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Are there plans to improve the overall usefulness of predicting? I know the code is a nightmare and other guilds love to point their fingers at the system and say its the most developed...but its really not reliable or that powerful to demand it be so quirky and take so much time to do properly.
It's very ritualistic in nature and compared to just casting even a normal ritual spell its tedious. Not too mention the fact that actually hitting the chosen skill and not cursing is a total dice roll even after circle 150. If its going to be that RNG feeling even as a transcendent moon mage it really should give larger bonuses. As is, the bonus is barely over what spells accomplish without any of the issues that predicting has.
Bonding tools takes way too long and is way too random. Even using your sect tool and DC you aren't going to be seeing a ton of improvement compared to using a random tool without DC. Its just too random. You could do everything right and still break your tool long before its close to capping on bonding.
Without RTR and other spells the system is completely gimped. The theme seems to have been, throwing spells at the problem in hopes that it fixes it rather than adjusting the code. But if that's the case you need DC to really amp up its power in helping bonding, make the spell available to novices and add a lunar focus that doesn't require the implemented feat. DC along with the feat required is too cumbersome for what its doing. For a spell made to fix a broken system it sure does cost a lot in terms of slots, skill and time.
And you have to make predictions less random somehow, so it can be relied on and not just a flavor thing you do for fun but never in a serious situation because its just more likely to screw you up than help you. There are very easy solutions. One is making it so that with a full pool you have a 100% chance to succeed without cursing. Or make it that using DC along with your sect tool allows a 100% chance of success if predicting with a full pool. There has to be something that can make the system reliable.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:23 AM CST
Isn't the prediction system the most well-rounded and useful of any guild ability in the game?
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:31 AM CST
>Isn't the prediction system the most well-rounded and useful of any guild ability in the game?
If it were everyone (rather than no one) would be asking for Predictions.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
If it were everyone (rather than no one) would be asking for Predictions.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:38 AM CST
> If it were everyone (rather than no one) would be asking for Predictions.
Being well-rounded is not the same as being in demand by others. You really only have gates/rifts, disease curing/occasional healing, pouch selling, and resurrection that falls in that bucket.
There is the occasional need for someone to get a quick buff to a certain skill, but that's usually only centered around one-time events. Like crafting a top-end weapon, or doing the resurrection quest when you haven't trained athletics.
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:43 AM CST
>>Being well-rounded is not the same as being in demand by others.
Its not well rounded. The idea is that it gives great power but takes great skill, time and luck. But in reality, the power boost isn't anything to shake a stick at compared to other guild abilities that "just work".
Well rounded is an ability that adds utility and not just flavor. Buffs should be buffs. They should work. Predictions are a perfect example of the idea being better than the reality. The reality is the system is pretty broken.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Its not well rounded. The idea is that it gives great power but takes great skill, time and luck. But in reality, the power boost isn't anything to shake a stick at compared to other guild abilities that "just work".
Well rounded is an ability that adds utility and not just flavor. Buffs should be buffs. They should work. Predictions are a perfect example of the idea being better than the reality. The reality is the system is pretty broken.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 11:08 AM CST
The main problems with Prediction are you need a fully bonded tool (the only ones with enough durability to accomplish this are behind paywalls) that takes a casual player a rl year (or 2) to bond, 1k+ astrology and enough ranks in the skills you're bonusing to get any dependable and real advantage out of the % bonus.
If you haven't trained athletics, an athletics prediction isn't going to get you across the rope bridge for resurrection any faster than just RNG attempts to cross will.
The Prediction spells suite has made Prediction something approaching useful but the system is still pretty capricious and time intensive. If I need or want a dependable skill buff I look to sorcery rather than Prediction.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
If you haven't trained athletics, an athletics prediction isn't going to get you across the rope bridge for resurrection any faster than just RNG attempts to cross will.
The Prediction spells suite has made Prediction something approaching useful but the system is still pretty capricious and time intensive. If I need or want a dependable skill buff I look to sorcery rather than Prediction.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 12:09 PM CST
>>enough ranks in the skills you're bonusing to get any dependable and real advantage out of the % bonus.
This is one of the largest drawbacks of predictions. You need 750+ ranks in a skill to make it reach 150 ranks, lots of spells give same sized buff. But even as the power of the buff grows, so does the power of a self curse. And its too random on hitting the right skill and not cursing.
>>The main problems with Prediction are you need a fully bonded tool
And DC is a ritual that takes awhile to get and use well. And even using it bonding is tremendously tedious and random instead of fun and rewarding. DC should be a lot more powerful in regards to increasing bonding.
This being said, even with a fully bonded tool there is still random self cursing waiting. There should be some method or point in skill you can self buff without chance of cursing. Either it being through having a full pool, full bonded sect tool, DC up + night sky outdoors...Just make it possible somehow eventually to feel like you have control over a coming skill check with the proper measures taken.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
This is one of the largest drawbacks of predictions. You need 750+ ranks in a skill to make it reach 150 ranks, lots of spells give same sized buff. But even as the power of the buff grows, so does the power of a self curse. And its too random on hitting the right skill and not cursing.
