So... it's a little hard for me to tell if the lack of Evoke feedback is because no one is testing it out, or because it's successful and mostly invisible so no one has had issues to report.
Basically I need a lot of people hammering on this to make sure it's solid before I move forward with the next, much larger, phase of converting over recalls -- so feedback here is important.
If you manage to break the system or see something funny... lemme know. If you think the new exp/rt formulas are wonk, lemme know. If you've tested it and you can't find any problems... I'd like to know that too.
It should only take a few minutes to bang on it, but your time will be much appreciated.
Thanks!
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
DR-RAESH
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 07:34 PM CDT
While I do have a bard, I have to be honest in that I never use history or anything but 'recall train scholarship'. So I'm not entirely sure how to even use the system, which rooms (we'll say in Xings for simplicity) to use it in, etc.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
LEEJ82
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 07:41 PM CDT
I'd say I use recall (now evoke)...about three times a year.
So the lack of feedback may just be due to the infrequency with which it's used.
So the lack of feedback may just be due to the infrequency with which it's used.
ILLIENA
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 07:50 PM CDT
Here's something. In the Frozen Heavens, I got a duplicate recall area message:
>recal area
You pause for a moment to gather in your surroundings, trying to recall everything you know of the area.
You sense the faint imprint of something important southeast, southwest, southwest, east, east of here.
You sense the faint imprint of something important southeast, southwest, southwest, east, east of here.
And then when I went to the room:
>recall area
You pause for a moment to gather in your surroundings, trying to recall everything you know of the area.
You sense the faint imprint of something important right around you.
You sense the faint imprint of something important right around you.
>recal area
You pause for a moment to gather in your surroundings, trying to recall everything you know of the area.
You sense the faint imprint of something important southeast, southwest, southwest, east, east of here.
You sense the faint imprint of something important southeast, southwest, southwest, east, east of here.
And then when I went to the room:
>recall area
You pause for a moment to gather in your surroundings, trying to recall everything you know of the area.
You sense the faint imprint of something important right around you.
You sense the faint imprint of something important right around you.
DR-RAESH
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 08:32 PM CDT
I understand as it is the system is not used that much, which in turn means it wasn't developed much, which in turn means it wasn't used... and so forth.
I'm trying to fix that, and while this particular release may not highlight why it is interesting to you (Since, as I said, this is mostly behind the scenes work) I think some of the later features will.
Just a couple of things this coming down the pike:
1) Automatic notification that an item has a recall on it (No, it won't spam you).
2) Opening Recall History to everyone (though Bards will retain a large bonus). This will help encourage development of the system since it won't be as narrow.
3) Significantly more evokes and recalls since they are far faster and easier to set up than before. For example, an auction item could have a recall added to it in under a minute whereas before each item practically had to be scripted from scratch to do so.
4) Bardic Lore training. While Evoke and Recall Area aren't intended to be the backbone of your Bardic Lore training, they will supplement it and give you more options on how to train it.
This is without touching on the other aspects of recall (Famous, immortal, etc) that are also getting improved -- they just don't run through the same core mechanics. That said, I realizes this isn't everyone's cup of tea. It's not a flashy ability, it's a tool to convey lore, and hopefully a useful training tool as well (Which, as I mentioned, is something I'd like feedback on as well. I redid all the exp and rt calcs to be somewhat friendlier).
As for the duplicated message -- I've fixed that now. It was an artifact of the old Perc History still existing. Please let me know if you encounter it again.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
I'm trying to fix that, and while this particular release may not highlight why it is interesting to you (Since, as I said, this is mostly behind the scenes work) I think some of the later features will.
Just a couple of things this coming down the pike:
1) Automatic notification that an item has a recall on it (No, it won't spam you).
2) Opening Recall History to everyone (though Bards will retain a large bonus). This will help encourage development of the system since it won't be as narrow.
3) Significantly more evokes and recalls since they are far faster and easier to set up than before. For example, an auction item could have a recall added to it in under a minute whereas before each item practically had to be scripted from scratch to do so.
4) Bardic Lore training. While Evoke and Recall Area aren't intended to be the backbone of your Bardic Lore training, they will supplement it and give you more options on how to train it.
This is without touching on the other aspects of recall (Famous, immortal, etc) that are also getting improved -- they just don't run through the same core mechanics. That said, I realizes this isn't everyone's cup of tea. It's not a flashy ability, it's a tool to convey lore, and hopefully a useful training tool as well (Which, as I mentioned, is something I'd like feedback on as well. I redid all the exp and rt calcs to be somewhat friendlier).
