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>>Tingle is currently our best, and imo, only useful disabler. Amusingly, its not supposed to be a disabler at all.
>>That took me less than a minute. Care to respond to that or will you continue to ignore it? Oh yeah, Maz said it's high on the list, not the best. I can play this game too.
Sure thing tiger, i did indeed say that, and i do still think that is the case, i dont know what youre trying to say here?
The point is that you felt that was your call to duty to come blazing into the conversation going on and on about this spell, that spell, and the other spell when you really dont know much on the subject, and are now complaining that someone else is doing the same thing to you.
That conversation started with someone trying to train a low circle WM asking questions about what spells were useful, what was given were honest answers, you felt that was a clarion call to come in saying everything is awesome all these spells are amazing, you guys QQ, bla bla completely derailing the thread. Most all of the assertions you made about various spells were disproved in the testing we did at your request, though i notice you dont acknowledge that at all either.
Thus, complaining about someone that isnt a barb prime player, commenting on suggestions in the barb folder because they are ignorant of barb abilities is pretty laughable and hypocritcal coming from you.
Eladrin
SUAVETERRORIST
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:16 PM CDT
>>Sure thing tiger, i did indeed say that, and i do still think that is the case, i dont know what youre trying to say here?
I'm saying that I'm shocked if you believe every other WM disabler is useless except Tingle.
Is something wrong with that?
>>The point is that you felt that was your call to duty to come blazing into the conversation going on and on about this spell, that spell, and the other spell when you really dont know much on the subject, and are now complaining that someone else is doing the same thing to you.
I named spells that I believe were useful and still are. If you take it the wrong way or not then it's on you. If a Barbarian post about roars being useless, or how berserks are useless, then I will do the same thing. It has nothing to do with guild folder for me.
>>That conversation started with someone trying to train a low circle WM asking questions about what spells were useful, what was given were honest answers, you felt that was a clarion call to come in saying everything is awesome all these spells are amazing, you guys QQ, bla bla completely derailing the thread.
The thread is right there, man. No need to twist it all up. I find more than just Tingle (yes, I never said it wasn't a good spell) useful. Sorry, but that's just how it is. Even Maz listed other disablers that had use.
The problem I see it is - you are comparing your disablers to MMs. I recall it being mentioned how you don't have that single target, extremely effective debuff + disabler in one spell.
>>Most all of the assertions you made about various spells were disproved in the testing we did at your request, though i notice you dont acknowledge that at all either.
You test spells against a 100+ Barbarian (your SvA stats were not better than mine for AnC) and conclude that all disablers but Tingle are useless? I thought we were smarter than that.
>>Thus, complaining about someone that isnt a barb prime player, commenting on suggestions in the barb folder because they are ignorant of barb abilities is pretty laughable and hypocritcal coming from you.
I have not once mentioned the fact that he isn't a Barb prime player. The first thing I said to Mozzik was that - I don't whine if other guilds come in post in our folder. If I go into a WM topic and post "I think WMs are good", Avrii will QQ up a storm. Me and Cop sometimes make a good tag team in some of our disagreements with Barb suggestions.
You're reaching by trying to play the guild card. But hey, at least you don't act all childish with your responses like your bud. Thumbs up for that.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
I'm saying that I'm shocked if you believe every other WM disabler is useless except Tingle.
Is something wrong with that?
>>The point is that you felt that was your call to duty to come blazing into the conversation going on and on about this spell, that spell, and the other spell when you really dont know much on the subject, and are now complaining that someone else is doing the same thing to you.
I named spells that I believe were useful and still are. If you take it the wrong way or not then it's on you. If a Barbarian post about roars being useless, or how berserks are useless, then I will do the same thing. It has nothing to do with guild folder for me.
>>That conversation started with someone trying to train a low circle WM asking questions about what spells were useful, what was given were honest answers, you felt that was a clarion call to come in saying everything is awesome all these spells are amazing, you guys QQ, bla bla completely derailing the thread.
The thread is right there, man. No need to twist it all up. I find more than just Tingle (yes, I never said it wasn't a good spell) useful. Sorry, but that's just how it is. Even Maz listed other disablers that had use.
The problem I see it is - you are comparing your disablers to MMs. I recall it being mentioned how you don't have that single target, extremely effective debuff + disabler in one spell.
>>Most all of the assertions you made about various spells were disproved in the testing we did at your request, though i notice you dont acknowledge that at all either.
You test spells against a 100+ Barbarian (your SvA stats were not better than mine for AnC) and conclude that all disablers but Tingle are useless? I thought we were smarter than that.