>>The main problems with Prediction are you need a fully bonded tool
And DC is a ritual that takes awhile to get and use well. And even using it bonding is tremendously tedious and random instead of fun and rewarding. DC should be a lot more powerful in regards to increasing bonding.
This being said, even with a fully bonded tool there is still random self cursing waiting. There should be some method or point in skill you can self buff without chance of cursing. Either it being through having a full pool, full bonded sect tool, DC up + night sky outdoors...Just make it possible somehow eventually to feel like you have control over a coming skill check with the proper measures taken.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 12:57 PM CST
> Its not well rounded. The idea is that it gives great power but takes great skill, time and luck.
Are you really complaining about a guild ability that lets you buff any skill in the game? That's the equivalent of a 50+ slot spell.
> Buffs should be buffs. They should work. Predictions are a perfect example of the idea being better than the reality. The reality is the system is pretty broken.
I think that's a bit extreme. However, I do agree that skill should make it cost less fuel to get better buffs or otherwise increase the rate at which fuel is gained. There are also bugs, but it's a long way from broken.
> Well rounded is an ability that adds utility and not just flavor.
Literally buffs any skill in the game. That's not flavor. That's utility.
> But in reality, the power boost isn't anything to shake a stick at compared to other guild abilities that "just work".
Have you actually used other guild's abilities? They don't "just work", in many cases require a lot more prep time, also require spells to make the most of them, and many are more broken than an occasional +10 from a prediction bug.
> The main problems with Prediction are you need a fully bonded tool (the only ones with enough durability to accomplish this are behind paywalls)
I agree that this is a problem. It's the equivalent to concentration boosters for thieves.
> If you haven't trained athletics, an athletics prediction isn't going to get you across the rope bridge for resurrection any faster than just RNG attempts to cross will.
It helps increase your odds. Moreso in the old world, but it's still a nice buff.
> This being said, even with a fully bonded tool there is still random self cursing waiting.
Isn't that mitigated by filling your pool and gaining more skill? You can turn curses into bonuses.
> And its too random on hitting the right skill
Doesn't align skill and Tangled Fate make that much less random?
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 01:02 PM CST
>Have you actually used other guild's abilities? They don't "just work", in many cases require a lot more prep time
What guild abilities require a lot more prep time than predictions?
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
What guild abilities require a lot more prep time than predictions?
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 01:15 PM CST
>>Are you really complaining about a guild ability that lets you buff any skill in the game? That's the equivalent of a 50+ slot spell.
It does not just buff "any" skill in the game. It AUGMENTS. It only adds to what is already there. The skill takes way too many ranks to be comparable to spells, and is not even guaranteed to land right without hitting wrong skill or cursing the skill you wanted to buff. No matter the years spent invested in a tool bonding. And no, without a teleo spell you cannot turn curses to buffs. And right now the flavor is either, be good at predicting or use sorcery...only you can't actually be good at predicting.
So...Yes I am complaining about it. And people like you who seem to cling to this notion it buffs any skill on a whim are simply over glorifying the system and not actually pertaining to its reality.
Want athletics just ask a ranger, you'll get the buff and it will work right away without him needing 750 ranks to do it or luck. Want any skill and that is the case. Prediction is the last resort method when you can't use sorcery or ask another guild to buff a skill.
Constellation jewelry on the other hand were powerful, even not stacking. But they are gone and were left with the hampered system version of prediction buffs that are quirky and need several spells to even border on useful.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
It does not just buff "any" skill in the game. It AUGMENTS. It only adds to what is already there. The skill takes way too many ranks to be comparable to spells, and is not even guaranteed to land right without hitting wrong skill or cursing the skill you wanted to buff. No matter the years spent invested in a tool bonding. And no, without a teleo spell you cannot turn curses to buffs. And right now the flavor is either, be good at predicting or use sorcery...only you can't actually be good at predicting.
So...Yes I am complaining about it. And people like you who seem to cling to this notion it buffs any skill on a whim are simply over glorifying the system and not actually pertaining to its reality.
Want athletics just ask a ranger, you'll get the buff and it will work right away without him needing 750 ranks to do it or luck. Want any skill and that is the case. Prediction is the last resort method when you can't use sorcery or ask another guild to buff a skill.
Constellation jewelry on the other hand were powerful, even not stacking. But they are gone and were left with the hampered system version of prediction buffs that are quirky and need several spells to even border on useful.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 02:45 PM CST
I wasn't a huge fan of CJ's. I didn't like that an enchantment was far superior (dependable, consistent, instant-on and accessible to everyone) to our signature prediction ability based on our guild skill. It would be like having a pendant you could rub to raise the dead that took 1 second of RT to rejuve, raise and refill vit, conc, fat and mana.
JJs rub me the wrong way some too: no stun teleports for JJ users whereas we get stunned at any skill level without BC up and fall over at range and arrive prone because we teleport using Katamba? The last is insulting.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
JJs rub me the wrong way some too: no stun teleports for JJ users whereas we get stunned at any skill level without BC up and fall over at range and arrive prone because we teleport using Katamba? The last is insulting.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
PURHEART
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 04:36 PM CST
Unnhh, you sure on that no stun comment? Couple months ago when I got JJ to make the pathway quests easier I could have sworn my char got hit with stuns.