As for the duplicated message -- I've fixed that now. It was an artifact of the old Perc History still existing. Please let me know if you encounter it again.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ILLIENA
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 09:22 PM CDT
> I redid all the exp and rt calcs to be somewhat friendlier
Was this only on evoke, or did you redo them on recall as well?
Part of the problem with testing learning is that I don't know what skills evoke is supposed to train --- Scholarship and PP, at a guess? I also don't know what the timer is for learning from an evoke.
There are currently too few to bother making a script which runs between them, like I have for recalls. So the only way I'd learn from evoke right now is to position myself on one while I do stationary stuff like instruments, and evoke it regularly. I'm testing that now: I'm doing "recall area" and "evoke" every 75 seconds, and it's training my scholarship ever so slightly faster than the drain rate, so it's inching up. My power perception, however, is slowly making its way to clear (and this is with an enchante providing extra exp).
Love the 2 second rt on evoke.
Was this only on evoke, or did you redo them on recall as well?
Part of the problem with testing learning is that I don't know what skills evoke is supposed to train --- Scholarship and PP, at a guess? I also don't know what the timer is for learning from an evoke.
There are currently too few to bother making a script which runs between them, like I have for recalls. So the only way I'd learn from evoke right now is to position myself on one while I do stationary stuff like instruments, and evoke it regularly. I'm testing that now: I'm doing "recall area" and "evoke" every 75 seconds, and it's training my scholarship ever so slightly faster than the drain rate, so it's inching up. My power perception, however, is slowly making its way to clear (and this is with an enchante providing extra exp).
Love the 2 second rt on evoke.
LEEJ82
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 10:37 PM CDT
<<I'm trying to fix that, and while this particular release may not highlight why it is interesting to you (Since, as I said, this is mostly behind the scenes work) I think some of the later features will.
I didn't mean to come off anti-recall development. My point was that it is so utterly niche that its usefulness approaches zero at the moment. I don't get off on wandering around aimless trying to recall random rooms and objects, although I imagine some people do.
Your changes sound like it may become convenient and fun to use, which is a good thing.
Unfortunately, there's not much to recall inside of forges at the moment.
I didn't mean to come off anti-recall development. My point was that it is so utterly niche that its usefulness approaches zero at the moment. I don't get off on wandering around aimless trying to recall random rooms and objects, although I imagine some people do.
Your changes sound like it may become convenient and fun to use, which is a good thing.
Unfortunately, there's not much to recall inside of forges at the moment.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 11:10 PM CDT
So, could anyone point me to a list of locations/things I could recall at, to check the new evoke mechanics?
I was really trying to be subtle and say 'I know nothing about this system, not even enough to know how/where/when/why to use it, so can't approach testing it till someone nice explains it with small simple words for me'.
Clearly, I'm terrible at subtle.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
I was really trying to be subtle and say 'I know nothing about this system, not even enough to know how/where/when/why to use it, so can't approach testing it till someone nice explains it with small simple words for me'.
Clearly, I'm terrible at subtle.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Evoke Feedback
09/30/2011 11:17 PM CDT
As a quick followup, I walked around Crossing doing recall area, and could locate 'areas of interest' but could not get evoke/recall to actually give any results.
I suspect my scholarship and stats are far too low to play (nearly 90, and 20ish respectively), circle 27, in Plat.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
I suspect my scholarship and stats are far too low to play (nearly 90, and 20ish respectively), circle 27, in Plat.
Please remember: just because a post is 'new to you' doesn't mean we have any idea what you're responding to. Quotes is your friend.
PALUMBOB
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 12:54 AM CDT
I use recall all the time.
For Immortals, to remember what herbs heal what, ect.
It would be neat if we could use recall on items we find. To see who held the items last, for instance, but I'm sure that will come... maybe.
Also, having recall (evoke rather) for events is a very good way to get Bards involved with things.
Bryan, player of Mordiazi
For Immortals, to remember what herbs heal what, ect.
It would be neat if we could use recall on items we find. To see who held the items last, for instance, but I'm sure that will come... maybe.
Also, having recall (evoke rather) for events is a very good way to get Bards involved with things.
Bryan, player of Mordiazi
DR-RAESH
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 01:05 AM CDT
>Part of the problem with testing learning is that I don't know what skills evoke is supposed to train --- Scholarship and PP, at a guess? I also don't know what the timer is for learning from an evoke.
Timers tend to be a PAFO sort of thing. As for the skills trained, I thought I covered that in the post -- but to recall: Recall = Scholarship, Recall Area = Scholarship (After Skills 3.0 Bardic Lore + less Scholarship) Evokes = PP (Bardic Lore after Skills 3.0).
>So, could anyone point me to a list of locations/things I could recall at, to check the new evoke mechanics?
Elanthipedia has a fairly good list.
