I'm returning to DR after a long hiatus, and before that I had a Bard, so it's been YEARS since I've played a Cleric. Thinking of rolling one up and wanted to get a big picture update on how things have changed. I've been reading everything on the 3.0 update, but sometimes it's easy to miss the forest for the trees.
In general, is Cleric hunting still about climbing up the undead ladder with the best spells and abilities for undead hunting?
My understanding is that the cyclic spells can only have one up at a time, but this doesn't seem to be the strong side of the Cleric spellbook.
THETECHNOCRACY
SCHWARTZH6
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 08:08 AM CDT
I've never done things "appropriately" in regards to training my cleric, but I'll give you some thoughts based on my experience:
Clerics ARE great for hunting cursed and undead critters but they definitely don't have to be restricted to them. FF, HORN, and FOU (though that's high up the ladder and kind of hard to cast) work fine on living creatures, and teach fine too. FOU and FF are my two favorite spells for learning no matter what I'm hunting, or for just clearing a room when I'm bored and want boxes to pick or skins to scrape.
I was kind of confused at the point of cyclic spells too, but honestly, with hydra hex, I'm a convert. It affects the room therefore weakening all my opponents, teaches great, and doesn't use much mana. Even revelation as a cyclic spell has its advantages, even if it's just to be annoying and point out all the people hiding in front of the Crossing Empath's guild.
Theurgy is kind of meh, in my opinion. I don't mind learning it, since I used the communes before the change over (oh, how I miss Eluned's defense commune - can we have that back btw?), but I don't really understand the point. Do the communes become more powerful as theurgy progresses? Will I have more water in my vial or be a TM machine some day? If someone could answer as to its eventual usefulness I'd be grateful.
Anyway, that's kind of off topic. Way back when, the Cleric GM stated that clerics were designed for, have an advantage, and will always be better at fighting the undead, but I don't think that limits us. Instead, I think it expands our options. We can get into hunting areas that other guilds have a harder time accessing (Temple of the North Wind for example, or the Swamps with their poisonous fog and evil claws - cleric defense spells just make it another place to be), and we can choose where and what to hunt with hunting living creatures being sightly - really slightly IMHO - disadvantaged. Plus when there's a death spirit (or any undead) invasion in Crossing there's no need to find a cleric to bless a weapon. You can just gear up and dash out into the fight.
I will say that I believe some (if not most) of the defensive/protective spells a cleric has work better against the undead, and some have no use at all against the living, but if you train your cleric better than I trained mine, you probably won't care. Caelane is not well trained and I've never had a huge problem when MPP or PFE do nothing against a living creature. Benediction and MAPP are still awesome boots.
In conclusion; TM = not a problem though easier with undead.
Cyclic spells = fun
Theurgy = ???
Undead vs Living = minor differences that augment options rather than hinder
Defensive spells = pretty good
= Clerics are awesome.
(PS just FYI I've never played anything else to a high level. I always get bored and return to my cleric.)
Clerics ARE great for hunting cursed and undead critters but they definitely don't have to be restricted to them. FF, HORN, and FOU (though that's high up the ladder and kind of hard to cast) work fine on living creatures, and teach fine too. FOU and FF are my two favorite spells for learning no matter what I'm hunting, or for just clearing a room when I'm bored and want boxes to pick or skins to scrape.
I was kind of confused at the point of cyclic spells too, but honestly, with hydra hex, I'm a convert. It affects the room therefore weakening all my opponents, teaches great, and doesn't use much mana. Even revelation as a cyclic spell has its advantages, even if it's just to be annoying and point out all the people hiding in front of the Crossing Empath's guild.
Theurgy is kind of meh, in my opinion. I don't mind learning it, since I used the communes before the change over (oh, how I miss Eluned's defense commune - can we have that back btw?), but I don't really understand the point. Do the communes become more powerful as theurgy progresses? Will I have more water in my vial or be a TM machine some day? If someone could answer as to its eventual usefulness I'd be grateful.
Anyway, that's kind of off topic. Way back when, the Cleric GM stated that clerics were designed for, have an advantage, and will always be better at fighting the undead, but I don't think that limits us. Instead, I think it expands our options. We can get into hunting areas that other guilds have a harder time accessing (Temple of the North Wind for example, or the Swamps with their poisonous fog and evil claws - cleric defense spells just make it another place to be), and we can choose where and what to hunt with hunting living creatures being sightly - really slightly IMHO - disadvantaged. Plus when there's a death spirit (or any undead) invasion in Crossing there's no need to find a cleric to bless a weapon. You can just gear up and dash out into the fight.
