TM on par with everyone else and our pets are greatness; We don't have to give up our cyclic slot to use them and can have both out at the same time. I've kept TM as my top magic skill and my pets appraise tougher than the things I can comfortably hunt.
>>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed..
This is true for all disabler's and was intentional; Necromancers aren't any worse off than anyone else.
All for some more development but I'm really not seeing my necro as being 'really in bad shape'.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:30 AM CDT
>IVM is a self buff that isn't usable on your zombie. RPU (assuming that's what you mean by RUI) provides improvements that are noticeable through appraisal when your zombie is at the edge of a range; I agree that it being stronger would be nice.
I assumed RUI was a mistype for Researchers Insight. If he meant RPU, I'm... still confused, since yeah, IVM isn't a critter buff, AND having IVM up when you summon a zombie and then RPUing it definitely does in fact stack.
I don't think RPU needs to be stronger, but I would like to see increased functionality out it. Maybe making it a cyclic that unlocks additional things we can do with a zombie.
I assumed RUI was a mistype for Researchers Insight. If he meant RPU, I'm... still confused, since yeah, IVM isn't a critter buff, AND having IVM up when you summon a zombie and then RPUing it definitely does in fact stack.
I don't think RPU needs to be stronger, but I would like to see increased functionality out it. Maybe making it a cyclic that unlocks additional things we can do with a zombie.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:37 AM CDT
CFB caps out at three hours. I don't know the duration isn't worth it. Don't you get "a full day's worth of DO drain" after 4 hours of gameplay? I strongly doubt that the DO of creating two (let alone one) zombies comes anywhere close to the daily DO drain you can get.
As for the other things, I'd suggest adding some data to prove your points. Also not sure what you're talking about with RUI. Do you mean RPU (critter boost, which I have seen creates a difference) or REI (intel boost, which should boost how well TM works, but I haven't really tested how much that would help when it comes to creating a zombie)?
BLB could use some more love, but the other spells you're referencing work fine for me.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
As for the other things, I'd suggest adding some data to prove your points. Also not sure what you're talking about with RUI. Do you mean RPU (critter boost, which I have seen creates a difference) or REI (intel boost, which should boost how well TM works, but I haven't really tested how much that would help when it comes to creating a zombie)?
BLB could use some more love, but the other spells you're referencing work fine for me.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:38 AM CDT
>>IVM is a self buff that isn't usable on your zombie.
Just to clarify, IVM boosts your TM. TM determines how well you create a zombie. I'm pretty sure having IVM up allows me to create a better zombie. But that also depends on your TM ranks, given that boosts are all percentage based now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Just to clarify, IVM boosts your TM. TM determines how well you create a zombie. I'm pretty sure having IVM up allows me to create a better zombie. But that also depends on your TM ranks, given that boosts are all percentage based now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:38 AM CDT
I'll only address one point at the moment and perhaps come around to others after the rest of the peanut gallery has their say:
The Philosophers are not the equal of gods, though they'd sorely like to be. They are the hunted and the persecuted, and, yes, a substantial amount of time went into coding them as such.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The Philosophers are not the equal of gods, though they'd sorely like to be. They are the hunted and the persecuted, and, yes, a substantial amount of time went into coding them as such.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
MOGGOM
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 11:57 AM CDT
Bitter Feast = Heal's, its a conversion spells spirit into fatigue or vitality. Cleric Healing
Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
Don't matter, necromancers are jimmy rigged together as is now and need there own niche, if you don't understand the problems they have maybe you don't play one enough.
Characters I have that I have circled, pvp'd, tested to hell and back are:
Empath circle 60
Ranger circle 80
Necromancer circle 80
Moon mage circle 45
WM circle 38
Barb circle 98
Pretty sure I can tell if a class is lacking or way underpowered.
ALGOTHI
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:15 PM CDT
Some more comments.
>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
SRE is amazing, it gives us the ability to keep items, partial restoration of exp pools and potentially keep Spell Scrolls, which is a whole lot better then using the other Depart options.
>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak...
I think this opinion was formed without a whole lot of experience with CFB. First off, the duration of a capped CFB is 180 minutes, three hours is a huge amount of time. Also, DO from using the spell is not that huge. You have the smallest DO hit for using Arise, then a second for using an Animation Spell. I use this spell every day + a handful of trans spells and I am at the bare minimum DO for my level.
>my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him.
I believe at equal TM and Mana values, Necromancer combat pets far exceed Emapth/Ranger pets. In addition other guilds need cyclic spells to use combat pets, which limits them quite a bit and is clearly an advantage for the Necromancer. CFB also has Stance and Behavior options, which adds a lot of control to how we can use them.
>3# Vivisection
The Ranger comparison is regarding the stealth contest for snipe, not damage potential. That said 30 mana is a third of the spell's max, so you are no where near maxing out the damage potential of the spell. Generally I think VIVI is a solid spell, and the only good option when you need to cast spells in town.
>4# Stealth is a joke right now
Said before, not a necromancer issue.
