I find it a bit absurd, you can be found out from collecting a pile of items.
~~The Riverhaven Warden scans the area with a watchful eye.
The Warden stares intently at you for a long moment. Soon thereafter, the Warden's gaze moves on, you seem to have evaded notice for the moment.~~
EITZENP
HAMBARD
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 12:06 PM CDT
The insane are often known for absurdities.
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
Player of Ryken
---
"Life expectancy would grow by leaps and bounds if green vegetables smelled as good as bacon." ~ Doug Larson
AIM - RykenDR
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 12:58 PM CDT
>>I find it a bit absurd, you can be found out from collecting a pile of items.
Think of it as a subconscious tick your character has.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Think of it as a subconscious tick your character has.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 02:01 PM CDT
If you want to fool everyone into thinking you're a ranger, You're in the wrong guild. Go see the thieves for the wink and nod type slight of hand. Necs are psychotic, broken, murderers that live only for the sake of finding ways to prolong that life. They live, thus, without real purpose, which I personally like to consider to be part of the illness.
You aren't meant to live under false assumptions... Your means and methods are out in the open and their very nature is terrifying. You will eventually be discovered, but trust me, if you embrace it when that happens, the guild is a real blast-more than when you sneaking around, limited. In fact, the sneaky is really only enjoyable BECAUSE of the things people think when they finally know. If you keep trying to pretend, it will be very frustrating.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
You aren't meant to live under false assumptions... Your means and methods are out in the open and their very nature is terrifying. You will eventually be discovered, but trust me, if you embrace it when that happens, the guild is a real blast-more than when you sneaking around, limited. In fact, the sneaky is really only enjoyable BECAUSE of the things people think when they finally know. If you keep trying to pretend, it will be very frustrating.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 02:52 PM CDT
>>Necs are psychotic, broken, murderers that live only for the sake of finding ways to prolong that life.
Only one thing in this list is explicitly true of anyone in the guild.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Only one thing in this list is explicitly true of anyone in the guild.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 03:08 PM CDT
Yes, but it is kind of like saying rangers are good at hiding, or barbarians don't use devices of an inherently magical nature. It is entirely possible to NOT conform to these things, but it really isn't aligned with the nature of the guild.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
ALGOTHI
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 03:14 PM CDT
>I find it a bit absurd, you can be found out from collecting a pile of items.
Its easy enough to avoid, dont collect piles in populated areas and dont leave them laying around for any longer then you need them.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
Its easy enough to avoid, dont collect piles in populated areas and dont leave them laying around for any longer then you need them.
Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
EITZENP
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 04:37 PM CDT
I am already pretty open with my play and not really hiding it, by trying to pretend I am from another guild. Needless to say though, I won't be collecting in crowded justice zones anymore. Luckily though someone just brought it up to my attention in game and didn't make the night any more interesting then it could have been for better or worse because of it.
While not going out of my way and I am sure there are others that don't either. To hide our characters dark path, I just thought this little extra tell was kinda eh.. That goes for the whole being able to tell any guild membership from the arrangement of random items (Save a thief, pretending). But hey, that is really my biggest complaint so far, so I guess that is a good thing.
I am sorry, I didn't realize it had been mentioned before and I came to post before reading complaints of others.
~~The Riverhaven Warden scans the area with a watchful eye.
The Warden stares intently at you for a long moment. Soon thereafter, the Warden's gaze moves on, you seem to have evaded notice for the moment.~~
While not going out of my way and I am sure there are others that don't either. To hide our characters dark path, I just thought this little extra tell was kinda eh.. That goes for the whole being able to tell any guild membership from the arrangement of random items (Save a thief, pretending). But hey, that is really my biggest complaint so far, so I guess that is a good thing.
I am sorry, I didn't realize it had been mentioned before and I came to post before reading complaints of others.
~~The Riverhaven Warden scans the area with a watchful eye.
The Warden stares intently at you for a long moment. Soon thereafter, the Warden's gaze moves on, you seem to have evaded notice for the moment.~~
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 08:41 PM CDT
>>It is entirely possible to NOT conform to these things, but it really isn't aligned with the nature of the guild.
Necromancers aren't necessarily psychotic. Broken, definitely. But not psychotic by default. AFAIK, Philosophers running around totally coo-coo bananas would be rather bad for what Book and his generals want to accomplish. They do not want more Perverse or, worse case scenario, a Lyras 2.0 running around.
As for the murderers part... it's more poor public relations than anything else. A Necromancer harvests the organs of a few hobo louts and it's an affront to society. A Barbarian collects their skulls for a juggling act and it's all in good fun.
