Previous
>it is a completely unsupported leap to then say that Empaths should be expected to render their services for free or "charity" as people are putting it.
You're right, that would be a leap. I didn't say that. The reality is somewhere in between.
JMF90
THREEPHI
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 12:13 AM CDT
Interesting points, Sephos, but I think healing is still the best way to learn at the lowest circles. And IMO the problem is more mule empaths than bored primary empath players.
Also you're forgetting one of the most useful, and underrated, abilities--perc health. You need to be high level before you really see its benefit. It's almost unfair in the hunting grounds as a high-circle Empath now... I use perc health to locate all critters in a four room radius, including which rooms already have hunters in them, and then go mop up the unclaimed beasts with my avenger. At the very highest levels you get to see an amazing seven or eight rooms away, and that's an incredible advantage on the field of battle, either for yourself or your allies.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Also you're forgetting one of the most useful, and underrated, abilities--perc health. You need to be high level before you really see its benefit. It's almost unfair in the hunting grounds as a high-circle Empath now... I use perc health to locate all critters in a four room radius, including which rooms already have hunters in them, and then go mop up the unclaimed beasts with my avenger. At the very highest levels you get to see an amazing seven or eight rooms away, and that's an incredible advantage on the field of battle, either for yourself or your allies.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
THREEPHI
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 12:15 AM CDT
>You're right, that would be a leap. I didn't say that. The reality is somewhere in between.
I guess I misunderstood but your post seemed to be arguing that healing was not charity for the reasons you cited.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
I guess I misunderstood but your post seemed to be arguing that healing was not charity for the reasons you cited.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
JMF90
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 12:33 AM CDT
>I guess I misunderstood but your post seemed to be arguing that healing was not charity for the reasons you cited.
Not purely charity, no.
Not purely charity, no.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 01:04 AM CDT
>>Solution: Make empathy or other lore-prime activities very desirable.
I look forward to both the shock and lore rewrites. I'm going to turn Szrael into a weaponsmith who only forges Halberds and pikestaffs.
I look forward to both the shock and lore rewrites. I'm going to turn Szrael into a weaponsmith who only forges Halberds and pikestaffs.
CLEMENCY
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 10:28 AM CDT
>>I look forward to both the shock and lore rewrites.
2029.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
2029.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
ZIMPLYBEST
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 10:47 AM CDT
<<2029.>>
Woohoo! Just in time for me to file for Social Security!
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
Woohoo! Just in time for me to file for Social Security!
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
MCNITTD1
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 01:27 PM CDT
I don't think the economic environment surrounding tipping empaths is ever going to change. I recommend taking what you want. It's infrequent that I don't find some decent stuff in people's pockets who had just told me they don't have anything to tip with. I almost look forward to the people that stiff me.
~Purehand
You feel that for the moment you've learned all you can about harming shopkeepers.
~Purehand
You feel that for the moment you've learned all you can about harming shopkeepers.
SILVERDROW
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 02:14 PM CDT
>I don't think the economic environment surrounding tipping empaths is ever going to change. I recommend taking what you want. It's infrequent that I don't find some decent stuff in people's pockets who had just told me they don't have anything to tip with. I almost look forward to the people that stiff me.
>~Purehand
I can just imagine this. and I love it.
x says, "I'm sorry, I'm poor and have nothing to tip you even though you just about died taking my wounds as I was missing most of my body parts because I hunt super huge scary monster."
no worries! not a problem.
steal x
You carefully reach into x's pockets and pull out a large pink sapphire.
mmm, woulda been smarter just to tip the empath (that'd be so funny though).
>~Purehand
I can just imagine this. and I love it.
x says, "I'm sorry, I'm poor and have nothing to tip you even though you just about died taking my wounds as I was missing most of my body parts because I hunt super huge scary monster."
no worries! not a problem.
steal x
You carefully reach into x's pockets and pull out a large pink sapphire.
mmm, woulda been smarter just to tip the empath (that'd be so funny though).
CLEMENCY
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
06/27/2008 09:02 PM CDT
>I recommend taking what you want.
Nice.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
Nice.
-Thief Clemency L'Envers
DRAKEWARLORD
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/01/2008 09:32 AM CDT
I rarely post here but here goes.
When I'm sitting there with no arms and can't take a tip till I heal up enough to be able to use my arms again, I really hate when someone makes a huge show of waving a bogus tip.
If you have nothing to tip but need healing do me the favor of saying so up front when you ask for help. Let me decide if I feel charitable.