>>Thus, complaining about someone that isnt a barb prime player, commenting on suggestions in the barb folder because they are ignorant of barb abilities is pretty laughable and hypocritcal coming from you.
I have not once mentioned the fact that he isn't a Barb prime player. The first thing I said to Mozzik was that - I don't whine if other guilds come in post in our folder. If I go into a WM topic and post "I think WMs are good", Avrii will QQ up a storm. Me and Cop sometimes make a good tag team in some of our disagreements with Barb suggestions.
You're reaching by trying to play the guild card. But hey, at least you don't act all childish with your responses like your bud. Thumbs up for that.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
DGUTHRIE2
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:19 PM CDT
Ordinarily I cringe when Annwyl steps in but... I anticipate a smackdown coming.
________________________________________
Stop being wrong and people will stop telling you that you are wrong.
- Simon
________________________________________
Stop being wrong and people will stop telling you that you are wrong.
- Simon
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:19 PM CDT
>>You test spells against a 100+ Barbarian (your SvA stats were not better than mine for AnC) and conclude that all disablers but Tingle are useless? I thought we were smarter than that.
We did plenty of testing against plenty of people that night, you forget you were almost an hour late to your own request to test spells
must be touching on a nerve because you are getting pretty defensive amirite
>>If I go into a WM topic and post "I think WMs are good", Avrii will QQ up a storm.
Will I? If I didn't like my wm I would've gotten rid of her long ago. I believe at the time my opinion was the same it is now, there are only a couple of spells you will ever actually use at this point in time, the rest have become useless fluff and/or different messaging.
How about you stop making things up, accept that you are just as guilty and take this as a learning experience. Now you know how annoying it is.
~Arwinia
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target262.html
We did plenty of testing against plenty of people that night, you forget you were almost an hour late to your own request to test spells
must be touching on a nerve because you are getting pretty defensive amirite
>>If I go into a WM topic and post "I think WMs are good", Avrii will QQ up a storm.
Will I? If I didn't like my wm I would've gotten rid of her long ago. I believe at the time my opinion was the same it is now, there are only a couple of spells you will ever actually use at this point in time, the rest have become useless fluff and/or different messaging.
How about you stop making things up, accept that you are just as guilty and take this as a learning experience. Now you know how annoying it is.
~Arwinia
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target262.html
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:28 PM CDT
>>We did plenty of testing against plenty of people that night, you forget you were almost an hour late to your own request to test spells
>>must be touching on a nerve because you are getting pretty defensive amirite
If you REALLY REALLY think that Tingle is the only useful disabler then we can do a poll. I think you are being ridiculous, but that's the way it is.
>>Will I? If I didn't like my wm I would've gotten rid of her long ago. I believe at the time my opinion was the same it is now, there are only a couple of spells you will ever actually use at this point in time, the rest have become useless fluff and/or different messaging.
lol ok
>>How about you stop making things up, accept that you are just as guilty and take this as a learning experience. Now you know how annoying it is.
I'm fine with it. Mozzik was against a suggestion. We discussed it, and he took it to conflicts (which is all fine by me).
I could see if I was whining about how we have only one useful roar and he came in here and told me otherwise. Big difference, and if you don't see how then I guess you aren't too bright.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
>>must be touching on a nerve because you are getting pretty defensive amirite
If you REALLY REALLY think that Tingle is the only useful disabler then we can do a poll. I think you are being ridiculous, but that's the way it is.
>>Will I? If I didn't like my wm I would've gotten rid of her long ago. I believe at the time my opinion was the same it is now, there are only a couple of spells you will ever actually use at this point in time, the rest have become useless fluff and/or different messaging.
lol ok
>>How about you stop making things up, accept that you are just as guilty and take this as a learning experience. Now you know how annoying it is.
I'm fine with it. Mozzik was against a suggestion. We discussed it, and he took it to conflicts (which is all fine by me).
I could see if I was whining about how we have only one useful roar and he came in here and told me otherwise. Big difference, and if you don't see how then I guess you aren't too bright.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:44 PM CDT
>>I'm saying that I'm shocked if you believe every other WM disabler is useless except Tingle.
Sorry, but there it is. They each have a small niche where they can be useful, that very infrequently presents itself. The poster in this question asked the question, and i answered it with my honest opinion.
>>The problem I see it is - you are comparing your disablers to MMs. I recall it being mentioned how you don't have that single target, extremely effective debuff + disabler in one spell.
I never said this, i dont recall anyone else saying it either, though i agree, clerics and MMs have many more versatile disablers, but the topic was what spells do YOU <WMs> find useful, i listed the spells i do and dont use, and the reasons why.
