>That is your own opinion; they do not go hand-in-hand with each other. One does not have to go on the quest to circle; nor does one have to go on the MF quest to circle (and most would be really upset if that were the case). ~ Bambina

OK, I understand that. But if I see the spell as defining my cleric, I don't think that is wrong.

>You would be incorrect about my RP.
I appologize. In hind sight that was unfair. I should not have made guesses as to how you play Syralon.

>It had just been quite a while since someone made the implication that my character was not as worthy of being called a Cleric as most of my guildmates based on choices I've made.

I'm sorry again. I did not mean to imply that Your character was any less for not knowing Rezz. In Ninedra's eyes though she is not yet a full cleric because of it. It is why I see the spell as Defining the guild and Her.

>Good luck attaining some sort of legitimacy with your alt.
Thank you. It has been interesting trying to build her up. The goals I have for her have helped with this.

>Syralon
>Fake Cleric of Ushnish
Again, I stress I am sorry if I implied that Syralon was Fake. I didn't intend that at all.

~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>Perhaps some of your fantasy worlds do involve tingling when a porn star gently touches you, but I don't think that's the kind of fantasy Simu's going for. ~ Sefkowk

>I won't fault anyone for defining their own Clericdom by the ability to Resurrect, so long as it's a conscious choice and not some sort of peer pressure/acceptance/rationalization thing on their part.

Nindra was "around" well before I actually rolled her. She was part of Hanryu's backstory as just his sister. I decided to make her a cleric based on that same story. I struggled for some time to try and define who she would be, and particularly how exactly to separate her identity from Hanryu's persona. I'm not sure I've got it quite down yet, but I'm trying, and it is fun. She's not quite willing to accept that she can't impress everyone around her like she could "back home" and she struggles to balance her supposed nonchalance with the fact that she wants everyone to think she's the best thing since sliced bread. When deciding how she would behave within guild structure I wanted her to crave the approval of the guild leaders the same way Hanryu did, by a title (they were raised by the same parents afterall, they can't be totally different). Ninedra sees 30th circle and the Cleric title as a stamp of approval, and of course the 30th circle ability being all sought after and flash-bang and all fits nicely with her "I want everyone to think I'm cool but I don't want them to know I want that" attitude. When (if?) she gets there her reaction will probably be different from Hanryu's. While he saw the Ranger title as a license to go off and do his own thing and spread his crazy train everything style on others, Ninedra will probably feel that its not enough, that she'll want more more MORE! heh, Then again who knows, maybe she'll mature bit spiritually between now and then.

So I think after all that (which was fun to think about I must admit) I want to say we're in agreement. Which makes me glad, because I really do respect the way you handle Syralon, even if I know very little about the specifics.

~Ranger Hanryu, Sword of House Calibanor
>Perhaps some of your fantasy worlds do involve tingling when a porn star gently touches you, but I don't think that's the kind of fantasy Simu's going for. ~ Sefkowk

Because infusing mana into Rezz teaches wonderfully. Also it doesn't take a spell slot if I'm remembering right. Yet I do understand the entitlement issues that goes along with the spell.

Yet being from both sides of the point before. It's hard to read someone's mind at times and I think some of the issues that come up with entitlement, comes from someone's perception of the situation more then someone actually feeling entitled to it. I remember someone once said my Ranger had a issue with Entitlement, this was a cleric who had NEVER raised my Ranger but felt he was taking advantage of other clerics who were willing to raise. It became pretty clear that some people see things and read what someone says different ways.

On the other end i've had clerics get really upset or offended by me wanting to Depart, mostly because i didn't have time to wait for a Raise and with the circle difference, with 20 favors it takes most clerics a good deal of time to find my soul. If they're not above 50th circle.

My point is I don't really thing there is a true common sense of entitlement on everyone's part, of course there are a few who are like that, my Cleric has dealt with a few (very few) who feel YOU must raise them.