I do reserve the right to decide when I want to heal at no charge and for what reasons I will heal for no charge. It's none of your business.
As a general rule, I expect you to pay me what you typically can make in the time it's going to take me to heal up what ever wounds you dumped on me.
Alternately you could look at how long the down time is for some of the shifts then at what the going rate is for that shift on some of the empath sites that list the charges for different shifts.
I however reserve the right to heal when and if I chose, who I chose, and how I chose at the rate I chose to take the wound. I also reserve the right to change my mind about healing you at any point in time.
This goes both ways, deciding to heal you or deciding not to. No one is going to tell me not to heal someone or to heal someone. It's my decision.
The idiots and rp nazi's that try to dictate that choice to me in the name of rp obviously need to learn a thing or two about role playing.
The player of too many, all of which are fictions in a fantasy game and none of which are me.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Eleanor Roosevelt
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." --attributed to Albert Einstein
When I'm sitting there with no arms and can't take a tip till I heal up enough to be able to use my arms again, I really hate when someone makes a huge show of waving a bogus tip.
If you have nothing to tip but need healing do me the favor of saying so up front when you ask for help. Let me decide if I feel charitable.
I do reserve the right to decide when I want to heal at no charge and for what reasons I will heal for no charge. It's none of your business.
As a general rule, I expect you to pay me what you typically can make in the time it's going to take me to heal up what ever wounds you dumped on me.
Alternately you could look at how long the down time is for some of the shifts then at what the going rate is for that shift on some of the empath sites that list the charges for different shifts.
I however reserve the right to heal when and if I chose, who I chose, and how I chose at the rate I chose to take the wound. I also reserve the right to change my mind about healing you at any point in time.
This goes both ways, deciding to heal you or deciding not to. No one is going to tell me not to heal someone or to heal someone. It's my decision.
The idiots and rp nazi's that try to dictate that choice to me in the name of rp obviously need to learn a thing or two about role playing.
The player of too many, all of which are fictions in a fantasy game and none of which are me.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Eleanor Roosevelt
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." --attributed to Albert Einstein
JULIAN
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/01/2008 09:49 AM CDT
Siobhannic,
I definitely appreciate where you are coming from. However, I think charging for healing cheapens the empath. Fee-for-service is the lowest form of exchange. I give you money, you perform, we recognize no other social obligations.
It's a distasteful necessity IRL. I don't know that I'd rush to do it in DR.
- Mazrian
- Mazrian
I definitely appreciate where you are coming from. However, I think charging for healing cheapens the empath. Fee-for-service is the lowest form of exchange. I give you money, you perform, we recognize no other social obligations.
It's a distasteful necessity IRL. I don't know that I'd rush to do it in DR.
- Mazrian
- Mazrian
ALDEN
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/01/2008 12:14 PM CDT
"I definitely appreciate where you are coming from. However, I think charging for healing cheapens the empath. Fee-for-service is the lowest form of exchange. I give you money, you perform, we recognize no other social obligations."
Mazrian, while I think I understand where you are coming from, I would disagree. People value less that which is given for free. While I am all for a social quid for quo amongst those who know and respect one another, there is a disconnect where services of an empath are assumed to be free and no compensation should be assumed, but we willingly pay top plat for forged weapons and armor, and fork over coins for cj's and inviso rings. Hence we value those items, but don't value the life saving services of the free empath. (and I say we in the general atmosphere of DR, not necesarily your or me).
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
Mazrian, while I think I understand where you are coming from, I would disagree. People value less that which is given for free. While I am all for a social quid for quo amongst those who know and respect one another, there is a disconnect where services of an empath are assumed to be free and no compensation should be assumed, but we willingly pay top plat for forged weapons and armor, and fork over coins for cj's and inviso rings. Hence we value those items, but don't value the life saving services of the free empath. (and I say we in the general atmosphere of DR, not necesarily your or me).
"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/01/2008 01:16 PM CDT
Paying someone for healing doesn't cheapen it in my eyes any more than someone paying for my moonie's CJs or gweths cheapens my accomplishments in that respect.
The idea of Empaths offering some grand service to the community that is recognized and appreciated breaks down once you actually go play an Empath as a primary character for awhile.
Empaths can go charge what they want or not charge at all if that makes them happy. I would call it the height of rudeness and disrespect to go set up shop where an Empath is trying to make money and try to ruin them by offering people free healing though, not to mention being unreasonably holier-than-thou. Then again, I suppose I expect that kind of thing from certain kinds of people.
