So is it just me or are quests in DR generally just meant to be a super punishing time for the level you're able to actually do them? I mean look at Infuse, Rezz, MF, and generally anything for Moon Mages (cantrips included). Is this intended? As I understand it MF was doable when you were able to cast Harm Horde at a certain mana level to hit the critters in the void but now we have to worry about actually standing toe to toe with them rather than spamming retreat and they're far, far ahead of what you can stand toe to toe against, much less naked without OM, with the new retreat mechanics lowering your TM/attack. Doesn't really seem fair to update the mechanics to make the quests even more punishing than they already are without updating what you're going against. Seems really arbitrary to have level requirements like 50th when you won't even have the TM necessary to make contact with them for another 10+ circles.
KAELRX
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 11:27 AM CDT
>>So is it just me or are quests in DR generally just meant to be a super punishing time for the level you're able to actually do them?
Because of how some players train, they're ready for quests sooner than their intended time. Because of this, players are given access to quests sooner than they are typically expected to complete them. I don't think you're required to complete those particular quests right when you get them, so it's not like you are under the gun to complete them immediately.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Because of how some players train, they're ready for quests sooner than their intended time. Because of this, players are given access to quests sooner than they are typically expected to complete them. I don't think you're required to complete those particular quests right when you get them, so it's not like you are under the gun to complete them immediately.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BADGOPHER
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 11:31 AM CDT
The Actual GM Answer to this has always been that most quests are set at level X (Let's say 50).
They're made available at a much lower level in case you have friends, over-train, or otherwise can haggle your way through with success.
They're made available at a much lower level in case you have friends, over-train, or otherwise can haggle your way through with success.
KAELRX
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 11:35 AM CDT
Can't have friends join you in the void during MF, can't even have OM with you, retreating was the norm for it but that now penalizes your TM and you need something like 300 evasion to evade those undead. I mean if it was even remotely close in level to the requirement (50th) it'd make SOME sense. And I mean really? Heirophants (600-700) at 30th level is a bit obscene too.
SHIFT3
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 11:51 AM CDT
Retreating now penalizes your TM?
I did this one around 60 with relative ease. It just takes a while and a little bit of luck and overtraining reflex, agility, and magics in general. Use SOL, MAPP, MPP, PFE, Bene, PS, Horn or HH, and tactics. It helps to have a few sorcery spells like TM boosters or MAF.
KAELRX
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 11:56 AM CDT
It didn't use to, now it does if I remember correctly. Was that before the retreating mechanics changed?
BADGOPHER
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 12:25 PM CDT
Remember that when MF/etc. were designed and released the 'teaching' skill existed. And Clerics had a hard requirement.
It really wasn't that uncommon to see someone have every skill except teaching for 10-20 levels.
It really wasn't that uncommon to see someone have every skill except teaching for 10-20 levels.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 12:42 PM CDT
>>retreating was the norm for it but that now penalizes your TM
In my own experiences, the penalty isn't that severe. Also, don't forget that you have tools to make them go away from you, as opposed to retreating (unless Halo doesn't work there?)
>>you need something like 300 evasion to evade those undead. I mean if it was even remotely close in level to the requirement (50th) it'd make SOME sense.
A lot of players don't just train for circle reqs. Sometimes someone might have the combats for someone twice their size because they don't focus on lore that much, or they have tons of lore and magic but no combats. Etc.
>>And I mean really? Heirophants (600-700) at 30th level is a bit obscene too.
Aren't you supposed to just run past those?
I sympathize with wanting to finish a quest right when you get it, but I don't think the solution is going to be "the quest is easier" as much as it would be "you now have to be a higher circle to try the quest"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
In my own experiences, the penalty isn't that severe. Also, don't forget that you have tools to make them go away from you, as opposed to retreating (unless Halo doesn't work there?)
>>you need something like 300 evasion to evade those undead. I mean if it was even remotely close in level to the requirement (50th) it'd make SOME sense.
A lot of players don't just train for circle reqs. Sometimes someone might have the combats for someone twice their size because they don't focus on lore that much, or they have tons of lore and magic but no combats. Etc.
>>And I mean really? Heirophants (600-700) at 30th level is a bit obscene too.
Aren't you supposed to just run past those?
I sympathize with wanting to finish a quest right when you get it, but I don't think the solution is going to be "the quest is easier" as much as it would be "you now have to be a higher circle to try the quest"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
MOTHRA
Re: Quests in General
08/08/2017 02:02 PM CDT
>So is it just me or are quests in DR generally just meant to be a super punishing time for the level you're able to actually do them? I mean look at Infuse, Rezz, MF, and generally anything for Moon Mages (cantrips included). Is this intended?
