Ok where to start, well lets just start by saying necromancers need a spell that will help them in pvp PV does not stun or lower there defense in anyway there AOE immobilize spell also does no help lower defense. Vivisection is kind of a joke it has no qualities of SNIPE besides you stay hidden. it does not bypasses defense if you win the hiding vs perception contest, it needs to have a bonus like backstab or snipe not in damage but being able to bypass shield like a DFA or LB which bypasses shields... I've pvp'd along time and get mad at the fact that necromancers has no way of beating someone equal or with less in rank's example my Moon mage has 120 shield and 150 evasion my necromancer with 220 TM can't hit him with any spell in his arsenal blb,acs,vivi,sv,bolt PV/VS is worthless because it does not disable there defense so immobilizing and casting does nothing for hitting them...

Anyway my Moon mage 120 shield,150 evasion can dodge my necromancer's 220 Vivi/blb fully targeted spell even if he uses PV/Vs's on him he still wont land it, but my moon mage with 163 TM can nail my necromancer with 200 evasion and 200 shield using burn... If my moon mage really wanted to he could MB and Dazzle and completely own my Necromancer with a fully targeted PD before he even recovers from the stun, but the sad truth is he don't even have to do that he can kill him with burn.. Now where is that balanced A lower ranked combat moon mage with less dodge and shield can completely dodge my necromancers offense, but a Moon mage with less TM can beat my necromancer hands down with Burn or MB/Dazzle combo and PD..

Only option I have is hopefully they havent started the consent by killing my zombie and I can stop there movement with VS/PV combo and let my undead kill them but thats time consuming if I don't have a zombie up, rangers even get a web which lowers defense and stuns someone long enough for them to land a fully aimed poach or snipe...

My main concern is killing someone that hunts where I hunt I'm not asking to kill people way over my circle but be able to defend my hunting area if they hunt where I hunt chances are I have nothing at my disposal to kill them without using a cj...

But also a moon mage can kill me easily with less TM and I can't even hit them I mean come on 220 TM and i cant hit a moon mage with 120 shield and 150 evasion I have no spells to stun or disable any of there defense to make my spells land...

Thiefs can kill me easily though with backstab/snipe (shield bypass) (khri), also Rangers with snipe (bypass) (web), moon mage can stun lock and kill me, barbarian can stun and kill me about every class has something that can stun so they can kill oppents equal in ranks... Clerics, Heck even a empath can put you to sleep and kill you....

My necromancer has no edge to killing someone they are very weak actually, the best bet I would have is train a tert weapon and use VS and ambush them.

moon mage was 120 shield 150 evasion 300 pm 163 TM
necromancer 200 shield 200 evasion 220 tm 320 pm
And the moon mage can own my necromancer not only with burn but with MB/Dazzle and a PD

I haven't tried killing anyone with my necromancer, but have no doubt that I could do it if I wanted to. You don't have anywhere near the skills you're going to need to "defend" your hunting area as you call it. I don't know why you'd need to do that. Evidently you're way out there in the open and not trying to hide the fact that you're a necromancer. Not that you have to hide it, but you need to realize you're going to get owned more often than not, especially with those skills.

If you were wishing you were more like the other guilds you mentioned, then play those other guilds. Perhaps your playing style, race selection, stat distribution, or something else is contributing to your issues.

Elvis has left the building.

I'm not discussing pvp tactics, I'm just pointing out how weak are offense is are best offense to bypass anyones defense is a TERT weapon and ambushing, are spells can only hit people who hunt below us we can't hit anyone equal in skill...

Other classes can atleast kill people who are equal in ranks mainly thiefs, rangers, war mage, moon mages, barbarians..

I was giving examples like a ranger/moonie/thief/barb/war mage who has 150 main weapon/skill can easily kill someone with 200 evasion/shield, but a necromancer can't hit anyone with there magic even 220 TM and with the necromancer's magic arsenal will not touch 200 evasion/shield and they don't have any spells/abilities which would assist in hitting said person, but almost all other classes do if not having skills like snipe/backstab/DFA spell that would not need a disabler skill/spell...

You are survival prime. Not magic prime.

You can also whip out mudmen and other nasty attacks.

Of course you're going to lose when you only compare a necro to a mm on 1-2 magic categories. Or a necro to a thief on BS only. You're taking the premier functions of other guilds and shining you can't blow those out of the water while ignoring necros best strengths.

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Slight tangent here,

2. "Watch" them. Watch gives a huge perception boost,

I'd like to see the end of such a stupid mechanic. But yes, for sure use it while we have it.

There are a ton of factors that come into play especially in PvP that could be contributing to this that we don't know (ex. stats for spell contests, mana put into spells).

Another important thing to note is that comparing characters at the lower end of the scale will favor gimmicks and guild strength heavily, as you start to circle you will find in ways things can change and a bit more variety comes out in addition to the gimmicks and skill set abilities.

