Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 01:39 PM CDT
>>I am waiting for those last 3 techniques for smithing

I might be totally misremembering but didn't this get brought up previously and a GM pointed out that there are no "missing" techniques for smithing?



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 01:41 PM CDT
No, just that they are not what I expected them to be ie. required for enchanting weapons.

______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Forging Guru of M'Riss
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 03:49 PM CDT
I highly recommend to anyone who is bored of their HLCs rolling a new character and trying a different guild. I've been really amazed at how people don't know ANYTHING about some guilds.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 04:10 PM CDT
>I've been really amazed at how people don't know ANYTHING about some guilds.

Nonsense. I know barbs, for a fact, run around dancing and screaming at people, and belch in combat to train TM. Oh, and you guys have pet badgers or something IIRC.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 05:28 PM CDT
>>Nonsense. I know barbs, for a fact, run around dancing and screaming at people, and belch in combat to train TM. Oh, and you guys have pet badgers or something IIRC.

^^


"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/04/2014 10:33 PM CDT
<<I highly recommend to anyone who is bored of their HLCs rolling a new character and trying a different guild. I've been really amazed at how people don't know ANYTHING about some guilds. >>

Or just reroll the same guild and stay awesome because your a barbarian and TOG. Its a new experience.




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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 09:45 AM CDT

Alright, I'm convinced- I'm chalking up giving a boost to secondary/tertiaries at high circle under Really Dumb Idea(tm). That said, back to the origional topic- I'd really, really (seriously) like to forge gnomish plate mail [yay for gnomish plate mail!] and the iltesh has its own great weapon niche (high balance weapon that can both slice and stab) that I'd like to see supported in forging. There are also plenty of great racial/geographical/guild/order items out there that can't be forged. One example I think of is the sword Apostles get when they join- that was shot down and I hear there is a list of reasons why emailed but I haven't received a copy of that yet.
In any case, I suspect folks would be excited about forged ilteshes and I know I'd be darn excited about gnomish plate mail.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 10:02 AM CDT
My understanding is that the next iteration of crafting updates (once the base systems are out) will be all those more unique templates (guild specific, race specific, etc).



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 05:22 PM CDT
Forged ilteshes have existed as a rare weapon instruction for a few old festivals. I'll see about getting some more made available.

The problem, is ilteshes are better-than-normal templates. So forging one from Tyrium comes out at Tier 7, not the desired Tier 6.



"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 09:06 PM CDT
Awesome! Thank you so much! That Tier problem with ilteshes does seem like a real doosy. Interesting stuff. Would forged gnomish plate mail be a completely new thing?
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 09:17 PM CDT
Racial armors are all scripted, and should likely be a unique type of armor with its own unique appearance, verbs, etc. Entirely possible to toss some rare racial armor templates for the next whatever :) I'm just not sure we can make them much better than normal armor.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 10:05 PM CDT
>Forged ilteshes have existed as a rare weapon instruction for a few old festivals. I'll see about getting some more made available.

Wait? What? When? WHERE?



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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/06/2014 10:18 PM CDT
"I'm just not sure we can make them much better than normal armor."

That ... honestly doesn't really matter to me, personally. As long as big folk can't easily slip into the same armor as small folk, you know? If it's even possible to do that, I'd be more interested in penalizing mismatched armor than bonusing matched armor. Like the multi-suit penalty, only probably worse the larger the size discrepancy.

Though the ideal, of course, would simply be that big folk can't wear the same stuff as small folk.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 12:28 AM CDT
What if there was an enhancement that made any piece of crafted armor "racially-sized" ?



"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 01:02 AM CDT

Yes. Please. Enhancements to racially size armor is excellent! Let me go hire a pilot to write 'Yes Please You Are A Genius' in the sky real quick....

I'm not looking for better armor but for options and RP. Every time I see the store-version of gnomish plate mail I get this little roller coaster ride of excitement followed by disappointment and lets face it.... Sylvaeus is a great test dummy here for this concept as a gnome paladin if desired. Low-hindrance/weight plate is something I would enjoy even if the template/enhancement makes it in some other ways inferior to balance it out with 'normal' armor. I imagine this would be very tricky to balance but I have confidence. ;)

Very exciting post!
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 02:05 AM CDT
"Low-hindrance/weight plate is something I would enjoy even if the template/enhancement makes it in some other ways inferior to balance it out with 'normal' armor."

I imagine that plate armor made for gnomes would be just as hindering to gnomes as plate armor made for togs would be to togs. That is to say ... very hindering. Now, I could see it weighing significantly less, for obvious reasons. This would be part of what makes it better for you little folk. The catch there is that big folk wouldn't be able to wear it. Likewise, I'd expect plate armor made for a tog to be much heavier and thicker to state the obvious: there's just plain more metal), and therefore ... possibly ... more protective. The catch there being that small folk wouldn't be able to wear it, considering they could probably crawl through the neck hole entirely.

