No retracting your post. Better to be frustrated and constructive than self imposed forced happy and complacent, IMO.

Also: While I had no idea playing an enchante on an instrument in some way was more powerful, you're right about the rank gap I'm sure we all have. What's more, instruments are just enough of a pain for me to give up that extra power. It's incredibly difficult to gauge the power of an enchante in the first place, really.

However, I think one simple point can pretty much nullify anyones argument that instrument skills don't need help: Aside from the minuet spirit healing and TDPs, what possible use would a non bard have for instrument ranks?


-=Issus=-

<<Aside from the minuet spirit healing and TDPs, what possible use would a non bard have for instrument ranks?

You can hum and get the minuet spirit healing.

-Evran

Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.

>>Not sure if I agree with that. You guys could really use some work on the enchante system.

I'm saying this with sincerity, not sarcasm. Have you heard the latest? Zeyurn said he would like to take a look at fixing enchantes. So, not only are people aware of it upstairs, but they're willing to work on it. So that in and of itself is not only encouraging, but awesome.

I really like how Bards are, and will like it better after the enchante rewrite (again, but practice makes perfect). I'd like to see more incentive to learn instrument skills. More associated perks with certain instrument types.

Minuet + grants spirit health recovery.

What if each instrument type had a seperate niche it helped with? Something small, but something to add incentive to train it.

I'll think on this too, but what would everyone else like to see?
For Strings?
For Winds?
For Percussion?
It would have to be something that could be applied out of combat, because how many people are going to bust out a lyre and a flute during combat? I like the minuet humming because I can sing Lilt or Naga's Blessing AND hum a minuet to restore spirit on top of it, making it ideal for triage situations.

And now that scroll spell learning has moved to Arcana (A move I wholeheartedly approve of) how about some more scholarship perks? I'd love to put some sort of language learning plan into place that involved scholarship, vocals, and TDP's in order to permanently learn another language. Even if there was a limit to it. There's not one reason my character should not understand S'Kra Mur.

Anyway, I still have a lot of love for the Bard's Guild. Beyond the enchante system and screams being expanded upon, I hope to see more done with PERCEIVE HISTORY and a loregasm quest to go along with it. (Lore Secondaries have cool quests, why not us?)


- Terra

> what possible use would a non bard have for instrument ranks?


Paladins and clerics have a special use for it. Other than, nothing. At the moment. At least one more use is being wrapped into the new combat system.


- GM Dartenian


If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right. - Henry Ford

>>At least one more use is being wrapped into the new combat system.

Club + target shield = intimidation beat? Actually, that would be pretty cool. Charisma modified, of course.

In their case it is the lore and history or so I've heard someone saying on the Bard's folder here while back. I think right around when Issus threw his last nerd rage fit :P


>bluff silv
You realize you have no idea how to bluff an unintelligent beast like the Leader Silvyrfrost.

<<>>id we REALLY need a Necromancer Guild when we already have Guilds like the Traders/Barbarians/Bards that are soo underdeveloped>>

Thing is, at some point, you do have to go ahead and do your new stuff. As was previously stated, Necros had been promised for yeeeeeeeeeears. It wasn't just something we decided to do suddenly, abandoning all work on anything else to do so.

Look at it from the perspective of, say, provincial expansion. We could argue that we shouldn't have added Farfromhere, but instead, have expanded the existing provinces - adding villages or clans, caves, treetops, forested areas, etc. Heck, you could turn the dial all the way back and say that we shouldn't have added Qi, or Theren, or Ilithi...

But at some point, you do need to move forward. The key is not to forsake continued development of the existing stuff in favor of the new. And we don't do that. It may feel or look like it sometimes, probably in that final push to get-the-thing-out-the-door, but we do keep going with our other stuff.

-V.


"Reject me not, sweet sounds! oh, let me live,
Till doom espy my towers and scatter them.
A city spell-bound under the aging sun,
Music my rampart, and my only one."
-Edna St. Vincent-Millay

I just wanted to point out that I was singing hodernia's lilt QUIETly at 10 mana, when I walked through the empath's guild to get healed from hunting some low level monsters. However, apparently the lilt pulsed and hit some moon mage's blue-glow buff or something, said it weakened his shear or something, and next thing I know I'm hit by a 2000 PM burn spell or whatever and very dead.