>I suspect my scholarship and stats are far too low to play (nearly 90, and 20ish respectively), circle 27, in Plat.
That's a little on the low side for most of them, though there's a few you should be able to get. Note that in general the skill range the evokes (And recalls to a lesser degree) covers is far narrower than I'd like, something I'll keep an eye on to try and resolve as more of them come out.
>To see who held the items last, for instance, but I'm sure that will come... maybe.
That is not something that is currently planned.
I apologize that there are so few evokes for people to test on, however that's the same reason I did this system first -- it's far easier to manage 15 or so evokes than 150+ recalls if something goes wrong.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
Timers tend to be a PAFO sort of thing. As for the skills trained, I thought I covered that in the post -- but to recall: Recall = Scholarship, Recall Area = Scholarship (After Skills 3.0 Bardic Lore + less Scholarship) Evokes = PP (Bardic Lore after Skills 3.0).
>So, could anyone point me to a list of locations/things I could recall at, to check the new evoke mechanics?
Elanthipedia has a fairly good list.
>I suspect my scholarship and stats are far too low to play (nearly 90, and 20ish respectively), circle 27, in Plat.
That's a little on the low side for most of them, though there's a few you should be able to get. Note that in general the skill range the evokes (And recalls to a lesser degree) covers is far narrower than I'd like, something I'll keep an eye on to try and resolve as more of them come out.
>To see who held the items last, for instance, but I'm sure that will come... maybe.
That is not something that is currently planned.
I apologize that there are so few evokes for people to test on, however that's the same reason I did this system first -- it's far easier to manage 15 or so evokes than 150+ recalls if something goes wrong.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
BEVERAGEK
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 01:08 AM CDT
The locations are here: http://elanthipedia.com/wiki/Perceive_History
I should have some time to do some testing either tomorrow during the day sometime or on Sunday. So, basically you need to know:
1) If anything is buggy. (typos, double messaging, general weirdness, etc)
2) If we think the RT/EXP is fair for the ability, and what we would like changed if anything.
Question, should we only be testing EVOKE in the old PERCEIVE HISTORY rooms, or is there more we should be testing? Such as, do we need to go next to a room with an Evoke in it and RECALL AREA and provide feedback on whether or not we feel the Recall Area RT/EXP is fair as well?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
I should have some time to do some testing either tomorrow during the day sometime or on Sunday. So, basically you need to know:
1) If anything is buggy. (typos, double messaging, general weirdness, etc)
2) If we think the RT/EXP is fair for the ability, and what we would like changed if anything.
Question, should we only be testing EVOKE in the old PERCEIVE HISTORY rooms, or is there more we should be testing? Such as, do we need to go next to a room with an Evoke in it and RECALL AREA and provide feedback on whether or not we feel the Recall Area RT/EXP is fair as well?
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
DR-RAESH
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 01:13 AM CDT
I did not touch the exp/rt on Recall Area beyond enabling it for Skills 3.0 if you try it on the test realm.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
LHFERREE1
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 10:36 AM CDT
>So... it's a little hard for me to tell if the lack of Evoke feedback is because no one is testing it out, or because it's successful and mostly invisible so no one has had issues to report.
Not testing it out, had been busy. But everything seems to be working so far when I've used it. Unlike a lot of others I frequently use perceive history and recall just because I enjoy learning about an area and role play an interest in history, etc. Excited about the changes.
~~
Lupdels
Not testing it out, had been busy. But everything seems to be working so far when I've used it. Unlike a lot of others I frequently use perceive history and recall just because I enjoy learning about an area and role play an interest in history, etc. Excited about the changes.
~~
Lupdels
ILLIENA
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/01/2011 03:05 PM CDT
> Unlike a lot of others I frequently use perceive history and recall just because I enjoy learning about an area and role play an interest in history
I think a lot of people do. It's just that we'd already learned the info that all the existing recalls/evokes had to offer.
I think a lot of people do. It's just that we'd already learned the info that all the existing recalls/evokes had to offer.
BLUERIDER
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/21/2011 03:57 PM CDT
I've been out on Ratha for a while so haven't had a chance to test evoke before now. When I use Evoke I get the entire message, at least according to Elanthipedia, when I was only getting the first few lines before the change. If I use perceive history now instead of evoke I still only get the first part of the message. My power perception is only 179, so I wasn't expecting to see the whole thing for a while. I've only checked the one at the dock in Crossing.
This is in Plat if that matters.
This is in Plat if that matters.
DR-RAESH
Re: Evoke Feedback
10/21/2011 08:48 PM CDT
That's expected. The way difficulty tiers are handled is a little different, so in some cases they were simplified or removed from existing ones during the conversion. (Which is not to say that they can no longer exist, just that this behavior is expected).
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