>5# BLB does more damage to the caster than to the victim without a bleeding wound to supply it, have to be injured which hinders you if you take a blow in the injured spot.
Train Stamina, use SV between casts. You wont notice the vit drain that way. BLB at 40 mana averages 1 cast less to kill then most my other spells at the same mana, so the benefit is there.
>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
I think this is misinformed. Do the following test:
Cast CFB at mana X. App Zombie Careful, release.
Cast IVM, Cast CFB at mana X. App Zombie careful, release.
Cast IVM, Cast CFB at mana X, cast RPU. App Zombie Careful, release.
You should see an increase in combat ability at each step.
>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.
Yeah, I dont think you are going to see a lot of people agreeing with you.
>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed..
Pretty standard for CC disablers for all guilds.
>Relook at are disablers, VS disables are pets, PV is a joke and not worth the spell slot. (duration of disabler is stupid, max 2-3 second stun?)
If you are lacking in the stat contests, all disablers you use are going to be lackluster. VS does hit our pets, however at my level is extremely rare for a high mana cast of VS to succeed against either my Zombie or Construct. I am talking 1 out of 20 casts might succeed. PV is good if you know how to use it. Its a great way to force a target to stay still while your pets attack.
>I just ask the GM's were is are niche for combat, what do we get that others don't have already what makes us necromancers
Despite your disagreement, CFB and QE are really powerful. We are also the only guild that can have two active combat pets.
>We are suppose to be equal to gods...
No. No we are not. We want to be, but that is never going to happen in an online RPG.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
>1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
SRE is amazing, it gives us the ability to keep items, partial restoration of exp pools and potentially keep Spell Scrolls, which is a whole lot better then using the other Depart options.
>2# CFB is junk, because one the duration isn't worth the DO, the "risen" is rather weak...
I think this opinion was formed without a whole lot of experience with CFB. First off, the duration of a capped CFB is 180 minutes, three hours is a huge amount of time. Also, DO from using the spell is not that huge. You have the smallest DO hit for using Arise, then a second for using an Animation Spell. I use this spell every day + a handful of trans spells and I am at the bare minimum DO for my level.
>my empaths Alfar can kill my necromancers zombie and my necromancer outclasses my empath, the undead buff seems to make my zombie perform worse or barely noticeable. Sure if I tested awaken forest it would perform equal or on par with a zombie even with my necromancer outclassing him.
I believe at equal TM and Mana values, Necromancer combat pets far exceed Emapth/Ranger pets. In addition other guilds need cyclic spells to use combat pets, which limits them quite a bit and is clearly an advantage for the Necromancer. CFB also has Stance and Behavior options, which adds a lot of control to how we can use them.
>3# Vivisection
The Ranger comparison is regarding the stealth contest for snipe, not damage potential. That said 30 mana is a third of the spell's max, so you are no where near maxing out the damage potential of the spell. Generally I think VIVI is a solid spell, and the only good option when you need to cast spells in town.
>4# Stealth is a joke right now
Said before, not a necromancer issue.
>5# BLB does more damage to the caster than to the victim without a bleeding wound to supply it, have to be injured which hinders you if you take a blow in the injured spot.
Train Stamina, use SV between casts. You wont notice the vit drain that way. BLB at 40 mana averages 1 cast less to kill then most my other spells at the same mana, so the benefit is there.
>5# ivm+rui don't seem to stack on undead.
I think this is misinformed. Do the following test:
Cast CFB at mana X. App Zombie Careful, release.
Cast IVM, Cast CFB at mana X. App Zombie careful, release.
Cast IVM, Cast CFB at mana X, cast RPU. App Zombie Careful, release.
You should see an increase in combat ability at each step.
>6# Necromancer seems to be in the state of a commoner running around with hand me down piss poor spells, and weak undead.
Yeah, I dont think you are going to see a lot of people agreeing with you.
>7# Disablers seem weak and short timed..
Pretty standard for CC disablers for all guilds.
>Relook at are disablers, VS disables are pets, PV is a joke and not worth the spell slot. (duration of disabler is stupid, max 2-3 second stun?)
If you are lacking in the stat contests, all disablers you use are going to be lackluster. VS does hit our pets, however at my level is extremely rare for a high mana cast of VS to succeed against either my Zombie or Construct. I am talking 1 out of 20 casts might succeed. PV is good if you know how to use it. Its a great way to force a target to stay still while your pets attack.
>I just ask the GM's were is are niche for combat, what do we get that others don't have already what makes us necromancers
Despite your disagreement, CFB and QE are really powerful. We are also the only guild that can have two active combat pets.
>We are suppose to be equal to gods...
No. No we are not. We want to be, but that is never going to happen in an online RPG.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:15 PM CDT
>Bitter Feast = Heal's, its a conversion spells spirit into fatigue or vitality. Cleric Healing
Restoring vitality is not the same as healing.
>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
If your Necromancers zombie is not killing your empaths alfar with those numbers, something is weird. I find your claim HIGHLY suspect. To second, with about 500 TM, my Necromancer produces zombies that are FAR tougher than things he can hunt, and he has approximately 500 defenses, and 400 weapons.
