What skill does this spell depend on to successfully cast? I see it listed as a Utility spell but I hear it only trains Targeted Magic. I was just speaking with another Empath and they said it might be dependent on your TM ranks? Is this true or is it Utility?
KAELRX
ABSOLON
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 03:59 PM CDT
Disclaimer: This is how I believe it works, so it might be wrong and there's certainly more detail to it.
It's a utility spell, so you need skill in utility to put more mana into the spell. TM determines the base strength of your warrior and this is modified by the amount of mana you put into it. This means that utility also has an indirect effect on it's strength, but only in that it increases your maximum potential. It doesn't actually factor into it's stats directly.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
It's a utility spell, so you need skill in utility to put more mana into the spell. TM determines the base strength of your warrior and this is modified by the amount of mana you put into it. This means that utility also has an indirect effect on it's strength, but only in that it increases your maximum potential. It doesn't actually factor into it's stats directly.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Epedia Admins - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Elanthipedia:Administrators
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 04:02 PM CDT
>>It's a utility spell, so you need skill in utility to put more mana into the spell. TM determines the base strength of your warrior and this is modified by the amount of mana you put into it. This means that utility also has an indirect effect on it's strength, but only in that it increases your maximum potential. It doesn't actually factor into it's stats directly.
Correct.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Correct.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
KAELRX
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 04:10 PM CDT
Thank you, that makes sense now.
Anyone remember the minimum amount of skill you could pull it off with (since it's been esoteric cyclic)? I have utility mastery but can't cast it yet at 135 PM 124 Utility
Anyone remember the minimum amount of skill you could pull it off with (since it's been esoteric cyclic)? I have utility mastery but can't cast it yet at 135 PM 124 Utility
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 04:44 PM CDT
Esoterics are usually reliably castable around 180 or so. With a Mastery, you'll probably be able to cast around 150-170. You can, of course, always get a Cleric friend to cast SaP - Utility on you. I also believe, but could be wrong, that buffing your mentals will facilitate in getting the spell off.
The strength of your spirit, as Abselom already said, is determined by your TM, though how much mana you put into the cyclic will also affect this, so more Utility means more mana can be stuffed into it. I think Melete said 10 mana was the base, and it went up and down from there?
FWIW, I think GS should be bumped down to an advanced or even basic spell to allow young Empaths a bit of an easier time getting started hunting.
KAELRX
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 04:52 PM CDT
>>FWIW, I think GS should be bumped down to an advanced or even basic spell to allow young Empaths a bit of an easier time getting started hunting.
I completely agree, I had it at 9th circle before 2.0 changes and still can't cast it at nearly 30th now. The 20th circle requirement for this spell is a complete utter joke, unless you're WAY over the requirements for 20th you won't be able to cast it for a long time.
I completely agree, I had it at 9th circle before 2.0 changes and still can't cast it at nearly 30th now. The 20th circle requirement for this spell is a complete utter joke, unless you're WAY over the requirements for 20th you won't be able to cast it for a long time.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 04:59 PM CDT
I think an alternative to changing GS would be lowering the requirements for Manipulate to ~10th circle or so, or removing them entirely. When I started hunting with Manipulate and GS, I ended up backtraining armors to get skinning up to snuff. It was annoying.
KAELRX
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/10/2014 05:04 PM CDT
>>I think an alternative to changing GS would be lowering the requirements for Manipulate to ~10th circle or so, or removing them entirely. When I started hunting with Manipulate and GS, I ended up backtraining armors to get skinning up to snuff. It was annoying.
I would agree except that I can't cast GS yet and my skinning is waaaay behind. Manipulate is nice for training Empathy but doesn't seem to net many kills (maybe 1-4 in a hunting session of 30-60 minutes)
I would agree except that I can't cast GS yet and my skinning is waaaay behind. Manipulate is nice for training Empathy but doesn't seem to net many kills (maybe 1-4 in a hunting session of 30-60 minutes)
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 02:02 AM CDT
Manipulation kills plenty, it just varies a lot by what creatures you are manipulating. For example sky giants and apes take awhile to kill each other, but any type of wyvern seems to shred its kin with just a few debuffs here and there. If there's a couple different creatures in your training bracket, try a few different ones. And be sure to debilitate stuff. While I haven't tested this extensively, non-bipeds seem to do the best at killing eachother while manipulated.
>I think an alternative to changing GS would be lowering the requirements for Manipulate to ~10th circle or so, or removing them entirely.
Manipulate was already recently lowered to 50 effective empathy. You can learn it at 10th circle with a buff or two on your empathy skill. (I have done it.) I think the GS and Manipulate requirements are fine where they are.
Took me under a week to go from circle 0-30 on an empath alt I rolled up in July for science. That was without using any scripts (besides travel) I already had and without helping myself with any other characters.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
>I think an alternative to changing GS would be lowering the requirements for Manipulate to ~10th circle or so, or removing them entirely.
Manipulate was already recently lowered to 50 effective empathy. You can learn it at 10th circle with a buff or two on your empathy skill. (I have done it.) I think the GS and Manipulate requirements are fine where they are.
