Previous
Had the worst Divine Outrage death earlier. I literally imploded.
Now this posed quite a few problems. First off I was in Geni's, and now I was so injured I couldn't search to get back to my body. No problem, I'll just go back to my vault and get a spare knife, and heal myself right up. Wait..
Hand's are too injured to pick anything up. Okay..
Get on an alt, have him give me the knife. Success!
I head off to Musk Hogs and starting healing up. I get struck down again.. and again..
Long story short I did eventually get my gear out of Geni's, but for all that is holy, this was by far my worst experience as a Necromancer. Not entirely a complaint, but it did seem SLIGHTLY more punitive than what I was used too.
FALKENWIND
DRFREAK
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 11:32 AM CST
I have been there a couple times. And lost 10k plats worth of gear once even. There are many times when the is no way you can handle the situation yourself. Best bet is to log out sometimes. And have a friend get your stuff from the grave. Necromancer at times can be a little more then Hard mode. People should also note. dying to DO in no way resets your outrage.
- Grave Lord Zerreck Arkarm
FALKENWIND
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 11:39 AM CST
Yeah, I was freaking out a bit, especially since I had a fair bit of damite gear and quest items. So the loss would have been pretty severe for me!
Still.. It was interesting. Not an experience I would care to repeat, but still interesting!
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 11:45 AM CST
>>I literally imploded.
What's the messaging for that, anyway?
>>Hand's are too injured to pick anything up. Okay..
IMO, death scars should cap out at a point where you can pick stuff up, or at least with a roundtime associated with it. While I appreciate the desire to make wounds matter, it seems excessively punitive (necromancer or otherwise) to prevent someone from picking their gear back up.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
What's the messaging for that, anyway?
>>Hand's are too injured to pick anything up. Okay..
IMO, death scars should cap out at a point where you can pick stuff up, or at least with a roundtime associated with it. While I appreciate the desire to make wounds matter, it seems excessively punitive (necromancer or otherwise) to prevent someone from picking their gear back up.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 01:58 PM CST
With areas like the genie wilderness in particular I wish the way out didn't require searching. Or at least do a visual search in the event you've lost limbs. Sorcerous backlash also strands you there.
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
FALKENWIND
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 02:27 PM CST
I think the primary issue I took with this particular Divine Smiting was the fact that I had literally zero recourse. I was so injured that I could literally do nothing to fix it, beyond relying on outside means, such as an Empath (LOL).
I could not forage. I could not consume/devour, and overland travel was next to impossible. Literally my only choices were get my alt, and/or wait until my DO was low enough to heal myself. A process that took more than an hour since my death scars involved full paralysis of every limb.
Being put in an impossible situation isn't the definition of Hard Mode, it's the definition of punitive. This is sounding more and more like a complaint, and I would like to assert that I love playing a Necromancer and the difficult situations I get put in, but I honestly feel this has to be some form of oversight.
I mean if this isn't an oversight and it's actually meant to be this difficult (impossible?) sometimes then I can adapt, but I really feel that this must be an unforeseen problem. A perfect storm maybe.
I could not forage. I could not consume/devour, and overland travel was next to impossible. Literally my only choices were get my alt, and/or wait until my DO was low enough to heal myself. A process that took more than an hour since my death scars involved full paralysis of every limb.
Being put in an impossible situation isn't the definition of Hard Mode, it's the definition of punitive. This is sounding more and more like a complaint, and I would like to assert that I love playing a Necromancer and the difficult situations I get put in, but I honestly feel this has to be some form of oversight.
I mean if this isn't an oversight and it's actually meant to be this difficult (impossible?) sometimes then I can adapt, but I really feel that this must be an unforeseen problem. A perfect storm maybe.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 02:49 PM CST
>I think the primary issue I took with this particular Divine Smiting was the fact that I had literally zero recourse. I was so injured that I could literally do nothing to fix it, beyond relying on outside means, such as an Empath (LOL).
Aside from having someone rub healing salves on you, I can envision this being a serious issue. I'm reminded of that new player who accidentally withdrew their bank account in coppers, and had a few plats worth of coppers on them, crushing burden, and was unable to stand. There fell over in some place that prevented dragging (or maybe because they were under 2nd circle they couldn't be dragged? I forget the mechanics here), and they couldn't give or drop the coin.