Again, your zombie's strength is related to YOUR TM. If you buff your TM (with IVM) when you cast CFB, your zombie will be tougher. IVM does not buff CFB or your zombie. It buffs YOUR TM, and your zombies strength is determined by YOUR TM.
>Don't matter, necromancers are jimmy rigged together as is now and need there own niche, if you don't understand the problems they have maybe you don't play one enough.
My Necromancer is 100+. Based on your lack of understanding (or addressing!) the guild, I don't think we're the problem here.
>Pretty sure I can tell if a class is lacking or way underpowered.
Respectfully, given the way you're presenting this case, I'm not sure you can.
Restoring vitality is not the same as healing.
>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
If your Necromancers zombie is not killing your empaths alfar with those numbers, something is weird. I find your claim HIGHLY suspect. To second, with about 500 TM, my Necromancer produces zombies that are FAR tougher than things he can hunt, and he has approximately 500 defenses, and 400 weapons.
Again, your zombie's strength is related to YOUR TM. If you buff your TM (with IVM) when you cast CFB, your zombie will be tougher. IVM does not buff CFB or your zombie. It buffs YOUR TM, and your zombies strength is determined by YOUR TM.
>Don't matter, necromancers are jimmy rigged together as is now and need there own niche, if you don't understand the problems they have maybe you don't play one enough.
My Necromancer is 100+. Based on your lack of understanding (or addressing!) the guild, I don't think we're the problem here.
>Pretty sure I can tell if a class is lacking or way underpowered.
Respectfully, given the way you're presenting this case, I'm not sure you can.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:16 PM CDT
>>Bitter Feast = Heal's, its a conversion spells spirit into fatigue or vitality. Cleric Healing
I'd take SV over BF any day.
>>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
As mentioned, please show data. How does your necro appraise your empath's guardian? How does your necro appraise your zombie? Etc.
>>Pretty sure I can tell if a class is lacking or way underpowered.
Data rules all for this general grouping of GMs. If you can show something is wrong, they'd look into how to resolve it. Right now you have no data. You should definitely gather data to prove your point.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'd take SV over BF any day.
>>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
As mentioned, please show data. How does your necro appraise your empath's guardian? How does your necro appraise your zombie? Etc.
>>Pretty sure I can tell if a class is lacking or way underpowered.
Data rules all for this general grouping of GMs. If you can show something is wrong, they'd look into how to resolve it. Right now you have no data. You should definitely gather data to prove your point.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ALGOTHI
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:18 PM CDT
>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
Yes, but how much mana are you putting into the spell? That is major factor of Zombie combat strength.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Yes, but how much mana are you putting into the spell? That is major factor of Zombie combat strength.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
DR-RAESH
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:26 PM CDT
If the necromancer guild, as it currently stands, blatantly doesn't appeal to you (Which it apparently doesn't) I would recommend another guild. You will have a much better DR experience and the Necromancer guild is not for everyone.
Is the guild perfect? No. Could some of it's abilities use refinement? Yes. Are there systems we'd like to develop for necromancers that we haven't yet? Certainly.
But guess what - That could be said of every guild in the game right now. What's currently there is the core of Necromancer gameplay.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Is the guild perfect? No. Could some of it's abilities use refinement? Yes. Are there systems we'd like to develop for necromancers that we haven't yet? Certainly.
But guess what - That could be said of every guild in the game right now. What's currently there is the core of Necromancer gameplay.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
REAVER1
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:46 PM CDT
>Are CFB sucks even with IVM if it applies a bonus to CFB, my empath has 200 tm, necromancer has 300...
What stance was your zombie in during this test?
What mana was it cast at?
What stance was your zombie in during this test?
What mana was it cast at?
ORBITAL303
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 12:57 PM CDT
Not to sound snarky, but you saying you have played a bunch of characters to low to mid circle levels does not likely make you as great an authority on game balance as you seem to be implying. Many of those were not trained high enough to have anything approaching their full toolbox of abilities.
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -
- I maintain the Warrior Mage Beginner's Guide at:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Beginner%27s_Warrior_Mage_Guide
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 01:05 PM CDT
I'd say getting a character to 50th circle means you have access to most of the tools a character will be using. I wouldn't say that means you know how to play a character though, as evidenced by the sorts of criticisms leveled by the OP. Plenty of people can grind out to 100 without really knowing what's going on, especially so with the changes over the last few years.
My Moonie was my first 100th character, and I firmly confess to having very little idea what is going on with them post 3.0.
My Moonie was my first 100th character, and I firmly confess to having very little idea what is going on with them post 3.0.
NINEVAH1
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 01:17 PM CDT
>>Many of those were not trained high enough to have anything approaching their full toolbox of abilities.
This.
Having played a character to 150+ and having several characters 80th and lower I can say most guilds don't reach full potential till 100+ in circle and 400-500+ in skills. Abilities and spells are set up to scale in difficulty from 0-1000 ranks in skill so it takes some time to get full use out of them, especially the ones that do more fun things.