ELSBETH
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 05:25 PM CST
Ah good, must have been misremembering. You probably don't arrive prone when using a Katamba JJ though do you?
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
BLADEDBUTTERFLY
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 05:47 PM CST
>What guild abilities require a lot more prep time than predictions?
Ranger's raccoons and wolves. Though those are also pretty horrible systems too. Forget to dismiss them before going into the bank? They are gone and you have to start over again. Lots of other scenarios like that too.
Ranger's raccoons and wolves. Though those are also pretty horrible systems too. Forget to dismiss them before going into the bank? They are gone and you have to start over again. Lots of other scenarios like that too.
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 07:30 PM CST
> What guild abilities require a lot more prep time than predictions?
Cleric Communes take a lot of time to build up.
Ranger companions take a lot of time to raise.
Thief confidence and reputation takes a lot of time to build up if you aren't babysitting it.
Bard mojo takes a lot of instrument playing to build up, and it burns out very quickly after only a few scream defiances.
I'd also say paladin soul pool and states take longer once the moon mage knows a few planets. This is doubly true if they're going through atonement.
Necromancer DO/SO takes forever to drain (inverse, but still true).
While not the same, trader caravans are also several hour investments, especially if you want to try to run commodities since you have to wait for the market shifts.
> It does not just buff "any" skill in the game. It AUGMENTS. It only adds to what is already there.
And that's what modern buffs do. All of them, except the figurines from HE.
> Want athletics just ask a ranger,
Sure, a ranger specializes in it, but a moon mage has versatility. Is your argument that moon mages should easily, reliably, and quickly be able to buff every skill with minimum effort?
> I wasn't a huge fan of CJ's.
Honestly, I was a fan. I wish we had more + skill that gave a raw number rather than %.
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 09:27 PM CST
>>Sure, a ranger specializes in it, but a moon mage has versatility. Is your argument that moon mages should easily, reliably, and quickly be able to buff every skill with minimum effort?
You continue to play the devils advocate but are actually only weakening your own argument by doing so. Those guild abilities you mention are all short of the time invested into building astrology skill, bonding your tool, filling your prediction pool and yet even with all that barrier you are left with a 50/50 chance of cursing yourself. None of those guild abilities you mention have a chance of hurting as much as they help.
You also asked a question that doesn't even need to be asked since I already stated clearly what I would like...and it was far from being minimum effort. Nobody asked for minimum effort anything. I asked for the system to become reliable, with enough time invested in your tool, skill and after fully filling a prediction pool, having DC up and perhaps even be outside at night. What about that says minimum?
I have no doubt you will try to argue again that predictions are the most developed and useful guild ability but you have no arguments to stand on.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
You continue to play the devils advocate but are actually only weakening your own argument by doing so. Those guild abilities you mention are all short of the time invested into building astrology skill, bonding your tool, filling your prediction pool and yet even with all that barrier you are left with a 50/50 chance of cursing yourself. None of those guild abilities you mention have a chance of hurting as much as they help.
You also asked a question that doesn't even need to be asked since I already stated clearly what I would like...and it was far from being minimum effort. Nobody asked for minimum effort anything. I asked for the system to become reliable, with enough time invested in your tool, skill and after fully filling a prediction pool, having DC up and perhaps even be outside at night. What about that says minimum?
I have no doubt you will try to argue again that predictions are the most developed and useful guild ability but you have no arguments to stand on.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 09:59 PM CST
> time invested into building astrology skill,
Uh huh. All guilds need skills. That's the point of the entire game.
> bonding your tool,
Moon mages don't have to bond your tool to get a prediction off, it just increases your chances of success. Skill also helps with that.
> filling your prediction pool
What level are you? Filling a pool is a LOT easier with RTR, and planets and align split help quite a bit too. It's much easier than baby sitting an altar, especially starting from 0 and working up.
> you are left with a 50/50 chance of cursing yourself.
Are you speculating here, or do you have any evidence to support it? What about following up with tangled fate to fix it, or skill to turn a curse into a buff?
> I asked for the system to become reliable, with enough time invested in your tool, skill and after fully filling a prediction pool, having DC up and perhaps even be outside at night. What about that says minimum?
You actually said, "its really not reliable or that powerful to demand it be so quirky and take so much time to do properly." I disagree on both accounts for as little as that's worth.
What circle are you? You don't have to be out at night to observe planets, and they're far faster with regards to filling a specific pool. Faster still if you can transmogrify. https://elanthipedia.play.net/Star_charts
The only problem moon mages really have is with the tools. They need to bond faster, and moon mages should have a way to repair them in the same way bards can repair instruments (perhaps giving a little bond when they do).
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:02 PM CST
Oh, and maybe a pilgrim's badge to help fill the pool. Same CD as a badge. It would function the same way. Make it a compass or celestial chart of some sort (different from the tool). You travel to a grahzir shard, monolisk, or other moon mage historical sites of power and study it then scribe on your chart/compass/whatever with a burin. You can then focus on it with a timer and fill up a random pool, modified by skill. 1750 = 100% full.