>>You test spells against a 100+ Barbarian (your SvA stats were not better than mine for AnC) and conclude that all disablers but Tingle are useless? I thought we were smarter than that.
This is blatantly untrue, I tested vs. avrii, kyudo, mordimer, podfol, yuoree, and several others who were there whose names i cant recall now, as avrii said, you showed up like an hour late to the testing you asked for. After all the testing dust settled, my opinion was unchanged. You can sing the praises of FRB all you like, while you type >w and walk away for a minute letting it completely wear off, or tell me how awesome thunderclap is, when you get out of your stun before i get out of the RT for casting, or the awesomeness of anthers call, which might as well be a single person TC with the same problem, it really doesnt change anything.
Eladrin
Sorry, but there it is. They each have a small niche where they can be useful, that very infrequently presents itself. The poster in this question asked the question, and i answered it with my honest opinion.
>>The problem I see it is - you are comparing your disablers to MMs. I recall it being mentioned how you don't have that single target, extremely effective debuff + disabler in one spell.
I never said this, i dont recall anyone else saying it either, though i agree, clerics and MMs have many more versatile disablers, but the topic was what spells do YOU <WMs> find useful, i listed the spells i do and dont use, and the reasons why.
>>You test spells against a 100+ Barbarian (your SvA stats were not better than mine for AnC) and conclude that all disablers but Tingle are useless? I thought we were smarter than that.
This is blatantly untrue, I tested vs. avrii, kyudo, mordimer, podfol, yuoree, and several others who were there whose names i cant recall now, as avrii said, you showed up like an hour late to the testing you asked for. After all the testing dust settled, my opinion was unchanged. You can sing the praises of FRB all you like, while you type >w and walk away for a minute letting it completely wear off, or tell me how awesome thunderclap is, when you get out of your stun before i get out of the RT for casting, or the awesomeness of anthers call, which might as well be a single person TC with the same problem, it really doesnt change anything.
Eladrin
LORD-RAHL
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:46 PM CDT
/popcorn
PS Simon - saying that I don't train combat heavily on Mozzik isn't the same as saying I don't use the combat system. I just don't use it a whole lot on that specific character, and even then I spend more time in combat with him lately then I did in the past (He was non-com for like the first 40 circles or so and my skills are still lagging due to that).
Dartenian says, "The thing that makes Dragon Dance king is that it pretty much bonuses every single that can possibly be buffed for combat. Including at least two things that don't even exist."
PS Simon - saying that I don't train combat heavily on Mozzik isn't the same as saying I don't use the combat system. I just don't use it a whole lot on that specific character, and even then I spend more time in combat with him lately then I did in the past (He was non-com for like the first 40 circles or so and my skills are still lagging due to that).
Dartenian says, "The thing that makes Dragon Dance king is that it pretty much bonuses every single that can possibly be buffed for combat. Including at least two things that don't even exist."
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 03:56 PM CDT
>>This is blatantly untrue, I tested vs. avrii, kyudo, mordimer, podfol, yuoree, and several others who were there whose names i cant recall now, as avrii said, you showed up like an hour late to the testing you asked for. After all the testing dust settled, my opinion was unchanged. You can sing the praises of FRB all you like, while you type >w and walk away for a minute letting it completely wear off, or tell me how awesome thunderclap is, when you get out of your stun before i get out of the RT for casting, or the awesomeness of anthers call, which might as well be a single person TC with the same problem, it really doesnt change anything.
Did you get all of their stats before testing? Did you test each spell at various amounts of mana with each person with each spell? I got there late (hey, had RL things come up) and didn't bother with trying everything since people wanted to tourney.
I can't type >w after getting hit by shockwave. That is the scariest disabler in a WM's arsenal IMO. Even the Goose 'patriarch' Gothus claimed you were all ridiculous if you believe Tingle is the best one. Yet, I didn't see Avrii have a meltdown at him.
I guess Yuoree was right when he said that basically coming from outside the Goose family is met with hostility, but from inside it isn't.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
Did you get all of their stats before testing? Did you test each spell at various amounts of mana with each person with each spell? I got there late (hey, had RL things come up) and didn't bother with trying everything since people wanted to tourney.
I can't type >w after getting hit by shockwave. That is the scariest disabler in a WM's arsenal IMO. Even the Goose 'patriarch' Gothus claimed you were all ridiculous if you believe Tingle is the best one. Yet, I didn't see Avrii have a meltdown at him.
