>> -Some spells will cost more than 1 spell slot (example given was Benediction (cleric), which boosts 3 stats costing 3 spell slots)
Seriously? Is this going to be the norm for every spell that does more than one thing? It seems a little silly. I heard some other things from the con like you can use spell slots to gain different abilities like casting faster but using up multiple spell slots for an existing spell, and a staple of Cleric magic, seems excessive to me.
All these changes I'm hearing about are rather worrisome and I wish we'd get some red posts soon because everything I'm hearing now doesn't sound very good.
FBC
LIURIDR
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 11:07 AM CDT
If I recall correctly, magic primes were going to be bumped up to gaining a spell slot per circle. Also, the talk of spell-casting feats is true as well.
FBC
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 11:16 AM CDT
>>If I recall correctly, magic primes were going to be bumped up to gaining a spell slot per circle.
If that's the case I can swallow it easier. Still think it's excessive but easier to swallow.
If that's the case I can swallow it easier. Still think it's excessive but easier to swallow.
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 12:29 PM CDT
>>Is this going to be the norm for every spell that does more than one thing?
Within reason, yes. Non-held spells that do 3+ things well will generally be split, but Benediction is staying together for thematic reasons, with the proper cost. PFE and Vigil will likely be split.
GM Grejuva
Within reason, yes. Non-held spells that do 3+ things well will generally be split, but Benediction is staying together for thematic reasons, with the proper cost. PFE and Vigil will likely be split.
GM Grejuva
FBC
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 12:34 PM CDT
What do you mean by split? We'll have a spell that boosts spirit and a spell that increases charisma? (for Vigil. Can you comment on the increased spell slots?
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 12:44 PM CDT
>>What do you mean by split? We'll have a spell that boosts spirit and a spell that increases charisma? (for Vigil.
Selfcast and link.
>>Can you comment on the increased spell slots?
Not finalized as far as I know.
GM Grejuva
Selfcast and link.
>>Can you comment on the increased spell slots?
Not finalized as far as I know.
GM Grejuva
TKTEMPEST
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 01:15 PM CDT
>PFE and Vigil will likely be split
I'm guessing we should prepare the homecoming for Multiple Rejuv, Ring of Blessings, et al.? It'll be bittersweet, that's for sure.
If the group cast utility of our current spells is planned to be stripped away my only hope is that those spells that exist only to benefit others are not prerequisites for anything of a different design.
I'm guessing we should prepare the homecoming for Multiple Rejuv, Ring of Blessings, et al.? It'll be bittersweet, that's for sure.
If the group cast utility of our current spells is planned to be stripped away my only hope is that those spells that exist only to benefit others are not prerequisites for anything of a different design.
ALDEN
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 02:07 PM CDT
Too early to be too worried yet, but the conservative side of me is wondering what the overall intended benefit for all of this is? And is this going to be rolled out in Test for extensive Testing prior to implementation?
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 02:42 PM CDT
>>If I recall correctly, magic primes were going to be bumped up to gaining a spell slot per circle.
Everyone is getting a bump up in slots. What we consider "a good spell" from design standpoint right now would cost 2 slots.
Most spells will cost 1-2 slots. Some spells will cost 0 or 3. There are currently no plans for 4+ slot spells.
>>Too early to be too worried yet, but the conservative side of me is wondering what the overall intended benefit for all of this is?
A better way to handle spells of differing scope.
Spell design is constrained when all spells have exactly the same cost, since conceptions for spells meander from things like Glythide's Gift and Focus Moonbeam, to incredibly elaborate spells like Benediction and Mantle of Flames. There should be an immediate, intuitive problem with charging exactly as much for GG as we do for Bene.
Over the past few years we've tried to deal with this problem with design rules, sometimes draconian and sometimes Byzantine. While we still wish to put emphasis on focused and useful spells, we will now have a much more direct way to account for modest or expansive outliers.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Everyone is getting a bump up in slots. What we consider "a good spell" from design standpoint right now would cost 2 slots.
Most spells will cost 1-2 slots. Some spells will cost 0 or 3. There are currently no plans for 4+ slot spells.
>>Too early to be too worried yet, but the conservative side of me is wondering what the overall intended benefit for all of this is?
A better way to handle spells of differing scope.
Spell design is constrained when all spells have exactly the same cost, since conceptions for spells meander from things like Glythide's Gift and Focus Moonbeam, to incredibly elaborate spells like Benediction and Mantle of Flames. There should be an immediate, intuitive problem with charging exactly as much for GG as we do for Bene.
Over the past few years we've tried to deal with this problem with design rules, sometimes draconian and sometimes Byzantine. While we still wish to put emphasis on focused and useful spells, we will now have a much more direct way to account for modest or expansive outliers.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
FBC
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 02:44 PM CDT
I suppose requiring more spell slots is better than nerfing a spell.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 02:44 PM CDT
>>I'm guessing we should prepare the homecoming for Multiple Rejuv, Ring of Blessings, et al.? It'll be bittersweet, that's for sure.
You're thinking of splitting down the wrong axis.
Vigil isn't getting split selfcast/link because of selfcast/other cast, but because those do two radically different things and you might want to do one exclusively. Splitting Vigil is entirely to your benefit.
PFE is not getting split across selfcast/othercast at all.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
You're thinking of splitting down the wrong axis.
Vigil isn't getting split selfcast/link because of selfcast/other cast, but because those do two radically different things and you might want to do one exclusively. Splitting Vigil is entirely to your benefit.
