I saw there was a planned meta spell for moon mages slated for 2019...This has to be for moonblade, so you can shape it into thrown weapons, so you can then explode the lodged moonsteel with dazzle right?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
AERATHOR
DR-GREJUVA
Re: 2019 plans
11/30/2018 12:18 AM CST
>>I saw there was a planned meta spell for moon mages slated for 2019...This has to be for moonblade, so you can shape it into thrown weapons, so you can then explode the lodged moonsteel with dazzle right?
Less moonsteelstar, more moonlightfire.
You gesture at a wild korograth.
Three black-core beams descend from the sky and shrink into a tiny point centered on a wild korograth.
The beams devastate the head in a massive cloud of steaming gobbets of flesh and boiling splatters of blood!
A wild korograth begins to sway back and forth unsteadily. The wild korograth lets loose a baleful bellow of pain as it collapses to the ground with a thunderous impact.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
(Not QC'd, subject to change.)
GM Grejuva
Less moonsteelstar, more moonlightfire.
You gesture at a wild korograth.
Three black-core beams descend from the sky and shrink into a tiny point centered on a wild korograth.
The beams devastate the head in a massive cloud of steaming gobbets of flesh and boiling splatters of blood!
A wild korograth begins to sway back and forth unsteadily. The wild korograth lets loose a baleful bellow of pain as it collapses to the ground with a thunderous impact.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
(Not QC'd, subject to change.)
GM Grejuva
MOCKERJB1
AERATHOR
Re: 2019 plans
11/30/2018 03:30 PM CST
>>Less moonsteelstar, more moonlightfire.
I guess that is explosive enough. Any details would be appreciated, looks really awesome!
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
I guess that is explosive enough. Any details would be appreciated, looks really awesome!
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
JINGO
SARAGOS
Re: 2019 plans
11/30/2018 08:35 PM CST
This could help Moon Mages' place significantly in the meta. Whether against flexing critters or PvP, they need to use a Primary offense. Adding a Heavy TM option would add a little extra bite to a "MB + unload" type of combat. DFA is a good spell to stack that on too, as DFA is going to be extra effective against prone opponents who have no shield or parry. It's still subject to not being usable in certain places, but I don't know that the GM's are ever going to let Moon Mages get away from their situational usefulness of spells.
Unless of course some sort of MegaSorcery involving green moonbeams becomes a reality.
- Saragos
Unless of course some sort of MegaSorcery involving green moonbeams becomes a reality.
- Saragos
DR-ARMIFER
Re: 2019 plans
11/30/2018 08:39 PM CST
>>Unless of course some sort of MegaSorcery involving green moonbeams becomes a reality.
Nope.
One thing I have considered, and I emphasize this is only in the "gee I wonder if this would work..." phase of thinking, is allowing Traders to supply Moon Mages with Starlight Aura and refigure Moon Mage spells to be compatible with it. No, Moon Mages would not get any means to generate it on their own.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
Nope.
One thing I have considered, and I emphasize this is only in the "gee I wonder if this would work..." phase of thinking, is allowing Traders to supply Moon Mages with Starlight Aura and refigure Moon Mage spells to be compatible with it. No, Moon Mages would not get any means to generate it on their own.
-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino
SARAGOS
Re: 2019 plans
12/01/2018 01:40 AM CST
> One thing I have considered, and I emphasize this is only in the "gee I wonder if this would work..." phase of thinking, is allowing Traders to supply Moon Mages with Starlight Aura and refigure Moon Mage spells to be compatible with it. No, Moon Mages would not get any means to generate it on their own.
Well, the single biggest thing you could do to boost MM's from being what I would consider a bottom tier combat guild with regard to flexing and PvP would be to give them a way to make SLS available at all times. Because without it, they're a weapons tert, magic prime guild that can't even reliably stack a cyclic and a TM spell together. That arguably puts them below all of the magic secondary guilds as far as offensive spell capabilities. I'm sure that's by design, but in practice it means that I've seen Moon Mages say things like, "I can't run the corn maze right now because it's daytime." Even if they haven't neglected mundane combat abilities, the nature of flexing means that unless they've sandbagged their magic abilities, they'll be in trouble - or at least at it for a long time.
