I've heard quite a few people asking about and/or openly selling IZ on the gweth. Isn't this spell supposed to be at least as illicit as teleologic sorcery if not as socially unacceptable as full blown necromancy? Currently it's being bandied about as if it were just another harmless Empath spell.

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>Here's an IC out: It's rare enough to the NPC populace that they don't know what it is.

I'm not talking about dumb peasants. The Khalaen represent the most draconian leadership of all the guilds; particularly where it pertains to abilities that expand or pervert the empathic link. IZ doubles (or triples) down on this.

It's inconsistent that you can openly buy and sell these while broadcasting your intent worldwide with impunity.

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> It's inconsistent that you can openly buy and sell these while broadcasting your intent worldwide with impunity.

Do the guild leaders wear gweths?

> And again, the notion that empaths are soft and or fuzzy is an ignorant mistake in the part of some players.

I think this is an intentional misdirection. Empaths aren't soft or fuzzy, but they try to create an aura as if they were.

Start up a new character and join the guild. Tell me how that message isn't a soft and fuzzy one. You have some deeper stories spread throughout the books, but that's not the message being shared.

They need to resume stabbing new empaths when they join.

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Re: Life mana Spell preps

You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.

>>>To what extent that PR extends to our guildleaders as far as thinks like IZ goes...I would think they would take exception to it, dunno.

I wonder if they take the same approach to IZ as the philosophers do it blatant necromancy .... The spell is fine, just don't get seen using it

>>>That said I believe it was Raesh who said that the Empaths are probably top 3 in the "shady guilds" category

That is an interesting thought. To be third empaths would need to beat out one of thieves, necromancers and moon mages.

>>That said I believe it was Raesh who said that the Empaths are probably top 3 in the "shady guilds" category, but that their PR people do a darn good job at making the common folk believe the white, pristine image.

Eh... could have been me, or Armifer, or maybe Melete. There's some wiggle room in that statement (The fact that thieves don't make the top three says something but then again... their secrets are more common and less hidden abominations.)

IC-wise IZ is essentially Transcendental Necromancy. I mean, it's NOT, but that's the bucket society would most likely put it into.

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

I want to thank you (collective you) again for coding that spell. I've always played the healer in every MMO, but even the healer needs to solo from time to time (especially in DR). I strongly welcome anything in this direction. I plan on getting a lot of use out of it as soon as I have enough empathy that I don't have to freeze my character in place to do so.

Given that Empathy is Thanatology with the bubble wrap still on, I get why IZ is arguably Transcendental Necromancy.

If anything, you could possibly argue that the reason why it isn't Transcendental is not because it's limited but because, AFAIK, necros can't transmute someone else. IZ is manipulating the form of an outside force. It's not internal. It's too good!

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Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

>>If anything, you could possibly argue that the reason why it isn't Transcendental is not because it's limited but because, AFAIK, necros can't transmute someone else. IZ is manipulating the form of an outside force. It's not internal. It's too good!

There's also the fact that it's not sorcery.

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

<<The guild leadership certainly disapproves of IZ just as much as they do shifting, if not moreso. However, there's not really a mechanism in place to deal with people selling scrolls or asking to buy scrolls on the gweths (unless I'm way more out of the loop than I think I am), so it'll have to be reacted to by the players and not so much the GMPCs, except in a more general way.

Kssarh makes semi-frequent appearance to gweth smash anyone talking about necromancy or teleology on the gweths. I'm sure he, or probably more appropriately another empath GMNPC, could be convinced to do the same.

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Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators

>>DR-Melete: However, there's not really a mechanism in place to deal with people selling scrolls or asking to buy scrolls on the gweths (unless I'm way more out of the loop than I think I am), so it'll have to be reacted to by the players and not so much the GMPCs, except in a more general way.

There's no automated mechanism, but when people are openly selling necromancy spell scrolls, I often REPORT them so that their social outrage can be adjusted to better reflect how society views such activity.

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"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer

Empath new player guide: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Empath_new_player_guide

Empath hunting ladder: https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Empath_hunting_ladder

Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.

They're proud of them.

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

> I play a shockless Empath who most certainly treats PvE against living critters as his primary activity.

How do you circle? How much time does it take you to get back into a state where you can play support again? I would love to be playing this wrong, but I find empathy to be my gate in circling. I literally need just that for the next 25 circles. That's a ton of TDPs and spell slots that I'm missing out on.

