So all the talk of Sect changes lately has really got me thinking. And sadly instead of feeling excited, I feel like I am in a bit of a rut. I have off and on played a rather visible Nomad for a while and even have tied some stories of other characters back to the Arid Steppe or inspired others to do so, but lately I feel like I am swimming upstream and find myself rarely logging into him anymore.
It seems like they are growing more and more out of place, and unlike G’nar Peths who delight in being out of place I end up feeling like the guild has moved away from the Nomads and their spiritualist ways are now an extreme outlier in a world of enlightened geometry, planes of fate, and everything else. Their tie into the guild now mostly seems ceremonious in the fact that they were one of the historic groups who came together to become what the guild is. How does one retain their belief that they speak to spirits when the rest of the guild knows you are connecting to the plane of probability and see the web of fate (that we now are even learning to manipulate)?
I am kind of sending out a general plea to help me find my footing again or asking that this be considered in the potential sect review that has come up a few times. Most of the other sects lend a flavor into the guild and the guild’s spells (Tezirites with shadow magic, Celestial Compact wit moonlight manipulation, and Fortune’s Path with teleologic sorcery/web of fate) but even in the casting of Clear Vision you don’t get anything beyond “you notice things more”.
If I am forgetting things please feel free to let me know. I would love to get back to being involved in the Moon Mage guild and feeling proud to be a Nomad, but lately I have been more hopeful that a chance to change sects can arise and then I can become “enlightened” and seek out the Garden.
LUNARIMP
TENHATSU
Re: Nomad Rut
12/20/2012 02:38 PM CST
>>How does one retain their belief that they speak to spirits when the rest of the guild knows you are connecting to the plane of probability and see the web of fate (that we now are even learning to manipulate)?
I guess my first question when thinking on this is, is it necessary to retain it? In the past, we as humans believed tons of junk that we eventually discovered to be false or inaccurate. This was likely world-shattering for some people, but what did they do with this new information?
Keep in mind the only difference for the Nomads here is that the belief is they are no longer spirits, not that they didn't speak to them. In the past, the Nomands were some of the ones with advanced summoning rituals that allowed them to speak to planar life and glean information others would love to know, and information most of the current guild does not know today. Thinking Nera, Kir, and various shamans from the Arbiter story here.
Even if the Tribes do start adopting some of the obvious, they still have things from their shamanistic culture that does not change. For instance, Bones. They work. They're not an advanced study of the lay out of stars but they allow members to see into the future. Why that is? Who knows, but the Bones do continue to connect the Tribes to their shamanistic heritage even in the face of a Guild that is moving into more outright scientist-magician study.
It seems like even if your Nomad does want to be more involved in the guild there is nothing stopping him from performing old rites and making an impact, because lets face it, their history has proven it works and they've done things that Mages today are clueless on.
I'm not sure how helpful any of that is, but hopefully it gives you something to think about so you can even the waters for yourself a little bit.
I guess my first question when thinking on this is, is it necessary to retain it? In the past, we as humans believed tons of junk that we eventually discovered to be false or inaccurate. This was likely world-shattering for some people, but what did they do with this new information?
Keep in mind the only difference for the Nomads here is that the belief is they are no longer spirits, not that they didn't speak to them. In the past, the Nomands were some of the ones with advanced summoning rituals that allowed them to speak to planar life and glean information others would love to know, and information most of the current guild does not know today. Thinking Nera, Kir, and various shamans from the Arbiter story here.
Even if the Tribes do start adopting some of the obvious, they still have things from their shamanistic culture that does not change. For instance, Bones. They work. They're not an advanced study of the lay out of stars but they allow members to see into the future. Why that is? Who knows, but the Bones do continue to connect the Tribes to their shamanistic heritage even in the face of a Guild that is moving into more outright scientist-magician study.
It seems like even if your Nomad does want to be more involved in the guild there is nothing stopping him from performing old rites and making an impact, because lets face it, their history has proven it works and they've done things that Mages today are clueless on.
I'm not sure how helpful any of that is, but hopefully it gives you something to think about so you can even the waters for yourself a little bit.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Nomad Rut
12/20/2012 02:51 PM CST
>>How does one retain their belief that they speak to spirits when the rest of the guild knows you are connecting to the plane of probability and see the web of fate (that we now are even learning to manipulate)?
Moon Mages deal with spirits all the time; including a kind that bears a striking resemblance to the one who came to Kir Dor'na'torna in his life-changing ordeal. The big question isn't whether the Shamans had spirits to speak to, but how in blazes they were speaking to spirits while the rest of the sects (and the guild modeled after them) is in endless conflict with them.
The only particularly problematic Nomad belief is that they can speak to their ancestors, which is less verifiably wrong as it is in conflict with the religion of the Immortals.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Moon Mages deal with spirits all the time; including a kind that bears a striking resemblance to the one who came to Kir Dor'na'torna in his life-changing ordeal. The big question isn't whether the Shamans had spirits to speak to, but how in blazes they were speaking to spirits while the rest of the sects (and the guild modeled after them) is in endless conflict with them.
The only particularly problematic Nomad belief is that they can speak to their ancestors, which is less verifiably wrong as it is in conflict with the religion of the Immortals.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
SHADOW7988
Re: Nomad Rut
12/20/2012 07:02 PM CST
>The only particularly problematic Nomad belief is that they can speak to their ancestors, which is less verifiably wrong as it is in conflict with the religion of the Immortals.
Can this be gone over in more detail?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
Can this be gone over in more detail?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Nomad Rut
12/20/2012 11:55 PM CST
More or less, when you die your sent to the spiral, purged of wrong doings then get sent into the void where your soul is shredded.