So, I would be in favor of something like that. It would also seem to fit the current idea of giving guilds a reason to work with each other. More reliable SLS would be good, but IMO acceptable, Dazzle wouldn't really rock the boat either, considering MB is always available. I don't know if you'd go any further than that, but excluding teleportation the only real spells of consequence there would be IOTS and COL.
- Saragos
Well, the single biggest thing you could do to boost MM's from being what I would consider a bottom tier combat guild with regard to flexing and PvP would be to give them a way to make SLS available at all times. Because without it, they're a weapons tert, magic prime guild that can't even reliably stack a cyclic and a TM spell together. That arguably puts them below all of the magic secondary guilds as far as offensive spell capabilities. I'm sure that's by design, but in practice it means that I've seen Moon Mages say things like, "I can't run the corn maze right now because it's daytime." Even if they haven't neglected mundane combat abilities, the nature of flexing means that unless they've sandbagged their magic abilities, they'll be in trouble - or at least at it for a long time.
So, I would be in favor of something like that. It would also seem to fit the current idea of giving guilds a reason to work with each other. More reliable SLS would be good, but IMO acceptable, Dazzle wouldn't really rock the boat either, considering MB is always available. I don't know if you'd go any further than that, but excluding teleportation the only real spells of consequence there would be IOTS and COL.
- Saragos
SHIFT3
Re: 2019 plans
12/01/2018 08:11 AM CST
> One thing I have considered, and I emphasize this is only in the "gee I wonder if this would work..." phase of thinking, is allowing Traders to supply Moon Mages with Starlight Aura and refigure Moon Mage spells to be compatible with it. No, Moon Mages would not get any means to generate it on their own.
I think that's a fantastic inter-guild relationship, similar to slip. Maybe you could make it go both ways, where a moon mage could infuse a trader's spell with moonlight.
For traders, it could go something like this:
- Trader learns special metaspell to use moonlight like starlight. Selfishly, it acts like the harness mastery feat with starlight during the night.
- Trader puts out their starlight collection device.
- Moon Mage casts focus moonbeam on the device to fill it up.
For moon mages, it could go something like this:
- Moon Mage learns special metaspell to consolidate starlight into a moonbeam. Selfishly,
- Trader puts out their starlight collection device.
- Traders can sacrifice their own starlight aura to force-feed the device.
- While in the same room, moon mages can use their moon related spells or focus a moonbeam with the power. Duration and power depend son how much power is in the device.
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/01/2018 11:34 PM CST
Would it be possible to reconsider the current status of Mind Shout? I don't currently find a use for it since it was converted to "heavy debil", quite honestly i don't even understand how it qualifies to be heavy debil, it should always have caused nervous system damage like mental blast since they do the same thing except that MS does it to the room.
The timer added to it has made it pretty much useless for training or for actual debilitation since it takes several casts to get creatures to a state where their nervous system damage matters.
Any help with getting this spell off the "heavy debil" template would be very appreciated. Thank you.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
The timer added to it has made it pretty much useless for training or for actual debilitation since it takes several casts to get creatures to a state where their nervous system damage matters.
Any help with getting this spell off the "heavy debil" template would be very appreciated. Thank you.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
AERATHOR
Re: 2019 plans
12/03/2018 06:26 AM CST
I use mindshout in my hunting routine every time the cool down is up. It's a group CC that weakens the group engaged with you considerably. Making it easier to evade them and easier to hit them. For long hunting trips or when you are just testing your limits I find it essential.
Ideas of making it even better would probably make it too strong. The reason why most people are not using it is because of the timer, but if it wasn't on a timer and you could just spam aoe CC like that it would make it too strong. It already fries the nerves of the targets to completely paralyzed and consecutive casts stack.
I'm normally the one shouting loudest (no pun intended) about wanting changes, but I'm actually happy with Mind Shout aside from it trains horribly for being on a timer. If the learning rate were tweaked so it was a great teacher of debilitation then it would be perfect.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Ideas of making it even better would probably make it too strong. The reason why most people are not using it is because of the timer, but if it wasn't on a timer and you could just spam aoe CC like that it would make it too strong. It already fries the nerves of the targets to completely paralyzed and consecutive casts stack.