I guess Yuoree was right when he said that basically coming from outside the Goose family is met with hostility, but from inside it isn't.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
MOD-SVAFA
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:07 PM CDT
First, I want to thank you guys for moving this here without me having ask anyone to do so.
That said, we're going in circles and getting a little too much GvG in here. Let's stop rehashing the same he said/she said arguments over and over and tone down the GvG for me.
Thank you.
Svafa
___
Any questions or comments, please contact me at Mod-Svafa@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net.
That said, we're going in circles and getting a little too much GvG in here. Let's stop rehashing the same he said/she said arguments over and over and tone down the GvG for me.
Thank you.
Svafa
___
Any questions or comments, please contact me at Mod-Svafa@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net or Message Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net.
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:31 PM CDT
Just one final reply,
>>I can't type >w after getting hit by shockwave. That is the scariest disabler in a WM's arsenal IMO. Even the Goose 'patriarch' Gothus claimed you were all ridiculous if you believe Tingle is the best one. Yet, I didn't see Avrii have a meltdown at him
I dont find that shockwave is nearly as powerful as ppl play it up to be, and ive tested it extensively as well. Gothus saying whatever really doesnt mean anything either, the only difference is we finished the conversation about it in IRC instead of on the boards, much like many of the people that leaped into that thread, i dont think he's even played a warmage that can cast shockwave, so his opinion isnt that relevant.
Also, to answer your question about different mana amounts and stats, i cast everything at capped mana, and yes we exchanged stats when relevant. No, my opinions didnt change after testing with half a dozen odd people of varying skill level.
Eladrin
>>I can't type >w after getting hit by shockwave. That is the scariest disabler in a WM's arsenal IMO. Even the Goose 'patriarch' Gothus claimed you were all ridiculous if you believe Tingle is the best one. Yet, I didn't see Avrii have a meltdown at him
I dont find that shockwave is nearly as powerful as ppl play it up to be, and ive tested it extensively as well. Gothus saying whatever really doesnt mean anything either, the only difference is we finished the conversation about it in IRC instead of on the boards, much like many of the people that leaped into that thread, i dont think he's even played a warmage that can cast shockwave, so his opinion isnt that relevant.
Also, to answer your question about different mana amounts and stats, i cast everything at capped mana, and yes we exchanged stats when relevant. No, my opinions didnt change after testing with half a dozen odd people of varying skill level.
Eladrin
CLYNLYN
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:32 PM CDT
don't ruin my lunch entertainment Svafa. I'm hoping we'll catch a written head explosion.
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:46 PM CDT
>>I dont find that shockwave is nearly as powerful as ppl play it up to be, and ive tested it extensively as well. Gothus saying whatever really doesnt mean anything either, the only difference is we finished the conversation about it in IRC instead of on the boards, much like many of the people that leaped into that thread, i dont think he's even played a warmage that can cast shockwave, so his opinion isnt that relevant.
That's cool.
I'd just rather get hit with Tingle and not be debuffed, than to get a 20 sec RT on the ground from Shockwave. I've been hit by both a lot... and trust me, the Tingle isn't as effective on me when I use a very quick weapon anyway. Usually when someone Tingle me they stand in place and try to kill me, which doesn't work often since I can fire back real quick. Even when it drops my weapon, it doesn't mess up my aim or anything. Also, I carry plenty of Thrown weapons so losing one doesn't do much.
Bad balance kills thrown weapons like crazy, so stuff like Shockwave, Thunderclap, Frostbite don't have to keep me still at all, but they hurt my defenses AND make my throwing extremely difficult afterwards. Frostbite is notorious for it. Shockwave keeps me down which is even worse. If someone casts Tingle and then Frostbite, the FRB will hurt me more.
So I'll conclude that certain disablers are better than others depending on who you're facing. Agree?
Vinjince Rexem'lor
That's cool.
I'd just rather get hit with Tingle and not be debuffed, than to get a 20 sec RT on the ground from Shockwave. I've been hit by both a lot... and trust me, the Tingle isn't as effective on me when I use a very quick weapon anyway. Usually when someone Tingle me they stand in place and try to kill me, which doesn't work often since I can fire back real quick. Even when it drops my weapon, it doesn't mess up my aim or anything. Also, I carry plenty of Thrown weapons so losing one doesn't do much.
Bad balance kills thrown weapons like crazy, so stuff like Shockwave, Thunderclap, Frostbite don't have to keep me still at all, but they hurt my defenses AND make my throwing extremely difficult afterwards. Frostbite is notorious for it. Shockwave keeps me down which is even worse. If someone casts Tingle and then Frostbite, the FRB will hurt me more.
