I've been wondering lately, how do avengers work? What determines presently how dangerous they are? Is it circle? PM? Some combination? I've been wondering because while I have no problem using them to hunt some critters, others seem to attack the avenger, and potentially damage them. I went to play with Unyns the other day, and the avenger could barely do anything to them.
How high can I take the Avenger before I have to go back to hunting the old fashioned way? Via manipulate.
MOLENIR
JMF90
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 08:25 AM CDT
Somehow Calg worked out Circle*2 + charisma
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
MOLENIR
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 11:20 AM CDT
I am curious though what that means in terms of relative strength. I get how to improve my avenger currently. Circle a bunch more times and she'll be that much stronger. Or raise charisma. However what does that mean in terms of hunting? Obviously my current avenger can handle where I'm at. How much higher though can she go? Is circle * 2 + Charisma a total skill type thing? Does it compare to the hunting chart? As in, say I'm 50th circle and have 50 charisma, that would put my avenger at around 150 total power. That means I could hunt the critters on the bestiary at around 150?
This isn't urgent at all obviously. I'm good where I'm at. I just noticed the other day when I went into an area I wasn't quite ready for, that my Avenger seemed to not be ready for it as well.
This isn't urgent at all obviously. I'm good where I'm at. I just noticed the other day when I went into an area I wasn't quite ready for, that my Avenger seemed to not be ready for it as well.
SAUVA
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 11:35 AM CDT
What it works out to is that at 150th circle and 99 charisma the best an empath can hope for is an avenger with ~400 in offensive factor (some combo of weapon skill/agility/strength/etc) and defensive factor (whatever combo of evasion/parry/stamina/natural armor/reflex/etc).
Like many things that the GMs are trying to change in DR this works out ok in the bottom end (10th circle empath in goblins) but really sucks at the top end (150th empath trying to hunt 150th critters). The harder you train combats the faster that nasty curve catches up to you and the faster your avenger becomes crappy. It's like an anti-reward.
Anyway, I have high hopes for avengers once they move to a TM model.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
Like many things that the GMs are trying to change in DR this works out ok in the bottom end (10th circle empath in goblins) but really sucks at the top end (150th empath trying to hunt 150th critters). The harder you train combats the faster that nasty curve catches up to you and the faster your avenger becomes crappy. It's like an anti-reward.
Anyway, I have high hopes for avengers once they move to a TM model.
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 11:46 AM CDT
It's easy to outpace your avenger if you focus on combat. Many Empaths who focus on combat have this problem, which is why I'd rather have a TM-based avenger. Szrael's avenger (which she got at 15th circle) has actually never been able to stand up to the things she uses to learn. (I think Szrael was hunting morah vines then, and it couldn't hit them.) Right now, Szrael uses the avenger mainly to get skins to scrape or tan, and to kill people she totally outclasses.
Manipulate isn't a great choice either, since we have no way to stop manipulating once we start (if you can't despawn them with innocence) and hunting with less than 50% concentration is pretty much a death sentence, in my opinion.
Hopefully things will be improving... Soon.
-- Player of Szrael --
Come to the first Empath Union Meeting -- Sunday July 19th at 7PM EST, to be held on the Jolly Roger ship, which will be moored to the Skirr dock in Crossing.
Manipulate isn't a great choice either, since we have no way to stop manipulating once we start (if you can't despawn them with innocence) and hunting with less than 50% concentration is pretty much a death sentence, in my opinion.
Hopefully things will be improving... Soon.
-- Player of Szrael --
Come to the first Empath Union Meeting -- Sunday July 19th at 7PM EST, to be held on the Jolly Roger ship, which will be moored to the Skirr dock in Crossing.
LOFTONM1
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 06:41 PM CDT
>>Many Empaths who focus on combat have this problem, which is why I'd rather have a TM-based avenger.
I would rather a TM avenger, too, but you have to understand that avengers are a mutually exclusive system right now and most empaths tend to think along "normal" or balanced lines. They want to fight well, they want to have good avengers, they want to heal well, and so on and even if they choose to focus on one area they generally don't let the others get too far out of whack. If you want a great avenger as soon as possible, you have to give up all this other stuff. My first avenger managed to beat the snot out of silver leucros, as an example, but even now I still have trouble surviving against goblins.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
I would rather a TM avenger, too, but you have to understand that avengers are a mutually exclusive system right now and most empaths tend to think along "normal" or balanced lines. They want to fight well, they want to have good avengers, they want to heal well, and so on and even if they choose to focus on one area they generally don't let the others get too far out of whack. If you want a great avenger as soon as possible, you have to give up all this other stuff. My first avenger managed to beat the snot out of silver leucros, as an example, but even now I still have trouble surviving against goblins.
DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG.
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Avengers
07/16/2009 06:53 PM CDT
>>If you want a great avenger as soon as possible, you have to give up all this other stuff.
What?
Currently there's not much difference between a 30th circle empath healing and a 100th
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
What?
Currently there's not much difference between a 30th circle empath healing and a 100th
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
ARNWOLF
Re: Avengers
07/23/2009 05:19 PM CDT
Appraise your avenger, raise your reflexes, appraise it again. And you will see that the avengers reflexes are always the same as yours. That goes with other abilities too. So I don't think it is all charisma based on appraising.
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Avengers
07/23/2009 05:58 PM CDT
You are certain that the alfar avenger is healthy.
You are certain that that the alfar avenger has an incredible spirit that is healthy.
You are certain that it is somewhat more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat stronger than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon and wearing a crocodile-skin buckler, you are certain that the alfar avenger is a less skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with no weapon, you are certain that the alfar avenger is a mythical being of immense power and ability.
???
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
You are certain that that the alfar avenger has an incredible spirit that is healthy.
You are certain that it is somewhat more agile than you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat less quick to react than you are.
You are certain that it is somewhat stronger than you are.
Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon and wearing a crocodile-skin buckler, you are certain that the alfar avenger is a less skilled opponent.
Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with no weapon, you are certain that the alfar avenger is a mythical being of immense power and ability.
???
~Arwinia
The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer
LORZELOPHIA
Re: Avengers
07/23/2009 09:32 PM CDT
Same here.
Hmmm.
--Player of Szrael --
Professional Healers Association Fee Calculator:
http://empathunion.appspot.com
Professional Healers Association Unofficial Crossing Healing Spot: east, north, go backdoor from Empath guild.
| You are certain that the alfar avenger is healthy. |
| You are certain that that the alfar avenger has an incredible spirit that is healthy. |
| You are certain that it is about as agile as you are. |
| You are certain that it is rather less quick to react than you are. |
| You are certain that it is about as strong as you are. |
| Taking stock of its offensive abilities, and defending with no weapon and wearing a crocodile-skin buckler, you are certain that the alfar avenger is a relatively easy opponent. |
| Taking stock of its defensive abilities, and attacking with no weapon, you are certain that the alfar avenger is something you could wipe the floor with. |
Hmmm.
--Player of Szrael --
Professional Healers Association Fee Calculator:
http://empathunion.appspot.com
Professional Healers Association Unofficial Crossing Healing Spot: east, north, go backdoor from Empath guild.
ARNWOLF
Re: Avengers
08/05/2009 12:39 AM CDT
Surprises me. Mine was quicker when I had a 42 reflex, I raised mine to 47 and it was still quicker. Worked like that for other increases as well.
ARNWOLF
Re:Avengers
08/05/2009 03:36 PM CDT
Double checking my data. Seems you are right about abilities and Avengers Arwinia.