The Dragon priest hisses, "We'd have won, too, if it weren't for thossse meddling kidsss."
>

>On the other end i've had clerics get really upset or offended by me wanting to Depart, mostly because i didn't have time to wait for a Raise and with the circle difference, with 20 favors it takes most clerics a good deal of time to find my soul. If they're not above 50th circle.

Just want to point out, once more, that there is no direct correlation between circle and the ability to find a spirit. Indirectly, certain stats make a spirit more easily found, but circle does not. I have not done much direct testing on this, other than getting statistics from those I've raised along with the amount of mana needed to find the spirit, but the trend I've seen shows that characters with much higher discipline than charisma more difficult to locate, while those with charisma as one of their top "mentals" were the easiest.

>If we're going to define "real" Clerics, I simply look at whether or not the Cleric in question acts in a manner consistant with serving the Immortal(s) they've chosen. I wouldn't object at all to a Cleric of Alduath refusing to learn/use Resurrection if the reason they did so was consistant with the choices/RP they've made. If this same Alduath priest was a happy go lucky, giggling corpse monkey in the guild 24/7 raising the dead, I'd have serious reservations.

If you based it only on the Immortals Heroiklim serves, then you wouldn't consider him a "real" cleric. I understand your statement, and the spirit behind it, but often there is more to the picture. And of course, I'll give a "brief" explanation.

Heroiklim is the son of Zachier, a cleric of Urrem'tier. Zachier was the son of Heroiklim (my first character back on AoL, who sadly never made it past 24th circle), also a cleric of Urrem'tier, and the founder of the chapel where he, and Zachier after him, served the people of Therengia for 42 years. Heroiklim didn't become a priest at the age of 19 (when he stepped out of the character manager), he was born and raised as one. His mother, who taught him from an early age the art of unarmed combat, was killed by a black death spirit when he was 19, at which point he turned his back on Urrem'tier and dedicated his life to Faenella and the destruction of the cursed creatures in Elanthia. (Tangent: This initial choice of deity is why Heroiklim is on his best behavior and infatuated with female elves.)

During his early training under Esuin, Heroiklim learned more of both the martial and magical arts, but something drastic changed and his faith wavered (long story short, his father was murdered, leaving him and his sister orphans; many thanks to the players of Raidiant and Shalrin during this story arc, miss you both <3!). At the end of this emotional instability Heroiklim returned to Urrem'tier's cold embrace (thanks to Shalrin's persuasion), and incorporated a second deity into his worship: Dergati. He eventually found his father's murderer, and through emulation of his new matron deity, he sent the man to Urrem'tier's embrace across the starry road.

(It was shortly after this story arc ended that Heroiklim met a young female elf with red eyes in the Crossing guild, but that's a story for another time. Miss you Tils!)

Through the following years, Heroiklim eventually "transfered" his worship of Urrem'tier to Eylhaar, and picked up the third Immortal that makes up his triad, Kerenhappuch. Heroiklim will never refuse aid to a fallen spirit of his homeland, or his father's homeland, and once a year, he spends time in a random guild "rezz sitting" in memory of his parents who taught him the value of the gift of life.

Long way of saying, if you looked at just his gods (Eylhaar, Dergati, and Kerenhappuch), resurrection does not fit the portfolio, but it is the character's history that justifies the learning and use of resurrection and "guild sitting" for corpses.


Thrall of Dergati,
Heroiklim Zortal

---

Take these chances
Place them in a box until a quieter time
Lights down, you up and die

Charisma

---

You are Malkien, a dashing Barbarian. Huzzah!
You are Apis, a legendary Cleric in your own head.
You are Ragesong. What sort of Kaldar is a Bard, anyways, doofus?
You are also Pellazan (WM), Essatariol (Ranger) and running out of sig space.