I'm normally the one shouting loudest (no pun intended) about wanting changes, but I'm actually happy with Mind Shout aside from it trains horribly for being on a timer. If the learning rate were tweaked so it was a great teacher of debilitation then it would be perfect.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/03/2018 11:09 PM CST
Why do we hold MS to a different standard than say EE? it does the same thing but better, easier, faster.. i don't think it's too much to ask for the timer to be removed.. what is heavy debil anyway? such a thing doesn't even exist anywhere, nothing else uses this template and there's no actual explanation even on epedia.
i feel like MS was an experiment with "heavy debil" to mirror heavy TM but it is a failed experiment and teaches for crap for what it does but we somehow forgot about it and never switched it back to something sane. I am asking for it to be reviewed and i don't think i'm in the minority.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
i feel like MS was an experiment with "heavy debil" to mirror heavy TM but it is a failed experiment and teaches for crap for what it does but we somehow forgot about it and never switched it back to something sane. I am asking for it to be reviewed and i don't think i'm in the minority.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
SHIFT3
Re: 2019 plans
12/03/2018 11:21 PM CST
I don't play my moon mage right now, but why not treat it like time of the red spiral. Let mind shout be a base cast (see Harm Horde). It's always usable, but if you know the "Heavy Debil" metaspell then it does something extra when the CD is up. Either stronger weights for the cast or maybe keeps pulsing for a little while after the original cast.
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 03:00 PM CST
>>I don't play my moon mage right now, but why not treat it like time of the red spiral. Let mind shout be a base cast (see Harm Horde). It's always usable, but if you know the "Heavy Debil" metaspell then it does something extra when the CD is up. Either stronger weights for the cast or maybe keeps pulsing for a little while after the original cast.
I'd be down with trying this too, right now i just don't feel like the spell has the bang to justify the CD.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
I'd be down with trying this too, right now i just don't feel like the spell has the bang to justify the CD.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
AERATHOR
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 03:53 PM CST
If EE put targets sleeping it would be way over powered. Talk about mindless crowd control. I don't want it to be cyclic personally either cause SLS is too good. Since its just an AOE version of Mental Blast its hard to imagine why it would perform an extra function over the single target version. It would have to be changed entirely so you might as well just leave it and write a new spell to add to the book.
You could always lower the cool down to say 30 seconds. Diminishing returns will prevent the full effect anyway. And make it train a lot better. Really it should train way better than any other Debilitation because of cool down.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
You could always lower the cool down to say 30 seconds. Diminishing returns will prevent the full effect anyway. And make it train a lot better. Really it should train way better than any other Debilitation because of cool down.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 04:50 PM CST
Wouldn't you still be able to use SLS and downgrade to using MB instead of MS if it was made cyclical?
hunting at level, i find MS very underwhelming, takes 4 full casts (that's what like 12 minutes) to get to full paralysis for engaged critters, by now they'd all be long dead anyway unless i am dancing with them in which case i don't need MS anyway
quite honestly what should happen is MS should go away entirely, create a metaspell which ramps difficulty of MB up when you prep to cast it on a whole room rather than a single creature, maybe do away with the sleep option when you cast on groups and leave that as a bonus to casting against a single target but i'm sure that would be deemed too powerful and so we have 2 spells instead, i'm just hoping that MS will be examined and the CD lifted.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
hunting at level, i find MS very underwhelming, takes 4 full casts (that's what like 12 minutes) to get to full paralysis for engaged critters, by now they'd all be long dead anyway unless i am dancing with them in which case i don't need MS anyway
quite honestly what should happen is MS should go away entirely, create a metaspell which ramps difficulty of MB up when you prep to cast it on a whole room rather than a single creature, maybe do away with the sleep option when you cast on groups and leave that as a bonus to casting against a single target but i'm sure that would be deemed too powerful and so we have 2 spells instead, i'm just hoping that MS will be examined and the CD lifted.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
MOCKERJB1
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 08:30 PM CST
<<hunting at level, i find MS very underwhelming, takes 4 full casts (that's what like 12 minutes) to get to full paralysis for engaged critters,>>
Curious, at what prep? My experience with MS is that at higher mana amounts, it fries everything. I like that, particularly as a moonblade invoke in pvp in combination with WD. Limited critter testing re .
