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>.Wow thats a long time.....can you do other things or do more than 1 concurrently?
Yes but it's still a pain and takes awhile. The frustrating thing about forging is it's not so much the mix time or the pounding time or the grinding time that makes the proccess so long. It's the waiting for the ingot/wire/plate to cool down so you can pick it up then waiting for it to heat up again when you put it on the forge. I REALLY hope that the new system addresses this.
Also something to keep in mind since people keep tossing Mech lore around with the new system. It's not going to be mech lore anymore and you're not going to be a great forger by throwing down a pyramid while hunting.
LUXORTH
MARTINCOTY77
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 10:47 AM CST
>>Also something to keep in mind since people keep tossing Mech lore around with the new system. It's not going to be mech lore anymore and you're not going to be a great forger by throwing down a pyramid while hunting.
True that....but currently training mech now will do just that because you'll be able to dump those ranks into something.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
True that....but currently training mech now will do just that because you'll be able to dump those ranks into something.
Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html
RAIST
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 01:58 PM CST
>That's just about how long it takes to make a single blade right now. 1 hour.
Not exactly true. The time from first item added to pounding might be that long, but a) there's a long downtime in between which you can do other things, and b) time taken is only slightly added with additional items.
If each and every sword took a solid hour of work in which nothing else could be done, I bet you'd see the price skyrocket.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Not exactly true. The time from first item added to pounding might be that long, but a) there's a long downtime in between which you can do other things, and b) time taken is only slightly added with additional items.
If each and every sword took a solid hour of work in which nothing else could be done, I bet you'd see the price skyrocket.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
SUGARSNOUT
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 02:46 PM CST
It takes an hour to make 1 sword.
You can add in whatever else you like, but you're not going to make a sword in anywhere less than that general time frame.
You can add in whatever else you like, but you're not going to make a sword in anywhere less than that general time frame.
RAIST
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 03:54 PM CST
Guess I'm just fast then. I can make around five in an hour and a half.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
OTAH
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 04:01 PM CST
>Guess I'm just fast then. I can make around five in an hour and a half.
Can you make one in less than an hour?
Can you make one in less than an hour?
RAIST
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 04:10 PM CST
>Can you make one in less than an hour?
Actually time spent? Yes.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Actually time spent? Yes.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
VAGELO
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 04:17 PM CST
If I was willing to pay 500 plat to have a custom mix ready in 30 minutes, could you do it?
-Master Ndin
-Master Ndin
RAIST
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 04:38 PM CST
>If I was willing to pay 500 plat to have a custom mix ready in 30 minutes, could you do it?
Sure. I have several custom mixes ready right now. :P
I don't see why it's so difficult. A project you can start, leave for a while, and come back later is not as "costly" as one that requires constant effort for the same amount of time.
This is especially true if you can work on several items simulaneously, as you can with forging.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Sure. I have several custom mixes ready right now. :P
I don't see why it's so difficult. A project you can start, leave for a while, and come back later is not as "costly" as one that requires constant effort for the same amount of time.
This is especially true if you can work on several items simulaneously, as you can with forging.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
DGUTHRIE2
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 04:51 PM CST
>>If I was willing to pay 500 plat to have a custom mix ready in 30 minutes, could you do it?<<
No.
The majority of the time involved with forging comes in two phases. The first time consuming phase is the cool down that takes place when you pour molten steel into the ingot mold and let it cool completely. This takes about a half hour.
The next phase is the heating phase, where you take the now completely cooled ingot and transfer it to the forge to heat up. There are varying stages, with the final stage being "white hot." I never pound anything that's less than white hot, even though it IS possible, but this phase also takes about a half hour, hence... about 1 hour to make anything that's forged.
There is some time involved in the mixing, prior to pouring it into the mold, and this varies depending on the complexity of the mix, how many ingredients are used, and what the mixer's strength is. More strength results in lower round times.
The other time variable is in the pounding of the item. Right now the base rt is 70 seconds minus your adjusted strength. Paladins can use Heroic Strength, Barbarians can use the Bear dance to boost and buff their strength, resulting in lower roundtimes while pounding.
You do take a stamina hit with each pounding, so even though it's possible to get a zero roundtime while pounding, there may be a few seconds before you regain 100% stamina again, but once again, more strength = lower roundtimes.
In general, it's not worth it to forge just one sword. There's always a chance of breakage, and the additional time it takes to make a few more ingots is negligible in the grande scheme of things when compared to the time it takes for the cool down and the reheating process.
With weapons, there's also time involved in the grinding of the blade. All things considered, I estimate it's a bit more than an hour to complete one blade from start to finish, though adding a few more ingots is definitely worth it, so while it may take 1.5 hours to make 1 blade, it might only take 2 hours to make 6.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
No.
The majority of the time involved with forging comes in two phases. The first time consuming phase is the cool down that takes place when you pour molten steel into the ingot mold and let it cool completely. This takes about a half hour.