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 10:51 PM CST
>>You actually said, "its really not reliable or that powerful to demand it be so quirky and take so much time to do properly." I disagree on both accounts for as little as that's worth.
Everyone can read what I said...And its exactly the truth. Its not reliable. Its too quirky. It takes too much time to even do, and even then screws up half the time.
>>Are you speculating here, or do you have any evidence to support it? What about following up with tangled fate to fix it, or skill to turn a curse into a buff?
The only person speculating is you. What circle are you? I have a transcendent moon mage. My name is on the top 25 list for astrology ranks. I know enough about the system and its uses to accurately judge its merits and speak with authority on its value and success rates. I was even being generous with 50/50 cause its more like you have a 25 percent chance to hit the skill you are targeting and not curse.
>>You can then focus on it with a timer and fill up a random pool, modified by skill. 1750 = 100% full.
See what I mean? You can't even argue without resorting to absurd childish behavior.
Again I will submit. Can we please get a 100% chance on prediction success if we have a full pool, enough astrology ranks, dc up, outdoors at night and using a sect tool?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Everyone can read what I said...And its exactly the truth. Its not reliable. Its too quirky. It takes too much time to even do, and even then screws up half the time.
>>Are you speculating here, or do you have any evidence to support it? What about following up with tangled fate to fix it, or skill to turn a curse into a buff?
The only person speculating is you. What circle are you? I have a transcendent moon mage. My name is on the top 25 list for astrology ranks. I know enough about the system and its uses to accurately judge its merits and speak with authority on its value and success rates. I was even being generous with 50/50 cause its more like you have a 25 percent chance to hit the skill you are targeting and not curse.
>>You can then focus on it with a timer and fill up a random pool, modified by skill. 1750 = 100% full.
See what I mean? You can't even argue without resorting to absurd childish behavior.
Again I will submit. Can we please get a 100% chance on prediction success if we have a full pool, enough astrology ranks, dc up, outdoors at night and using a sect tool?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
PRIMEQ
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 11:02 PM CST
Speaking as a long-time Moon Mage player with 1k+ Astrology and a bonded tool, the prediction system totally ROCKS.
Yes, it takes a long time to grow into, and it takes a long time to fully bond a tool, but I personally found that this aspect makes it feel all the more interesting and rewarding. Now that I have the skill and the tool, I can regularly boost whatever I want, often by hundreds of ranks. I almost never curse myself any more. When the planets aren't right for IOTS, I often make up for it by giving myself massive boosts to Shield and my lowest weapon. If I don't have enough in one pool, I use ALIGN TRANSMOGRIFY to combine pools, or if necessary RTR will mostly fill me up in 10 minutes.
I know that it's risky at lower levels. Them's the breaks. I think it's worth it for such a powerful and versatile ability overall.
The main problem I see with the system right now is that the best tools have indeed been placed behind paywalls, such that it's not possible to reach maximum bond without paying. This is a shame. Some should be available for plats (albeit a lot), or at minimum the HE shop, The Future is Now, should return so that those tools can be resold outside the fest. If anyone is currently looking for a great tool, I always try to raffle off a high-level tool at my yearly Chris' Mass raffle.
- Navesi
Yes, it takes a long time to grow into, and it takes a long time to fully bond a tool, but I personally found that this aspect makes it feel all the more interesting and rewarding. Now that I have the skill and the tool, I can regularly boost whatever I want, often by hundreds of ranks. I almost never curse myself any more. When the planets aren't right for IOTS, I often make up for it by giving myself massive boosts to Shield and my lowest weapon. If I don't have enough in one pool, I use ALIGN TRANSMOGRIFY to combine pools, or if necessary RTR will mostly fill me up in 10 minutes.
I know that it's risky at lower levels. Them's the breaks. I think it's worth it for such a powerful and versatile ability overall.
The main problem I see with the system right now is that the best tools have indeed been placed behind paywalls, such that it's not possible to reach maximum bond without paying. This is a shame. Some should be available for plats (albeit a lot), or at minimum the HE shop, The Future is Now, should return so that those tools can be resold outside the fest. If anyone is currently looking for a great tool, I always try to raffle off a high-level tool at my yearly Chris' Mass raffle.
- Navesi
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/10/2018 11:18 PM CST
>>with 1k+ Astrology and a bonded tool...
>>but I personally found that this aspect makes it feel all the more interesting and rewarding.
Are you a masochist? It shouldn't take 1k+ ranks, 1 or 2 years of bonding a tool and also two ritual spells and sorcery on top to be reliable. In order to get where you are personally at, where you only "sometimes" curse, you have a whole lifetime of being a moon mage where predictions are not worth the risk.
Again i'll submit...DC should be available to novices, it shouldn't require implemented rituals and it should probably be twice as effective at increasing bonding rates. Quality divination tools need to be made available without fests. Players simply abuse the fact they are never available and sky rocket the prices on them.
And yes I still submit that with a full pool, a sect tool, DC up and being outside at nighttime should be enough to give a 100% chance of success for self predictions
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
>>but I personally found that this aspect makes it feel all the more interesting and rewarding.
Are you a masochist? It shouldn't take 1k+ ranks, 1 or 2 years of bonding a tool and also two ritual spells and sorcery on top to be reliable. In order to get where you are personally at, where you only "sometimes" curse, you have a whole lifetime of being a moon mage where predictions are not worth the risk.
Again i'll submit...DC should be available to novices, it shouldn't require implemented rituals and it should probably be twice as effective at increasing bonding rates. Quality divination tools need to be made available without fests. Players simply abuse the fact they are never available and sky rocket the prices on them.
And yes I still submit that with a full pool, a sect tool, DC up and being outside at nighttime should be enough to give a 100% chance of success for self predictions
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
PRIMEQ
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 12:40 AM CST
>>Are you a masochist? It shouldn't take 1k+ ranks, 1 or 2 years of bonding a tool and also two ritual spells and sorcery on top to be reliable.
Why not? Seriously. We can't expect to have a guild ability that gives us a reliable buff to all skills from low levels. That would be insanely powerful. Instead we have one that comes with risks at low levels but does eventually grow to be very reliable.
Also, I don't use sorcery, nor do I think the two ritual spells are necessary, though they are useful.
>>In order to get where you are personally at, where you only "sometimes" curse,
I said I almost never curse.
>>you have a whole lifetime of being a moon mage where predictions are not worth the risk.
At what point does it become worth the risk to you? I personally was enjoying trying to hit my skills, even with the risk, from a very low level. Once it got to 70-80% success rate, I was over the moon -- and I don't think it takes too long to reach this level. I've always enjoyed having a skill that continues to grow over time too. Besides, I never found the cursing situation that bad. Much of the time when you "miss" your aligned skill, you end up hitting something else with a bonus, or if you do curse, it's not always to something crucial.
>>And yes I still submit that with a full pool, a sect tool, DC up and being outside at nighttime should be enough to give a 100% chance of success for self predictions
I'd say at high ranks it's already pretty close. I don't think it would be right for it to be a sure thing, though. For such a powerful ability, there should always be some risk.
- Navesi
Why not? Seriously. We can't expect to have a guild ability that gives us a reliable buff to all skills from low levels. That would be insanely powerful. Instead we have one that comes with risks at low levels but does eventually grow to be very reliable.
Also, I don't use sorcery, nor do I think the two ritual spells are necessary, though they are useful.
>>In order to get where you are personally at, where you only "sometimes" curse,
I said I almost never curse.
>>you have a whole lifetime of being a moon mage where predictions are not worth the risk.
At what point does it become worth the risk to you? I personally was enjoying trying to hit my skills, even with the risk, from a very low level. Once it got to 70-80% success rate, I was over the moon -- and I don't think it takes too long to reach this level. I've always enjoyed having a skill that continues to grow over time too. Besides, I never found the cursing situation that bad. Much of the time when you "miss" your aligned skill, you end up hitting something else with a bonus, or if you do curse, it's not always to something crucial.
>>And yes I still submit that with a full pool, a sect tool, DC up and being outside at nighttime should be enough to give a 100% chance of success for self predictions
I'd say at high ranks it's already pretty close. I don't think it would be right for it to be a sure thing, though. For such a powerful ability, there should always be some risk.
- Navesi
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 01:20 AM CST
>>We can't expect to have a guild ability that gives us a reliable buff to all skills from low levels.
And nobody asked for it to be reliable for low levels. I asked for it to be reliable eventually. As it is, I can safely say as a circle 150+ moon mage that I can't self buff without cursing even half the time. I have a nomlas prism that I have only used full pools to predict on. It began to favor inverting almost immediately and seemingly damages itself every use.
This is why I DO think DC should be there for novices and it should be buffed up in regards to helping bond. So novices can begin to bond their tools properly.
>>I said I almost never curse.
Which is sometimes.
>>I'd say at high ranks it's already pretty close. I don't think it would be right for it to be a sure thing, though. For such a powerful ability, there should always be some risk.
This is a flawed ideology the guild is clinging too. It no longer works or applies to our guild needing to be handicapped in order to somehow compensate for our "great power". Lets face it...nothing about our magic is what it once was. We used to have the BITE that went along with our quirky chances to curse and kill ourselves. There is nothing in our guild that is so grossly over powered it needs to be gated behind chance to forehead slap fail no matter how much time preparing and skill you have.
Yes it makes sense it takes time to use well, and nobody is asking for it to be too easy right out of the box or even ever. But at some point you need to know you can use the skill without screwing yourself over. And currently that does not exist within the system.
Its just too convoluted and random currently and nothing will convince me its worth risking to NERF my TM, shield or a weapon skill by 100s of ranks before a pvp bout or a quest. You might get that shield buff, you might ruin yourself. You might get that TM buff, you might gimp your main offense. Its not worth it when it turns into 100s of ranks.
Even if it was ONE time a day we could somehow get 100% chance, with a full pool, and DC up, and using sect tool that is bonded, and night sky, and outside...I mean it should be there somehow, someway to make you feel like you aren't just tossing a dice.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
And nobody asked for it to be reliable for low levels. I asked for it to be reliable eventually. As it is, I can safely say as a circle 150+ moon mage that I can't self buff without cursing even half the time. I have a nomlas prism that I have only used full pools to predict on. It began to favor inverting almost immediately and seemingly damages itself every use.
This is why I DO think DC should be there for novices and it should be buffed up in regards to helping bond. So novices can begin to bond their tools properly.
>>I said I almost never curse.
Which is sometimes.
>>I'd say at high ranks it's already pretty close. I don't think it would be right for it to be a sure thing, though. For such a powerful ability, there should always be some risk.
This is a flawed ideology the guild is clinging too. It no longer works or applies to our guild needing to be handicapped in order to somehow compensate for our "great power". Lets face it...nothing about our magic is what it once was. We used to have the BITE that went along with our quirky chances to curse and kill ourselves. There is nothing in our guild that is so grossly over powered it needs to be gated behind chance to forehead slap fail no matter how much time preparing and skill you have.
Yes it makes sense it takes time to use well, and nobody is asking for it to be too easy right out of the box or even ever. But at some point you need to know you can use the skill without screwing yourself over. And currently that does not exist within the system.
Its just too convoluted and random currently and nothing will convince me its worth risking to NERF my TM, shield or a weapon skill by 100s of ranks before a pvp bout or a quest. You might get that shield buff, you might ruin yourself. You might get that TM buff, you might gimp your main offense. Its not worth it when it turns into 100s of ranks.
Even if it was ONE time a day we could somehow get 100% chance, with a full pool, and DC up, and using sect tool that is bonded, and night sky, and outside...I mean it should be there somehow, someway to make you feel like you aren't just tossing a dice.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 01:25 AM CST
>>There is nothing in our guild that is so grossly over powered it needs to be gated behind chance to forehead slap fail no matter how much time preparing and skill you have.
Aside from Astral Travel...I believe the risk of death should be present always in the AP.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Aside from Astral Travel...I believe the risk of death should be present always in the AP.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 09:12 AM CST
Astrology is the most intricate guild skill but at the high end it's also the most useful. Empathy and Thanatology both have practical and meaningful uses but the rest of the guild skills mostly boil down to one or two limited abilities, and most of those abilities are only occasional tools for hunting.
PURHEART
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 09:47 AM CST
I couldnt say, if I remember right I didnt use Kata for my jumps. And since I dont have any currently active JJ's I cant test it.
Yeah, I have a moonie, hes not my main so he doesnt get much action, but one thing that used to bug me was the stuns from teleporting. Course now he cant even gate between haven & theren keep. Just have to keep plugging at it to figure out how far he can gate, I am in awe of those that can gate between the islands and crossings :)
And I havent tried the predicton system since returning, between folks sayings its broken, those that say it isnt, not being able to remember how to use cards or bowls which may or may not be broken, I've just given up on a lot right now.
Yeah, I have a moonie, hes not my main so he doesnt get much action, but one thing that used to bug me was the stuns from teleporting. Course now he cant even gate between haven & theren keep. Just have to keep plugging at it to figure out how far he can gate, I am in awe of those that can gate between the islands and crossings :)
And I havent tried the predicton system since returning, between folks sayings its broken, those that say it isnt, not being able to remember how to use cards or bowls which may or may not be broken, I've just given up on a lot right now.
SHIFT3
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 09:48 AM CST
> I have a transcendent moon mage.
So that puts you at just over 100th circle? No guild caps out their guild ability at that point.
> See what I mean? You can't even argue without resorting to absurd childish behavior.
Okay, you just want to argue. I disagree that it needs any changes, but I also acknowledge everything can be improved whether it needs it or not. I then make a proposition to improve the QOL, and you attack me for it? What? I'm out. Enjoy whatever this is.
So that puts you at just over 100th circle? No guild caps out their guild ability at that point.
> See what I mean? You can't even argue without resorting to absurd childish behavior.
Okay, you just want to argue. I disagree that it needs any changes, but I also acknowledge everything can be improved whether it needs it or not. I then make a proposition to improve the QOL, and you attack me for it? What? I'm out. Enjoy whatever this is.
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 09:58 AM CST
>>So that puts you at just over 100th circle? No guild caps out their guild ability at that point.
Over circle 150
>>Enjoy whatever this is.
Its obvious you just wanted to ignore the core issue and act like some stupid luckstone trinket will fix the issue. Filling pools was never the issue. Along with 1750 ranks required for a 100% pool fill it comes off as an absurd suggestion made just to derail the actual issues.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Over circle 150
>>Enjoy whatever this is.
Its obvious you just wanted to ignore the core issue and act like some stupid luckstone trinket will fix the issue. Filling pools was never the issue. Along with 1750 ranks required for a 100% pool fill it comes off as an absurd suggestion made just to derail the actual issues.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
PURHEART
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 10:01 AM CST
For those saying it takes forever to fill up a clerics "pool" umm, maybe for high levels that totally trash their pool but for newbies & youngsters I found it fairly fast &easy to do compared to get my ranger coon was, I cant even work on my thiefs khris, my necros so/do isnt that bad but they are still low level.