Glad it finally worked out though! I always DEPART DEATH and run!
Aside from having someone rub healing salves on you, I can envision this being a serious issue. I'm reminded of that new player who accidentally withdrew their bank account in coppers, and had a few plats worth of coppers on them, crushing burden, and was unable to stand. There fell over in some place that prevented dragging (or maybe because they were under 2nd circle they couldn't be dragged? I forget the mechanics here), and they couldn't give or drop the coin.
Glad it finally worked out though! I always DEPART DEATH and run!
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 03:05 PM CST
>>I always DEPART DEATH and run!
IIRC, a DO death is similar to being killed with HE/HH. It turns off being able to SRE from that death.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IIRC, a DO death is similar to being killed with HE/HH. It turns off being able to SRE from that death.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
DRFREAK
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 05:41 PM CST
So I had a similar experiance today... I decided a week or two ago to circle up from 165 to 176. Everything seemed fine. But a few days later i got a god smiting DO death. I waited 5 whole days not using any abilities that cause DO. I went back hunting and on my second day I died again from DO. I don't see how this system could be working correctly. I'm not casting nearly ANY DO causing spells or making any zombies between these deaths. just using preserve and harvest. And healing my own wounds. That's it.
Could a GM look into this? It feels like circle's past 150 do nothing but hurt us by raising our Base DO so high that we can't even train.
-Grave Lord Zerreck Arkarm
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 05:57 PM CST
>>just using preserve and harvest. And healing my own wounds.
I think that the amount of DO you get from non-preserve rituals is overall negligible, and exists only as a way to track if a Redeemed falls off the wagon, but the DO from CF/DEVOUR could still do you in depending on how much/often you use it. Those rituals can also end up triggering a Divine Smite, too.
That isn't to say that the base level of DO for high level Necromancers and/or the DO decay per day cap might need to be reassessed, but you might have been inadvertently doing something to throw off your decay rate more than you thought.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think that the amount of DO you get from non-preserve rituals is overall negligible, and exists only as a way to track if a Redeemed falls off the wagon, but the DO from CF/DEVOUR could still do you in depending on how much/often you use it. Those rituals can also end up triggering a Divine Smite, too.
That isn't to say that the base level of DO for high level Necromancers and/or the DO decay per day cap might need to be reassessed, but you might have been inadvertently doing something to throw off your decay rate more than you thought.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DRFREAK
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 06:03 PM CST
I know you like to respond to everything posted here. But I assure you. I died to perform harvest. And while healing myself does cause DO, that plus harvest and preserve should not be enough to kill a character. Otherwise whats the point of playing a necromancer? I have never had a problem with DO as a necromancer. Until breaking into the 170s.
-Zerreck Arkarm
CATHULU
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 06:07 PM CST
I wonder what will happen when you hit 200th?
Log-in - Instant smite!
Serves you dirty necromancers right.
- Erixx
Log-in - Instant smite!
Serves you dirty necromancers right.
- Erixx
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 06:55 PM CST
>>I died to perform harvest.
I know. Harvest causes DO. If you're already at the critical stage of DO, anything that causes DO can kill you. What I was saying is that rituals themselves shouldn't take you to that point. The only exception is preserve which is 0 DO.
>>And while healing myself does cause DO, that plus harvest and preserve should not be enough to kill a character.
It depends on how much/often you heal yourself. Do you clean up every possible scuff? Do you do this for hours on end? I can see that causing DO to max out.
>>I have never had a problem with DO as a necromancer. Until breaking into the 170s.
That's why I also said "the base level of DO for high level Necromancers and/or the DO decay per day cap might need to be reassessed," but you probably missed it in your bizarre desire to highlight the fact that I use the forums.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I know. Harvest causes DO. If you're already at the critical stage of DO, anything that causes DO can kill you. What I was saying is that rituals themselves shouldn't take you to that point. The only exception is preserve which is 0 DO.
>>And while healing myself does cause DO, that plus harvest and preserve should not be enough to kill a character.
It depends on how much/often you heal yourself. Do you clean up every possible scuff? Do you do this for hours on end? I can see that causing DO to max out.
