With Magic 3.0 it sounds like Clerics are going to get a major nerf bat to the face, particularly along the lines of Harness, held mana and Infusion. Please assure me this isn't so :(


~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."

BAT!

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SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.

>>With Magic 3.0 it sounds like Clerics are going to get a major nerf bat to the face, particularly along the lines of Harness, held mana and Infusion. Please assure me this isn't so :(

Nerfed? No, not really. Clerics won't be sacrificing any actual performance.

The nerf is theoreticsl; Z said he was in talks with Grejuva to make sure Clerics somehow excel in these areas.

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"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer

<<The nerf is theoreticsl; Z said he was in talks with Grejuva to make sure Clerics somehow excel in these areas.

Here's my entirely self-serving semi-serious suggestion: (salliteration!)

Allow clerics to use two held mana spells via one normally cast one and one in their orb. Then tap Bards into the same code to allow them to play two enchantes via their voice and an instrument.

Or just skip the clerics altogether and give bards dual enchantes. Thanks!

-Evran

* Prophet Hotoke Fuku-Nyorai snuck out of the shadow he was hiding in.

The whole system is theoretical. We have no details on anything.

When I point blank asked Z about clerics and OM he said he and Grejuvy were working on a solution.

If you can't trust the current crop of GMs so much that you drop a duece just at the news of change, you probably need to stop playing DR for a while.

Because out of any time in DRs history, I can't think of more sane, reasonable, crazy, creative, and awesome GMs as a whole than we have now.

<<Clerics can hold tons of spells in their orb, not just one. THAT would be an actual nerf.

Not if the held mana spells are condensed to cover more than one effect and be more powerful than "esoteric." The omg nerf people seem to have 'missed' that part of Z's post.

-Evran

* Prophet Hotoke Fuku-Nyorai snuck out of the shadow he was hiding in.

>>Sounds to me like we're going to be losing our harness/held mana specialty (to Bards in particular). Would really loved to be dissuaded otherwise. Right now I'm not seeing anything from Z or Armifer's posts to do so.

Nerf means something's power is literally down-tweaked. BMR is being nerfed at the upper end; the Cleric specialty for harness and putting many held-mana spells into the orb will not be quite as unique upon these changes but there will be no actual difference in quality of performance.

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"I hate you so much right now." -GM Armifer

>>Nerf means something's power is literally down-tweaked. BMR is being nerfed at the upper end; the Cleric specialty for harness and putting many held-mana spells into the orb will not be quite as unique upon these changes but there will be no actual difference in quality of performance.

If we're talking about only being able to put one spell in the orb I would say that if you're used to having Centering, SoL, CoE, ect in the orb at the same time then they change it so you can only have one of those in the orb at a time, that would be a nerf.

>>If you can't trust the current crop of GMs so much that you drop a duece just at the news of change, you probably need to stop playing DR for a while.

That's rich coming from you of all people.

>>Not if the held mana spells are condensed to cover more than one effect and be more powerful than "esoteric." The omg nerf people seem to have 'missed' that part of Z's post.

No, and that sounds great, I just don't understand why the shift in focus has gone from Clerics to Bards. I guess it also seems a little bananas if they're going to have a spellbook of almost all Esoteric+++ spells/enchantes/etc. I suppose this is one of those things that's going to have to wait for more specifics.

>>I wish people would chillax and at least wait until there is more information instead of freaking out about the sky falling, especially when Armifer and Z and the rest have not done anything but do right by the players over the past half a decade.

Coming from playing mostly Magic tert guilds at the time of the TM change I can't really agree with the above statement. I do think they're doing what they think is best for the good of the game, though.

>>Nerf means something's power is literally down-tweaked. BMR is being nerfed at the upper end; the Cleric specialty for harness and putting many held-mana spells into the orb will not be quite as unique upon these changes but there will be no actual difference in quality of performance.

You're missing the forest for the trees; if Bards are now going to be "the best" at held mana when it was previously Clerics how is that not a nerf to Clerics?

~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2v5WTOH8_A

No, seriously though - Evran has it right.

It isn't that Bards are taking the Cleric area over, it's that the Clerical area as we know it (held mana spells) are going away and everyone is gaining "Enchantes" instead and Bards are getting some normal spells.

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SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.

>>Umm, dude? Who said this was going to happen? No one said they were going to touch Osrel Meraud.

No GM said it but Evran said this "Allow clerics to use two held mana spells via one normally cast one and one in their orb."

>>Bards will have a higher QUANTITY of held-mana spells, but I think tha having the ability to have 5+ held mana spells going at one time via OM will make Clerics the best at held mana.

This and, assuming no drastic change is made to OM, no immediate and continuous mana loss* from using a held mana spell in the orb will make it superior to even bards.

*Meaning we'll still have to charge the orb but it won't be constantly draining mana like other held mana spells.

>Look... I'm not trying to attack you personally; I understand, I think, the reasoning behind your points, but you're misusing both the word nerf and the expression "forest for the trees." Clerics are not getting nerfed; maybe you think that their guild specialty is being stepped on, but in order for Cleric spells to get nerfed, they have to be um, CHANGED, somehow, and OM has not yet been mentioned as undergoing a revamp.

What are you going on about? I never anywhere said I thought Cleric spells were going to get nerfed. Heck I haven't mentioned spells until now. Where are you getting that from? I have been discussing the Cleric specialty of harness, however, and hence you are missing the forest (Cleric harness specialty and by extension held mana/infusion) for the trees (what, if anything, is going to happen to individual Cleric spells and your hair-splitting of the definition of nerf). If you want to nerdrage over my somewhat tongue in cheek usage of "getting a major nerf bat to the face," then I suggest we roll 2d20 to see who wins.

>>Bards will have a higher QUANTITY of held-mana spells, but I think tha having the ability to have 5+ held mana spells going at one time via OM will make Clerics the best at held mana.

See, that would be nice, but it's not what I'm getting from: "We are going to change Bardic Enchantes and Held Mana to the same type of spell, that works basically exactly as Enchantes do now. A spell that takes effect and has a recurring power cost, and only one can be utilized at any given time. Bardic spells of this style will remain the best as the thematic thrust of their guild will stay primarily on enchantes."

If that means 5 spells in OM = 1 enchante then cool I guess.

>>We have 3 massive changes comming: Magic, lore, combat. I am going to wait and see how they pan out after release before I commence screaming.

Understandable, but I'd rather voice my opinions and concerns while they're still planning it rather than after they're done and have moved on to the next system. If that makes me the new fool then so be it.


~Thilan
"To be honest, my son, the practice of Holy magic is really just reckless tampering with one's soul."