The next phase is the heating phase, where you take the now completely cooled ingot and transfer it to the forge to heat up. There are varying stages, with the final stage being "white hot." I never pound anything that's less than white hot, even though it IS possible, but this phase also takes about a half hour, hence... about 1 hour to make anything that's forged.
There is some time involved in the mixing, prior to pouring it into the mold, and this varies depending on the complexity of the mix, how many ingredients are used, and what the mixer's strength is. More strength results in lower round times.
The other time variable is in the pounding of the item. Right now the base rt is 70 seconds minus your adjusted strength. Paladins can use Heroic Strength, Barbarians can use the Bear dance to boost and buff their strength, resulting in lower roundtimes while pounding.
You do take a stamina hit with each pounding, so even though it's possible to get a zero roundtime while pounding, there may be a few seconds before you regain 100% stamina again, but once again, more strength = lower roundtimes.
In general, it's not worth it to forge just one sword. There's always a chance of breakage, and the additional time it takes to make a few more ingots is negligible in the grande scheme of things when compared to the time it takes for the cool down and the reheating process.
With weapons, there's also time involved in the grinding of the blade. All things considered, I estimate it's a bit more than an hour to complete one blade from start to finish, though adding a few more ingots is definitely worth it, so while it may take 1.5 hours to make 1 blade, it might only take 2 hours to make 6.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
VAGELO
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 05:54 PM CST
>No.
>The majority of the time involved with forging comes in two phases.
I'm a forger myself, so I understand this. I was just wanting to see what Caraamon's response would be, since he seems to be dancing around the truth by neglecting heating/cooling times.
-Master Ndin
>The majority of the time involved with forging comes in two phases.
I'm a forger myself, so I understand this. I was just wanting to see what Caraamon's response would be, since he seems to be dancing around the truth by neglecting heating/cooling times.
-Master Ndin
RAIST
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/05/2009 07:51 PM CST
>dancing around the truth by neglecting heating/cooling times.
Saying a sword takes an hour to make is disingenuous. It takes about ten minutes split up by long periods of waiting time in which you can go do other things.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Saying a sword takes an hour to make is disingenuous. It takes about ten minutes split up by long periods of waiting time in which you can go do other things.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi,
Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
CLYNLYN
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 07:10 AM CST
<<Saying a sword takes an hour to make is disingenuous. It takes about ten minutes split up by long periods of waiting time in which you can go do other things.
But logically you include the full time. Ask a baker how long it takes to bake a cake. They'll include the time it takes to "heat up" in the oven. So while you may feel it is disingenuous, the accurate time frame to make a single blade is one hour.
Most people won't see it this way in practice because like me, I make 50 ingots and pound them all out and grind them all out in a 4-6 hour period. So to make said blade when you churn them out is about 7.2 minutes per blade at 6 hours. But if i did only one blade from mix time of about 10 minutes to 20 minutes of cool down, to another 20 minutes of heat up time to 15-20 minutes of so maybe 65-70 minutes from start to finish without breaking.
And thats how people have to count it becomes the heating and cooling is PART of the process.
But logically you include the full time. Ask a baker how long it takes to bake a cake. They'll include the time it takes to "heat up" in the oven. So while you may feel it is disingenuous, the accurate time frame to make a single blade is one hour.
Most people won't see it this way in practice because like me, I make 50 ingots and pound them all out and grind them all out in a 4-6 hour period. So to make said blade when you churn them out is about 7.2 minutes per blade at 6 hours. But if i did only one blade from mix time of about 10 minutes to 20 minutes of cool down, to another 20 minutes of heat up time to 15-20 minutes of so maybe 65-70 minutes from start to finish without breaking.
And thats how people have to count it becomes the heating and cooling is PART of the process.
DWARB-POWER
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 01:09 PM CST
<<so I'm wondering what possible reason there might be for not pounding at white hot? Anyone care to enlighten me?>>
Well, it's part of this discussion. We're discussing heating and cooling down times and how they are part of the process. If you wait for an ingot at white hot, you are just adding to the overall time in the forge. You don't NEED to do that, unless your dealing with really hardness/workability items on the forge (most likely with mostly pure kertig). The point where you can pound an ingot and make it malleable is usually around mild amber on the forge. You don't lose or gain anything from waiting for an ingot to get to white hot.
- Simon
Well, it's part of this discussion. We're discussing heating and cooling down times and how they are part of the process. If you wait for an ingot at white hot, you are just adding to the overall time in the forge. You don't NEED to do that, unless your dealing with really hardness/workability items on the forge (most likely with mostly pure kertig). The point where you can pound an ingot and make it malleable is usually around mild amber on the forge. You don't lose or gain anything from waiting for an ingot to get to white hot.
- Simon
DGUTHRIE2
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 02:10 PM CST
Ahhh. So there's not actual benefit to stats of the weapon or armor, it's merely a matter of time.
