Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 03/16/2013 01:02 AM CDT
Enchanting is... not in good shape right now. And it's not a system we're willing to invest much time into right now since it's on the way out the door.

But we are willing to do some emergency repairs on it and get some of the key enchantments working again that currently do not work - I just don't have a good grip on what works, what doesn't, and I don't have the time for a robust testing of the system. This is where you all come in.

If people could please list their experiences with enchantments in 3.0 it'd be really appreciated. I don't need detailed information in this thread just something along the lines of "This enchantment can't be done because of X, Y and Z." "This enchantment works fine." "This enchantment sort of works, but A and B make it hard to do."

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 03/16/2013 07:32 AM CDT
Last time I checked, lunar shards (required for Astral Guides, and Beacons) didn't work:


You harness a small amount of energy, push it through the minimal resistance of a jagged red shard and watch it dissipate harmlessly. Well, that was fun.
Roundtime: 4 sec.



TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 03/16/2013 02:59 PM CDT
*Celestial beacons are buggy now, because when a beacon is raised and Focus Moonbeam is cast on the person who raised it, it creates TWO moonbeams - one at the location of the person who raised the shard and one at the location where the moon mage is standing. Spells cast on that moonbeam (Moongate, Teleport, DG, etc) all default to the incorrect beam set in the moon mage's room.

*The process of making a gweth smasher requires the Unleash spell to be cast, which doesn't exist anymore.

*It's still possible to make burins in 3.0, but there's something buggy where more skill/making them too well causes the burin to turn out with only one use. I can get more uses out of a burin in 3.0 when I sabotage my efforts to make it well.

Thanks!
Aluriaz
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 03/16/2013 05:31 PM CDT
The actual Astral Guide creation process works 100%. This includes binding/invoking sigils, etc.

However the needed component "Celestial beacon" is broken. Also keep in mind in that shadows AND dazzle can be used to fuel the shard. (I'm just using dazzle in the logs.)

This is what happens when you try to create a beacon/shard.

>charge shar 6

>You harness a small amount of energy, push it through the minimal resistance of a jagged red shard and watch it dissipate harmlessly. Well, that was fun.

> prep daz
> cast shard

>You gesture at a jagged red shard.
>A shaft of ruby light beams down from above to strike a jagged red shard, illuminating it for all to see.



This is what it SHOULD do:

> [beacon]: charge shard 15

>
You harness some energy and attempt to channel it into a jagged red shard.
Roundtime: 3 seconds.
R> [beacon]: prep dazzle 15
You raise your arms skyward, chanting the words of the Dazzle spell.
>
>
> [beacon]: cast shard

You gesture at a jagged red shard.
The abundant moonlight lends strength to your spell.
Bright flashes of light circle and merge with the red shard.
> [beacon]: charge shard 15
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 03/27/2013 08:45 PM CDT
No more beacons? I was just trying to make one, and came here for help...
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 04/20/2013 08:17 PM CDT
I believe gweth smashers cannot be made without the unleash spell. If this is the case, is it possible to temporarily make dazzle work?
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/20/2013 04:05 PM CDT
Mirkik Sokis works fine.

Garden's Vision I am pretty sure I have one made post 3.0.

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/20/2013 05:55 PM CDT
CJ's Raesh, CJ's!!!

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 08:24 AM CDT
I don't think we're getting CJ's or JJ back since they're able to turn profits on them now, just my two kronars. I'll await to be proven wrong :/
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 08:41 AM CDT
Microtransactions have nothing to do with the fate of CJs. The enchantment system as a whole is in a weird limbo where 3.0 broke it fairly badly, but the extensive work needed to repair it is largely impractical since the system is being phased out in favor of the new Enchantment system. That's the main reason CJs are disabled, but beyond that I've never hidden my personal dislike of them and what they do to game balance. I am not opposed to skill boosting items and I'm not opposed to enchanting them - but I believe the cost vs reward balance for CJs was drastically out of line.

JJs are an entirely different story - they were always a platinum perk and would not have been approved as a general player made enchantment, moon mage or otherwise.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 09:46 AM CDT


I think the other player meant astral guides when he said JJ.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 10:00 AM CDT
The Astral Guide problem is that they broke with 3.0 and there's basically only 1.5 people on staff with enough knowledge of the Moon Mage enchantment system and 3.0 to have a hope of fixing it without a massive amount of research - and neither of us has had time to get that that specific item on the to do list. (For the record I'm the point five).

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 10:04 AM CDT
Nerf em down to a 50 rank cap bonus or something then Raesh. I know a few people(myself included) that could put some of em to use. Whats the harm? Oh I get get 50 ranks in my stealth, I MIGHT be able to hide on that guy with 200 less perception now. Oh maybe I wanna use tactics in my tangle with this chick with a solid 50 less tactics, maybe it takes 100 lets try this CJ(prolly still not enough in its current state but you see my point).

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 06:26 PM CDT
It's not necessarily just the size of the boost, it's also every other aspect of the old incarnation: stackable; full power with low skill (burned uses meh); no cooldown; infinite stock, and so on. I'd like to see them tweak some of these variables and add a touch of spontaneous combustion danger then return them in some form. No easy task there though.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/21/2013 10:47 PM CDT
I actually had an idea this morning for a solution that's a variant of an idea I've had for a long time (which was basically tying CJs into prediction). We'll see what it looks like once I've fully fleshed it out and see if it survives proposals.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/22/2013 02:25 PM CDT
You mean align em to a skill and when it fires off its charge it passes through prediction mechanics and has a chance to curse or bonus? Not a bad idea there at all, allow the mages skill in making it to determine power of bonus/curse and users arcana to determine success or curse chances.

