I know this is not the best forum to post this under, but I can't find out an exact yes/no to the last question I have to be caught up...
on the experience bonus pool,
Your Armor pool could fill one empty skill to 121 ranks.
Your Weapon pool could fill one empty skill to 11 ranks.
Your Magic pool could fill 1 empty skill to 200 ranks and one empty skill to 152 ranks.
Your Survival pool could fill one empty skill to 97 ranks.
Your Lore pool could fill one empty skill to 188 ranks.
If I understand correctly, in Magic for example, it will take a magic that I have at 198 ranks and boost it to 200 ranks. Regarding the "to 152" ranks, it won't matter because my lowest magic anyway was 198 ranks. So is there a benefit to shifting augmentation / utility / warding / debilitation, down below 200, say to 100, (adding 100 ranks to another type of magic), and then making the switched one back to 152? Effectly losing 50 ranks in whichever one I find least useful for the spells I want. Thoughts?
RABB
MOTHRA
Re: experience bonuses
06/07/2017 02:33 PM CDT
EXP Switch and EXP bonus pools are 2 different things.
From https://elanthipedia.play.net/Experience#Bonus_experience_pools :
"...During experience 3.0, when skills were combined, the "lost" experience bits were moved into the bonus pools, one for each skillset. When experience is absorbed through the normal method, an equal amount is removed from the appropriate bonus pool and added to permanent experience. This effectively doubles learning rates in the skillset so long as experience remains in the bonus pools.
The metric used is an arbitrary unit, a multiple of the amount of bits that it takes to move a skill from 0 to 200 (60,300 bits) plus the number of ranks any remaining bits would teach..."
You can leave your EXP BONUS pools turned on and enjoy automatic increased experience gain and increased experience drain for any skill in those skillsets until you've gained the equivalence of the 'experience bits' it would take to gain that many real ranks or you can turn your EXP BONUS pools off and only turn them ON to apply them more strategically to skills you struggle with (in those skillsets).
to say it a different way:
In your example, you could take a magic skill you have zero ranks in (sorcery for example) and the amount of bits of experience it would take to gain 0 to 200 ranks of sorcery will be applied to all magic skills as you're training them (and as long as you have that bonus pool turned on). If you leave it on, and train all your magic skills equally, they'll all get a learning increase (a lot like an RPA boost) until you've absorbed the equivalence of 200 ranks worth of exp bits.
This chart on the experience page explains experience 'bits' that make up skill ranks:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Experience#Ranks
For EXP SWITCH, just make sure your debilitation and targetted magic (you can't switch TM but you could switch another ur-magic skill that's closer to your targeted magic skill with debilitation) are relatively close to your primary weapon skill. You want this because debiltiation and TM are trained like weapons - on targets that challenge your skill. If those skills are far under your primary weapon it'll be tough to train Debil/TM because you won't be landing spells or winning contests much. If those skills are far over your primary weapon your targets won't be of sufficient challenge to teach you. It's not the end of the world if this happens, it just means you'll need multiple hunting grounds to train your various skills.
If your debilitation and targeted magic are already within ~50 ranks of each other you probably don't need to use EXP SWITCH. There's not much real benefit to shifting any other magics other than debilitation.
From https://elanthipedia.play.net/Experience#Bonus_experience_pools :
"...During experience 3.0, when skills were combined, the "lost" experience bits were moved into the bonus pools, one for each skillset. When experience is absorbed through the normal method, an equal amount is removed from the appropriate bonus pool and added to permanent experience. This effectively doubles learning rates in the skillset so long as experience remains in the bonus pools.
The metric used is an arbitrary unit, a multiple of the amount of bits that it takes to move a skill from 0 to 200 (60,300 bits) plus the number of ranks any remaining bits would teach..."