I think the best middle ground would be a weaker version with no cool down with the option of a larger mean one with a cooldown. I'm pretty sure SvS spells that do damage (which this does) are pretty rare still, and this one is AOE. That's pretty vicious.
All that said, I agree debilitation training is really bad no matter what you use.
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
Curious, at what prep? My experience with MS is that at higher mana amounts, it fries everything. I like that, particularly as a moonblade invoke in pvp in combination with WD. Limited critter testing re .
I think the best middle ground would be a weaker version with no cool down with the option of a larger mean one with a cooldown. I'm pretty sure SvS spells that do damage (which this does) are pretty rare still, and this one is AOE. That's pretty vicious.
All that said, I agree debilitation training is really bad no matter what you use.
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
ELWYNN
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 09:04 PM CST
Options for mindshout
1. get rid of 'heavy debilitation' and just make it a normal spell.
2. bring back old mindshout
3. just ditch it and
3a. create an AoE calm or
3b. bring back shadow web.
1. get rid of 'heavy debilitation' and just make it a normal spell.
2. bring back old mindshout
3. just ditch it and
3a. create an AoE calm or
3b. bring back shadow web.
MOCKERJB1
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 11:11 PM CST
I loved old shadow web, I mean loved enough to hunt kartais forever just to slam escaping. But I don't think we trade in mind shout for it. Let's just keep shadow web as a future spell plan, maybe with a similar cyclic effect but vs reflex and stealth debuff or something. Just my take.
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/04/2018 11:43 PM CST
So i just tried it in young wyverns, which are technically well below me from a debil standpoint. prepped and cast MS at 66 (per discern). generally i prep it at 40 and charge a camb device for another 60 and cast it at 100, probably explains the wasted mana at this point.
difficulty controlling actions x2 - resulted in a 10 second ish stun
partial paralysis of the entire body - this one slept for maybe a hair longer than the stuns took to wear off
second round, prep and cast at 66 mana (max verified)
complete paralysis x3 - 10ish second stun
difficulty controlling action x1 - similar stun
moved to juvie wyverns for a test there
severe twitching x1 - less than 10sec stun
second round MS
previous severe twitching -> partial paralysis x1 - 10 sec stun
3 new juvies -> severe twitching - 10 sec stun
third round MS
1 severe twitching -> severe paralysis with stun
1 severe twitching -> partial paralysis with stun
1 fresh -> severe twitching with stun
new round all critters are fresh
2 at severe twitching with the stun
next round
Debil: 1098
Lunar: 1300
stats at 80+ with exception of charisma
all spells cast without camb and at 66 mana prep, all fully prepped before casting
I'd be happy to test it in other ways or provide you other data points if you'd like about stats/skills but it seems to be doing 1 level of damage per cast or at least taking 4 full casts of MS to reach highest level of nerve damage. Are you able to prep at a higher mana? i can't imagine it would go much higher but i'm not at 1750 so maybe?
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
difficulty controlling actions x2 - resulted in a 10 second ish stun
partial paralysis of the entire body - this one slept for maybe a hair longer than the stuns took to wear off
second round, prep and cast at 66 mana (max verified)
complete paralysis x3 - 10ish second stun
difficulty controlling action x1 - similar stun
moved to juvie wyverns for a test there
severe twitching x1 - less than 10sec stun
second round MS
previous severe twitching -> partial paralysis x1 - 10 sec stun
3 new juvies -> severe twitching - 10 sec stun
third round MS
1 severe twitching -> severe paralysis with stun
1 severe twitching -> partial paralysis with stun
1 fresh -> severe twitching with stun
new round all critters are fresh
2 at severe twitching with the stun
next round
Debil: 1098
Lunar: 1300
stats at 80+ with exception of charisma
all spells cast without camb and at 66 mana prep, all fully prepped before casting
I'd be happy to test it in other ways or provide you other data points if you'd like about stats/skills but it seems to be doing 1 level of damage per cast or at least taking 4 full casts of MS to reach highest level of nerve damage. Are you able to prep at a higher mana? i can't imagine it would go much higher but i'm not at 1750 so maybe?