Yes. If you were required to have the stats and skills to easily accomplish them they wouldn't be much of a quest. Anecdotally I've just been pushing cleric quests off for 10 circles and while still a challenge they don't usually end in my death.
There are a good number of options to buff your TM for MF: tm mastery magical feat, alignment options, ToTRS, +discipline.
Moon Mage stuff is just thematically punishing. Sadism is flavor text.
Yes. If you were required to have the stats and skills to easily accomplish them they wouldn't be much of a quest. Anecdotally I've just been pushing cleric quests off for 10 circles and while still a challenge they don't usually end in my death.
There are a good number of options to buff your TM for MF: tm mastery magical feat, alignment options, ToTRS, +discipline.
Moon Mage stuff is just thematically punishing. Sadism is flavor text.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Quests in General
08/09/2017 07:38 AM CDT
I used SoL and some finagling with picking up and putting down the triptych pieces in between killing. Was able to do it relatively 'easily' at circle 56.
GABELA
Re: Quests in General
08/09/2017 09:56 AM CDT
I believe when the Infusion, Rezz, and MF quests were designed, it was before the combat/critter overhaul that was done.
Please correct me if I'm wrong?
~Gab
Please correct me if I'm wrong?
~Gab
BADGOPHER
Re: Quests in General
08/09/2017 01:03 PM CDT
You're wrong.
They were designed before that, but the difficulty didn't change from 'can do at level 30' to 'can do at level 70' for the enemies in question. They might have moved 1-5 levels.
They were designed before that, but the difficulty didn't change from 'can do at level 30' to 'can do at level 70' for the enemies in question. They might have moved 1-5 levels.
GABELA
Re: Quests in General
08/10/2017 08:07 AM CDT
>You're wrong.
I became curious, so I logged in my toon from so many years ago - I retired her shortly after completing the rezz quest. She soloed that quest way back when....and while killimg the Hierophants (currently 650-700) was not an easy task, she WAS able to kill them.
Looking at her pitiful stats (below), there is no way I would attempt to take her in that area today. Nor do I believe she could come close to touching them.
Something has changed from when that quest was designed.
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Shield Usage: 179 84% clear (0/34) Light Armor: 261 23% clear (0/34)
Chain Armor: 109 54% clear (0/34) Brigandine: 150 70% clear (0/34)
Plate Armor: 4 69% clear (0/34) Defending: 286 52% clear (0/34)
Parry Ability: 295 23% clear (0/34) Small Edged: 107 94% clear (0/34)
Large Edged: 308 30% clear (0/34) Twohanded Edged: 15 60% clear (0/34)
Small Blunt: 6 31% clear (0/34) Large Blunt: 36 50% clear (0/34)
Evasion: 282 86% clear (0/34) Athletics: 186 90% clear (0/34)
Holy Magic: 585 84% clear (0/34) Attunement: 512 06% clear (0/34)
Arcana: 525 40% clear (0/34) Targeted Magic: 322 61% clear (0/34)
Augmentation: 518 85% clear (0/34) Debilitation: 456 64% clear (0/34)
Utility: 436 00% clear (0/34) Warding: 409 04% clear (0/34)
~Gab
I became curious, so I logged in my toon from so many years ago - I retired her shortly after completing the rezz quest. She soloed that quest way back when....and while killimg the Hierophants (currently 650-700) was not an easy task, she WAS able to kill them.
Looking at her pitiful stats (below), there is no way I would attempt to take her in that area today. Nor do I believe she could come close to touching them.
Something has changed from when that quest was designed.