Viv takes time to grow into the great spell it is especially as your survival ranks give you the rather ungodly (pun intended) advantage of stealth to synergize with.

< 24 empty spell slots & 1 guildhall >

this will be remedied partially in 3.0 with spell feats plus learning analag spells. Plus there are 2 new necro spells that are pretty cool. <look down a few folders to 3.0 topic for details. Then go test everything in test. <open to prime people now>. There's a limit to how much 4 people of various circle ranges could test platside, so nows the chance to break stuff - and hopefully get it fixed -- before it hits prime. :-)

But the 1 guildhall thing... I hope to see more necro-lore-fu once 3.0 arrives in prime and settles down a bit.

An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

>>Getting a guildhall or two out would be a nice 2013 thing, though.

A farmer arrives with a shambling Uwresari in tow.

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>... otherwise zombies and constructs die way to easy.

Ive never had issues with Zombies dying easy, they have always been rather robust when compared to constructs. What stance and behavior do you keep them in, how is your TM compared to the critter they are fighting?

Elusive
mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur

Well, you do have to factor in that with constructs, necros have a built in group, which is unique. Nobody else gets to play 'look at me while my pet destroys you'.

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Thanks Vinjince, mighty kind of you to chime in. I wish something like this would happen too, but given the 3.0 push I'm not sure that it would happen anytime soon. In 3.0 as of the last time I checked our zombies made via CFB can be dispelled via Dispel. Its pretty crazy and I hope they at least make it so you can't dispel a created pet.

<<In 3.0 as of the last time I checked our zombies made via CFB can be dispelled via Dispel. Its pretty crazy and I hope they at least make it so you can't dispel a created pet.>>

this.


Just think. all they would have had to do is cast dispel on Lyras, and they could have stopped the invasion....



An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

>Ucu


I actually agree with everything you said. Im justing using the phrase "abilities". Im really referring to anything guild-specific that relies on survival skills. I realize that magic secondary appears to be a grey subject. Necromancers , Empaths and Bards all rely heavily on magic.

>>Now that immobilize doesn't penalize defense anymore

A player saying that immobilization doesn't penalize defense isn't the same as a GM saying it, for two reasons:

1) It may actually be penalizing defense but the player isn't recognizing it for whatever reason
2) If it's not penalizing defense, it may be a bug with immobilization as a whole in the Test instance

The only thing about immobilization that I'm personally not a fan of is that the durations aren't as long as they used to be, similar to how stun, webbed, and unconscious were reduced in duration.

I know that I see a difference between USOL hitting with and without VS backing it up..

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>All in all , it does seem ,so far, that the guild has only gotten down tweaks in 3.0 .

I do have to correct myself and say that Ivory Mask is definitely a big up-tweak.

>>Necro players aren't sold on the isolated.

Yeah, if Necromancers are known for anything, it's not being isolated.

>>As a PvP guild , we're mainly concerned with how things work in the schoolyard. When an effect is handed to us , our first thoughts go to how it will measure up in a fight vs All the other Guilds abilities.

Do you have a zombie in your pocket, because you're sure talking about more than yourself here as if you're an authority on what "we" want and what "we're" concerned about.

>>The new duration for Immobilize is short , especially considering that fights are supposed to last longer.

Immobilizations, stuns, sleeps, webs, everything is shorter.

>>Dispelling zombies feels like heresy.

Not sure if we had GM confirmation on this yet, but I feel rather confident in saying that zombies being dispelled is a bug more than a feature.

>>All in all , it does seem ,so far, that the guild has only gotten down tweaks in 3.0 .

While I have my issues with some changes for the guild in 3.0, this is a rather dramatic overreaction. BLB now does splash damage. USOL is USOL. IVM. REI gives us the only crafting booster spell around right now. VS can be used without a cooldown period. Zombies can last over two hours. SV doesn't require a full target to restore vit anymore. These are not downtweaks. Let's not act like they are.

The fact that you can't immobilize someone for 20+ seconds during a PvP fight isn't a sign of the guild being doomed, because no one can immobilize, web, or stun anyone for that amount of time either.

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I could take stuff apart but meh, I pressed the shiny red button. Ultimately I don't think there's a way to judge how the 3.0 , PvP , playing field is going to be at the moment. So down tweaks can be balancing . Im not one of those "game designers are out to get you" people.

>I'm not really sure what positives we have as necromancers at this point

Nothing. Nothing whatsoever makes necromancers worth playing. You need to reroll.

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>Is it actually more powerful than WORM in 3.0? Or do you mean Dragon right now?

I haven't actually tested it, but since Serenity locks out all of our other abilities, I expect it is.

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>>I haven't actually tested it, but since Serenity locks out all of our other abilities, I expect it is.

Doesn't Serenity eat IF and temporarily drop after each successful resistance?

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