All that depends on how you train, too. If you just train to reqs or just over and don't farm for extra TDP's (or even put them into the right stats) to win the stat contests when using disablers it will seem you are even weaker than you should be. I would suggest giving some actual numbers of skills and stats of the characters you are talking about if you want something to be done.
This.
Having played a character to 150+ and having several characters 80th and lower I can say most guilds don't reach full potential till 100+ in circle and 400-500+ in skills. Abilities and spells are set up to scale in difficulty from 0-1000 ranks in skill so it takes some time to get full use out of them, especially the ones that do more fun things.
All that depends on how you train, too. If you just train to reqs or just over and don't farm for extra TDP's (or even put them into the right stats) to win the stat contests when using disablers it will seem you are even weaker than you should be. I would suggest giving some actual numbers of skills and stats of the characters you are talking about if you want something to be done.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 01:41 PM CDT
I think you guys are exaggerating how many circles are required to 'reach full potential'. You can get a good idea of what a class is like well before 100th. Around 50-60th you stop pushing for specific abilities for nearly all guilds, and start filling out repertoires or simply 'doing it better'.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 01:50 PM CDT
Though i realize 'reach full potential' and 'get a taste of what the guild is up to' are two different things, so, I dunno, statement redacted.
NINEVAH1
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 04:37 PM CDT
I agree that you don't need to get a character to 100th to get a feel for the guild, but his complaint is about a lack of power or things not lasting as long as they should. IMO you need to get above 100th to see most spells and abilities at their most potent. I realize Necros have a short list of spells compared to some others, so he may already have everything, but it takes more than 300-400 in skills to get full effect from most Necro spells.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 04:42 PM CDT
>>IMO you need to get above 100th to see most spells and abilities at their most potent.
Getting to 100+ means you get a more complete suite of spells/abilities, but AFAIK when you see them at their most potent should generally be skill based for all guilds at this point.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Getting to 100+ means you get a more complete suite of spells/abilities, but AFAIK when you see them at their most potent should generally be skill based for all guilds at this point.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
NINEVAH1
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 04:56 PM CDT
>>Getting to 100+ means you get a more complete suite of spells/abilities, but AFAIK when you see them at their most potent should generally be skill based for all guilds at this point.
Yes I was implying that since the average character has skills in the 400+ range and a fairly decent stat distribution by 100th. I figured that was clear with this statement within the same post:
>>but it takes more than 300-400 in skills to get full effect from most Necro spells.
Yes I was implying that since the average character has skills in the 400+ range and a fairly decent stat distribution by 100th. I figured that was clear with this statement within the same post:
>>but it takes more than 300-400 in skills to get full effect from most Necro spells.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 05:01 PM CDT
>I agree that you don't need to get a character to 100th to get a feel for the guild, but his complaint is about a lack of power or things not lasting as long as they should. IMO you need to get above 100th to see most spells and abilities at their most potent. I realize Necros have a short list of spells compared to some others, so he may already have everything, but it takes more than 300-400 in skills to get full effect from most Necro spells.
Yeah, his complaint and claim to legitimacy are both entirely groundless.
FWIW, at 105th or so, Necromancers won't have all their spells assuming they've picked up a couple of useful feats.
And I dunno, 'full effect' may mean different things to different people. I think my zombies are AWESOME, and I'm not capping them. I also think mudmen were super fun to hunt with regardless of the size descriptor that comes before them. OM is still a useful spell even if you can't put 6 other spells in it. But I'm being pedantic. I have no idea what the OP is on about.
BLUESUEDESHOES
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/04/2014 07:08 PM CDT
I would say the OP is nowhere near experienced enough with the necro guild, or any other guild for that matter, to pass judgment on whether or not a particular guild is underpowered. It really depends on how you train, your skills, stats, and certainly at low to mid circles, your race. Necros DO have weaknesses, but CFB is not one of them. Fighting toe-to-toe with melee weapons would be a weakness. Using a zombie and a construct in conjunction with the proper mix of other strengths such as stealths, TM, and yes, even some weapons results in a very powerful character when played properly.
________________________________________________________________
"I only automatically kill players when they're asking for it or it's funny. Or both." ~GM Raesh
________________________________________________________________
"I only automatically kill players when they're asking for it or it's funny. Or both." ~GM Raesh
GIDAEN
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 05:23 AM CDT
Oookay, no.
1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
SRE gets us on our feet. That is its function and its great for that.
2# CFB blah blah
Our Zombies as others have said are amazing. Because I was curious I put my pets toe to toe with an empath that had TM with 10 ranks of mine. My Construct was fairly evenly matched (vs a high cast Guardian), my zombie ate it. Post buffs my Construct beat it silly to a point where I flat out felt bad about using the zombie (which ruined it in a matter of seconds). At a guess, I'm going to assume you're just doing it wrong.
3# Vivisection is..
This spell just recieved some hefty attention that addressed its major failing. While its not a primary trainer spell (not supposed to be either) it makes a solid opener when picking a fight.
4# Stealth..