Ancestral Spirits don't belong because theres nothing left of you after the process.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
Ancestral Spirits don't belong because theres nothing left of you after the process.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 01:55 AM CST
<<The only particularly problematic Nomad belief is that they can speak to their ancestors, which is less verifiably wrong as it is in conflict with the religion of the Immortals.>>
This is true. It would seem to mesh very well with the Prydaen idea of the wheel though, yes?
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
This is true. It would seem to mesh very well with the Prydaen idea of the wheel though, yes?
An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 07:58 AM CST
>>This is true. It would seem to mesh very well with the Prydaen idea of the wheel though, yes?
Not really, Prydaen Wheel philosophy dictates that you are reborn after you die. So while you could technically talk to your ancestors, it'd be no difference than me talking to you.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
Not really, Prydaen Wheel philosophy dictates that you are reborn after you die. So while you could technically talk to your ancestors, it'd be no difference than me talking to you.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 08:21 AM CST
All this points to two possibilities.
1) The Nomads are wrong.
2) The Nomads, like the Prydaen, somehow developed a different afterlife scheme.
#2 is unlikely, but then the Nera and the Trabe in particular had some severe oddness going on. Who knows?
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
1) The Nomads are wrong.
2) The Nomads, like the Prydaen, somehow developed a different afterlife scheme.
#2 is unlikely, but then the Nera and the Trabe in particular had some severe oddness going on. Who knows?
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
BEVERAGEK
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 08:35 AM CST
>>Who knows?
Gyren Knows.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Gyren Knows.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
BISCLAVRET
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 11:58 AM CST
>>they can speak to their ancestors, which is less verifiably wrong as it is in conflict with the religion of the Immortals.
I play a Gypsy, not a Nomad, but my thoughts on this are that while most of the guild taps into the web of fate to look forward through time and gain information on future events, the Nomadic tradition of speaking with the spirits of ones ancestors is actually them looking BACKWARD through the web of fate to gain the wisdom of those passed.
Is this possible? I dunno. But since there are so many conflicting opinions of the web of fate and plane of probability, even in game, that I feel like I'm allowed to believe it.
I play a Gypsy, not a Nomad, but my thoughts on this are that while most of the guild taps into the web of fate to look forward through time and gain information on future events, the Nomadic tradition of speaking with the spirits of ones ancestors is actually them looking BACKWARD through the web of fate to gain the wisdom of those passed.
Is this possible? I dunno. But since there are so many conflicting opinions of the web of fate and plane of probability, even in game, that I feel like I'm allowed to believe it.
MOCKERJB
Re: Nomad Rut
12/21/2012 03:37 PM CST
<<I play a Gypsy, not a Nomad, but my thoughts on this are that while most of the guild taps into the web of fate to look forward through time and gain information on future events, the Nomadic tradition of speaking with the spirits of ones ancestors is actually them looking BACKWARD through the web of fate to gain the wisdom of those passed.>>
That's a really cool perspective. To me, it seems to fit into a semi-Determinist philosophy of the Fate mechanics. If you think about Fate as a construct born of all past actions "locking" the present path and thus cycling to lock the future path, then looking forward is the same as looking backward and ancestor input is just another form of determining the future.
That's a really cool perspective. To me, it seems to fit into a semi-Determinist philosophy of the Fate mechanics. If you think about Fate as a construct born of all past actions "locking" the present path and thus cycling to lock the future path, then looking forward is the same as looking backward and ancestor input is just another form of determining the future.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Nomad Rut
12/22/2012 10:50 PM CST
I've always been under the impression that reading Fate is more of an artform; some people do it by tossing bones or whispering to spirits, others do it by seeing patterns in ripples of water, and others do it through Tokka cards. The ability to spin pattern from chaos isn't an exact science, and since it's so very chaotic, the sects are simply representations of the historical method used to do so. I'm not actually sure if Nomads speak to the spirits, but they think they do, so, it's all flavor text.
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Nomad Rut
12/23/2012 12:13 AM CST
Nomads do speak to spirits, its not the type of spirits most people think. These aren't the dead. They are ancient extraplanar beings.
As a moon mage your brain is connected to what is essentially Cthuluvile.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
RANTHIL1
Re: Nomad Rut
04/29/2013 10:01 PM CDT
>>I am kind of sending out a general plea to help me find my footing again or asking that this be considered in the potential sect review that has come up a few times. Most of the other sects lend a flavor into the guild and the guild’s spells (Tezirites with shadow magic, Celestial Compact wit moonlight manipulation, and Fortune’s Path with teleologic sorcery/web of fate) but even in the casting of Clear Vision you don’t get anything beyond “you notice things more”.
One other point to keep in mind is that while the other sects are just moonmages, the Nomads are an entire group of people, akin to Zoluren or Therengia. To Armifer's point, maybe it is that the guild portion of the Nomads are expected to talk to the ancestors and such, so they keep up the mysticism aspects of the old Nomad ways.
To the other aspect, while the moon mages and seers may get around, my overall understanding is that the Plateau is way out of the way for darned near everyone in Kermoria, except for the Dwarves (who probably don't care that much about what those tribesmen are up to anyway).
~Kraggur
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Blacksmithing Tools 3.0:
http://www.tinyurl.com/DRBSTools3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
One other point to keep in mind is that while the other sects are just moonmages, the Nomads are an entire group of people, akin to Zoluren or Therengia. To Armifer's point, maybe it is that the guild portion of the Nomads are expected to talk to the ancestors and such, so they keep up the mysticism aspects of the old Nomad ways.
To the other aspect, while the moon mages and seers may get around, my overall understanding is that the Plateau is way out of the way for darned near everyone in Kermoria, except for the Dwarves (who probably don't care that much about what those tribesmen are up to anyway).
~Kraggur
DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3
DR Blacksmithing Tools 3.0:
http://www.tinyurl.com/DRBSTools3
DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc
