This is great and I like this trend towards some of our spells and the way it's drawing a middle line between "you can use, with varying degrees of efficacy" vs "NOPE."
Burn is a big one, and I like how it's been handled. That's one that I'm okay with a "NOPE" given its advantages and possible upsides now. Dazzle is decent because we were essentially locked out of vs options a lot of the time.
A couple other suggestions down this trend, which you guys may already be considering.
(1) SLS. This is such an enormously huge difference maker in pvp or any real fight that I would love to have it available at all times. Barring that, I'd love to have it enjoy some type of boost like burn with or without a meta if it remains restricted.
Over my time playing a MM, I originally had to use a ranged weapon with TM to play at par offensively with many other guilds. With the changes in the past 4-5 years, and TM foci specifically, it's a much closer strategic call now whether I go full mage or weapon/mage in any given fight. I love to see the pure mage angle become more viable, and SLS is a huge part of that. Enchanting item that makes SLS usable in the day?
(2) COL. I don't notice anything from this anymore, even against cabalists that are pretty much purely elemental damage. Maybe this works some against burn? I haven't seen any use to this at all anymore since the last old barrier changes to it. It seems like a prime candidate for moon or light options like dazzle and burn though. Anything to give it more utility. Make it 6 slots and block sanyu lyba (because psy shield definitely doesn't) and I'm happy with that too.
(3) DO. Would be a neat one with katamba synthesis in some way.
Just some ideas sparked by the cool stuff you guys are doing. Thanks for it.
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
MOCKERJB1
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 05:46 AM CST
>>SLS. This is such an enormously huge difference maker in pvp or any real fight that I would love to have it available at all times.
SLS will likely remain night-only. That said, a daytime combat cyclic that does something different would be interesting.
>>Barring that, I'd love to have it enjoy some type of boost like burn with or without a meta if it remains restricted.
Not the same thing, but there's Saesordian Compass to boost SLS if you don't mind sorcery.
>>block sanyu lyba (because psy shield definitely doesn't)
Did you mean Shear? Psychic Shield does affect Sanyu Lyba.
GM Grejuva
SLS will likely remain night-only. That said, a daytime combat cyclic that does something different would be interesting.
>>Barring that, I'd love to have it enjoy some type of boost like burn with or without a meta if it remains restricted.
Not the same thing, but there's Saesordian Compass to boost SLS if you don't mind sorcery.
>>block sanyu lyba (because psy shield definitely doesn't)
Did you mean Shear? Psychic Shield does affect Sanyu Lyba.
GM Grejuva
ENOTS
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 08:04 AM CST
Could you create a daytime equivalent to Starlight Sphere and call it Solar Flare?
Great stuff coming out!
Player of...
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
Great stuff coming out!
Player of...
Sometimes the key to happiness is not assuming it is locked in the first place- Ziggy
A journey of a thousand SMILES begins with a single step- Ziggy
MOCKERJB1
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 08:10 AM CST
Thanks Grejuva. Daytime cyclic option would be awesome.
Psychic shield messages like sanyu lyba triggers it, but I’ve never actually seen PSY block the cursed ghost at any level. That might just be how it goes with SvS scaling, but being that sanyu lyba is my own personal nemesis, I am always looking for some counter. It’d be great if shear and lay ward worked against it too. Or rend. Or magic devices. Or AOE. Maybe ward break works, haven’t tried that yet but doesn’t it block all that when sanyu lyba is in an orb?
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
Psychic shield messages like sanyu lyba triggers it, but I’ve never actually seen PSY block the cursed ghost at any level. That might just be how it goes with SvS scaling, but being that sanyu lyba is my own personal nemesis, I am always looking for some counter. It’d be great if shear and lay ward worked against it too. Or rend. Or magic devices. Or AOE. Maybe ward break works, haven’t tried that yet but doesn’t it block all that when sanyu lyba is in an orb?
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 08:56 AM CST
>>Psychic shield messages like sanyu lyba triggers it, but I’ve never actually seen PSY block the cursed ghost at any level.
Psychic Shield is a SvS barrier, not an integrity barrier, which means it isn't going to outright stop anything. SvS barriers work by bolstering your defensive contest score just enough to beat the attack, provided they have sufficient potency to do so. They can also affect non-magical attacks, unlike the integrity and potency barriers.
>>It’d be great if shear and lay ward worked against it too
We generally don't let defensive spells trigger each other. The reason Psychic Shield works in this case is that it acts like a momentary stat bonus.
GM Grejuva
Psychic Shield is a SvS barrier, not an integrity barrier, which means it isn't going to outright stop anything. SvS barriers work by bolstering your defensive contest score just enough to beat the attack, provided they have sufficient potency to do so. They can also affect non-magical attacks, unlike the integrity and potency barriers.
>>It’d be great if shear and lay ward worked against it too
We generally don't let defensive spells trigger each other. The reason Psychic Shield works in this case is that it acts like a momentary stat bonus.
GM Grejuva
MOCKERJB1
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 11:28 AM CST
Thanks, Grejuva. I don't think I'm communicating my thoughts very clear, so sorry for that.
When you cast at someone with sanyu lyba up, it triggers a responsive "cast" from the cleric and that ghost "cast" attacks the original caster. Whether the ghost hits the original caster is a SvS test vs will, which psy shield ostensibly affects in the generally same way a stat boost helps (PSY does not block per se, I get that). My issues are:
(1) The vs will test against sanyu lyba seems impossible to resist in any near at-level fight. That's probably a function of SvS spells in the PvP world still, so be it, I have my own. The bigger part is: I understand you don't let defensive spells trigger each other, but sanyu lyba isn't a defensive spell, it's a triggered offensive spell. It's a locked and loaded huldah's pall that fires when a condition is met (condition being any type of magic whatsoever, including independent powered MDs like a fireball wand, that could impact the cleric; does it even fire off a pet attack?).
Given those mechanics, it seems like shear/lay ward etc should respond for the original caster. If I have shear up and a mage gets stunned casting at me, anti-stun etc triggers against shear's response. No such luck with sanyu lyba and the outcome is considerably nastier than shear's effect. It's like fighting as a mage against old barb dragon dance, I bring a crossbow, a heavy prediction curse if I can, my own damage barriers, and pray.
(2) As far as I can tell, it can't be dispelled. Even if I win the rend etc contest, nothing is actually dispelled, I just lose my magic. So there's two effects to it; it blocks an incoming cast AND it nullifies future casting.
With all that said, I'm sorry to derail this thread and if I'm totally wrong here, happy to hear it from anyone else with different experiences. I'm not a big fan of shooting down cool things other guilds have, and sanyu lyba definitely is one for clerics. This thread just sparked some ideas for me about options for this guild that might lead to implementation of a decent counter. Really like burn and dazzle stuff!
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
When you cast at someone with sanyu lyba up, it triggers a responsive "cast" from the cleric and that ghost "cast" attacks the original caster. Whether the ghost hits the original caster is a SvS test vs will, which psy shield ostensibly affects in the generally same way a stat boost helps (PSY does not block per se, I get that). My issues are:
(1) The vs will test against sanyu lyba seems impossible to resist in any near at-level fight. That's probably a function of SvS spells in the PvP world still, so be it, I have my own. The bigger part is: I understand you don't let defensive spells trigger each other, but sanyu lyba isn't a defensive spell, it's a triggered offensive spell. It's a locked and loaded huldah's pall that fires when a condition is met (condition being any type of magic whatsoever, including independent powered MDs like a fireball wand, that could impact the cleric; does it even fire off a pet attack?).
Given those mechanics, it seems like shear/lay ward etc should respond for the original caster. If I have shear up and a mage gets stunned casting at me, anti-stun etc triggers against shear's response. No such luck with sanyu lyba and the outcome is considerably nastier than shear's effect. It's like fighting as a mage against old barb dragon dance, I bring a crossbow, a heavy prediction curse if I can, my own damage barriers, and pray.
(2) As far as I can tell, it can't be dispelled. Even if I win the rend etc contest, nothing is actually dispelled, I just lose my magic. So there's two effects to it; it blocks an incoming cast AND it nullifies future casting.
With all that said, I'm sorry to derail this thread and if I'm totally wrong here, happy to hear it from anyone else with different experiences. I'm not a big fan of shooting down cool things other guilds have, and sanyu lyba definitely is one for clerics. This thread just sparked some ideas for me about options for this guild that might lead to implementation of a decent counter. Really like burn and dazzle stuff!
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Dazzle Update
02/14/2019 12:09 PM CST
>>The vs will test against sanyu lyba seems impossible to resist in any near at-level fight. That's probably a function of SvS spells in the PvP world still, so be it, I have my own.
Unless I am totally forgetting a change we did, you are correct. All SvS abilities have the same attack/resistance curve, and that curve is balanced so that in an even contest offense wins.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Unless I am totally forgetting a change we did, you are correct. All SvS abilities have the same attack/resistance curve, and that curve is balanced so that in an even contest offense wins.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
BIRDO
Re: Dazzle Update
02/15/2019 10:20 AM CST
>>This is great and I like this trend towards some of our spells and the way it's drawing a middle line between "you can use, with varying degrees of efficacy" vs "NOPE."
Just wanted to reiterate this sentiment.
To further brainstorm on the theme of empowerment vs. penalization, I've always wanted to see something similar happen with moonblade. Perhaps allow it to be cast with no moons but force it into its lowest quality form, while allowing it to keep its limited utility and style factor. This might make me actually work the spell into my combat routines, unlike the current situation where I'm like eh why bother since I can't rely on it.
Anyway thanks for the continued development and cool additions.
Just wanted to reiterate this sentiment.
To further brainstorm on the theme of empowerment vs. penalization, I've always wanted to see something similar happen with moonblade. Perhaps allow it to be cast with no moons but force it into its lowest quality form, while allowing it to keep its limited utility and style factor. This might make me actually work the spell into my combat routines, unlike the current situation where I'm like eh why bother since I can't rely on it.
Anyway thanks for the continued development and cool additions.