Took me under a week to go from circle 0-30 on an empath alt I rolled up in July for science. That was without using any scripts (besides travel) I already had and without helping myself with any other characters.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 02:05 AM CDT
>Manipulate was already recently lowered to 50 effective empathy. You can learn it at 10th circle with a buff or two on your empathy skill. (I have done it.) I think the GS and Manipulate requirements are fine where they are.
Oh! EPedia is not updated to that, but if that's the case, then nevermind, we're golden!
>I would agree except that I can't cast GS yet and my skinning is waaaay behind. Manipulate is nice for training Empathy but doesn't seem to net many kills (maybe 1-4 in a hunting session of 30-60 minutes)
SUPPORT the friendlied targets, paralyze, lethargy, and tactics debuff whatever they're facing. Stuff will die fast.
Oh! EPedia is not updated to that, but if that's the case, then nevermind, we're golden!
>I would agree except that I can't cast GS yet and my skinning is waaaay behind. Manipulate is nice for training Empathy but doesn't seem to net many kills (maybe 1-4 in a hunting session of 30-60 minutes)
SUPPORT the friendlied targets, paralyze, lethargy, and tactics debuff whatever they're facing. Stuff will die fast.
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 02:11 AM CDT
>>Oh! EPedia is not updated to that, but if that's the case, then nevermind, we're golden!
Where? It's on the manipulate page and has been for sometime. Which pages need updating?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Where? It's on the manipulate page and has been for sometime. Which pages need updating?
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
SARKRANIS
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 03:00 AM CDT
>>Jhaliascleric: Oh! EPedia is not updated to that, but if that's the case, then nevermind, we're golden!
It would be nice if people actually checked the relevant article before making statements like this. The empathy requirement was reduced to 50 ranks on March 20, 2013. Caraamon updated the manipulation article the same day to reflect this.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Manipulate_ability
As someone who has worked to ensure that the Empath ability sections are up-to-date, it is very frustrating when people make blanket statements about the accuracy of the wiki without citing specific examples (so they can be fixed) or even checking whether the examples they complain of are actually true.
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
It would be nice if people actually checked the relevant article before making statements like this. The empathy requirement was reduced to 50 ranks on March 20, 2013. Caraamon updated the manipulation article the same day to reflect this.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Manipulate_ability
As someone who has worked to ensure that the Empath ability sections are up-to-date, it is very frustrating when people make blanket statements about the accuracy of the wiki without citing specific examples (so they can be fixed) or even checking whether the examples they complain of are actually true.
"Empathy doesn't make people nice." --GM Armifer
Vote for DragonRealms on Top MUD Sites: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
DELVER
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 10:00 AM CDT
>The empathy requirement was reduced to 50 ranks on March 20, 2013. Caraamon updated the manipulation article the same day to reflect this.
And on December 5, 2012 it was made available at 1st circle in Plat being taught by the Guildleader when joining or for any Empath who didn't know it yet by inputting the verb MANIPULATE.
Asbhuan/Plat
And on December 5, 2012 it was made available at 1st circle in Plat being taught by the Guildleader when joining or for any Empath who didn't know it yet by inputting the verb MANIPULATE.
Asbhuan/Plat
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/11/2014 04:09 PM CDT
I misread the article, sorry, I didn't mean to frustrate anyone, nor make blanket statements about the accuracy of EPedia as a whole.
KAELRX
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/14/2014 03:49 PM CDT
Just started being able to cast it at ~140 PM & ~130 Utility with Utility Mastery. Spell info updated on Elanthipedia
SCHULTZS3
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
10/15/2014 03:46 AM CDT
>Manipulation kills plenty, it just varies a lot by what creatures you are manipulating. For example sky giants and apes take awhile to kill each other, but any type of wyvern seems to shred its kin with just a few debuffs here and there.
It's because the natural critters only defend with evasion, while "intelligent" critters use evasion plus parry/shield. So unarmed critters tear each other apart while armed critters go at each other and parry/block each other forever unless you make their duel imbalanced by disabling one.
It's why I prefer going for the unarmed critters. Well, that and they're almost always skinnable and boxless.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
It's because the natural critters only defend with evasion, while "intelligent" critters use evasion plus parry/shield. So unarmed critters tear each other apart while armed critters go at each other and parry/block each other forever unless you make their duel imbalanced by disabling one.
It's why I prefer going for the unarmed critters. Well, that and they're almost always skinnable and boxless.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
DRSCOTT
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
04/25/2015 11:15 AM CDT
Rezzing this thread, but Nadigo in TF won't teach manipulate at 50 empathy. I was eventually able to learn it from another empath.
NIKPACK
Re: Guardian Spirit Difficulty
04/25/2015 12:25 PM CDT
I would have expected TF use Plat's new system:
>The empathy requirement was reduced to 50 ranks on March 20, 2013. Caraamon updated the manipulation article the same day to reflect this.
>>And on December 5, 2012 it was made available at 1st circle in Plat being taught by the Guildleader when joining or for any Empath who didn't know it yet by inputting the verb MANIPULATE.
Nikpack
>The empathy requirement was reduced to 50 ranks on March 20, 2013. Caraamon updated the manipulation article the same day to reflect this.
>>And on December 5, 2012 it was made available at 1st circle in Plat being taught by the Guildleader when joining or for any Empath who didn't know it yet by inputting the verb MANIPULATE.
Nikpack