I started a f2p cleric, low level pool, was able to get it up fast with bathing in the temples pool, pouring wine on the guild alter, kissing the guild alter, cleaning it & anoher alter in the crossing area near the guild. All without running to the main temple to do things to help kill the timer thats imposed on rituals. Let alone that baby doesnt even have a badge yet.
My returning clerics (yes I have more than 1, 1 low 1 middle) both started again with near empty pools, between bathing, dancing, kissing, pouring, offering incense, cleaning I was able to get them back up to the highest level possible in maybe 3 hours? Both have badges but I didnt use them or the reciting of the book near Leth. And this was done again without running to the main temple except for the bathing or using the new prayer mats from the HE fest.
Yet trying to figure out how to fill my moonies predictions with possibly broken tools is insane, even back in the early 2000s when the stuff wasnt broken (or as broken) it was insane trying to build a bond with my moonies bones, I remember back then being told it would take at least 2 months of a daily attempt to get a decent bond. As one logging in at least once a day for us casual players & spending hmm a hour maybe to work on the bond, near constant rubbing.
I may not be the most reliable judge though as I said before I dont main a moonie & since returning I am lost on this stuff, nor is he a HLC so obviously my results are different between a low/newbie, middling (50s to 100s) & HLC characters.
I started a f2p cleric, low level pool, was able to get it up fast with bathing in the temples pool, pouring wine on the guild alter, kissing the guild alter, cleaning it & anoher alter in the crossing area near the guild. All without running to the main temple to do things to help kill the timer thats imposed on rituals. Let alone that baby doesnt even have a badge yet.
My returning clerics (yes I have more than 1, 1 low 1 middle) both started again with near empty pools, between bathing, dancing, kissing, pouring, offering incense, cleaning I was able to get them back up to the highest level possible in maybe 3 hours? Both have badges but I didnt use them or the reciting of the book near Leth. And this was done again without running to the main temple except for the bathing or using the new prayer mats from the HE fest.
Yet trying to figure out how to fill my moonies predictions with possibly broken tools is insane, even back in the early 2000s when the stuff wasnt broken (or as broken) it was insane trying to build a bond with my moonies bones, I remember back then being told it would take at least 2 months of a daily attempt to get a decent bond. As one logging in at least once a day for us casual players & spending hmm a hour maybe to work on the bond, near constant rubbing.
I may not be the most reliable judge though as I said before I dont main a moonie & since returning I am lost on this stuff, nor is he a HLC so obviously my results are different between a low/newbie, middling (50s to 100s) & HLC characters.
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: Prediction system
02/11/2018 10:56 PM CST
>Yet trying to figure out how to fill my moonies predictions with possibly broken tools is insane
Devotion provides a modest boost to mana levels at high devotion (which is nice) and powers communes. The only commune that sees regular use is Tasmine's and it only works against undead. Hodierna, Eluned, and Meraud are useful in limited situations.
Compare that to reliably (like 99% certainty) being able to get a capped boost to any skill in the game. Of course this pool is going to take longer to fill than the Devotion pool.
The tool-bonding process could probably be sped up and simplified though, that does seem to take way too long.
Devotion provides a modest boost to mana levels at high devotion (which is nice) and powers communes. The only commune that sees regular use is Tasmine's and it only works against undead. Hodierna, Eluned, and Meraud are useful in limited situations.
Compare that to reliably (like 99% certainty) being able to get a capped boost to any skill in the game. Of course this pool is going to take longer to fill than the Devotion pool.
The tool-bonding process could probably be sped up and simplified though, that does seem to take way too long.
DR-HELJE
Re: Prediction system ::NUDGE::
02/11/2018 11:13 PM CST
This is going in circles; let's agree to disagree. Some people like the prediction system and others do not.
Rather than killing the thread, please move to more constructive discussions. Maybe suggest new ideas to improve the system? That's something even current system proponents can entertain. I can't even promise that a GM might even be listening, but new ideas are always useful.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
Rather than killing the thread, please move to more constructive discussions. Maybe suggest new ideas to improve the system? That's something even current system proponents can entertain. I can't even promise that a GM might even be listening, but new ideas are always useful.
Helje
DragonRealms Senior Board Moderator
AERATHOR
Re: Prediction system ::NUDGE::
02/12/2018 06:22 AM CST
>>Maybe suggest new ideas to improve the system?
With DC up, enough ranks in astrology, using a bonded tool pertaining to your sect, predicting with a full pool and outside at night = 100% chance to not curse.
DC spell should become better at aiding with bonding. More quality divination tools should be available outside of festivals.
Curses get fixed so they can exceed -10 ranks.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
With DC up, enough ranks in astrology, using a bonded tool pertaining to your sect, predicting with a full pool and outside at night = 100% chance to not curse.
DC spell should become better at aiding with bonding. More quality divination tools should be available outside of festivals.