Not a 'Necro' issue, but a global rebalance. Luckily constructive feedback like yours goes a LONG way to helping (sarcasm)
5# BLB
I can admit BLB isn't quite what I would like it to be yet. I also understand it is being given some attention behind the scenes too.
5.5# IVM + ??
IVM has to be casted PRIOR to pet creation. If done correctly has a large impact. RPU is very powerful on zombies. REI has no effect on pets
6# ..
Just no.. DIR INN - CHECK IN REROLL - CHECK IN COMFIRM
7# Disablers
Global change. All Disablers have a capped duration (30 seconds I believe). If you aren't seeing such you aren't using enough mana or have enough stats. Mana R E A L L Y matters now across the board.
In summary - Our pets are very powerful - especially post 3.1 with the Construct scaling past 500 ranks now. Our buff suites decent and if played right we do rather well. Sounds like the guild isn't for you.
Condran Arkarm
1# Are self resurrection is inefficient, as cleric has a self resurrection and maybe empath?
SRE gets us on our feet. That is its function and its great for that.
2# CFB blah blah
Our Zombies as others have said are amazing. Because I was curious I put my pets toe to toe with an empath that had TM with 10 ranks of mine. My Construct was fairly evenly matched (vs a high cast Guardian), my zombie ate it. Post buffs my Construct beat it silly to a point where I flat out felt bad about using the zombie (which ruined it in a matter of seconds). At a guess, I'm going to assume you're just doing it wrong.
3# Vivisection is..
This spell just recieved some hefty attention that addressed its major failing. While its not a primary trainer spell (not supposed to be either) it makes a solid opener when picking a fight.
4# Stealth..
Not a 'Necro' issue, but a global rebalance. Luckily constructive feedback like yours goes a LONG way to helping (sarcasm)
5# BLB
I can admit BLB isn't quite what I would like it to be yet. I also understand it is being given some attention behind the scenes too.
5.5# IVM + ??
IVM has to be casted PRIOR to pet creation. If done correctly has a large impact. RPU is very powerful on zombies. REI has no effect on pets
6# ..
Just no.. DIR INN - CHECK IN REROLL - CHECK IN COMFIRM
7# Disablers
Global change. All Disablers have a capped duration (30 seconds I believe). If you aren't seeing such you aren't using enough mana or have enough stats. Mana R E A L L Y matters now across the board.
In summary - Our pets are very powerful - especially post 3.1 with the Construct scaling past 500 ranks now. Our buff suites decent and if played right we do rather well. Sounds like the guild isn't for you.
Condran Arkarm
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 08:01 AM CDT
BLB needs some work done, yeah. I have a plan approved for it but it's turning out to be slightly nightmarish in practice to implement. May need to go back to the drawing board with the spell.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
CLERIXHAX
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 10:01 AM CDT
Just to clarify since you have inaccurate information in your post.
1) Clerics can't heal, clerics can increase their vitality at the cost of spirit. As someone else pointed out. Vitality Healing isn't "Healing spells", bleeders will still exist and reduce vitality as they pulse. It's a temporary solution to get clerics out of a tight spot potentially.
>2)DFA AOE, DFA Spells, Super DFA undead only, Stamina Bypassing DFA cyclic spells.
DFA AOE- Harm Horde (Shared with Paladins)
DFA Spells - Soul Attrition
Super DFA Undead only - see Harm Horde
Stamina Bypassing DFA cyclic spells - See Soul Attrition
Clerics have 2 DFA spells. One that is undead only, the other, which is not some stamina bypassing spell attacks spirit, it's cyclic, and there's a save. You're grossly exaggerating how many DFA spells other classes you're trying to compare have to make it look like Necromancers are in much worse shape then they are.
>3) Anti damage spells
Pretty much everyone has these.
>4)TM/DEB/AUG/WAR/UTI bonus with align
You don't seem to understand how align works. Align will bonus 2 skills to increase the amount of mana one can put into it, the other three are penalized the same %. Aligning to TM does not increase accuracy. So, Clerics can bonus two skills at the cost of three.
>5)perception buffs
Clerics don't get a Stealth buff, remove the Necromancer stealth buff....(see what I did there?) and its a perception buff, singular.
1) Clerics can't heal, clerics can increase their vitality at the cost of spirit. As someone else pointed out. Vitality Healing isn't "Healing spells", bleeders will still exist and reduce vitality as they pulse. It's a temporary solution to get clerics out of a tight spot potentially.
>2)DFA AOE, DFA Spells, Super DFA undead only, Stamina Bypassing DFA cyclic spells.
DFA AOE- Harm Horde (Shared with Paladins)
DFA Spells - Soul Attrition
Super DFA Undead only - see Harm Horde
Stamina Bypassing DFA cyclic spells - See Soul Attrition
Clerics have 2 DFA spells. One that is undead only, the other, which is not some stamina bypassing spell attacks spirit, it's cyclic, and there's a save. You're grossly exaggerating how many DFA spells other classes you're trying to compare have to make it look like Necromancers are in much worse shape then they are.
>3) Anti damage spells
Pretty much everyone has these.