That's why I like absolution so much. It lets me go do something else for a while and then flip back and forth. It's also a reason I look forward to playing with this spell as I try to manage my shock as a resource rather than a limitation. I just don't want to risk it now when I still have so much room to grow within the guild first. (Yes I perma-learned the spell... just in case I change my mind).

> I don't now how else to say this to you, but you should listen to what a lot of the non-Crossing based 'tee hee' healers are saying.

I feel like "tee hee" is an inside joke that I'm not getting, but I've counted 4-5 people who said they mained an empath when I recently asked. Of those, not many seemed overly concerned with combat on their empath. Follow-up with the GM direction, and I realize that I need to be leveling another class to actually play the game on. As in combat, the primary thing to do in this game. I'm not particularly happy about that, but I feel that I am missing on quite a bit until that happens.

> A better statement should be 'less players should be under the impression that the Empaths guild is tee hee nice healer happy time'.

I would love more development in that direction, but the mechanics just aren't there to support that.

>How do you circle? How much time does it take you to get back into a state where you can play support again? I would love to be playing this wrong, but I find empathy to be my gate in circling. I literally need just that for the next 25 circles. That's a ton of TDPs and spell slots that I'm missing out on.

Empathy is moving 100% of the time for me, so, I circle as fast as Empathy drains. I don't think you understand how effective Manipulate is for training. Again, my Empath is unshocked - he can heal immediately, and whenever. Empathy is ALSO the thing that gates his circling, but to repeat myself, it moves 100% of the time for me.

>That's why I like absolution so much. It lets me go do something else for a while and then flip back and forth. It's also a reason I look forward to playing with this spell as I try to manage my shock as a resource rather than a limitation. I just don't want to risk it now when I still have so much room to grow within the guild first. (Yes I perma-learned the spell... just in case I change my mind).

I like that Absolution exists, a lot, but I have zero interest in training Weapon skills on my Empath, and TM trains very effectively with Paralyze and GS. Weapons are for TDPs, and the absolute bottom of my training priority list - I occasionally hold a weapon for parrying, but really don't care about weapons. More TDPs would be fine, but I don't need to up strength or agility, so, who really cares?

>I feel like "tee hee" is an inside joke that I'm not getting, but I've counted 4-5 people who said they mained an empath when I recently asked. Of those, not many seemed overly concerned with combat on their empath. Follow-up with the GM direction, and I realize that I need to be leveling another class to actually play the game on. As in combat, the primary thing to do in this game. I'm not particularly happy about that, but I feel that I am missing on quite a bit until that happens.

Did you ask in the Crossing guildhall? I can name offhand well over a dozen Empaths who spend the majority of their time in combat - indeed, just about every hunting ground I have characters in has an Empath and their GS doing their thing. Haven't you seen all the complaints of how Empath+GS sucks up too many critters in an area?

I concur that there's an over emphasis on combat, but, then, as a lore prime guild, Empaths can also do a lot of non-combat stuff to advance. But ask yourself, what do you mean by 'support'? Does it, perhaps, mean helping someone in combat? Other than a Paladin guarding you, how do you propose doing that if not training yourself in combat as well?

>I would love more development in that direction, but the mechanics just aren't there to support that.

Please listen to me, please - 'tee hee nice healer happy time' is a misunderstanding SOME players have perpetuated because of a lack of paying attention to what the guild is about. The guild is DISTINCTLY not about tee hee nice healer happy time, and more than provides the tools and lore to underline this point, amply.

IZ is just re-emphasizing the point. What do you think shift is?

I really find it annoying that people didn't see anything incongruous about having their leg shatter as they fall to the floor screaming in pain, and then giggle and cheerfully say they're glad to help.

I want to thank DERIUM for having the patience to come check out some Empath combat stuff. I know I can be a pushy jerk on the forums sometimes, and apologize for that, and think it was cool of DERIUM to be willing to listen and test.

>PS: I've been testing spells to see if they work on the GS.

I can save you some time, no buff spells other than VIGOR are intended to work on the GS at this time. For bless, you can bless a weapon and have the warrior take it from you. (COMMAND WARRIOR TO TAKE) All of this info is on the GS's wiki page.

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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Yes that's the case.

(Interestingly, during 3.0 testing and for a little while after release - GSes were also immune to many hostile spells as well.)

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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.