Curses get fixed so they can exceed -10 ranks.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
COLDLIGHT
Re: Prediction system ::NUDGE::
02/12/2018 11:34 AM CST
>using a bonded tool pertaining to your sect
Until every sect has a functional tool available, this requirement wouldn't be a good idea. I'm not sure updated bowls and Tokka will ever be released. That is not a slam at Raesh at all, whom I know has his priorities set for him from above.
Has anyone seen a post from Raesh lately? I don't watch the entire board, so I could have missed a recent one.
~ Vanxa
You see Grazhir cracking open in one sharp movement.
The World Dragon emerges, roaring soundlessly.
It moves to sear Katamba to a lifeless black.
You see the night sky, filled with stars.
Until every sect has a functional tool available, this requirement wouldn't be a good idea. I'm not sure updated bowls and Tokka will ever be released. That is not a slam at Raesh at all, whom I know has his priorities set for him from above.
Has anyone seen a post from Raesh lately? I don't watch the entire board, so I could have missed a recent one.
~ Vanxa
You see Grazhir cracking open in one sharp movement.
The World Dragon emerges, roaring soundlessly.
It moves to sear Katamba to a lifeless black.
You see the night sky, filled with stars.
PRIMEQ
Re: Prediction system ::NUDGE::
02/13/2018 05:29 PM CST
>>Has anyone seen a post from Raesh lately? I don't watch the entire board, so I could have missed a recent one.
When asked in the Discord chat about Raesh, Lyneya's response was that he is "technically still on staff," suggesting he's on some kind of extended or semi-permanent leave. I don't think he's been active in months, possibly over a year now.
About the prediction system, I just want to put out there that I am happy to chat to anyone who wants to become more proficient with it and get to the success level I've experienced. I also have plenty of data that I accumulated while training that I'd be happy to go over. Feel free to reach me on Discord any time at Navesi#4950.
- Navesi
When asked in the Discord chat about Raesh, Lyneya's response was that he is "technically still on staff," suggesting he's on some kind of extended or semi-permanent leave. I don't think he's been active in months, possibly over a year now.
About the prediction system, I just want to put out there that I am happy to chat to anyone who wants to become more proficient with it and get to the success level I've experienced. I also have plenty of data that I accumulated while training that I'd be happy to go over. Feel free to reach me on Discord any time at Navesi#4950.
- Navesi
COLDLIGHT
Re: Prediction system ::NUDGE::
02/13/2018 09:11 PM CST
It was easy to suspect that, but I didn't want to. Thanks for letting me know, Navesi.
~ Vanxa
You see Grazhir cracking open in one sharp movement.
The World Dragon emerges, roaring soundlessly.
It moves to sear Katamba to a lifeless black.
You see the night sky, filled with stars.
~ Vanxa
You see Grazhir cracking open in one sharp movement.
The World Dragon emerges, roaring soundlessly.
It moves to sear Katamba to a lifeless black.
You see the night sky, filled with stars.
ELWYNN
Re: Prediction system
02/14/2018 12:17 AM CST
FWIW, I believe the odds of cursing yourself is 10% when you know what you're doing with a capped tool. I think it's buried somewhere in the forums. The predictions system is fun, but I definitely rely on sorcery. My primary grievance is simply curses don't and have not worked in ages (unless it has been very recently fixed and I am unaware).
ELWYNN
Re: Prediction system
02/14/2018 11:29 AM CST
I would guess that one of the main reasons that people are currently unhappy with predictions is that it is more likely to hurt you than to help you in pvp (unless you have a capped tool and a lot of ranks). I don't believe that other buffs have the potential to cripple you so much in pvp.
PRIMEQ
Re: Prediction system
02/14/2018 07:24 PM CST
>>FWIW, I believe the odds of cursing yourself is 10% when you know what you're doing with a capped tool.
This is not the rate I've been seeing, and I have recorded hundreds of data points. Let's just say it can get better. :)
I don't really use curses but if it's true that they only curse at -10 ranks, then yes, I would like to see them fixed.
- Navesi
This is not the rate I've been seeing, and I have recorded hundreds of data points. Let's just say it can get better. :)
I don't really use curses but if it's true that they only curse at -10 ranks, then yes, I would like to see them fixed.
- Navesi
TEQUILASUNRISE
Re: Prediction system
02/14/2018 08:00 PM CST
>I would guess that one of the main reasons that people are currently unhappy with predictions is that it is more likely to hurt you than to help you in pvp (unless you have a capped tool and a lot of ranks).
Even at medium levels of skill (say circle ~50), I'm not sure the statement "more likely to hurt than help" is accurate.
>I don't believe that other buffs have the potential to cripple you so much in pvp.
If the metric of usefulness is PvP, most guild-only skills are worthless or limited to one very limited function. Astrology being a buff that you can possibly set up before-hand puts it on its own level of usefulness along with Thanatology.
Even at medium levels of skill (say circle ~50), I'm not sure the statement "more likely to hurt than help" is accurate.
>I don't believe that other buffs have the potential to cripple you so much in pvp.
If the metric of usefulness is PvP, most guild-only skills are worthless or limited to one very limited function. Astrology being a buff that you can possibly set up before-hand puts it on its own level of usefulness along with Thanatology.