Rev. Reene
"And if you should die explainin' how the things that they complain about
Are things they could be changin', who do you think's gonna care?"
The idea of Empaths offering some grand service to the community that is recognized and appreciated breaks down once you actually go play an Empath as a primary character for awhile.
Empaths can go charge what they want or not charge at all if that makes them happy. I would call it the height of rudeness and disrespect to go set up shop where an Empath is trying to make money and try to ruin them by offering people free healing though, not to mention being unreasonably holier-than-thou. Then again, I suppose I expect that kind of thing from certain kinds of people.
Rev. Reene
"And if you should die explainin' how the things that they complain about
Are things they could be changin', who do you think's gonna care?"
AZTEC2012
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/01/2008 04:25 PM CDT
>>The idea of Empaths offering some grand service to the community that is recognized and appreciated breaks down once you actually go play an Empath as a primary character for awhile.
=]
A fellow gamer
=]
A fellow gamer
THREEPHI
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/03/2008 03:47 PM CDT
>I give you money, you perform, we recognize no other social obligations.
Wow, that's a completely illogical leap... C does not necessarily follow A and B in that statement at all.
"No other social obligations" is a very powerful statement and a moment's reflection will show that it's a huge exaggeration. Maybe the guy that comes to read the meter or collect your trash isn't going to become your best friend, but why should he have to be? Then again, if you open your eyes and view and respect him as an actual complete human being just like you are, he might. In any event, you certainly aren't going to "recognize no other social obligations" towards him and abandon all civilized behavior. And if you happen to be the guy reading the meter or collecting the trash, and the person whose home you are visiting treats you disrespectfully, that is an indication of their weakness and not yours.
I'm not in any way implying that any of this applies to anyone who has contributed to this thread. But it's based on my observations of various personalities I have encountered in my working life, and the correlation between life satisfaction and how they treat people around them, whether in a position above or below. If you hate your job (or yourself), it's a lot harder to have normal human relations in the work environment.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Wow, that's a completely illogical leap... C does not necessarily follow A and B in that statement at all.
"No other social obligations" is a very powerful statement and a moment's reflection will show that it's a huge exaggeration. Maybe the guy that comes to read the meter or collect your trash isn't going to become your best friend, but why should he have to be? Then again, if you open your eyes and view and respect him as an actual complete human being just like you are, he might. In any event, you certainly aren't going to "recognize no other social obligations" towards him and abandon all civilized behavior. And if you happen to be the guy reading the meter or collecting the trash, and the person whose home you are visiting treats you disrespectfully, that is an indication of their weakness and not yours.
I'm not in any way implying that any of this applies to anyone who has contributed to this thread. But it's based on my observations of various personalities I have encountered in my working life, and the correlation between life satisfaction and how they treat people around them, whether in a position above or below. If you hate your job (or yourself), it's a lot harder to have normal human relations in the work environment.
~ Player of Farman et al.
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Main_Page
SCHOOFU
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/17/2008 12:03 AM CDT
As a waitress, and an Empath I can tell you, people who give crappy tips suck. And we do keep track of it. If a regular is well known as a crappy tipper (have an man who always leave 50 cents on a $18 check. Fifty cents! Can't even buy a soda for that anymore) there's a little meeting of servers in the kitchen argueing over who's turn it is to serve the guy, I promise.
Tables, for a waitress are money. While the fifty cent tipper is there enjoying his third cup of coffee I could have served two couples who would have left a combined $10 in tips. The same can be true in a busy healing situation. If I heal someone who's beat up enough that I can't heal the next person I have to sit on their diopside and watch my turn to take a patient pass a half dozen times while I heal myself.
Empaths don't need to heal to train anymore. I heal because a) It's fun, it gives me a chance to RP and b) to make money. I don't mind young ones who can't tip, and I even don't mind people who apologize and say they have nothing to give but a hug... once in a while. But frell, if I just healed half of your missing skull and you give two silver while you've got two full gem pouches on you you can bet your name is going on that handy little portion of the Crutch where you can save notes about your patient.
From an RP standpoint: I just caused myself great, needless pain to make your life easier. If you stiff me, or tip me poorly when you obvious have the ability to do otherwise I should have the right to claw your eyes out, if only I had the ability.
From a reality standpoint: Doctors sure as hell don't work for free.