I kill stuff, that's what I do. it's pretty simple and straightforward. Not the least interested in the faith of the masses. Murrula spares my arse, so I am hers, well mostly. Raising is a hobby and in that the process is all about me and not the dead thang laying there. I ain't much on ritual things, or visions, or anything like that. It's pretty basic, I figure if I kill all the unbeliening whackheads I can then I did my job. Hence the hatred for Dragon Patsies.

what spell would define me? Hmm, give me back CHS and that would probably be it. Or something like Smite Unbeliever Dead, yup that would do it for the Patsies in my life.

I ain't complicated nor conflicted or transformed or reborn, well cept for Murrula doing her thang.

Am I a real legitmate type cleric? Well, that's just a dumb question. Ain't worth the time it takes to contemplate it and stuff. Ya'll can worry 'bout your personal identity thang and rituals but when ya wanna know how to kill beasties nasty like, stop on by for tales of holy destruction incarnate.

Dragon Patsie Slayer Rience
Dragon Patsies must die!

A little late but...

>Part of it was simply that I did not wish to have Flavius identified once more as a resurrection cleric

People gweth for a Cleric while I am standing in the room. :preens:


Bambina

That has happened to me alot too PLUS I've been called "Sir" hehe.

-Entyycement

Mine rezzes if she feels like it, and usually only if people aren't asking for it because there's a lot more to Clerics than rezzing.

Too many people take rezzing for granted, perhaps the rezzers should go on strike!


Shadeau Moonith,
Player of.

--
(Drongol dislikes you.)

I used to be able to say, "I'm coming," on the gweth and everyone would know a raise was going to happen. I didn't have a title, back then. It's amazing how my empaths become your personal friend and how many people are willing to do you any favor in the world.

Ah well. Every golden age has its ending.


-- Holy Scholar Diarik Erasto, Arcane Researcher, in search of spiritweaving.
http://www.rangerrawb.com/wiki/index.php/User:Diarik
http://www.livejournal.com/users/pensive-spirit/

Don't let a spell define you. When I first joined the guild clerics were looked at as like empaths that could pray a lot almost. Over time THE GUILD HAS CHANGED. It changed because we the clerics stepped up and redefined our role play of what a cleric was. By the efforts of people like Crory, Lagerby, Shalade, Zytes, Flav, Smegul, Verbal and several other battle oriented clerics, the perception of clerics as spirit empaths got expanded HUGELY. Over time this became a part of in game events, story lines, plots and then the first battle oriented titles came out as a result of in game perceptions. It was really controversial at first. Now it is accepted. I was floored to see that a whole title had been made up in the guild as a result of clerics role play and fun and to see what level the title is and how it is respected from the GM's is nothing short of AWESOME.

SWAMP SHAMANS. It started as clerics having a great time RP'ing battle hardened front lines clerics. The Role play evolved into events and turned out to be the strongest undead fighting force ever seen. <YES WE DID LIVE UP TO THE LONG CRITIZED ROLE OF MASTERS OF UNDEAD SLAYING> The group never became an official group, we stayed a loose group of friends that accepted anyone basically that was interested in good roleplay and seriously played a cleric. As a player being part of player run events that turned into GM run events and becoming a force on the battle field that the GM's hand to plan for was HUGE fun within itself. To see the mark it has had on the guild and the way others see clerics is AWESOME. Don't worry about a spell defining you bro, Get what you want and have fun with it. I remember raising a dead guy with Lagerby, Crory, Shalade and Zytes all standing there pitching in, it was like one person preped the raise everyone else infused and the corpse poped up to its feet and was ready to get back to battle. No one called us wimps or empaths for it.

Just a feeble old swamp shaman

Hiya Cadds....

Swamp Shaman ya need 150 in foraging and some other battle stuff that's pretty strong. I don't know if I will ever get the 150 in foraging.. shrugs. I just hate learning the stupid skill these days.

Yea, the shamans.. smiles. When the evil/undead nasties come a calling no better group to get ahold of for help. Still appreciate ya all coming down to Shard for a lil Adan'f spanking.

Ya need to come down and do a lil shalswars and Dragon Patsie spanking with my honey and I sometime soon. I will be gone for a week but back end of next week some time.

The Bopper