I will say that I believe some (if not most) of the defensive/protective spells a cleric has work better against the undead, and some have no use at all against the living, but if you train your cleric better than I trained mine, you probably won't care. Caelane is not well trained and I've never had a huge problem when MPP or PFE do nothing against a living creature. Benediction and MAPP are still awesome boots.
In conclusion; TM = not a problem though easier with undead.
Cyclic spells = fun
Theurgy = ???
Undead vs Living = minor differences that augment options rather than hinder
Defensive spells = pretty good
= Clerics are awesome.
(PS just FYI I've never played anything else to a high level. I always get bored and return to my cleric.)
BICKFORDS3
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 11:17 AM CDT
To lend perspective, I've leveled Shai from 1-100 on the majority of Undead/Cursed mobs, all of which were skinnable, working 10 weapons and 4 armors. For RP purposes as well as mechanical. There are many, many facets to why the Immortals dislike undeath, most of which stem from a selfish desire to control it themselves.
Dergati believes anyone who creates a undead is urinating in Her sandbox and should be punished accordingly, for instance.
Tenemlor guards the afterlife of the Prydaen race and controls reincarnation of souls under Her care. Anyone who tampers with a Prydaen's soul earns Her wrath for good reason, yes?
Faenella ...well I'll let you sort it out further. ;)
Here is why I chose this:
PFE = A primary defense against Cursed/Evil targets. This makes us more durable in the regard of performing our sworn duty.
*Divine Radiance + Bless/Kertigen's Commune* = If you strike something with DR, which teaches TM I might add for doing so, then it has a chance to unbalance a mob or knock it prone. It also clings to it causing bonus damage when striking it with a blessed weapon. This means better learning/faster capability for martial destruction in regards to any Cursed/Undead mob.
*Auto Devotion* = 10 minute timer. Destroy a undead/cursed mob, get devotion. No hassle, no fuss.
*Harm Evil/Harm Horde* = I believe these do more damage than our "general" TM spells, but I can't confirm that. Raesh can!
It isn't necessary to hunt undeath/cursed creatures however, there are ways to gain devotion from murdering live targets. It renders PFE and all of our damage boosts useless, but hey. Do what'cha like.
As for cyclics, I typically utilize Hydra Hex in conjunction with Malediction when I transition into a new hunting area. When I stop learning Debilitation on the new mobs, I can safely swap over to Ghost Shroud and Resurrection swapping every 5 minutes to work Warding and Utility in combat without care or concern. It also keeps they mindlocked doing so.
Theurgy ceases to be any sort of a problem past 20th circle, at least through 108th. I use Meraud's Commune on my hunting room of choice, use Tamsine's commune and repeat as required for Theurgy drain.
The devotional gains that I use to stay at max devotion while doing so:
Undeath/cursed mob kill, every 10 minutes.
Prayer bead, every 10 minutes.
Recite, every 10 minutes.
Dance, every 10 minutes.
Pray, every 10 minutes.
Prayer Badge every 60 minutes.
Honestly, I'd say that Clerics, Bards, Empaths and Moon Mages all have mechanical things to entice you into playing them. It comes down to what you want to do and how you want to do it.
Usually when I observe people PvPing it is a problem with their stat assignment being much less than their opponent, and more often than not their opponent has higher skills than they were expecting. - Kodius
Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time. - Sun Tzu
Dergati believes anyone who creates a undead is urinating in Her sandbox and should be punished accordingly, for instance.
Tenemlor guards the afterlife of the Prydaen race and controls reincarnation of souls under Her care. Anyone who tampers with a Prydaen's soul earns Her wrath for good reason, yes?
Faenella ...well I'll let you sort it out further. ;)
Here is why I chose this:
PFE = A primary defense against Cursed/Evil targets. This makes us more durable in the regard of performing our sworn duty.
*Divine Radiance + Bless/Kertigen's Commune* = If you strike something with DR, which teaches TM I might add for doing so, then it has a chance to unbalance a mob or knock it prone. It also clings to it causing bonus damage when striking it with a blessed weapon. This means better learning/faster capability for martial destruction in regards to any Cursed/Undead mob.
*Auto Devotion* = 10 minute timer. Destroy a undead/cursed mob, get devotion. No hassle, no fuss.
*Harm Evil/Harm Horde* = I believe these do more damage than our "general" TM spells, but I can't confirm that. Raesh can!