I generally think of the average guild member as a series of unstable chemicals ready to explode as opposed to a series of kabooms currently walking around.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Necromancers aren't necessarily psychotic. Broken, definitely. But not psychotic by default. AFAIK, Philosophers running around totally coo-coo bananas would be rather bad for what Book and his generals want to accomplish. They do not want more Perverse or, worse case scenario, a Lyras 2.0 running around.
As for the murderers part... it's more poor public relations than anything else. A Necromancer harvests the organs of a few hobo louts and it's an affront to society. A Barbarian collects their skulls for a juggling act and it's all in good fun.
I generally think of the average guild member as a series of unstable chemicals ready to explode as opposed to a series of kabooms currently walking around.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 08:42 PM CDT
>>I just thought this little extra tell was kinda eh..
Think of it as doing a really good job hiding the bodies but forgetting you had blood on your shoe.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Think of it as doing a really good job hiding the bodies but forgetting you had blood on your shoe.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 09:15 PM CDT
>I am sorry, I didn't realize it had been mentioned before and I came to post before reading complaints of others.
The thing I still feel is ridiculous is that you can be DEMEANOR COLD and a ranger can walk up to you and shake your hand. It's AFAIK the only Necromancer tell that we have ZERO control over.
You can choose to not circle and keep base DO lower than Cleric/Moonie/Empath detection. You can even set DEMEANOR to prevent Empaths from touching you. You can not collect in public. You can not cast any Necro spells.
But a ranger can shake your hand and tell you're not one of them. Warmies can't check for Elemental alignment. Moonies can, as mentioned, be duped.
Life ruse is the worst.
The thing I still feel is ridiculous is that you can be DEMEANOR COLD and a ranger can walk up to you and shake your hand. It's AFAIK the only Necromancer tell that we have ZERO control over.
You can choose to not circle and keep base DO lower than Cleric/Moonie/Empath detection. You can even set DEMEANOR to prevent Empaths from touching you. You can not collect in public. You can not cast any Necro spells.
But a ranger can shake your hand and tell you're not one of them. Warmies can't check for Elemental alignment. Moonies can, as mentioned, be duped.
Life ruse is the worst.
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/15/2013 11:45 PM CDT
Once again, you aren't really meant to pretend.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/16/2013 07:20 AM CDT
It's less a matter of pretending, and more a matter of evading detection. I'm not disappointed I can't handshake like a Ranger, I'm disappointed Rangers can shake my hand regardless of whether or not I let them.
If my demeanor keeps an Empaths touch away, I don't understand why it doesn't keep a handshake away. A handshake is more voluntary than being touched.
If my demeanor keeps an Empaths touch away, I don't understand why it doesn't keep a handshake away. A handshake is more voluntary than being touched.
THELOST1
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/16/2013 04:30 PM CDT
For that tell to actually BE a tell, you have to be pretending to be a ranger.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/16/2013 05:34 PM CDT
I've found it phenomenally easier to just pretend to be boring than any particular guild. People end up painting a picture of you themselves at that point, and they do a better job filling in the blanks themselves than accepting what you tell them to accept. Before I stopped keeping my character's guild secret OOG, people assumed I was playing a Trader or Thief more often than not, but that was with no real effort to give that impression on my part.
They just saw the way my character acted and painted the picture themselves ("Well, that character sure talks about doing odd jobs for Mags a lot, so probably a Trader?" "Always hiding during invasions, so Thief I suppose" etc). Some did assume Necro, mainly because I wasn't trying to make a big deal about things, but there was no real situation to push the question since my character was generally inconsequential.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
They just saw the way my character acted and painted the picture themselves ("Well, that character sure talks about doing odd jobs for Mags a lot, so probably a Trader?" "Always hiding during invasions, so Thief I suppose" etc). Some did assume Necro, mainly because I wasn't trying to make a big deal about things, but there was no real situation to push the question since my character was generally inconsequential.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/16/2013 10:26 PM CDT
Nah, I'm talking about ways to mitigate random spot checks. Sure, you can hold that Necromancers shouldn't be able to hold up to scrutiny, but we've things in place to prevent active scrutiny. RoC, DEMEANOR COLD, not having up any spells, etc. Having a ranger shake your hand isn't a problem because we don't shake like the ranger we're masquerading as, it's a problem because there's nothing we can do to prevent or circumvent the check.
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 08:18 AM CDT
I stand by my analysis...