PFE is not getting split across selfcast/othercast at all.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
TEHNECRO
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/13/2010 03:43 PM CDT
This just in from Ditsworth's Floating Casino:
HARSAAAAAAH! Clerics are a winner!
No, really. 3 new magic skills to learn at a primary rate? Yes please. The TDP factory output that are lore and survival guilds that we could never hope to keep up with is finally getting a significant gap closed. Magic skills to defend against magic, instead of being defense tertiary for the rest of our lives, besides PARRY of all things?
Come now.
These changes look pretty good for game balance, and not even just from my aforementioned guild bias. This looks like it can streamline development for new abilities, and have a mass appeal to new players.
We have the best dev team right now that we have ever had, imho. Have some faith, Rishlu, and I imagine you'll see that you'll want to reactivate Strange eventually. ^_^
HARSAAAAAAH! Clerics are a winner!
No, really. 3 new magic skills to learn at a primary rate? Yes please. The TDP factory output that are lore and survival guilds that we could never hope to keep up with is finally getting a significant gap closed. Magic skills to defend against magic, instead of being defense tertiary for the rest of our lives, besides PARRY of all things?
Come now.
These changes look pretty good for game balance, and not even just from my aforementioned guild bias. This looks like it can streamline development for new abilities, and have a mass appeal to new players.
We have the best dev team right now that we have ever had, imho. Have some faith, Rishlu, and I imagine you'll see that you'll want to reactivate Strange eventually. ^_^
TKTEMPEST
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/14/2010 12:20 PM CDT
>Vigil isn't getting split selfcast/link because of selfcast/other cast, but because those do two radically different things and you might want to do one exclusively. Splitting Vigil is entirely to your benefit.
I think I could see where you were coming from if the two options were mutually exclusive right now, but they're not. We can do both of those things at the same time with Vigil in its current incarnation. So that's why I'm not getting how requiring two spells to do what one spell can do right now is beneficial. Unless the potency of the charisma boost is upgraded or something.
Speaking of which I think there's a bug in that. I get the same shop prices pre- and post-capped Vigil. I don't see why shop prices wouldn't be affected by the charisma boost.
I think I could see where you were coming from if the two options were mutually exclusive right now, but they're not. We can do both of those things at the same time with Vigil in its current incarnation. So that's why I'm not getting how requiring two spells to do what one spell can do right now is beneficial. Unless the potency of the charisma boost is upgraded or something.
Speaking of which I think there's a bug in that. I get the same shop prices pre- and post-capped Vigil. I don't see why shop prices wouldn't be affected by the charisma boost.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/14/2010 12:54 PM CDT
>>I think I could see where you were coming from if the two options were mutually exclusive right now, but they're not. We can do both of those things at the same time with Vigil in its current incarnation. So that's why I'm not getting how requiring two spells to do what one spell can do right now is beneficial.
A spell that vigil links + Charisma buffs costs 2 spell slots.
A spell that vigil links costs 1 spell slot.
A spell that buffs Charisma costs 1 spell slot.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
A spell that vigil links + Charisma buffs costs 2 spell slots.
A spell that vigil links costs 1 spell slot.
A spell that buffs Charisma costs 1 spell slot.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
DARPISECK
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/14/2010 03:34 PM CDT
>I think I could see where you were coming from if the two options were mutually exclusive right now, but they're not. We can do both of those things at the same time with Vigil in its current incarnation. So that's why I'm not getting how requiring two spells to do what one spell can do right now is beneficial.
The way I understand it, Vigil won't be splitting into two spells, it'll simply require 2 spell slots to acquire.. should pretty much come out about the same considering there will now be a spell slot every 1 or 2 circles instead of every 3 circles to 99th and every 5 post 100th.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
The way I understand it, Vigil won't be splitting into two spells, it'll simply require 2 spell slots to acquire.. should pretty much come out about the same considering there will now be a spell slot every 1 or 2 circles instead of every 3 circles to 99th and every 5 post 100th.
Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia
"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
07/16/2010 08:36 PM CDT
>>So that's why I'm not getting how requiring two spells to do what one spell can do right now is beneficial.
Some of the spells are getting split, but we are getting more spell slots as compensation. The cost to achieve the same functionality of some spells will be going up, but the value of one slot will be going down.
1 + 0 = 1
0.5 + 0.5 = 1
You're getting the same result either way. I can sort of see your argument in that it does not benefit the player in every case, but neither is it to our detriment, so if the practical result is a much easier process of balancing spell cost then I say go for it.
Some of the spells are getting split, but we are getting more spell slots as compensation. The cost to achieve the same functionality of some spells will be going up, but the value of one slot will be going down.
1 + 0 = 1
0.5 + 0.5 = 1
You're getting the same result either way. I can sort of see your argument in that it does not benefit the player in every case, but neither is it to our detriment, so if the practical result is a much easier process of balancing spell cost then I say go for it.
STILVA
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
09/25/2010 04:21 PM CDT
Is slot usage going to effect how many you can Vigil at once, or will this remain wholly skill-dependant?
DR-GREJUVA
Re: Crosspost From Ranger Con update
09/25/2010 10:59 PM CDT
>>Is slot usage going to effect how many you can Vigil at once, or will this remain wholly skill-dependant?
I don't think that part is changing. And it's based on something other than skill.
GM Grejuva
I don't think that part is changing. And it's based on something other than skill.
GM Grejuva