>>I have never had a problem with DO as a necromancer. Until breaking into the 170s.
That's why I also said "the base level of DO for high level Necromancers and/or the DO decay per day cap might need to be reassessed," but you probably missed it in your bizarre desire to highlight the fact that I use the forums.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FALKENWIND
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 06:59 PM CST
I think one of the main issues is the fact that we were supposed to have alternate means of controlling/avoid DO and Smiting post Circle 100. I remember when the guild originally launched that an 'ultimate' form would be obtainable for each of the types of Necromancy, Lichdom as an example. If memory serves that was supposed to remove us from the random smiting and such.
This is not meant to chide the staff, they're doing a wonderful job, but perhaps high level necromancy needs some kind of stop-gap measure while more advanced systems are being worked on.
This is not meant to chide the staff, they're doing a wonderful job, but perhaps high level necromancy needs some kind of stop-gap measure while more advanced systems are being worked on.
ALGOTHI
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 07:03 PM CST
>But I assure you. I died to perform harvest. And while healing myself does cause DO, that plus harvest and preserve should not be enough to kill a character.
AFAIK you dont get struck down the moment you cross the DO threshold, instead every DO causing action done while in the end-zone gives you a moderate chance to get struck down. So its very unlikely that Harvest/Preserve/etc got you past the DO limit line with their minimal DO, but each attempt once past it could very easily trigger a smite.
It would be interesting to know approximately how close the base DO of a 200th level Necromancer is to the DO end-zone.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
AFAIK you dont get struck down the moment you cross the DO threshold, instead every DO causing action done while in the end-zone gives you a moderate chance to get struck down. So its very unlikely that Harvest/Preserve/etc got you past the DO limit line with their minimal DO, but each attempt once past it could very easily trigger a smite.
It would be interesting to know approximately how close the base DO of a 200th level Necromancer is to the DO end-zone.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
DRFREAK
Re: Implosion!
01/29/2014 07:18 PM CST
I realize everything you have all said. It's not wrong. I am sure that my base DO is so high now, that it is causing simple things like healing once every hour or two, on a bad day. And using harvest to kill me. After doing no DO causing things for many days.
Also, yes Lich release PLEASE.
-Zerreck Arkarm
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
01/30/2014 03:38 AM CST
not to plug premium, But...
there is one work-around to the not-being-able-to-pick things up thing, which lets you avoid the use of an alt- namely, bonding potions. if you bond whatever knife you use to perform rituals, you can invoke bond and then wear the item really quick before you drop it. I've had to do this on occasion, as most of my alts can't get into places my necro gets killed in <at least safely>.
Also, while alchemical potions will eventually replace these, stealing <or buying, if you're sufficiently clear of social outrage to do so> the existing healing herbs from shops will do until those herbs are changed. My complaint here is that the existing herbs don't heal the most severe injuries - hopefully the potions, salves, etc made with remedies crafting will.
The harvest ritual may very well be giving him sufficient D.O. at that level to get smited, although preserve is not supposed to give any.
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
there is one work-around to the not-being-able-to-pick things up thing, which lets you avoid the use of an alt- namely, bonding potions. if you bond whatever knife you use to perform rituals, you can invoke bond and then wear the item really quick before you drop it. I've had to do this on occasion, as most of my alts can't get into places my necro gets killed in <at least safely>.
Also, while alchemical potions will eventually replace these, stealing <or buying, if you're sufficiently clear of social outrage to do so> the existing healing herbs from shops will do until those herbs are changed. My complaint here is that the existing herbs don't heal the most severe injuries - hopefully the potions, salves, etc made with remedies crafting will.
The harvest ritual may very well be giving him sufficient D.O. at that level to get smited, although preserve is not supposed to give any.
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Implosion!
01/30/2014 10:34 AM CST
>>> hopefully the potions, salves, etc made with remedies crafting will.
When I accidentally blow my arms and hands off I can use a jadice ungent (not salve) to literally grow them back. In fact with a pewter catalyst I can blow them off, let them grow back and then repeat once before the remedy wears off. I am not sure if having high stamina might change the results as I only have 35 stamina. (I seem to recall that HP are static but the amount of damage is modified by stamina, but that may be wrong). The biggest problem is that if you healed your entire body with remedies, especially those made with a catalyst as toxic as pewter, you will be certain to suffer from at least moderate toxicity. Currently this does nothing but when it is enabled you could be somewhat debilitated until it wears off.