You can leave your EXP BONUS pools turned on and enjoy automatic increased experience gain and increased experience drain for any skill in those skillsets until you've gained the equivalence of the 'experience bits' it would take to gain that many real ranks or you can turn your EXP BONUS pools off and only turn them ON to apply them more strategically to skills you struggle with (in those skillsets).
to say it a different way:
In your example, you could take a magic skill you have zero ranks in (sorcery for example) and the amount of bits of experience it would take to gain 0 to 200 ranks of sorcery will be applied to all magic skills as you're training them (and as long as you have that bonus pool turned on). If you leave it on, and train all your magic skills equally, they'll all get a learning increase (a lot like an RPA boost) until you've absorbed the equivalence of 200 ranks worth of exp bits.
This chart on the experience page explains experience 'bits' that make up skill ranks:
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Experience#Ranks
For EXP SWITCH, just make sure your debilitation and targetted magic (you can't switch TM but you could switch another ur-magic skill that's closer to your targeted magic skill with debilitation) are relatively close to your primary weapon skill. You want this because debiltiation and TM are trained like weapons - on targets that challenge your skill. If those skills are far under your primary weapon it'll be tough to train Debil/TM because you won't be landing spells or winning contests much. If those skills are far over your primary weapon your targets won't be of sufficient challenge to teach you. It's not the end of the world if this happens, it just means you'll need multiple hunting grounds to train your various skills.
If your debilitation and targeted magic are already within ~50 ranks of each other you probably don't need to use EXP SWITCH. There's not much real benefit to shifting any other magics other than debilitation.
ILLIENA
Re: experience bonuses
06/07/2017 08:31 PM CDT
> This chart on the experience page explains experience 'bits' that make up skill ranks:
That chart is wrong. It's based on convert, and we were explicitly told that convert does not work based on bits (see: http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/DragonRealms/DragonRealms%203.0/General%20Discussions/thread/1506942). (Also, analysis of convert could only give you values up to a constant multiple, anyway.)
That chart is wrong. It's based on convert, and we were explicitly told that convert does not work based on bits (see: http://www.tinyheroes.com/forums/DragonRealms/DragonRealms%203.0/General%20Discussions/thread/1506942). (Also, analysis of convert could only give you values up to a constant multiple, anyway.)
RY4NPW
Re: experience bonuses
08/01/2017 04:30 PM CDT
>>ILLIENA: It's based on convert, and we were explicitly told that convert does not work based on bits
The word "bit" on elanthipedia does not necessarily mean the same "bit" that was talked about in the thread you linked. The elanthipedia math does work very well for figuring out EXP BONUS pools and CONVERT results, the math is explained on the https://elanthipedia.play.net/Talk:Convert_command page.
>>RABB: I know this is not the best forum to post this under, but I can't find out an exact yes/no to the last question I have to be caught up...
Here's a simple online calculator: https://jsfiddle.net/padhg/w0cmfy7p/embedded/result/
As an example "Your Magic pool could fill 1 empty skill to 200 ranks and one empty skill to 152 ranks." is the same amount of work to go from 0 to 293 ranks. You can get that result by putting in 200 and 152 into the CONVERT calculator.
If you had the EXP BONUS on and trained just Attunement from 0-293, you'd end up with 467 Attunement and an empty bonus pool. You can get that result by putting in 293 and 293 into the calculator above.
The word "bit" on elanthipedia does not necessarily mean the same "bit" that was talked about in the thread you linked. The elanthipedia math does work very well for figuring out EXP BONUS pools and CONVERT results, the math is explained on the https://elanthipedia.play.net/Talk:Convert_command page.
>>RABB: I know this is not the best forum to post this under, but I can't find out an exact yes/no to the last question I have to be caught up...
Here's a simple online calculator: https://jsfiddle.net/padhg/w0cmfy7p/embedded/result/
As an example "Your Magic pool could fill 1 empty skill to 200 ranks and one empty skill to 152 ranks." is the same amount of work to go from 0 to 293 ranks. You can get that result by putting in 200 and 152 into the CONVERT calculator.