My entire forging process is scripted... from stoking the fire (everything triggers on a brilliant fire), to the mixing, pouring, cooling, heating, pounding (everything triggers on white hot), to the grinding, to dealing with breakage on the forge as well as the grindstone, etc.
I just set a few variables and let it run, so time is not really an issue for me.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
My entire forging process is scripted... from stoking the fire (everything triggers on a brilliant fire), to the mixing, pouring, cooling, heating, pounding (everything triggers on white hot), to the grinding, to dealing with breakage on the forge as well as the grindstone, etc.
I just set a few variables and let it run, so time is not really an issue for me.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
CLYNLYN
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 03:00 PM CST
As Simon said the white hot is purely arbitrary for most things. But its easier to not have to move off the anvil to the forge and back again to pound. Thats why most people pound at white hot. As for Kertig , kertig basically has to be white hot or hotter (high spectrum of white hot, all text based measurements are a degree of hotness numerically, so there are degrees of white hot.
pure Kertig takes a while on white hot glaes is higher end of red hot if i recall but thats testing that was done about 8+ years ago.
pure Kertig takes a while on white hot glaes is higher end of red hot if i recall but thats testing that was done about 8+ years ago.
DWARB-POWER
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 03:13 PM CST
<<Ahhh. So there's not actual benefit to stats of the weapon or armor, it's merely a matter of time.>>
The only thing taken into consideration for weapon or armor stats is predominately skills involved and ingot/wire/plate values involved.
- Simon
The only thing taken into consideration for weapon or armor stats is predominately skills involved and ingot/wire/plate values involved.
- Simon
COVERG
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/06/2009 03:56 PM CST
True..
I pound ingots that app ridgid at mild amber or high glowing.
I pound ingotst that app flexible at red hot
I pound all special metal ingots at HIGH white hot.
remember ridgid and flexible app backwards..
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
I pound ingots that app ridgid at mild amber or high glowing.
I pound ingotst that app flexible at red hot
I pound all special metal ingots at HIGH white hot.
remember ridgid and flexible app backwards..
______
Kertig Heart Magdar Bluefletch, Legendary Barbarian of M'Riss
NEELD
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/07/2009 10:42 AM CST
<<Ahhh. So there's not actual benefit to stats of the weapon or armor, it's merely a matter of time.
Not exactly. It does two things for me:
1. Reduces time in the forge (you got that part).
2. Reduces (significantly in my opinion) breakage depending on how rigid/hard your mix is prior to pounding.
Madigan
"le rage du paladine" Korsik
Not exactly. It does two things for me:
1. Reduces time in the forge (you got that part).
2. Reduces (significantly in my opinion) breakage depending on how rigid/hard your mix is prior to pounding.
Madigan
"le rage du paladine" Korsik
DWARB-POWER
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/09/2009 11:46 AM CST
<<Have you tried pounding at levels other than white hot and found that the heat of the item does not matter?>>
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm mentioning. From what I've seen, it doesn't matter what the heating level in terms of breakage rate from pounding.
- Simon
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm mentioning. From what I've seen, it doesn't matter what the heating level in terms of breakage rate from pounding.
- Simon
NEELD
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/09/2009 03:48 PM CST
<<From what I've seen, it doesn't matter what the heating level in terms of breakage rate from pounding.
Interesting. Thanks for the reply.
Madigan
"le rage du paladine" Korsik
Interesting. Thanks for the reply.
Madigan
"le rage du paladine" Korsik
DGUTHRIE2
Re: The "best" bastard sword
11/09/2009 05:15 PM CST
>>Yeah, that's exactly what I'm mentioning. From what I've seen, it doesn't matter what the heating level in terms of breakage rate from pounding.<<
I have seen breakage go WAY down upon gaining ranks in mech lore. I started forging as a paladin at around 250 forging factor and would break at least a third of the pieces. As my forging factor climbed through gaining armor ranks, the breakage remained fairly constant.
Once I committed to increasing mech lore, I noticed a reduction as my mech lore went over 300, then again another reduction as mech lore went over 400, and above 500, the breakage was GREATLY reduced, while my armor ranks remained fairly constant at just over 500.
Personally, based on my experience, I think breakage is related to mech lore.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
I have seen breakage go WAY down upon gaining ranks in mech lore. I started forging as a paladin at around 250 forging factor and would break at least a third of the pieces. As my forging factor climbed through gaining armor ranks, the breakage remained fairly constant.
Once I committed to increasing mech lore, I noticed a reduction as my mech lore went over 300, then again another reduction as mech lore went over 400, and above 500, the breakage was GREATLY reduced, while my armor ranks remained fairly constant at just over 500.
Personally, based on my experience, I think breakage is related to mech lore.
________________________________________
<<DISCLAIMER: THIS POSTER IS NOT A MEMBER OF STAFF AND HIS INFORMATION IS/MIGHT BE WRONG. >>
You flat out, absolutely, 100% have no idea what you're talking about.
Solomon
