I'm convinced Theurgy has to be the worst skill in the game.

Consider:
* Communes require an assortment of reagents to pull off. These act as a secondary resource.
* Many of these reagents deal directly with clunky systems (fires, liquids)
* There is a small gold cost associated with many of these reagents.
* There's a timer on Communes as a whole.
* There is a second timer on individual communes.
* There's a timer on every single skill used to generate a third resource (fourth if you count gold).
* Raising this resource requires frequent travel to specific locations.
* The alternate form of raising this resource (if you kill quickly) is to use a specific commune and perform last rites.
* This means you can't hunt undead unless you're willing to tank your third resource.
* The entire system is more of a pain than fun.

Suggestions (any or all):
* Make a resource pouch. It has x charges. You get <item> from pouch to take away a charge and get your single use reagent. It can contain ANYTHING that is used in a ritual.
* Increase theurgy gain for all rituals across the board.
* Remove the general commune timer. It's already limited by devotion, and each commune has their own timer. Who cares if someone locks quickly, they'll still have to raise their devotion to do it again.
* Give an alternate ritual to use on undead or increase the devotion gain from killing undead.
* Allow last rites on ground that has not been consecrated, or significantly reduce the devotion hit for meraud's commune.
* Ease up the restrictions. Reduce the timer on pilgrim's badges. Allow praying to multiple gods with each their own [short] timer (rather than a timer on prayer as a whole). Or better yet, remove the timer on prayer all together. Increase theurgy gain for all rituals across the board.
* Any ritual that requires large amounts of travel to specific spots should have a larger timer and offer a much larger reward.
* Casting beneficial spells should give theurgy experience. Resurection, soul bonding, and Rejuvination would be the best. Augmentation spells on others, bless would be good. TM spells on cursed/undead would give a small bump when it hits.

"I'm convinced Theurgy has to be the worst skill in the game."

I am not- I know of no other skill in the game that I can go from zero to 24/36 with 5 seconds Rt.


I agree with this- currently we can get a higher reward on devotion from living creatures-

* Give an alternate ritual to use on undead or increase the devotion gain from killing undead.

I agree with this too- there are several 'ritual locations' that frankly operate under the old system and do not reward the effort taken to do the ritual.

* Any ritual that requires large amounts of travel to specific spots should have a larger timer and offer a much larger reward.


Everything else- I think we are not getting more for less. I was irritated by Theurgy until I came to the realization that Communes we get experience upfront- and pay for that experience later. I am not finding it particularly onerous- but I will agree its easier now that Flavius is hunting living rather than undead- and that seems backward.

There are specific quirks that irritate me- like sacremantal wine not working for the wine ritual- only certain wine works.

From my perspective- Theurgy replaced teaching as Flavius's second skill needed to circle- I hate teaching with a passion- this is so far superior I just can't even express how I feel about it.

I am all in favor of tweaks to make communes and rituals work better- especially looking at something for the undead- probably tweak the devotion gained by killing them- but I want theurgy to remain as good as it is.

I'm not fond of theurgy, but I no longer absolutely loathe it.

Honestly, if we could remove the frankly idiotic material components requirements, I'd be thrilled. Start them all with 'commune X', remove the stupid fish-commune. Our devotion rituals retain the material items restriction because it makes some sense, and you can do a wide variety of things without them, but if you want to maz your gain, you'll spend time making beads, have wine, etc. Plus devotion rituals still take time, even if it's not always pure RT, it takes a minute or two to offer a bead or play a hymn, and everything and its mother has a timer on it.

The skill itself is tolerable. Do a merauds and hit 25th mindstate in one go. Then dance, recite, offer a bead, play a hymn. Do an eluned, then a tamsine, and you're at 34/34 probably. Stick 'pray god' on a repeating 5 minute loop, hit your badge every hour, and you'll probably have the devotion gained back by the time you drain down and want to use another commune.

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing the skill function more like summoning, or something, where you 'channel' the divine and accrue exp over time. It would still mean the devotion system would have to be rewritten.

This doesn't mean I think the skill is good, or that it's not burdensome to train compared to other guilds (I'm looking at you WMs and MMs). It's just not 'never play a cleric' terrible. And faint praise is about all I can give it.

My honest advice, if you find theurgy repugnant? Find another guild. Clerics got the 'iwin' button on magic in 3.0, but they also got the penalties for it in several ways.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

I'd never recommen re-rolling. You can deactivate a character from the 'go play' screen if you need to free up a slot, and then you can contact billing to have it re-activated. DR changes, so you might want to come back to him at some point.

Just roll a new toon, play around with some other guilds, figure out if you like them by getting to 20-30. Might show you that it's just a grass is greener syndrome, or might show you that you like a different guild. Personally, bards, barbs, and thieves, are my favorites in 3.0.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

I do gain Theurgy from resurrecting a dead person. It's not much, just dabbling, but it's there.

>There are specific quirks that irritate me- like sacremantal wine not working for the wine ritual- only certain wine works.

Eh? I SPECIFICALLY use sacramental wine, generally stolen from Riverhaven's shop to keep up with thirsty altars' demands for it, otherwise looted from critters

>From my perspective- Theurgy replaced teaching as Flavius's second skill needed to circle- I hate teaching with a passion- this is so far superior I just can't even express how I feel about it.