When I accidentally blow my arms and hands off I can use a jadice ungent (not salve) to literally grow them back. In fact with a pewter catalyst I can blow them off, let them grow back and then repeat once before the remedy wears off. I am not sure if having high stamina might change the results as I only have 35 stamina. (I seem to recall that HP are static but the amount of damage is modified by stamina, but that may be wrong). The biggest problem is that if you healed your entire body with remedies, especially those made with a catalyst as toxic as pewter, you will be certain to suffer from at least moderate toxicity. Currently this does nothing but when it is enabled you could be somewhat debilitated until it wears off.
MOD-HELJE
Re: Implosion! ::NUDGE::
01/30/2014 12:31 PM CST
Let's try and leave the bickering out of our posts here, please.
Remember this is a no-conflict folder, which can generate accelerated penalties for those who cannot follow the rules.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
Remember this is a no-conflict folder, which can generate accelerated penalties for those who cannot follow the rules.
Helje
DragonRealms Board Monitor
If you have any questions or comments, please contact me at MOD-Helje@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Sidatura at DR-Sidatura@play.net, or Message Board Supervisor Annwyl DR-Annwyl@play.net.
JASON42
Re: Implosion!
01/30/2014 05:56 PM CST
>>It would be interesting to know approximately how close the base DO of a 200th level Necromancer is to the DO end-zone.
Rhoat is 184th
You kneel down and begin to pray.
As though in response, you have a brief, sharp pain in your limbs.
The experience leaves you feeling somehow exposed.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Its been 3 seconds for the last 25+ circles?
I use almost ZERO DO causing stuff - mostly because so much of what I do is so repetitive I can be at max DO in only a few days. (last time I tried)
- Kart / Rhoat
Rhoat is 184th
You kneel down and begin to pray.
As though in response, you have a brief, sharp pain in your limbs.
The experience leaves you feeling somehow exposed.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Its been 3 seconds for the last 25+ circles?
I use almost ZERO DO causing stuff - mostly because so much of what I do is so repetitive I can be at max DO in only a few days. (last time I tried)
- Kart / Rhoat
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
01/30/2014 09:25 PM CST
<<The experience leaves you feeling somehow exposed.
Roundtime: 3 sec>>
doing it that way gives you a bit of DO as well. If you put ROC up first, you won't get the "exposed" line that renders the DO.
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
Roundtime: 3 sec>>
doing it that way gives you a bit of DO as well. If you put ROC up first, you won't get the "exposed" line that renders the DO.
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
ALGOTHI
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 12:10 AM CST
>doing it that way gives you a bit of DO as well.
Melete confirmed that this is false. The latest HE gift does this when worn and that's when she confirmed its purely messaging.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Melete confirmed that this is false. The latest HE gift does this when worn and that's when she confirmed its purely messaging.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 12:18 AM CST
>>Melete confirmed that this is false. The latest HE gift does this when worn and that's when she confirmed its purely messaging.
Yep.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Yep.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DR-MELETE
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 12:18 AM CST
The HE gift is just messaging. I don't recall saying anything about the pray mechs, but this is usually the part where someone produces an Elanthipedia post contradicting me and I go, "oh."
However, I also don't think anyone has ever said that praying gives DO either. PAFO, PAFO -- everywhere PAFO. Since the HE gift is something you're (kinda sorta) paying for, I just wanted to be extra duper clear that it doesn't have any built-in mechs that make it worse for Necros to use.
Melete
Events Lead
Advocates Lead
Empath Advocate
Lore Developer
However, I also don't think anyone has ever said that praying gives DO either. PAFO, PAFO -- everywhere PAFO. Since the HE gift is something you're (kinda sorta) paying for, I just wanted to be extra duper clear that it doesn't have any built-in mechs that make it worse for Necros to use.
Melete
Events Lead
Advocates Lead
Empath Advocate
Lore Developer
ALGOTHI
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 12:23 AM CST
I am fairly sure it was confirmed, but I will admit I have been wrong before! That said it could be fairly easy to test, should there be someone willing after a smite to pray several times and see it if triggers again. For science!