It isn't necessary to hunt undeath/cursed creatures however, there are ways to gain devotion from murdering live targets. It renders PFE and all of our damage boosts useless, but hey. Do what'cha like.
As for cyclics, I typically utilize Hydra Hex in conjunction with Malediction when I transition into a new hunting area. When I stop learning Debilitation on the new mobs, I can safely swap over to Ghost Shroud and Resurrection swapping every 5 minutes to work Warding and Utility in combat without care or concern. It also keeps they mindlocked doing so.
Theurgy ceases to be any sort of a problem past 20th circle, at least through 108th. I use Meraud's Commune on my hunting room of choice, use Tamsine's commune and repeat as required for Theurgy drain.
The devotional gains that I use to stay at max devotion while doing so:
Undeath/cursed mob kill, every 10 minutes.
Prayer bead, every 10 minutes.
Recite, every 10 minutes.
Dance, every 10 minutes.
Pray, every 10 minutes.
Prayer Badge every 60 minutes.
Honestly, I'd say that Clerics, Bards, Empaths and Moon Mages all have mechanical things to entice you into playing them. It comes down to what you want to do and how you want to do it.
Usually when I observe people PvPing it is a problem with their stat assignment being much less than their opponent, and more often than not their opponent has higher skills than they were expecting. - Kodius
Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time. - Sun Tzu
DASLOW
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 11:35 AM CDT
I'm still a little leery of the Tamsine commune and using it on a loop. Under the old version, when it was a offensive boost, I manged to buff myself so much I rolled over into negative numbers.
SASSERSASS
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 03:09 PM CDT
As an alternate view, I primarily hunt the living. Some of my favorite spells are in the Spirit Manipulation book, and they only effect living things. Soul Bonding, Soul Sickness, Chill Spirit, and Soul Attrition are all fun and completely viable combat/training alternatives to the undead-only route. You can perform the sacrifice ritual on living foes, if you're feeling lucky, for extra devotion. Or you can also pray for them after death (although this requires Meraud's commune).
So it really is up to personal preference, and of course you don't have to just pick one or the other. Clerics ARE unmatched beasts at combating the undead, but it's definitely not our only option.
So it really is up to personal preference, and of course you don't have to just pick one or the other. Clerics ARE unmatched beasts at combating the undead, but it's definitely not our only option.
LIURIDR
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 06:49 PM CDT
>So it really is up to personal preference, and of course you don't have to just pick one or the other. Clerics ARE unmatched beasts at combating the undead, but it's definitely not our only option.
Pretty much this. Our toolkit is expansive enough to give us many options for tackling pretty much whatever you want whether it be the Undead or the mundanes.
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 06:52 PM CDT
If you all were to pick something that Clerics are unrivaled at that isn't hunting undead, what would say it is?
THETECHNOCRACY
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 07:00 PM CDT
>>If you all were to pick something that Clerics are unrivaled at that isn't hunting undead, what would say it is?
And to clarify, I can see that Clerics can be adaptable enough that I can do whatever I want, just curious what other things you feel really great about being the best at. Like bringing other players back to life.
And to clarify, I can see that Clerics can be adaptable enough that I can do whatever I want, just curious what other things you feel really great about being the best at. Like bringing other players back to life.
JARRETTJ26
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 08:14 PM CDT
>>If you all were to pick something that Clerics are unrivaled at that isn't hunting undead, what would say it is?
cleric debils/debuffs are pretty sweet...malediction or CoZ used with hydra hex, soul sickness, DR(unbalance/knockdown), soul bonding(can't leave the room) spite, cry, hulp, IT, halo...there are a plethora of spells that in some way harm your opponent from stuns, to prone, immboliziation, skill debuffs, armor and weapon debuffs, cancelling magic, killing mana, stealing anothers spell to use as your own...coupled with buffs(mpp, mapp, benediction, auspice, GG, pfe, bless, centering, GS, SL, soul shield, pom, sap, sol) combine to make clerics very fun to play both mechanically and RP wise(drop a spite in front of empath's and watch the carnage!) While I won't say unrivaled in these, pretty much near the top of the heap. Can also play with alignment to get your bonus where you feel you area of influence will reside(offense/defense) as well as feats to help.
cleric debils/debuffs are pretty sweet...malediction or CoZ used with hydra hex, soul sickness, DR(unbalance/knockdown), soul bonding(can't leave the room) spite, cry, hulp, IT, halo...there are a plethora of spells that in some way harm your opponent from stuns, to prone, immboliziation, skill debuffs, armor and weapon debuffs, cancelling magic, killing mana, stealing anothers spell to use as your own...coupled with buffs(mpp, mapp, benediction, auspice, GG, pfe, bless, centering, GS, SL, soul shield, pom, sap, sol) combine to make clerics very fun to play both mechanically and RP wise(drop a spite in front of empath's and watch the carnage!) While I won't say unrivaled in these, pretty much near the top of the heap. Can also play with alignment to get your bonus where you feel you area of influence will reside(offense/defense) as well as feats to help.