I talked to the guy after and worked it out but it would be very beneficial for new bard players if this were changed. I'm not sure what other enchantes do this too but its definitely not cool!

This has been a long standing problem where our beneficial AOE enchantes will weaken all barrier spells.

IIRC, the Moon Mage here just felt like killing someone. Lilting loudly inside of an Empath hall is customary, as no one would benefit from it if you were to sing it quietly.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>IIRC, the Moon Mage here just felt like killing someone.

I agree with this. I've sang LILT pretty much everywhere around town just for myself (sometimes loud, sometimes quiet) and I've never been killed over it. I'm glad you and the player worked it out but I'd watch out for them in future interactions if they're going to jump you with no RP over a vitality buff. I guess I feel like the logical next step should have been a whisper with "What are you playing to affect my spell?" before an attack. I would take something similar happening to me as jumping the gun, especially in the Empath guild.

---

Bella
>>There are 7 levels of hell, she said, & I think one of them is reserved for people who bring jello salads to every potluck they go to.

>>...where the SHEAR and ENCHANTE will mesh badly and either the MM or the BARD ends up dead.

Ahahaha that's awesome, I've never seen that before. I'd like a Moon Mage to test this with. Battle of Mental Power... TO THE DEATH.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

To the OP, who was this moon mage? I can get back over to the Crossing and, ah, take care of this situation if you'd like.

I'm a little late to the party because I don't read the bard boards but that Moonmage was me.

"IIRC, the Moon Mage here just felt like killing someone."

I did. Just not this person. I was a little on edge playing assassins and got the messaging "unfortunate (but now much richer) bard's spell is weakened by your shear" Or something similar.

I didn't get any of the usual bard noise (maybe because the bard was singing quite), just the message of the spell being weakened. So I took the attack message and ran with it.

Now I've been playing for a while, I'm aware that bards and shear don't mix. This was a bad kill and could have gotten me in trouble. When I was asking why I was cast at and they were asking why the hell they just got killed it clicked for me the mistake I made.

Fortunately WRATHYN is a reasonable person that I was able to make amends with.

"To the OP, who was this moon mage? I can get back over to the Crossing and, ah, take care of this situation if you'd like. "

I'm your huckleberry.


-Serc

"We, the disenfranchised men and women of Elanthia do, by the publishing of this accord, cast off the oppressive yoke of all law and nations and choose for ourselves a path of loyalty unto ourselves"

>>I'm glad you and the player worked it out but I'd watch out for them in future interactions if they're going to jump you with no RP over a vitality buff.

Just because the Moon Mage didn't talk/whisper first before killing doesn't mean it wasn't RP.

---

Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.

-GM Abasha

"Just because the Moon Mage didn't talk/whisper first before killing doesn't mean it wasn't RP."

I appreciate this.

With this particular character, twitchy overly violent reaction is exactly within his normal behavior. The problem was that I, the player, misinterpreted what was happening and acted outside of policy.

"If someone killed me over that with nothing whatsoever before they fired off a shot or a spell, I'd be pretty pissed off. I believe that LILTing in the Empath guild is common and not grounds for consent."

I think you're assuming I knew more of what was going on than I did. There was no messaging about a lit. I wasn't even aware that this person was a bard until they were dead.

From my perspective at the time I'd already undergone an attack from this person. The shear messaging does not specify lit, it even explicitly says spell. The sum of my knowledge of what was taking place at the time was that my barrier defense had been activated by the unfortunate bard's SPELL. I was reacting as if I'd been attacked. Generally, in that situation, you don't whisper and ask why until someone is dead.

Problem is that my interpretation of what was taking place was wrong and I killed an innocent bard. Not at all out of character for Serchah, but outside of policy and good player to player manners. That was my fault.

The issue between myself and the player of the bard is resolved. I'm really only offering explanation because there seems to be a perception that PvP is about upsetting the player and ruining their fun. That does happen, but by in large the PvP scene is about the challenge of pitting the skills of my text in addition to my tactics against someone else. It's fun and is even more fun the more people that are involved so I'd like to try not to leave a bad impression to either the bard I killed or the people who happen across the thread.


-Serc

"We, the disenfranchised men and women of Elanthia do, by the publishing of this accord, cast off the oppressive yoke of all law and nations and choose for ourselves a path of loyalty unto ourselves"