>4)TM/DEB/AUG/WAR/UTI bonus with align
You don't seem to understand how align works. Align will bonus 2 skills to increase the amount of mana one can put into it, the other three are penalized the same %. Aligning to TM does not increase accuracy. So, Clerics can bonus two skills at the cost of three.
>5)perception buffs
Clerics don't get a Stealth buff, remove the Necromancer stealth buff....(see what I did there?) and its a perception buff, singular.
ALGOTHI
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 11:03 AM CDT
>BLB needs some work done, yeah. I have a plan approved for it but it's turning out to be slightly nightmarish in practice to implement. May need to go back to the drawing board with the spell.
Sad to hear that. The proposed changes, last I heard, would have been unique and interesting. Oh well, I trust you to come up with something good for the spell either way.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Sad to hear that. The proposed changes, last I heard, would have been unique and interesting. Oh well, I trust you to come up with something good for the spell either way.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
MOGGOM
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 09:28 PM CDT
Ok wrong, healing is healing plain and simple I never said it was good, or healed wounds I guess..
You forgot that gay DFA AOE that hits twice or whatever need fist of faenella as a req, so you are wong on your spells for cleric..
Sorry I didn't post accurate data to go with my claim I'm stating the growing pains of a necromancer is very weak compared to other guilds, I know how to spell up and REI would most likely add the a zombie and BUE if zombies have some boost in your arise, Using a CJ with TM also goes along way. =p
My necromancer ranks.. Well pm,aug,ward,deb,utlity all in the 500's, tm 300 even, defenses all in the 300's... trained for TDP's so my stats are rather crazy, 50 50 50 45 20 25 40 25 int wis disc reflex agi char stam str
Not worth arguing about and my claim is to there pvp effectiveness CFB isn't a good niche you have to have a pet on the back burner, fighting and chasing with a zombie is very time consuming not only that but commanding pulls you from hiding , All I'm saying is they don't have a good core for 3.0 and were more designed towards 2.0, disables are too short and apply no hindrance to skills like HB for example, VS isn't bad its decent but PV is horrible..
I live eat and breathe PVP in dragonrealms so before you comment thinking I'm so noob that's just throwing comments out there, I taught Hizu, Ragran and Red how to pvp, I've played DR since AOL and dialup, I am alittle behind on 3.0 but as I see it a equal player of any guild/skill besides maybe trader and empath can beat a equal necromancer easily. (alot has to do with us being survival prime and stealth being so bugged, also the watch command don't help)
Using VS and PV to get someone cornered with a zombie isn't going to get you a win, they will either run, And if you chase you'll be open to disablers trying to call your zombie.. The whole point in Risen is the key to a necromancers power, and in 3.0 they are just too weak to be considered powerful.. Use stealth,etob,usol on cyclic and cast spells with the cyclic active, vivisection capped seems underpowered to a fully capped ACS..
Don't sit there defending clerics either, they can bind you to one room so you can't leave, chain disable you, while SA kills you they are grealty overpowered, and they have 3 DFA's two are aoe's, and both undead only spells hit necromancers...
I never said SRE was a bad spell, but I do feel necromancer should have the only self ressurection.
I love my necromancer, torturing people and going rather insane as I crave more and more power in RP is rather fun..
But for being a pvp conflicted guild, necromancer is on the lowest rung of the ladder.
If I wanted to play a different class and be OP I'd play a Cleric seems everyone else is now..
MOGGOM
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 09:35 PM CDT
Sorry 4 DFA's, 2 Harm Evil (single) and Harm Horde (aoe) are undead only and bypass armor but they effect necromancer, SA (single,DFA, cyclic) FOU (DFA AOE hits twice second hit half power)
GRIM45
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 09:53 PM CDT
>>You forgot that [TOS issue] DFA AOE
Clearly a master debater here. Have fun posting while you can.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
Clearly a master debater here. Have fun posting while you can.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors." -Raesh
ALGOTHI
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 10:10 PM CDT
>Sorry I didn't post accurate data to go with my claim I'm stating the growing pains of a necromancer is very weak compared to other guilds, I know how to spell up and REI would most likely add the a zombie and BUE if zombies have some boost in your arise, Using a CJ with TM also goes along way. =p
Yeah, sounds like you are doing some things wrong. Here are some tips for Zombie creation.
REI and BUE do absolutely nothing for a Zombie. IVM (TM boost) will only help if you have it up before creating a zombie. IVM and a TM CJ will not stack. RPU cast after animation will also boost zombie strength. In addition, if you have not fully healed up a corpse, some of the mana used to cast CFB will be wasted healing the corpse. For the best possible zombie you need to make sure you fully heal it with NR first. If you cant cap CFB, pay attention to your casting stance. Potency will boost Offense while Integrity will boost Defense. As always cast at the highest mana possible.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Yeah, sounds like you are doing some things wrong. Here are some tips for Zombie creation.