This. As a player of multiple Empaths, Clerics, and Moon Mages, Teaching SUCKED. The Scholarship/Teaching combine was the best thing ever. Even if MM and Empaths still retain high scholarship requirements respective of their original requirements in Scholarship and Teaching, respectively, it is nice to not be CHAINED to having to sit around teaching for the sake of teaching.

I would gladly take the trade of Theurgy requirements for losing Scholarship/Teaching any day of the week.

Kaeta Airtag

>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear

I believe sacrifice can only be done on living creatures.

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I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

<<What is SICK?>>

http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/SICK


Soul Sickness
(Redirected from SICK)

Cleric
Soul Sickness
Abbreviation: SICK
Prerequisites: Centering
Slot Cost: 2
Type: battle / debilitation
Difficulty: basic
Prep (min/max): 5 / 100
Valid Spell Target: PC, creatures
Description: Soul Sickness is the most elementary spell available to aspiring spiritual warriors. Rather than directly blast at the health of the soul, it creates a spiritual 'weight' to crush down on the victim.
Effect: Immobilizes and forces kneeling.
Example Messaging: You gesture at a grass eel.
Slippery as an eel, a spiritual tendril creeps into its soul, engendering a powerful sense of indecisiveness. The grass eel takes on an ill, brooding appearance.
It drops to its knees before you.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
Contest Type: spirit / willpower





THAT SPELL IS TIGHT YO

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Waiting for results..................................................................................................................

No

Sorry- had a brain freeze- I was thinking SICK was some other ritual.

I always forget about SICK.....now incorporating it into the general mayhem.

Never noticed that before. That is odd.

>Use COMMUNE SENSE to see if you are under the commune reuse timer, the commune experience timer, or both. The experience timer for Eluned's and Tamsine's is about 20 minutes. (Others are likely the same, just haven't tested it completely yet).

This, there's a generic commune timer which won't allow the use of another commune until its up. There's messaging along the lines of. "You are prepared to seek the assistance of the Immortals once again." Or something similar. It's variable and decreases based on Theurgy skill and the actual commune you're doing. As you gain more Theurgy it's as low as a second on Eluneds, Merauds takes a little bit longer. I haven't timed that one lately. On top of that you have commune EXP timers like Gent mentioned. Eluned and Tamsine are 20 minutes, Merauds is based on skill. There's no messaging for Eluned or Tamsine unless you commune sense, Merauds messages when it falls out of the room so you can reuse it at that point. Merauds duration is based on Theurgy
Skill. Eluned and Tamsine are always 20 I believe.

>Use COMMUNE SENSE to see if you are under the commune reuse timer, the commune experience timer, or both. The experience timer for Eluned's and Tamsine's is about 20 minutes. (Others are likely the same, just haven't tested it completely yet).

>This, there's a generic commune timer which won't allow the use of another commune until its up. There's messaging along the lines of. "You are prepared to seek the assistance of the Immortals once again." Or something similar.

Likewise, it will tell you which commune you used and if you are able to use it.

Look for lines like:
Eluned's waters are still fresh in your mind.
Meraud's power still holds your attention.
Tasmine's last hairball is still grossing you out.

Okay, that last one wasn't real. But the rest are.

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What are you worried about, a pool of black shadows might jump up and bite you?

How do you train Theurgy at level 1? I don't have any communes to practice. So far I've found praying once every 5 minutes moves it a little. Cleaning an altar moves it a little too. But I'm not even at rank 5 yet after 30 minutes of play.

I'm going down the list. I'm at 4 56% after 45 minutes now. Never got about 1/34.

Yeah. I think rituals should probably be buffed a bit. Ricinus has said that Rituals are supposed to be a tiny amount with Communes being the flood of exp or something to that affect, but I don't think spamming rituals getting you up to 3/34 or something would be unacceptable.

However, once you hit 2nd circle you'll get Tamsine's Commune and from that point on, you can sprinkle holy water on yourself and commune once every 20 minutes or so and be set.

It's just the first circle that's such a pain really. Third circle gives you Eluned's commune which allows you to make holy water.

Then you just have to find the balance between Theurgy learning and Devotion.

>You must mean water. I go through roughly 4 times the holy water as I do incense from carving bead blocks and the occasional altar washing and the water used in Meraud's.

I don't really have an issue with water. I can always use Eluned's to make some if I run out. Can't conjure up incense. Yet.

I haven't actually planted a Sirese seed in years, possibly an actual decade, but I understand it's a great teacher. The harder rituals train better. I'd forgotten that.

So anything that can be done in the Crossing cleric chapel is going to teach poorly, but the rituals that you have to travel for or risk yourself in combat etc. should be better.

Yeah the Sirese Seed ritual is a good mover- I think similar in effect to bathing- and its actually easier in Riverhaven than Crossing. But Crossing should be easier to find a cleric willing to teach you some Theurgy- just gweth and eventually a cleric will respond.

If you can afford it, see if you can buy a prayer badge- I think that adding shrines to the badge gives good devotion- and should teach theurgy- but maybe not- its an old mechanism.

It does get better.