A great way to avoid being outed when you're 'checked' is to not be masquerading as a ranger. No ranger goes up a warmage, shakes his hand, then immediately cries 'Necromancer'. All the ranger can actually determine is NOT RANGER/THIEF PRETENDING TO BE A RANGER. If you aren't pretending to be a ranger, the ranger gets nothing.
I agree with TEVE above... Although you don't need to be 'boring'. My nec seems to be getting a pass despite making a general scene in public locations multiple times each day.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
A great way to avoid being outed when you're 'checked' is to not be masquerading as a ranger. No ranger goes up a warmage, shakes his hand, then immediately cries 'Necromancer'. All the ranger can actually determine is NOT RANGER/THIEF PRETENDING TO BE A RANGER. If you aren't pretending to be a ranger, the ranger gets nothing.
I agree with TEVE above... Although you don't need to be 'boring'. My nec seems to be getting a pass despite making a general scene in public locations multiple times each day.
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 08:24 AM CDT
And how did Armifer put it? If someone is shaking your hand to check to see if your a ranger or not, it's time to VIV his face off and get out of town?
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
MELLIONM6
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 08:27 AM CDT
A.) That's "You're"
B.) Yay for triple-post!
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
B.) Yay for triple-post!
--Wryhk
"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." ~Dwight D. Eisenhower
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 09:49 AM CDT
I do understand the sentiment, I'm not disputing the notion that any scrutiny means you're already a bit too late to the 'be subtle' party, and I do partially agree with it. My point isn't that we SHOULD be able to hide effectively, but that the minimum amount of hiding available to us SHOULD include not shaking someone's hand.
If an Empath walks around touching people and then demands anyone who refuses the touch prove they aren't a Necromancer that's fine. But a Ranger shouldn't be able to walk around with a Moonie, shaking the hand of everyone who perceives as Life, to instantly tell if the person is a Necromancer.
Again, I'm not making an argument for hiding effectively, I'm making an argument for at a minimum being in control of mitigating passive detection methods. We have RoC to hide our favor count and mana type from Clerics and Moonies. We have DEMEANOR to prevent being touched by Empaths. The one that sort of snuck through is Rangers being able to shake our hands.
If an Empath walks around touching people and then demands anyone who refuses the touch prove they aren't a Necromancer that's fine. But a Ranger shouldn't be able to walk around with a Moonie, shaking the hand of everyone who perceives as Life, to instantly tell if the person is a Necromancer.
Again, I'm not making an argument for hiding effectively, I'm making an argument for at a minimum being in control of mitigating passive detection methods. We have RoC to hide our favor count and mana type from Clerics and Moonies. We have DEMEANOR to prevent being touched by Empaths. The one that sort of snuck through is Rangers being able to shake our hands.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 10:49 AM CDT
>>But a Ranger shouldn't be able to walk around with a Moonie, shaking the hand of everyone who perceives as Life, to instantly tell if the person is a Necromancer.
Why? That seems to be the proper level of paranoid fanaticism.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Why? That seems to be the proper level of paranoid fanaticism.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 11:49 AM CDT
It's a detection that seems too passive. It doesn't require any effort on the part of the detector, and is unavoidable on the part of the necromancer.
I don't expect it to change, I just think it's an unfortunate imbalance.
I don't expect it to change, I just think it's an unfortunate imbalance.
KHIOL
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 04:34 PM CDT
The rangr handshake is not something I saw being used(or abused) back before Khiol was outted. He hung out out in front of the rangers in crossing and at the ranger tend in haven. Never got outted to handshakes. That said if it is happening thats awesome. I hope the populace gets some kinda fire to find these dirty necro's and purge the lands, would be refreshing to see. Not some camping and harassment type thing but a bit more anti-necro RP. Seen a little increase in it lately maybe its coming...
You feel a brief sense of unease, as if somehow, somewhere, you'd run afoul of the law.
You feel a brief sense of unease, as if somehow, somewhere, you'd run afoul of the law.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Collect
10/17/2013 04:42 PM CDT
Oh, curious, my confirmed public outing came when I was hanging out outside Riverhaven, wherein a Ranger shook my hand on a whim and then OOC'd me that he was going to start RPing a conflict, and it was up to me if I wanted it to escalate to a fight. I give the guy props for handling it in a fun manner.
I also had a number of instances of training swimming on the Feldasu, where a Ranger would shake my hand and then start harassing me.
And a few instances of roving Moon Mages with Rangers PERCing and then shaking hands.
Shrug.
I also had a number of instances of training swimming on the Feldasu, where a Ranger would shake my hand and then start harassing me.
And a few instances of roving Moon Mages with Rangers PERCing and then shaking hands.
Shrug.