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 12:31 AM CST
>>I don't recall saying anything about the pray mechs, but this is usually the part where someone produces an Elanthipedia post contradicting me and I go, "oh."
Your secret is safe with me, Melete. :P
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Your secret is safe with me, Melete. :P
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
MOCKERJB
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 01:25 AM CST
I thought praying gives you SO at the expense of a neutral DO check.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 01:34 AM CST
>>I thought praying gives you SO at the expense of a neutral DO check.
I initially thought it gave DO unless you had RoC up, but then Melete confused me when she said what she said around HE, and now she confused me again.
Not exactly sure why it would thematically give a SO check, since you don't need to be around society to do it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I initially thought it gave DO unless you had RoC up, but then Melete confused me when she said what she said around HE, and now she confused me again.
Not exactly sure why it would thematically give a SO check, since you don't need to be around society to do it.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 02:09 AM CST
<< That said it could be fairly easy to test, should there be someone willing after a smite to pray several times and see it if triggers again. For science!>>
sorry, closest I ever came to a smiting is after doing the rose/marriage thing <had the "sharp pain in the chest" messaging>, after which I sat in the crafthalls and did nothing but carve for the next week or so until it got back down to a manageable level. I don't want to get that close again, so no testing! :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
DR-MELETE
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 02:22 AM CST
>>Melete confused me when she said what she said around HE, and now she confused me again
Haha, sorry. Pray is just not my thing, so it'd be hinky for me to be telling ya'll what it does and doesn't do.
Test being open is a great time to test PAFO'y things though. :]
Melete
Events Lead
Advocates Lead
Empath Advocate
Lore Developer
Haha, sorry. Pray is just not my thing, so it'd be hinky for me to be telling ya'll what it does and doesn't do.
Test being open is a great time to test PAFO'y things though. :]
Melete
Events Lead
Advocates Lead
Empath Advocate
Lore Developer
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
01/31/2014 02:25 AM CST
you heard her Divult. go get married in test! :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
FALKENWIND
Re: Implosion!
02/01/2014 04:22 PM CST
Well.. I imploded again.
I'm not even using DO generating spells, just using my rituals to move Thanatology. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing once I reach this point.
I guess I'm feeling a bit.. Put out. No other guild deals with the kind of hardships we do, and I know that is something I signed up for, but the deck seems a little too stacked against us.
We can't use our buffs to hunt like other guilds without fear of being struck down. Same goes for out pets. RP most of the time devolves into griefing via in game mechanics, and.. There is no reward for all of this risk, beyond maybe the right to say that you're one of the few who put up with this kind of abuse.
Honestly if you take any single disadvantage we suffer under it's already more than any other guild has, plus we're unfinished, we don't have our tools. I don't want to be Lyras, or The Old Man, or Sidholt. What I want is to be able to play the class I've chosen.
I've spoken to truly high circle Necromancers and honestly there doesn't seem to be much of a light at the end of the tunnel, in fact it seems to only get worse in a way (since our DO ceiling gets lower and lower and lower..)
At what point does the line between a game and a bizarre experience to see how much we can endure begin to blur.
I'm not even using DO generating spells, just using my rituals to move Thanatology. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing once I reach this point.
I guess I'm feeling a bit.. Put out. No other guild deals with the kind of hardships we do, and I know that is something I signed up for, but the deck seems a little too stacked against us.
We can't use our buffs to hunt like other guilds without fear of being struck down. Same goes for out pets. RP most of the time devolves into griefing via in game mechanics, and.. There is no reward for all of this risk, beyond maybe the right to say that you're one of the few who put up with this kind of abuse.
Honestly if you take any single disadvantage we suffer under it's already more than any other guild has, plus we're unfinished, we don't have our tools. I don't want to be Lyras, or The Old Man, or Sidholt. What I want is to be able to play the class I've chosen.
I've spoken to truly high circle Necromancers and honestly there doesn't seem to be much of a light at the end of the tunnel, in fact it seems to only get worse in a way (since our DO ceiling gets lower and lower and lower..)