NINEVAH1
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
06/22/2015 10:44 PM CDT
>>If you all were to pick something that Clerics are unrivaled at that isn't hunting undead, what would say it is?
Making every other guild kneel before them.
Making every other guild kneel before them.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Cleric Hunting Approaches
07/01/2015 09:05 AM CDT
Clerics have the largest buff suite of any guild. They have multiple tools unique to Clerics (IT, Rezz, OM, SA [though to be fair, Bards also have a spirit damaging spell]. They have great TM, great Debils (HYH - MALE is one of my favorite debils in game), and pretty amazing wards.
A fully buffed Cleric is a joke of radiance and at least a dozen '+' all over your character sheet.
YANSHADEY
Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 02:09 PM CDT
I know this topic comes up a couple times a year, but I would be curious what 2-3 weapons some of you would choose if you were to start again. I've thought about crossbow, perhaps a blunt and either polearm or 2HE. Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated.
LIURIDR
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 02:23 PM CDT
I would probably do something like Polearms, Crossbow, and a blunt. Maybe HE as well.
HEXEDBYTHENET
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 03:38 PM CDT
Even if I did start again, I'd likely not choose anything new.
Currently, I'm doing staves + small edge + sling. But, my Cleric is a Gnome and that does influence my weapon choices quite a lot.
You say to Tathalus, "Have you ever tried to clean a troll den? The smell sticks around for years to come."
Liev says, "That is my cue to leave."
Currently, I'm doing staves + small edge + sling. But, my Cleric is a Gnome and that does influence my weapon choices quite a lot.
You say to Tathalus, "Have you ever tried to clean a troll den? The smell sticks around for years to come."
Liev says, "That is my cue to leave."
BADGOPHER
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 05:29 PM CDT
In current DR?
Probably staff or pole, 2he, and brawling.
I view ranged as mostly redundant unless you're doing two specific things; PvP or 'clear low level mobs as fast as possible by spam throw'.
If you're going to PvP, LT. If you're going to clear cut, LT.
Staff: too flexible in current DR cycle, due to a lot of templates. Same for Pole, I just like staves more.
Brawling: too easy not to train, and being armed if disarmed is valuable in many situations.
2HE: no penalty vs. HE, and if you're going to use weapons dependent on strength (as opposed to bows, light weapons, etc.) might as well get the most bang for your buck.
Probably staff or pole, 2he, and brawling.
I view ranged as mostly redundant unless you're doing two specific things; PvP or 'clear low level mobs as fast as possible by spam throw'.
If you're going to PvP, LT. If you're going to clear cut, LT.
Staff: too flexible in current DR cycle, due to a lot of templates. Same for Pole, I just like staves more.
Brawling: too easy not to train, and being armed if disarmed is valuable in many situations.
2HE: no penalty vs. HE, and if you're going to use weapons dependent on strength (as opposed to bows, light weapons, etc.) might as well get the most bang for your buck.
SLEE1
YANSHADEY
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 05:49 PM CDT
Appreciate all the feedback so far.
>> Probably staff or pole, 2he, and brawling.
Don't find Pole and 2he redundant? I usually see people talk about them as an either or. Just curious.
Thanks again.
>> Probably staff or pole, 2he, and brawling.
Don't find Pole and 2he redundant? I usually see people talk about them as an either or. Just curious.
Thanks again.
BRYCOLE83
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 07:34 PM CDT
>> weapons
Your defenses will generally lag behind your weapons. I tend to train as many weapons as I can while my defenses are catching up AND still do all the fun stuff like crafting.
With masteries its much easier to let some weapons slide and also easier to pick them up.
Your defenses will generally lag behind your weapons. I tend to train as many weapons as I can while my defenses are catching up AND still do all the fun stuff like crafting.
With masteries its much easier to let some weapons slide and also easier to pick them up.