If you had the EXP BONUS on and trained just Attunement from 0-293, you'd end up with 467 Attunement and an empty bonus pool. You can get that result by putting in 293 and 293 into the calculator above.
ILLIENA
Re: experience bonuses
08/01/2017 06:00 PM CDT
> The word "bit" on elanthipedia does not necessarily mean the same "bit" that was talked about in the thread you linked.
Bits are a technical concept with an established meaning in the DR experience system. Repurposing the word to refer to something else is only going to cause confusion.
> The elanthipedia math does work very well for figuring out EXP BONUS pools and CONVERT results
If your formula for convert is also correctly predicting bonus pool use, it indicates that something we've been told about one of those is wrong. Either convert does run on bits, even though we were told directly that it doesn't, or bonus pools don't, even though we were told directly that they do.
I'm not in a position to test it, having no bonus pools left.
> the math is explained on the https://elanthipedia.play.net/Talk:Convert_command page.
Your code has a bug. Based on how you're later using it, bits(n) is intended to be the number of your-bits it takes to reach rank n from 0. That's sum_{i=0}^{n-1} 200+i, or in closed form 200n + n(n-1)/2. You've got it as sum_{i=0}^n 200+i.
Bits are a technical concept with an established meaning in the DR experience system. Repurposing the word to refer to something else is only going to cause confusion.
> The elanthipedia math does work very well for figuring out EXP BONUS pools and CONVERT results
If your formula for convert is also correctly predicting bonus pool use, it indicates that something we've been told about one of those is wrong. Either convert does run on bits, even though we were told directly that it doesn't, or bonus pools don't, even though we were told directly that they do.
I'm not in a position to test it, having no bonus pools left.
> the math is explained on the https://elanthipedia.play.net/Talk:Convert_command page.
Your code has a bug. Based on how you're later using it, bits(n) is intended to be the number of your-bits it takes to reach rank n from 0. That's sum_{i=0}^{n-1} 200+i, or in closed form 200n + n(n-1)/2. You've got it as sum_{i=0}^n 200+i.
RY4NPW
Re: experience bonuses
08/01/2017 09:09 PM CDT
>>ILLIENA: Your code has a bug.
If you mean the sample python code on the talk page, then yes, it should be range(n), not range(n+1). This bug was not carried over into the online calculator however when I redid the math instead of doing guess and test runs.
>>ILLIENA: If your formula for convert is also correctly predicting bonus pool use, it indicates that something we've been told about one of those is wrong.
The formula for CONVERT appears spot on.
The fact that the bonus pools use a "standard unit" of 200 ranks worth of experience plus a remainder implies bonus pools are using a model where "42 empty skills to 200 ranks" is 42 = totalBits / ranksToBits(200), and "one empty skill to 187 ranks" is 187 = bitsToRanks(totalBits % ranksToBits(200)). The exact formula for ranksToBits and bitsToRanks for EXP BONUS are unknown. We do know that behind the scenes is C integer math limited to + - * / % operators. There's a really good chance that the calculations for EXP BONUS are polynomial like CONVERT.
If you mean the sample python code on the talk page, then yes, it should be range(n), not range(n+1). This bug was not carried over into the online calculator however when I redid the math instead of doing guess and test runs.
>>ILLIENA: If your formula for convert is also correctly predicting bonus pool use, it indicates that something we've been told about one of those is wrong.
The formula for CONVERT appears spot on.
The fact that the bonus pools use a "standard unit" of 200 ranks worth of experience plus a remainder implies bonus pools are using a model where "42 empty skills to 200 ranks" is 42 = totalBits / ranksToBits(200), and "one empty skill to 187 ranks" is 187 = bitsToRanks(totalBits % ranksToBits(200)). The exact formula for ranksToBits and bitsToRanks for EXP BONUS are unknown. We do know that behind the scenes is C integer math limited to + - * / % operators. There's a really good chance that the calculations for EXP BONUS are polynomial like CONVERT.