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
AERATHOR
Re: 2019 plans
12/05/2018 06:11 AM CST
Are you using IOTS with INT/DISC with your testing on wyverns?
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
MOCKERJB1
Re: 2019 plans
12/05/2018 09:58 AM CST
Hmm, I think that my results are just the byproduct of winning the stat contest by a lot more. Same casts against juvies for me results in consistent complete paralysis for all of them, but juvies appraise as definitely less disciplined. Against a somewhat less disciplined critter, I get partial paralysis consistently on the first cast. So it seems to me that you're right there's not a lot of damage likely to go out against anything at level even at capped cast.
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
Moon Mages are totally Jedi. -Raesh
DAMIAN
Re: 2019 plans
12/05/2018 09:03 PM CST
>> Are you using IOTS with INT/DISC with your testing on wyverns?
no i was not, mainly because i have no issues with using MB on them, probably would work better with IOTS, i just generally forget about it, my main concern is training with this spell, it just trains terribly due to the CD. Good suggestion!
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
no i was not, mainly because i have no issues with using MB on them, probably would work better with IOTS, i just generally forget about it, my main concern is training with this spell, it just trains terribly due to the CD. Good suggestion!
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
AERATHOR
Re: 2019 plans
12/06/2018 02:30 PM CST
I find that its a utility thing. Its nice to be able to cast one MS and fry the nerves of the four engaged with you. And I think IOTS is pretty much essential for having success at level with MB or MS. Those two in general seem to require a ton of mental stats to work.
Shadow Web coming back would be a nice addition to our AOE debilitation options as was mentioned. I really enjoyed that spell, even with the requirement for athletics and before that when it webbed the caster and used escaping. I love the idea of bringing back Shadow Web in the version that doesn't web the caster but change the contests perhaps to make it less esoteric.
I think its better to be adding spells, or getting them back instead of re writing a spell that already is pretty good at what it does. Although I would like to see MB and MS require less mental stats to get the full success perhaps cause they seem kind of harsh.
As for 2019 plans, another thing I would like to see next year aside from the amazing looking Burn meta spell would be a dazzle meta spell that would allow it to cause eye damage and react violently to moonsteel like the dazzle of old. Then make slivers made from moonblades lodge into targets when used with TKS/TKT and perhaps shmo to allow a steelstar shape that you can lodge so you have something to explode.
This would bring back some awesome flavor to the guild that it used to have and make some amazing opportunities for casting at other moon mages who are holding moonblades or have slivers floating over head.
Also it would be really nice in duskruin or something to see some TKT stackers. It would be nice if you could cast from a stacker, ground or head so you can pick which ammo you are choosing. Ammo in the stackers could be naphtha you have to fill yourself, or silver spheres you have get re blessed after the charges wear off.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
Shadow Web coming back would be a nice addition to our AOE debilitation options as was mentioned. I really enjoyed that spell, even with the requirement for athletics and before that when it webbed the caster and used escaping. I love the idea of bringing back Shadow Web in the version that doesn't web the caster but change the contests perhaps to make it less esoteric.
I think its better to be adding spells, or getting them back instead of re writing a spell that already is pretty good at what it does. Although I would like to see MB and MS require less mental stats to get the full success perhaps cause they seem kind of harsh.
As for 2019 plans, another thing I would like to see next year aside from the amazing looking Burn meta spell would be a dazzle meta spell that would allow it to cause eye damage and react violently to moonsteel like the dazzle of old. Then make slivers made from moonblades lodge into targets when used with TKS/TKT and perhaps shmo to allow a steelstar shape that you can lodge so you have something to explode.
This would bring back some awesome flavor to the guild that it used to have and make some amazing opportunities for casting at other moon mages who are holding moonblades or have slivers floating over head.
Also it would be really nice in duskruin or something to see some TKT stackers. It would be nice if you could cast from a stacker, ground or head so you can pick which ammo you are choosing. Ammo in the stackers could be naphtha you have to fill yourself, or silver spheres you have get re blessed after the charges wear off.
"An' I'm learnin' 'ere in London what the ten-year soldier tells; If you've 'eard the East a-callin', you won't never 'eed naught else. No! you won't 'eed nothin' else"