>a touch of spontaneous combustion danger

I dunno if I support that, maybe if they could be recharged and a non-lunar mage was attempting the recharge I could see it. Otherwise gweths are lunar enchantments as well and they got no shot to combust when used. If you went with a model like that you'd have to make it consistant with all lunar enchants IMO.

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/22/2013 09:05 PM CDT
>>I dunno if I support that, maybe if they could be recharged and a non-lunar mage was attempting the recharge I could see it. Otherwise gweths are lunar enchantments as well and they got no shot to combust when used. If you went with a model like that you'd have to make it consistant with all lunar enchants IMO.

That's not true at all. Some spells are dangerous, some are not. Some enchantments could be, some might not.

Which is not to say I have any plans for having them make you burst into flames - we tend to include dangers like that for flavor reasons rather than game balance reasons since it does nothing really to address the other problems with the system discussed above. Either there's so small a risk of pain/death no one cares or it's large enough everyone fears the system. Neither of those is what we'd want.

I can also assure you that I see no circumstances under which I would approve of recharging CJs.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/22/2013 09:39 PM CDT

I can CJ returning as a prediction in a cookie kinda thing.

Aligned to a skill, absorbs all of your pool for that skill, better the enchantment the more of the pool it will hold. It runs all the risks of a normal prediction and its randomness.

Its basically just a portable prediction, with all its ups and downs. As a bonus for moon mages, it can possibly return a portion of the pool back to you rather than activating the prediction but it will be harder for non-moon mages to control.

Kind of like an enchantment based on the concepts of Tezirah's Veil, or vise versa.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga

The Light is Crimson through the Darkness.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/23/2013 12:26 AM CDT
Yeah, that's much closer to what I'd like to see CJs as. The tighter they are tied to the prediction system the more built in controls we already have which removes many headaches.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 05/23/2013 05:43 PM CDT
>>It's not necessarily just the size of the boost, it's also every other aspect of the old incarnation: stackable; full power with low skill (burned uses meh); no cooldown; infinite stock, and so on. I'd like to see them tweak some of these variables and add a touch of spontaneous combustion danger then return them in some form. No easy task there though. <<

I guess I just don't see where this is a problem. I miss having something to do with all of this astrology skill that gave me a guaranteed good result, even if I couldn't cap them, I was guaranteed I'd get something good if I did it right. I am having a little trouble reconciling why Moon Mages have to be less than we were.

Right now, outside of SLS (the only combat cyclic we have and the only spell we have which approaches the level of oomph we enjoyed before)., pretty much every other spell I've used does not result in nearly enough damage, especially when you add in the consideration of the greatly increased skill and stats. AKA poor performance.

I also play a bard -- My bard with 325 target, prepped at 12, kills celps with her cyclics as better than I do with my 800 targetted, fully prepped with 40-80 mana. Her primary and secondary weapons kill them faster than I do with magic -- both of them are 150-250 ranks less than my target.

I've been sparring this moon mage since she was little. Yes burn was our go to guarantee when we sparred and I quit using it all the time in 2.0 spars, just because it was a little over the top especially when we had other good spells like crystal spike (when can we have this back and can it be cyclic?). Well I got hit by a cleric AE recently. This cleric has 100-200 less target than my defeneses, less other skills and stats -- Result -- HUGE stuns and damage that seemed to completely go around my characters defenses and smashing the hell out of her -- Reminiscent of what my character performed like 50 circles ago with her burn -- but My DFA spell "glanced" didn't do damage. Pretty much everything I threw at him didn't seem to land enough of a hurt to prevent him from defeating my character -- something that shouldn't have happened if you compare the numbers.

I sparred a Paladin who at the time was 40+ circles less, and anywhere from 150-400 ranks/skill in deficit in skills compared to my character's skills overall. I had sls up to begin with, but it was doing too much damage, and I wanted to be fair. The result was - it took forever, more than 30 (50-100 mana used) high powered casts, all fully prepped and targetted before I finally trashed him enough to defeat him.

Right now, this character performs worse than she did at 80th circle, with double the skills and stats. It's extremely frustrating and disheartening to have worked hard to develop this character and not have the kind of results that she should have for the level of skill she has.

And now you're saying you're considering taking CJ's and making them based upon a prediction system that is not performing to a level that it's a useful tool (aka a guaranteed high level (90%+ chance) of accuracy and controlled result -- in simpler terms if I make a prediction to boost skinning, I get a 90% chance to not only get a positive result, but I actually get skinning) to skilled mages. I don't know anyone that wants to perform a task they've done hundreds of times before successfully, and now fail far more than half the time.. not only fail (curse), but you don't even get the skill you were aiming for.

On top of all of this, then I read "well it's performing the way I expect it to" -- Seriously? You want us to have a high level of failure? Or at what level will we see our success rate return to what we had before, because what we have not is not acceptable, and certainly makes one of our core "skills" unusable except to mindlessly gain skills when we don't really care about them (aka working astrology to gain skill, not to actually use the result for a benefit).
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 06/10/2013 02:51 AM CDT
>If people could please list their experiences with enchantments in 3.0 it'd be really appreciated.

Unbend Sigils are makable but will not work on moonbeams or mirrors (the sparkling ones that should work on everything were tested).



"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 08/19/2013 10:44 AM CDT
OK so for the record here - the ability to create lunar shards is CURRENTLY NON-FUNCTIONAL, correct?

- Kart / Rhoat
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 08/20/2013 03:23 PM CDT


last time I tried, still broken.
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Re: Enchanting and 3.0 - Help Needed 08/23/2013 02:46 PM CDT
Are the smashers makable again yet? or is this still an Unleash type issue?

"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
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