With so many invasions and the past few weeks, I've seen way too many empaths overheal. It's a good thing that these empaths learn how to heal deadly wounds in a timely manner but when they overheal, it slows down triage because they need to be healed then raised.

If you die overhealing, get your memories and a ward and depart. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time because of your own mistake.

Well said Lorz.


Life is too short to drink cheap beer.

Overhealing is dying because you're dumb and careless. There's no other way around it. If an empath died while defending or combat healing etc, I'd definitely help them get healed and raised but when there's a limited amount of empaths and clerics at triage and you suicide because you don't know your own limits, it sucks to be you.

>>Overhealing is not a noble praiseworthy sacrifice on the part of the Empath, it's stupidity and/or carelessness and it's wrong to expect others to have to clean up after it; if they truly wish to help the triage they'll depart. It's not quite the same as getting reamed by a dinego that just walked in.

Praise, no. But overhealing is something that happens -- it happens to even the most skilled empaths, and many times I think it comes down to chance more than skill or lack of skill. Yeah, it's irritating when people bring out their mule Empaths which they clearly never play except to type .empath, and then immediately overheal and then beg for raises. But it's another thing to die when you typed "cast chset" instead of "cast chest" or because your "heal chest int half" started transferring wildly because of nerve damage and killed you unexpectedly.

I see empaths who overheal as casualties, and I think it's wrong to punish them by telling them to depart when they were trying to help -- more or less exactly because we wouldn't tell somene who died because their inviso ring went down while they were dragging corpses to depart because their stupidity and lack of skill is what killed them.

So if dying for a stupid reason --> departure, then...

All of the rubberneckers who run to invasions and stupidly die should depart.
All the people who are raised, run back into the fray and immediately die should depart.
Every noob who was running around looting treasure and dies should depart.

But we don't tell these people to depart -- just the Empaths.

Personally, and you know this Reene, I think YOU ALL should depart. But applying this standard to Empaths, and no one else, is just another manifestation of this "second class citizens" attitude that I so often see foisted off on Empaths.

No thanks.

---

Dragonrealms Tourney Calendar: http://tourneydr.com

I have the exact same attitude towards those who overheal in triage. If you overheal, you're getting a ward and departing. It's foolish to risk empaths to heal someone who died doing what they should know how to do. That is the policy at any triage I'm running. Empaths job is to heal and save lives, not to become a body, a hinderance. The only exception I make to this is when it is dangerous or impossible to depart. No empath should think that overhealing is just in the line of duty accident. It is embarassing and a sign that you need to work on your basic skills. If overhealing is an issue for you, you should definitely highlight the following:

"feel a burning pain" - damaging level wound(get another wound this size, you die or are a whisker from death)
"swoon from the incredible" - Two more steps and you die(you should stop now)
"You shudder from the unbearable pain" - STOP NOW(you are a whisker away from death)
"bursts with excruciating pain" - STOP NOW

Absolutely, we'd love if more people departed at triage, but without a paladin, I will never encourage it. It's difficult to get wards as it is. Please do not ever depart in triage(or an invasion) without a ward. We don't want to see you dig out your stuff, nor will we be watching for who stole your stuff.

~ Player of Lyathe

<<Yeah, it's irritating when people bring out their mule Empaths which they clearly never play except to type .empath>>

.heal actually heh

:oP Ragran

ummm... usually when i die stupid the first thing i say is that i will depart, right after "crap" a lot of the time i am told not to and some one offers to raise me. honestly, we all make mistakes and overheal at some point or another. it happens. i have died becaue of "fog", because of scars that sneak up on me, and frankly it is hard as hell to heal in a crowded noisy room where you can't even see where the bodies are.

favors are easy to get, happy to use them. but, i don't think overhealing on accident in a crowded room full of people makes me stupid, just less than perfect.

not always stupidity, getting hit with a lag spike is a sure way to die as well


--
Treat empaths with respect, you'll live longer.
--
If life doesn't need intelligence,
Then why should intelligence need life?
--
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Legeres
http://www.myspace.com/ledge_ear_us
http://legeres.deviantart.com

Unfortunately, with the changes to concentration, taking part or half of the wounds is much harder than it used to be, leaving many empaths without that option.


Life is too short to drink cheap beer.

I'm somewhat in agreeance with the bias that a lot of people have toward empaths, in treating them differently (especially since so many people have support empaths. I actually like to RP mine, though..so I don't consider her support since I rarely ever use her for it.), however..when I see my 20th circle empath healing circles around 40th-50th circle empaths and NOT dying from overhealing, I get a little bit disheartened and annoyed.

It does slow down triage quite a bit. I mean.. maybe it's not really difficult to overheal, but as an empath..especially as a primary character empath, you should know your limits..know how to react when your vitality gets low or you have too many bleeders, and know when/how to stop in case none of the above tactics are working. Of course accidents happen, but in the last couple of invasions..with my primary character, I have watched the same empath die more than once in triage, when there was ample empathic help to back them up so that they don't overheal. And those empaths, all got raises instead of departing.

I don't feel bad saying any of this, because I play my empath maybe only half as much as my primary character (below) and not only do I know my healing limits, but I have only died once from overhealing (we all do it at least once). So...I guess the point of this is, if you're going to do triage, make sure that you're going to aid the cause. Don't try to be a superhero. Do what you can, heal up, and then continue. People DO appreciate the work you do, just don't overheal yourself.

That's all I guess.