Note I say that armor for larger races could possibly be more protective. I don't see why it would need to be more protective, as it wouldn't necessarily need to be thicker than a smaller suit. The weight is almost guaranteed to be significantly higher even if the armor were made thinner just because of the sheer size difference between the races. The increased weight might come at no benefit, however, speaking in terms of realism/immersion.

Now, all of that said, I am lead to believe that there would be two significant stat difference in racially crafted armor: weight and hindrance. As stated, larger armor sizes ought to weigh more across the board. In addition, hindrance should be reduced if you're wearing an armor sized for your race, and penalized the further away from your own race the size of the armor is (with the biggest penalty being between togs and gnomes, which should be so bad as to be essentially, if not literally, unusable.)

Likewise for weapons: weight increase/decrease based on race size, and (most likely?) FOI/balance/suitability bonus/penalty for mis/matched equipment.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 08:04 AM CDT

Yeah, I could see that. Its something I'll let percolate in the my mind a while as I hope Kodius is as well.:)

My logic was/is that plate mail / aegis made specifically for a gnome has to be easier for Sylvaeus to maneuver in than the plate /aegis he is wearing now since it would be customized to suit him. In RL all plate mail is customized to match the specific recipient of the armor (at least the first owner) and I think this would be a great step in that direction.

I'm not sure if this would ICly mean thinner sheets of metal or not- again something to think on a while.

OOCly..... HES, EASE, MO, Courage..... I have lots of ways to overcome my gnomish hit to encumbrance and while I wouldn't want gnomish plate mail to be specific to paladins at all I would like to state that weight means next to nothing to me (within reason) while hindrance is a very high priority for Sylvaeus. I want my plate to be a second skin with zero hindrance eventually; worn by a fast, hard-to-hit gnome. I know my skill has a long way to go with that but its a goal of mine.
Besides, lets face it: adventurers are all superheroes when it comes to what they can comfortable carry around. lol

This is all very exciting though, eh? :)
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 04:36 PM CDT
Toggish plate mail weighing more?

Okay, but only if gnomish weapons do less damage. Lack of leverage is a killer.

Oh, and all Toggish twohanded weapons should count as pole ranged weapons. Ohh, and all Toggish items should be more durable since they're larger and thicker. And the containers made for us should be larger too.

Do you really want to get into that? It seems like a monumental mess.

I'm all for items being able to be racially sized, but for the RP value, not for any stat changes (special templates excepted).



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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 07:06 PM CDT
>I'm all for items being able to be racially sized, but for the RP value, not for any stat changes (special templates excepted).

This. Honest mechanical differences are meh. I like race being a primarily RP concern, not a 'ok, the devs thought gnomes should all roll this way so I either need to suck at doing anything else or just go with the generic flow'.



I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 10:46 PM CDT

ALright, I'm all for limiting the system. Lets be reasonable here. Armor is kinda ridiculous right now whenever anybody stops to think about it. That said, weapons are on the boundary and everything else is a low return on investment. We can all trust Kodius and the rest to be reasonable if you ask me.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/07/2014 11:30 PM CDT
>Armor is kinda ridiculous right now whenever anybody stops to think about it. That said, weapons are on the boundary and everything else is a low return on investment. We can all trust Kodius and the rest to be reasonable if you ask me.

It's a playability vs. realism argument. Arguing that every armor suit should have to be tailored/fit to each customer might 'be more realistic' but down that path lies putting RT in front of every move command (after all, most rooms are 1/4-1/2 mile or more, so it should take us a few minutes to move), or requiring people to eat and drink food (after all, that's realistic!) and then requiring them to evacuate said food.

Like Caraamon said, if you're going to argue that armor needs to be resized, everything, and I do mean everything, in the game does. Weapons, clothing, camb (that armband for a 'tog would be a belt for a gnome..), even food.



I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:22 AM CDT
I really do think there is a happy middle ground here. I'm confident the dev team could give us a little something without having to invest a bunch of overtime on all the containers and stuff.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:25 AM CDT
May I request the thoughts of GMs in particular on this? This is not to request the suppression of anyone else at all. This is lively.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:35 AM CDT
The game used to have racial differences like these, and for the most part they have been stamped out for good reason.

Example: armour has a reduced weight when worn. This weight reduction is equal for all races currently, but it used to be that small races (Gnomes, Halflings, and Dwarves) had a much smaller reduction to worn armour weight. On top of that, each race gained additional carrying capacity per stat point. IIRC, Gnomes gained 1 to 2 pounds per point compared to around 4-6 on average, all the way up to Gor'Togs getting about 10 per point. Coupled with the racial penalties to Strength and Stamina learning, Gnomes and to a lesser extent Halflings ended up with very significant encumbrance issues.