REI and BUE do absolutely nothing for a Zombie. IVM (TM boost) will only help if you have it up before creating a zombie. IVM and a TM CJ will not stack. RPU cast after animation will also boost zombie strength. In addition, if you have not fully healed up a corpse, some of the mana used to cast CFB will be wasted healing the corpse. For the best possible zombie you need to make sure you fully heal it with NR first. If you cant cap CFB, pay attention to your casting stance. Potency will boost Offense while Integrity will boost Defense. As always cast at the highest mana possible.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
LIURIDR
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/05/2014 10:29 PM CDT
>Sorry 4 DFA's, 2 Harm Evil (single) and Harm Horde (aoe) are undead only and bypass armor but they effect necromancer, SA (single,DFA, cyclic) FOU (DFA AOE hits twice second hit half power)
Just to clarify this for you, HE/HH are both DFA against Undead/Cursed/Necromancers (only after a certain DO level). SA is a DFA cyclic that begins a clash between spirits wherein the stronger spirit will beat down the other. There are methods to avoiding/interrupting this spell. FoU is not a DFA spell, it was previously DFB (Death From Below and bypassed shield) but this is no longer the case. As for hitting twice, this is possible with enough skill/mana.
Also, on the healing tangent, Eylhaar's Feast (and Bitter Feast) can transmute spirit energy into vitality, fatigue, or attunement. However, it is also quite possible that the unwary caster can spirit kill him or herself with these spells as well. Additionally, if the vitality healing component of this spell is what you're concerned about, I'd draw your attention to the plethora of quest items that can also do this at no cost to the user.
Just to clarify this for you, HE/HH are both DFA against Undead/Cursed/Necromancers (only after a certain DO level). SA is a DFA cyclic that begins a clash between spirits wherein the stronger spirit will beat down the other. There are methods to avoiding/interrupting this spell. FoU is not a DFA spell, it was previously DFB (Death From Below and bypassed shield) but this is no longer the case. As for hitting twice, this is possible with enough skill/mana.
Also, on the healing tangent, Eylhaar's Feast (and Bitter Feast) can transmute spirit energy into vitality, fatigue, or attunement. However, it is also quite possible that the unwary caster can spirit kill him or herself with these spells as well. Additionally, if the vitality healing component of this spell is what you're concerned about, I'd draw your attention to the plethora of quest items that can also do this at no cost to the user.
ABSOLON
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 03:35 AM CDT
<<You forgot that gay DFA
Ah. You're 13. That explains a lot.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Ah. You're 13. That explains a lot.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
GREGORYN4
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 04:51 AM CDT
3 Steps to DR Happiness:
1. Play WM
2. Don't PvP/GvG
3. Find the right critter for you
Nobody said necromancers were supposed to be good at anything.
GIDAEN
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 05:18 AM CDT
From the top..
Let go of the healing thing, EF (and BF) aren't healing at all. In fact, they aren't even the most effective vit restoring abilities available to non-empaths. Let it go.
>>I know how to spell up and REI would most likely add the a zombie and BUE if zombies have some boost in your arise, Using a CJ with TM also goes along way. =p
Eeeexcept you don't. As others and myself have stated - REI and BUE don't boost zombies. IVM will boost Construct and Zombie mojo prior to creation.
>>VS isn't bad its decent but PV is horrible..
Amusing, as immobile is immobile as far as the system is concerned. Both apply the same debuff. That said with a mighty 20 charisma I'm unsurprised you have issues with debilitation as you barely pass the contests and get minimal success. VS being vs Fort is likely the reason you get any milage at all as folks tend to neglect stamina on noobs.
>>I live eat and breathe PVP in dragonrealms so before you comment thinking I'm so noob that's just throwing comments out there
You are. Maybe, just maybe, you were the best thing after sliced bread but its a different beast now.
As for pet power I'll leave you the following: I MIGHT be able to fight my construct, but I cannot even fight my own zombie. Once you get the training wheels off your character and get some serious TM (PS, buffs are % boosts now) you'll have a better idea whats what.
Condran Arkarm
You are certain that the dirt construct is healthy.
You are certain that the dirt construct is slightly fatigued.
You are certain that it is rather stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is a little more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is apparently as disciplined as you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat more conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a lumium triangular sipar and an etched steel parry stick with black leather straps, you are certain that the dirt construct is a quite difficult opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with your fists, you are certain that the dirt construct is a rather difficult opponent.
If you brawled with the enemy, you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train rather well.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train very well.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can land a spell.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
The construct appears immune to normal poisons.
You are certain that the ape zombie is healthy.
The ape zombie has a serious wound.
You are certain that it is rather stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is a little more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is apparently as disciplined as you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat more conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a lumium triangular sipar and an etched steel parry stick with black leather straps, you are certain that the ape zombie is a truly skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with your fists, you are certain that the ape zombie is a rather difficult opponent.
If you brawled with the enemy, you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train very well.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train rather well.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train rather well.
The zombie appears immune to normal poisons.
Let go of the healing thing, EF (and BF) aren't healing at all. In fact, they aren't even the most effective vit restoring abilities available to non-empaths. Let it go.