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate Fraction
Shield Usage: 179 84% clear (0/34) Light Armor: 261 23% clear (0/34)
Chain Armor: 109 54% clear (0/34) Brigandine: 150 70% clear (0/34)
Plate Armor: 4 69% clear (0/34) Defending: 286 52% clear (0/34)
Parry Ability: 295 23% clear (0/34) Small Edged: 107 94% clear (0/34)
Large Edged: 308 30% clear (0/34) Twohanded Edged: 15 60% clear (0/34)
Small Blunt: 6 31% clear (0/34) Large Blunt: 36 50% clear (0/34)
Evasion: 282 86% clear (0/34) Athletics: 186 90% clear (0/34)
Holy Magic: 585 84% clear (0/34) Attunement: 512 06% clear (0/34)
Arcana: 525 40% clear (0/34) Targeted Magic: 322 61% clear (0/34)
Augmentation: 518 85% clear (0/34) Debilitation: 456 64% clear (0/34)
Utility: 436 00% clear (0/34) Warding: 409 04% clear (0/34)
~Gab
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Quests in General
08/10/2017 08:33 AM CDT
I soloed the MF quest a few weeks ago with these ranks + TM Mastery and TM Alignment:
Evasion: 186 00.48% clear (0/34)
Shield Usage: 174 54.70% clear (0/34)
Targeted Magic: 212 62.08% clear (0/34)
The trick was casting SOL to put a large shield in my hand then spamming (low mana casts, the epedia stuff about needing high mana seems outdated) HH to kill the mobs. Drop the shield, pick up a triptych piece, place it then back to SOL and more combat.
I soloed the REZZ quest a couple of months ago with lower ranks. The trick was running through the Hierophants, not engaging, until the room with the teleportation circle was empty of mobs.
Evasion: 186 00.48% clear (0/34)
Shield Usage: 174 54.70% clear (0/34)
Targeted Magic: 212 62.08% clear (0/34)
The trick was casting SOL to put a large shield in my hand then spamming (low mana casts, the epedia stuff about needing high mana seems outdated) HH to kill the mobs. Drop the shield, pick up a triptych piece, place it then back to SOL and more combat.
I soloed the REZZ quest a couple of months ago with lower ranks. The trick was running through the Hierophants, not engaging, until the room with the teleportation circle was empty of mobs.
SHIFT3
Re: Quests in General
08/10/2017 08:41 AM CDT
> HH to kill the mobs.
This is the key right here. HH is the absolute best TM spell in the game for mass-murdering undead.
MOTHRA
Re: Quests in General
08/10/2017 12:52 PM CDT
Mind if I paste your skills and quest tips to the talk page for the MF quest walkthrough APATHETICSMILE?
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Quests in General
08/10/2017 01:04 PM CDT
>>Mind if I paste your skills and quest tips to the talk page for the MF quest walkthrough APATHETICSMILE?
Not at all. Here are my cleric's stats as well:
Strength : 34 Reflex : 31
Agility : 31 Charisma : 30
Discipline : 33 Wisdom : 30
Intelligence : 25 Stamina : 37 +2
Concentration : 386 + Max : 386
Not at all. Here are my cleric's stats as well:
Strength : 34 Reflex : 31
Agility : 31 Charisma : 30
Discipline : 33 Wisdom : 30
Intelligence : 25 Stamina : 37 +2
Concentration : 386 + Max : 386
RABB
Re: Quests in General
08/14/2017 08:01 AM CDT
i finished the rezz quest (2nd time) right when it got rereleased, and the mf quest in 2007ish. at the time, i had no chance in Rezz but Redarch and a ranger i forgot drug me through the area. MF i solod at around 180 TM without harm horde or enchantments. my stats at the time would skew this conversation, but i died no less than 10 times on MF. LOVED IT. wish i could do it again.
fyi i came back after 8 years gone, i have been trying to get to the rezz altar again for a pilgrims badge and still cant manage the area alone unbuffed.
fyi i came back after 8 years gone, i have been trying to get to the rezz altar again for a pilgrims badge and still cant manage the area alone unbuffed.
MOTHRA
Re: Quests in General
08/14/2017 01:01 PM CDT
>i have been trying to get to the rezz altar again for a pilgrims badge and still cant manage the area alone unbuffed.
There's a little luck and timing involved but if you run away from the spot you have to stand and let hierophants spawn to the cap and then run back you have more time to stand around while creature AI finds you again. This doesn't work as well if someone is hunting down there. It's a lot like the MM face cantrip in armadillos. Critter kiting makes it a lot simpler. Soloing it is preferable (if you don't have someone along that can nuke hierophants) because you don't have the additional spawn to dodge generated by another PC.
There's a little luck and timing involved but if you run away from the spot you have to stand and let hierophants spawn to the cap and then run back you have more time to stand around while creature AI finds you again. This doesn't work as well if someone is hunting down there. It's a lot like the MM face cantrip in armadillos. Critter kiting makes it a lot simpler. Soloing it is preferable (if you don't have someone along that can nuke hierophants) because you don't have the additional spawn to dodge generated by another PC.
RABB
Re: Quests in General
08/14/2017 03:48 PM CDT
i can dance now, i just still cant climb. haha. stupid rope bridge!