Realism is all well and good, but it should only affect the game in minor ways.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:41 AM CDT
I don't think anyone is considering overkill here. A small adjustment here or there for racial flavor is not gonna cause a 9.0 earthquake. Again, I'm confident our GMs will not turn this into a slippery slope of some sort.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:56 AM CDT
I'd also like to bring to light that it reads like Kodius is looking to make this sort of racial flavor an option rather than forcing it on everyone. Hopefully that will alleviate some worries. A lot of neat things could be done with this.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 03:24 AM CDT
Personally, I'd love to see the game move in that direction, step by step. I play DR because it's the most immersive MMO I've found, and would love to see it become even moreso. That said, I recognize it's probably not going to happen because for some reason not everyone agrees with that sentiment (can't fathom why, but I suppose it takes all types.)

And yeah, completely overhauling the armor/weapon/clothing/container systems would be a major pain in the ass and time sink for the devs. It'd be a worthwhile one, in my opinion, but still ... I recognize it'd be a nightmare to actually make happen, not just for technical reasons but also for game design/balance reasons. That much is patently obvious. Maybe someday ... although, most likely, in a completely different game. DR is pretty set in stone as is, and has been for some time. I still love it to death, though, for lots of reasons. :)
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 03:26 AM CDT
"completely overhauling the armor/weapon/clothing/container systems"

Overhauling them for racial templates, I mean. Just clarifying in case anyone loses track of the context.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 11:42 AM CDT
I have no problem introducing a racial "fitting" option for armor that adds some unique verbs and appraisal messaging. But adjusting their stats is not something that can be easily worked out as mathematically fair and balanced between the races.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 11:56 AM CDT
If all making armor "gnome-sized" does is somehow put "Gnome Sized" in the tap and make it so other races can't wear it, more power to people who want to use it.



Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:01 PM CDT
I think a cool enchantment would be an armour resizing enchantment that gave fluff messaging about it resizing to fit the wearear. So wearing it would give special messaging about it adjusting to fit their body, possibly even visibly shrinking or enlarging if necessary. Nothing about the stats of the armour would change, just the WEAR/REMOVE messaging and possibly a modification to the TAP/LOOK that showed it's current state.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:03 PM CDT
Come to think of it, an enchantment like this could be applied to all sorts of items from weapons to clothing to jewelry to containers. A nice and simple fluff enhancement.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 12:13 PM CDT
"I have no problem introducing a racial "fitting" option for armor that adds some unique verbs and appraisal messaging. But adjusting their stats is not something that can be easily worked out as mathematically fair and balanced between the races."

Totally understandable. One question, though: would it be too much to ask to at least get it so that "sized" armor can only be worn by appropriately sized races? Splitting the races into small/medium/large sizes would make the most sense for that. So that "dwarven <armor>" could be worn by small races (gnomes, halflings, dwarves) but not by the other sizes?
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:09 PM CDT
I think the both the 'racial size' and the 'fluff enchantment' ideas are great steps in the right direction. I'm with Stellar in the 'immersion is the attraction' camp and I also agree that this stuff should be allowed to progress slowly and carefully. Racial sizes and some messaging stuff might be a great foundation for things quite a ways down the road- who knows?
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:25 PM CDT
>>Totally understandable. One question, though: would it be too much to ask to at least get it so that "sized" armor can only be worn by appropriately sized races? Splitting the races into small/medium/large sizes would make the most sense for that. So that "dwarven <armor>" could be worn by small races (gnomes, halflings, dwarves) but not by the other sizes?

Yes, it would only be wearable by appropriately sized races.




"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:27 PM CDT
So currently we have "reinforced" and "lightened" as two armor modifiers. What would we call this?


You tap some fitted leathers dyed an aqua blue.

You tap some aqua blue leathers fitted to the proportions of a smaller/mid-sized/large race.





"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:30 PM CDT
I call it awesome! I do wish that 'lightened' affected hindrance rather than just weight in some kind of way. 'Reinforced' does the opposite, right?

P.S. I laugh at how this armor topic ended up in the weapon smithing foldier. This does relate to weapons in a more distant way, though.
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:32 PM CDT

"Sized/Sizing", "Fitted/Fitting" and "Structured/Structuring" are a few things that come to mind in order of coolness from best to last IMO. :)
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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:44 PM CDT
Hehehe. "Racist"



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Re: Racial Smithing Books 06/08/2014 01:52 PM CDT
More seriously...

Fitted, sized, shaped, form-fitting, custom.

If it could be varied by size like the armor in Shard, that would be nice, but I imagine it's more effort than it's worth.



Weapons for Sale:
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