I don't have a log, but my entry to the blotter is a man who had two massive bleeders, sat and sorted two gem pouches of nice gems in front of me and then gave me a goblin box he'd "gotten while backtraining HC". Inside the box? 2 copper kron.
Tables, for a waitress are money. While the fifty cent tipper is there enjoying his third cup of coffee I could have served two couples who would have left a combined $10 in tips. The same can be true in a busy healing situation. If I heal someone who's beat up enough that I can't heal the next person I have to sit on their diopside and watch my turn to take a patient pass a half dozen times while I heal myself.
Empaths don't need to heal to train anymore. I heal because a) It's fun, it gives me a chance to RP and b) to make money. I don't mind young ones who can't tip, and I even don't mind people who apologize and say they have nothing to give but a hug... once in a while. But frell, if I just healed half of your missing skull and you give two silver while you've got two full gem pouches on you you can bet your name is going on that handy little portion of the Crutch where you can save notes about your patient.
From an RP standpoint: I just caused myself great, needless pain to make your life easier. If you stiff me, or tip me poorly when you obvious have the ability to do otherwise I should have the right to claw your eyes out, if only I had the ability.
From a reality standpoint: Doctors sure as hell don't work for free.
I don't have a log, but my entry to the blotter is a man who had two massive bleeders, sat and sorted two gem pouches of nice gems in front of me and then gave me a goblin box he'd "gotten while backtraining HC". Inside the box? 2 copper kron.
WANTNOMEAT
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/17/2008 08:30 AM CDT
I can totally see your point of view in bad tipping. But also just remember that some people just don't know the going tip rate for a missing arm or deformed chest. Some people tip way more then they should and some way too little. They sit and watch other people tip and do the same. That's how they learn. I'm not saying your not intitled to fitting tips, but I'm just saying that its all relative. Patient number one may not realize that his tip is bad and patient number two may not realize his tip was too much for the healing done. If you want a certain amount you may want to mention it beforehand. And if they can't afford it, then they look elsewhere.
I don't take tips but I don't like to heal someone and then have them just stand up and leave. That's my annoyance. I really do appreciate offers even though I generally turn them down. And those that offer good tips (opinions differ on a good tip) are the first ones I heal next time.
But I do see your point in the person you know perfectly well is floating on money and gives you a few gems for healing his caved in skull and missing limbs. It is rude in those circumstances. We just shouldn't expect ALL people to know all the rules of healing. They learn from eachother, hopefully from a good tipper.
I don't take tips but I don't like to heal someone and then have them just stand up and leave. That's my annoyance. I really do appreciate offers even though I generally turn them down. And those that offer good tips (opinions differ on a good tip) are the first ones I heal next time.
But I do see your point in the person you know perfectly well is floating on money and gives you a few gems for healing his caved in skull and missing limbs. It is rude in those circumstances. We just shouldn't expect ALL people to know all the rules of healing. They learn from eachother, hopefully from a good tipper.
LITTLEPAGED2
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/17/2008 12:36 PM CDT
I always think 2 silver is generous, although being circle 10, i can't usually make it to the empath guild with a missing skull.
But OOC: I didn't know i was supposed to tip bartenders until i was schooled in college. Opening ANYTHING costs AT LEAST a dollar, did you know that? But now i have the same bartender, and usually don't exceed 20 percent unless my tab is less than $100.
But OOC: I didn't know i was supposed to tip bartenders until i was schooled in college. Opening ANYTHING costs AT LEAST a dollar, did you know that? But now i have the same bartender, and usually don't exceed 20 percent unless my tab is less than $100.
SEVERA
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
07/22/2008 11:59 PM CDT
With bartenders, it's $1/beer, 1-2 for a mixed drink, or it's 20% of the total tab -- whichever is higher.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
08/09/2008 07:30 PM CDT
The whole tipping thing has always bothered me, mostly because some people act like tipping an empath is such a huge inconvinience to them and favor to the healer.
My thoughts on this are:
On average my character can go from Ratha to Haven and back on the Kree five times or so without "needing" a heal... meaning no bleeders, and often no wounds at all. Usually hunting Pirates the whole time. Each trip earns anywhere from 10 to 13 plat lirums in gems and coin, WITHOUT counting any boxes (I just leave those for whoever wants them). S0 at just over 30th circle without any special effort I'm earning an average of 50 to 65 plat between heals.
Not all of that should go to an empath, but I feel kinda guilty if they don't at least take five small green zircons. That's what... two or three gold? How's it not fair for them to expect that? Enough empaths and clerics refuse tips that giving a decent tip to the ones who want the coin is in no way unfair.