- Terra
_______
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, "You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done." -George Carlin

Francelia very rarely over healed herself; in fact, she took great pride in the fact that she had not had a single over healing death until she was getting more actively involved in field healing. She experienced several at this time, which were completely her own fault, as I started using a .take script. Things were moving along well for her until she hit 30th circle, at which time everything I learned about how to heal, and every thing Francelia did tanked with the concentration changes, and the ability to take wounds quicker. She is not proud of the fact that she has fallen in triage, and it is one of the reasons she would rather be in the field than in triage healing situation. She learned to adjust to these changes by talking with more experienced empaths. As it stands now she is just getting use to her new ability to heal wounds faster, but can still proudly say that most of the times she dies it is at the hand of some nasty thing that has her in its sights rather then stupidity on her part.

I, as her player, however do not think that anyone should judge another empath when they die of over healing. There are many factors that go into healing a person, not the least of which (especially in triage) there is a great deal going on, and those prompts one gets when one is in danger of keeling over can quickly be lost as someone fills the screen with getting things out of their grave, people appearing and leaving the area triage is in, and people begging for wards, healing, or just trying to get information about what is going on. Scroll has killed me quicker than anything else in this game, because even my "highlights" can quickly be lost before I have the time to process the information, or do something about what I have just read. As to doing a ward and a depart, it certainly makes it easier on the other empaths in triage, but there are times when the situation is uncertain beyond the area of triage, and for me quite frequently I am in a triage where I don't know the area, or where I would end up if I depart, and running around with nothing to protect me and no clue where I might be going if I do depart is a dicey proposition.

Some things I would recommend, especially in times of trouble, invasion or if there are many dead lying about and living wounded coming in to be healed.

*Empaths: Heal those things that are the most deadly, the bleeders, and those things that keep someone from actively fighting such as a missing limb or nerve damage.

*Patients: If an empath has healed the bleeders, and other things that will keep you from joining the battle, but left you with scraps and scars eat some herbs, there are (in most cases) bags of herbs at triage for anyone to use.

This would certainly help get people back on their feet sooner, and help the empaths from having so much down time between working on one patient and the next, and would certainly cut down on compounding wounds that could lead to suddenly having a missing abdomen.

>> I was no different then the people who accidently blow up a box or accidentally die hunting, etc.

Actually it's very different. There's no such thing as rolling snake-eyes when you're healing someone. A scratch will not spontaneously morph into a pulped body part and kill you by virtue of the random number god screwing you over.

It's user error. It may be that you hit a patch of lag or get disconnected yes, but that's a calculated risk you choose to take whenever you begin a transfer of a wound that will kill you if it completes. The solution is to not begin transferring a wound if it can kill you. You have many, many tools at your disposal to handle this.

This is speaking as someone that played as an Empath primarily for years. Not to pull rank or anything but the high-and-mighty "BUT WE HEAL YOU AND IT'S HARD" routine won't work on me seeing as I was playing an Empath back when healing was the only way to advance in the guild and most Empaths literally begged for people to bring them wounds so they could wring experience out of it.

You overheal, it's your own fault. Kind of like if I rogue gate, it's my own fault. QQ a river, build a bridge and get over it.

---

Rev. Reene

"Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great...The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass."
- Dogen

>>high-and-mighty<<

As stated in my post, I don't want to be considered high and mighty. Treat empaths with the same heal/raise respect that all other guilds get when they make stupid death errors.

>>"BUT WE HEAL YOU AND IT'S HARD" routine<<

My point to my healing comments was that people love us when they need healing but not enough to even consider us heal or raise worthy.

<<See, that's where using a script gets people in trouble. It's fine for your everyday sit-in-the-guild healing, but for a triage situation you really need to pay attention to what's going on.>>

it depends on how well-written the script is.

the empaths in TF don't seem to have a problem with over-healing.


<<Because it's a gigantic can of worms. Eldritch, necrotic, squamous worms, writhing in a vile stew of coagulating ichor, crushed from the living gullets of a thousand infant puppies, ululating in wordless terror. - Lorz>>

>> Before take part works reliably, there's a chance of the transfer going wild and transferring the whole wound at once.

I have never in seven years seen an entire useless level wound transfer in one pulse. So no, that isn't the same thing.

How the wild transfer bit works IIRC is that it will more or less pick a random rate and amount to transfer. And nothing stops you from breaking the link before it pulses when you see this happen, either.

---

Rev. Reene

"Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great...The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass."
- Dogen

I've become somewhat convinced that the main reason other Empaths gripe about healing empaths who overheal is because they don't get any EXP from doing so. Would an Empath who died fighting on the front lines and was dragged in be treated any differently from an Empath who overhealed?

---

Dragonrealms Tourney Calendar: http://tourneydr.com

ok really.. i heal EVERYONE (ummm... almost) and do it regardless of the guild they are. i heal up other empaths just so they dont have to, random sleepy strangers, and have on occasion healed people that my empath despises. so the not healing other empaths thing really doesn't fly with me. you gain other experience when you heal yourself anyway.

if you dont want to heal some one, or raise some one, it is totally your perogative. BUT don't rip on others unless you have acheived some level of perfection that they just are to human to even aspire to.

Just from a technical standpoint, it is not possible for an entire useless wound to transfer in one pulse.

-GM Obseden
"To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven."
"Anything's possible. Especially since I'm rewriting the system."

>> Just from a technical standpoint, it is not possible for an entire useless wound to transfer in one pulse.

Thank you for confirming this.

---

Rev. Reene

"Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great...The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in one dewdrop on the grass."
- Dogen