At what point does the line between a game and a bizarre experience to see how much we can endure begin to blur.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
02/01/2014 05:40 PM CST
<<Honestly if you take any single disadvantage we suffer under it's already more than any other guild has, plus we're unfinished>>
I can't say truthfully that any other guild is truly "finished", some are just "more finished" than others. Since I play all guilds to one degree or another, I can give you a few examples.
For instance:
1. Bards have to train 100s of ranks of musical performance. Which do zilch other than help you play instruments better, and yield titles.
2. Traders.In terms of TDPS, they're badly lacking. They are going to eventually get magic. Key word - eventually. Try working combat as a trader. Look up Apu's posts
for further edification. :-)
3. Rangers. years under Treveri, they were the "hard-mode" guild.
4. Of the various sects of Moon Mages, which are one of the "more" developed guilds out there, there are a number of sects that can't even use their tools yet.
5. WM familiars. Basically have been the same old, same old since ... hmm, when were fir familiars released? 1998?
So, everyone else has various guild issues as well. We'll get there. In the meantime, there are things you can do to lessen the pain of DO.
Don't spend all your time using necromancer magic in combat. Spend time doing other things as well. Craft. Train mundane weapons. Use other spells <MAF,etc>. Don't yield to the common DR rat race of trying to circle so fast. :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
I can't say truthfully that any other guild is truly "finished", some are just "more finished" than others. Since I play all guilds to one degree or another, I can give you a few examples.
For instance:
1. Bards have to train 100s of ranks of musical performance. Which do zilch other than help you play instruments better, and yield titles.
2. Traders.In terms of TDPS, they're badly lacking. They are going to eventually get magic. Key word - eventually. Try working combat as a trader. Look up Apu's posts
for further edification. :-)
3. Rangers. years under Treveri, they were the "hard-mode" guild.
4. Of the various sects of Moon Mages, which are one of the "more" developed guilds out there, there are a number of sects that can't even use their tools yet.
5. WM familiars. Basically have been the same old, same old since ... hmm, when were fir familiars released? 1998?
So, everyone else has various guild issues as well. We'll get there. In the meantime, there are things you can do to lessen the pain of DO.
Don't spend all your time using necromancer magic in combat. Spend time doing other things as well. Craft. Train mundane weapons. Use other spells <MAF,etc>. Don't yield to the common DR rat race of trying to circle so fast. :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Implosion!
02/01/2014 07:33 PM CST
I don't use trans spells while training and haven't had to many issues yet. But I do this because I know there IS issues and don't feel like getting smote. Teaching ranges and other changes with 3.1 I fear will make things pretty hard to hunt at level without buffs. But I went into this knowing I would have drawbacks because I figured I'd also have some abilities that would be quite powerful compared to other guilds options. I don't see this as the case as of yet sadly. Time will tell though.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Implosion!
02/01/2014 07:50 PM CST
<<because I figured I'd also have some abilities that would be quite powerful compared to other guilds options. I don't see this as the case as of yet sadly. Time will tell though.>>
No one ever said in exchange for the advanced nature if this guild your character will be more powerful If you gut it out. The guild is still in balance with the others in addition to being hard mode. I'd argue their skill set setup actually makes a hlc necro weaker than many others.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
No one ever said in exchange for the advanced nature if this guild your character will be more powerful If you gut it out. The guild is still in balance with the others in addition to being hard mode. I'd argue their skill set setup actually makes a hlc necro weaker than many others.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Implosion!
02/01/2014 09:36 PM CST
>>But I do this because I know there IS issues and don't feel like getting smote.
I'm not Armifer-ologist but I could have sworn he said that he's not too thrilled with the stage of how players manage DO right now (aka: a good number of necros just not bothering to cast most DO causing spells), so he wants to poke at it sooner or later with that in mind.
>>Teaching ranges and other changes with 3.1 I fear will make things pretty hard to hunt at level without buffs.
IMO, once you're at the stage where you need to keep up a bunch of trans spells in order to function (if there is a point making that necessary anyway), you can probably get nice long durations out of them. Since you temporarily don't gain DO from repeat casts of the same DO granting books, as long as you toss up your trans spells at the same time you have a good 30-40 minutes of hunting between refreshes.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'm not Armifer-ologist but I could have sworn he said that he's not too thrilled with the stage of how players manage DO right now (aka: a good number of necros just not bothering to cast most DO causing spells), so he wants to poke at it sooner or later with that in mind.