BADGOPHER
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 09:00 PM CDT
>Don't find Pole and 2he redundant? I usually see people talk about them as an either or. Just curious.
I don't, but you were the one who spec'ed 3 and only 3 weapons. Pole: 1 hand melee, 2 hand melee, 2 hand pole, thrown, slash, puncture, or equal templates.
2HE: better overall damage, less variance, more power, and easily forged with impact to counter the pole.
My personal set up for my last cleric was pole, thrown, brawling, he, hb, and 2he. Despite he/hb being statistically meaningless compared to 2he/2hb, I liked them. So I trained them, despite it being less than perfect min/max.
I don't, but you were the one who spec'ed 3 and only 3 weapons. Pole: 1 hand melee, 2 hand melee, 2 hand pole, thrown, slash, puncture, or equal templates.
2HE: better overall damage, less variance, more power, and easily forged with impact to counter the pole.
My personal set up for my last cleric was pole, thrown, brawling, he, hb, and 2he. Despite he/hb being statistically meaningless compared to 2he/2hb, I liked them. So I trained them, despite it being less than perfect min/max.
BICKFORDS3
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 09:32 PM CDT
Small Edged
Large Edged
Twohanded Edged
Small Blunt
Large Blunt
Twohanded Blunt
Staves
Polearms
Heavy Thrown
Brawling
Prydaen prayer for the hunt:
http://pastebin.com/fRrP52H7
Large Edged
Twohanded Edged
Small Blunt
Large Blunt
Twohanded Blunt
Staves
Polearms
Heavy Thrown
Brawling
Prydaen prayer for the hunt:
http://pastebin.com/fRrP52H7
YANSHADEY
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/04/2015 09:34 PM CDT
Thanks for the additional feedback and clarifications. It is appreciated.
BLUEFROG99
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/05/2015 12:19 PM CDT
> All of them.
And how. TDPs are the best. Flexible clerics are also the best. But the TDPs to get the stats to really back up your debil, ooh yes.
If I left any out, they would be small blunt and bows. There's only one really nice small blunt weapon and it's a quest item I don't want to pay for. Bows are only good for rangers and barbs; everyone else should use crossbows or even slings.
Specifically I wish I had trained crossbow from the start, but at least I'm now in a good position to backtrain that one.
And how. TDPs are the best. Flexible clerics are also the best. But the TDPs to get the stats to really back up your debil, ooh yes.
If I left any out, they would be small blunt and bows. There's only one really nice small blunt weapon and it's a quest item I don't want to pay for. Bows are only good for rangers and barbs; everyone else should use crossbows or even slings.
Specifically I wish I had trained crossbow from the start, but at least I'm now in a good position to backtrain that one.
YANSHADEY
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/05/2015 01:29 PM CDT
>> TDPs
I love them too.
Long term I will likely train more weapons and have mostly been talking about 3-4 weapons to be trained "at level" for the first 50 circles or so. I find I drain mind states fast enough that keeping locked all the skills needed to circle, all magics, 3-4 weapons, athletics, mech and a crafting is a handful.
Once I can lock them and still have time leftover I'll circle back for some additional weapons and likely another crafting.
Right now I'm pretty much thinking I will go crossbow, 2HE or Polearm, Lb or staves and light thrown.
I do appreciate the continued replies.
I love them too.
Long term I will likely train more weapons and have mostly been talking about 3-4 weapons to be trained "at level" for the first 50 circles or so. I find I drain mind states fast enough that keeping locked all the skills needed to circle, all magics, 3-4 weapons, athletics, mech and a crafting is a handful.
Once I can lock them and still have time leftover I'll circle back for some additional weapons and likely another crafting.
Right now I'm pretty much thinking I will go crossbow, 2HE or Polearm, Lb or staves and light thrown.
I do appreciate the continued replies.
BLUEFROG99
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/05/2015 03:13 PM CDT
One interesting thing about a F2P character is that you can definitely keep a whole lotta skills locked at once. Slow drain rate has that unusual perk to it. On my main character I find it hard to take time for all the crafts and generally only work one at a time, but on my F2P character, I have an excuse to go lock an additional skill. (I find the paid drain rate better, for sure, but it's a funny thing to see.)
URITEL
Re: Cleric Weapons Redux
08/07/2015 12:58 PM CDT
So, for training purposes, I would do all weapons (except bow.)
For actual pvp I would likely pick polearm (one handed for most purposes), crossbow, and heavy thrown. Two close contenders would be light thrown and staves (nightstick.)