Timewise, it takes a lot more time to earn those plat than it does to heal. I think it's like 15 hours for 5 round trips on the Kree. For this reason, I'm not going to always give a 10% tip or whatever. But from an RP perspective, they're literally taking all your injuries onto themselves since they're better able to deal with wounds thanks to their spells. Expecting a few gems or coins in return isn't exactly rude.
Some people can't pay... I've been in the position where I really DON'T have gems or coins on me, but in these cases I always go grab a plat from the bank and give that as a tip. But as a novice on my very first character I quickly learned to try to save a handful of gems for empaths and honestly it's not hard to do. 30 copper is not a tip. Sell two branches to Mags and you probably have at least that much. Kill a goblin or two and you'll have twice that.
If the Empath will accept a tip, tip. If he or she declines, save it for the next empath. Come to think of it I think I'll make it my new policy to pass on tips that got declined to the next empath to heal me in addition to the normal tip... should be fun, especially if I find a baby empath after getting healed for free a few times.
Being a War Mage is great. You get to rain all sorts of desctruction on people. Plus, you can blame your gas on Zephyr. Just wave your fingers and let it out.
-XXXX, explaining to my new character why he should join the Warrior Mage Guild.
My thoughts on this are:
On average my character can go from Ratha to Haven and back on the Kree five times or so without "needing" a heal... meaning no bleeders, and often no wounds at all. Usually hunting Pirates the whole time. Each trip earns anywhere from 10 to 13 plat lirums in gems and coin, WITHOUT counting any boxes (I just leave those for whoever wants them). S0 at just over 30th circle without any special effort I'm earning an average of 50 to 65 plat between heals.
Not all of that should go to an empath, but I feel kinda guilty if they don't at least take five small green zircons. That's what... two or three gold? How's it not fair for them to expect that? Enough empaths and clerics refuse tips that giving a decent tip to the ones who want the coin is in no way unfair.
Timewise, it takes a lot more time to earn those plat than it does to heal. I think it's like 15 hours for 5 round trips on the Kree. For this reason, I'm not going to always give a 10% tip or whatever. But from an RP perspective, they're literally taking all your injuries onto themselves since they're better able to deal with wounds thanks to their spells. Expecting a few gems or coins in return isn't exactly rude.
Some people can't pay... I've been in the position where I really DON'T have gems or coins on me, but in these cases I always go grab a plat from the bank and give that as a tip. But as a novice on my very first character I quickly learned to try to save a handful of gems for empaths and honestly it's not hard to do. 30 copper is not a tip. Sell two branches to Mags and you probably have at least that much. Kill a goblin or two and you'll have twice that.
If the Empath will accept a tip, tip. If he or she declines, save it for the next empath. Come to think of it I think I'll make it my new policy to pass on tips that got declined to the next empath to heal me in addition to the normal tip... should be fun, especially if I find a baby empath after getting healed for free a few times.
Being a War Mage is great. You get to rain all sorts of desctruction on people. Plus, you can blame your gas on Zephyr. Just wave your fingers and let it out.
-XXXX, explaining to my new character why he should join the Warrior Mage Guild.
SCHWARTZH6
Re: The Crappy Payment Blotter:
09/07/2008 10:45 AM CDT
I am WAY late to this discussion, but I'd like to chime in anyway: If I've just died and resurrected myself with MF I am usually missing two or three limbs and some vital part of me. Not to mention the body rash. If an empath sees this and demands a payment up front for the healing, I'm more than willing to strike a deal provided the service is good. Empaths who want to charge is fine for me, as long as they don't mind a bit of haggling now and then. In fact, I'd actually prefer it as I never know if I'm tipping enough.
That being said if any empaths want to hang out in the Abyss with Caelane, she's up for some bargaining for their services/company. If you can open lach boxes, even better. ;)
~Player of "One of the Caels."
Bromus says, "think I'm gonna go horn some shylvics and mastiffs"
Bromus says, "and then get some sleep"
You say, "I can't think of anything to say to that."
That being said if any empaths want to hang out in the Abyss with Caelane, she's up for some bargaining for their services/company. If you can open lach boxes, even better. ;)
~Player of "One of the Caels."
Bromus says, "think I'm gonna go horn some shylvics and mastiffs"
Bromus says, "and then get some sleep"
You say, "I can't think of anything to say to that."