>>I know how to spell up and REI would most likely add the a zombie and BUE if zombies have some boost in your arise, Using a CJ with TM also goes along way. =p
Eeeexcept you don't. As others and myself have stated - REI and BUE don't boost zombies. IVM will boost Construct and Zombie mojo prior to creation.
>>VS isn't bad its decent but PV is horrible..
Amusing, as immobile is immobile as far as the system is concerned. Both apply the same debuff. That said with a mighty 20 charisma I'm unsurprised you have issues with debilitation as you barely pass the contests and get minimal success. VS being vs Fort is likely the reason you get any milage at all as folks tend to neglect stamina on noobs.
>>I live eat and breathe PVP in dragonrealms so before you comment thinking I'm so noob that's just throwing comments out there
You are. Maybe, just maybe, you were the best thing after sliced bread but its a different beast now.
As for pet power I'll leave you the following: I MIGHT be able to fight my construct, but I cannot even fight my own zombie. Once you get the training wheels off your character and get some serious TM (PS, buffs are % boosts now) you'll have a better idea whats what.
Condran Arkarm
You are certain that the dirt construct is healthy.
You are certain that the dirt construct is slightly fatigued.
You are certain that it is rather stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is a little more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is apparently as disciplined as you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat more conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a lumium triangular sipar and an etched steel parry stick with black leather straps, you are certain that the dirt construct is a quite difficult opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with your fists, you are certain that the dirt construct is a rather difficult opponent.
If you brawled with the enemy, you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train rather well.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train very well.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can land a spell.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
The construct appears immune to normal poisons.
You are certain that the ape zombie is healthy.
The ape zombie has a serious wound.
You are certain that it is rather stronger than you are.
You are certain that it is a little more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is apparently as disciplined as you are.
You are certain that it is about as quick to react as you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat more conditioned than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with a lumium triangular sipar and an etched steel parry stick with black leather straps, you are certain that the ape zombie is a truly skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with your fists, you are certain that the ape zombie is a rather difficult opponent.
If you brawled with the enemy, you are certain that it would train exceptionally well, but you probably won't be landing many blows.
If you defended by parrying attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you defended by evading attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train very well.
If you defended by blocking attacks, you are certain that the enemy would train exceptionally well.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train very well, provided you can affect it.
If you targeted and cast a spell at the enemy, you are certain that it would train rather well.
If you attempted to debilitate the enemy, you are certain that it would train rather well.
The zombie appears immune to normal poisons.
ABSOLON
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 05:31 AM CDT
Do CJs even still work? I had to throw mine all away when I returned, because they were all obsolete.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
ASHAMAN1
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 06:08 AM CDT
>>Do CJs even still work? I had to throw mine all away when I returned, because they were all obsolete.
I don't believe so. Also, the OP clearly has some cleric envy. Can't blame em, most of us do, but yeah, take a break and play one of those.
Samsaren
I don't believe so. Also, the OP clearly has some cleric envy. Can't blame em, most of us do, but yeah, take a break and play one of those.
Samsaren
GIDAEN
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 06:40 AM CDT
Going back to the whole Alfar vs Zombie comment via the OP.
Alfar cast at 20 mana, 610 TM
Zombie cast at min + 65, 44 mana RPU, 496 TM
End result:
Dead Warrior
Zombie is unarmed, and took 1 damaging wound
Casting the alfar at 25, buffed with Vigor, zombie takes a bit more damage, still clearly ahead. 2 fights - no healing for the zombie.
You see an arisen ape zombie.
The ape zombie has faint scuffing to the head, faint scuffing to the right arm, faint scuffing to the left arm, faint scuffing to the left leg, faint scuffing to the right hand.
The ape zombie is in good shape.
It is wearing nothing!
It is carrying nothing!
Yup, Alfar are clearly more powerful, and necro's are underjuiced. Glad we have proof.
Condran Arkarm
Alfar cast at 20 mana, 610 TM
Zombie cast at min + 65, 44 mana RPU, 496 TM
End result:
Dead Warrior
Zombie is unarmed, and took 1 damaging wound
Casting the alfar at 25, buffed with Vigor, zombie takes a bit more damage, still clearly ahead. 2 fights - no healing for the zombie.
You see an arisen ape zombie.
The ape zombie has faint scuffing to the head, faint scuffing to the right arm, faint scuffing to the left arm, faint scuffing to the left leg, faint scuffing to the right hand.
The ape zombie is in good shape.
It is wearing nothing!
It is carrying nothing!
Yup, Alfar are clearly more powerful, and necro's are underjuiced. Glad we have proof.
Condran Arkarm
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Confused and bewilidered
08/06/2014 07:11 AM CDT
>>REI and BUE do absolutely nothing for a Zombie.
Do zombies use the normal TM formula? Because IIRC Intelligence does influence damage, so it could be possible that intel boost from REI would help influence zombie strength.
It wouldn't be as big of a change as IVM's TM boost, but it might be something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Do zombies use the normal TM formula? Because IIRC Intelligence does influence damage, so it could be possible that intel boost from REI would help influence zombie strength.
It wouldn't be as big of a change as IVM's TM boost, but it might be something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