>>Teaching ranges and other changes with 3.1 I fear will make things pretty hard to hunt at level without buffs.
IMO, once you're at the stage where you need to keep up a bunch of trans spells in order to function (if there is a point making that necessary anyway), you can probably get nice long durations out of them. Since you temporarily don't gain DO from repeat casts of the same DO granting books, as long as you toss up your trans spells at the same time you have a good 30-40 minutes of hunting between refreshes.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
FALKENWIND
Re: Implosion!
02/02/2014 12:28 AM CST
Everything that's been said is exactly my issue in a nutshell. I don't believe that we should have some inherent advantage just because of the disadvantages we suffer, I know that it has been said that our guild is designed to 'lose' from a Lore standpoint. What I do believe is that our guild should be at least close to equal of other guilds.
I look at the depths of other guilds tool boxes, namely Cleric, Barbarian, Thief and to some extent even Rogue and War Mage and I can't help but feel jealous, and the answer should never be "Well play those classes then."
There is a great deal I love about being a Necromancer, but it is hard to not feel punished for this lol.
I look at the depths of other guilds tool boxes, namely Cleric, Barbarian, Thief and to some extent even Rogue and War Mage and I can't help but feel jealous, and the answer should never be "Well play those classes then."
There is a great deal I love about being a Necromancer, but it is hard to not feel punished for this lol.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Implosion!
02/02/2014 05:57 AM CST
I have a feeling that's what the GMs intend.
From the get-go its harder, not only from the lore perspective, but mechanically as well.
You want to join the Barbs? go see agonar, they beat ya up a bit, boom, you're a barbarian.
You want to join the WMs? Gauthus hits you in the forehead, zap, you're a Warmage.
Even the thieves don't take an extremely long time to join.
But the Necromancers? You gotta do time-consuming stuff, do more stuff, do more stuff, until finally Book takes you on.
Even from the standpoint of TDPs to join up. Barbs require the least, with 45 total tdps required. Necromancers are the most at 61.
<for the record:
Barbs 45, Bard 51, Clerics 48, Empath 49, MM 48, Necro 61, Paladin 50, Ranger 50, Thief 52, Trader 49, WM 48> derived from adding up the stats required in minimum stats to join each guild>
additionally, Book tells you, among other things after you get the zap that gives you your attunement: You have 2 things all Necromancers will have to deal with, Social Outrage and Divine Outrage. So you're warned from the outset that that is all part of the plan. I dunno, but it kinda sounds like at least we get bragging rights that our guild is the most difficult, at least. :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
From the get-go its harder, not only from the lore perspective, but mechanically as well.
You want to join the Barbs? go see agonar, they beat ya up a bit, boom, you're a barbarian.
You want to join the WMs? Gauthus hits you in the forehead, zap, you're a Warmage.
Even the thieves don't take an extremely long time to join.
But the Necromancers? You gotta do time-consuming stuff, do more stuff, do more stuff, until finally Book takes you on.
Even from the standpoint of TDPs to join up. Barbs require the least, with 45 total tdps required. Necromancers are the most at 61.
<for the record:
Barbs 45, Bard 51, Clerics 48, Empath 49, MM 48, Necro 61, Paladin 50, Ranger 50, Thief 52, Trader 49, WM 48> derived from adding up the stats required in minimum stats to join each guild>
additionally, Book tells you, among other things after you get the zap that gives you your attunement: You have 2 things all Necromancers will have to deal with, Social Outrage and Divine Outrage. So you're warned from the outset that that is all part of the plan. I dunno, but it kinda sounds like at least we get bragging rights that our guild is the most difficult, at least. :-)
<<If I can't cast thunderclap, you can't summon the dark lord of the abyss to devour the flesh of the innocent>>
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Implosion!
02/02/2014 09:05 AM CST
I would suggest not circling after a certain point to avoid the DO ceiling crush. It's not a good solution, but as with many things in DR, the guild seems to be designed such that once you reach higher circles, things start to break down. Lich and Redeemed were likely envisioned to be choices undertaken around, say, 100th. I haven't circled my Necromancer since he hit 100th, which was a while ago.