So I'll conclude that certain disablers are better than others depending on who you're facing. Agree?
Vinjince Rexem'lor
MATTSMOMMA
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:49 PM CDT
so it's almost like... they're situational amirite
~Arwinia
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target262.html
~Arwinia
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target262.html
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 04:59 PM CDT
I agree, it depends on the circumstance for many.
However, there are a few discrepencies there. Shockwave is much harder to pull of than tingle, and range is highly important to that spell, i wouldnt survive to get to melee to have a chance of making it work fighting you, or many other people. I dont think you realize this.
>>Tingle isn't as effective on me when I use a very quick weapon anyway. Usually when someone Tingle me they stand in place and try to kill me, which doesn't work often since I can fire back real quick. Even when it drops my weapon, it doesn't mess up my aim or anything. Also, I carry plenty of Thrown weapons so losing one doesn't do much.
Being tingled gives the victim a 10 second roundtime, yes, thats it, a mere 10 seconds, but it is, in my opinion, the best method WMs have of buying a little time. Even though we have a few spells that are supposed to do this, and supposedly, do this better, this is the way thats worked best for me time and time again. As i said you're welcome to disagree, you often do, but having played a WM as my primary character for a couple of years, and using some of these spells several if not dozens of times a day, every day, i think i may be just a bit more familiar with them than some of the people trying to explain to me how they work.
Eladrin
However, there are a few discrepencies there. Shockwave is much harder to pull of than tingle, and range is highly important to that spell, i wouldnt survive to get to melee to have a chance of making it work fighting you, or many other people. I dont think you realize this.
>>Tingle isn't as effective on me when I use a very quick weapon anyway. Usually when someone Tingle me they stand in place and try to kill me, which doesn't work often since I can fire back real quick. Even when it drops my weapon, it doesn't mess up my aim or anything. Also, I carry plenty of Thrown weapons so losing one doesn't do much.
Being tingled gives the victim a 10 second roundtime, yes, thats it, a mere 10 seconds, but it is, in my opinion, the best method WMs have of buying a little time. Even though we have a few spells that are supposed to do this, and supposedly, do this better, this is the way thats worked best for me time and time again. As i said you're welcome to disagree, you often do, but having played a WM as my primary character for a couple of years, and using some of these spells several if not dozens of times a day, every day, i think i may be just a bit more familiar with them than some of the people trying to explain to me how they work.
Eladrin
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 05:08 PM CDT
>>However, there are a few discrepencies there. Shockwave is much harder to pull of than tingle, and range is highly important to that spell, i wouldnt survive to get to melee to have a chance of making it work fighting you, or many other people. I dont think you realize this.
I don't know about that. It took me several hits to drop you last time we sparred. You managed to get an IP off - but that's not really the best spell when casting on 100+ dancing Dragon Barbarians, at least not from my experience. TM spells as a first choice are poor since BMR gets crazy high up.
Since then, you've probably trained up more than me. I'm willing to bet if you use Tailwind (Mord will tell you how effective it is) then you could get a Shockwave off. High ranged weapon and you got a good shot.
>>but having played a WM as my primary character for a couple of years, and using some of these spells several if not dozens of times a day, every day, i think i may be just a bit more familiar with them than some of the people trying to explain to me how they work.
That's true, but sometimes it's good to have a feel for the victim side. I imagine you haven't played a Barbarian extensively, but Tingle isn't going to do anything on certain high level Barbs tbqh.
As you said, Tingle will buy you time, but you'll need wayyy more than that on certain people.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
I don't know about that. It took me several hits to drop you last time we sparred. You managed to get an IP off - but that's not really the best spell when casting on 100+ dancing Dragon Barbarians, at least not from my experience. TM spells as a first choice are poor since BMR gets crazy high up.
Since then, you've probably trained up more than me. I'm willing to bet if you use Tailwind (Mord will tell you how effective it is) then you could get a Shockwave off. High ranged weapon and you got a good shot.
>>but having played a WM as my primary character for a couple of years, and using some of these spells several if not dozens of times a day, every day, i think i may be just a bit more familiar with them than some of the people trying to explain to me how they work.
That's true, but sometimes it's good to have a feel for the victim side. I imagine you haven't played a Barbarian extensively, but Tingle isn't going to do anything on certain high level Barbs tbqh.
As you said, Tingle will buy you time, but you'll need wayyy more than that on certain people.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 05:33 PM CDT
>>I don't know about that. It took me several hits to drop you last time we sparred. You managed to get an IP off - but that's not really the best spell when casting on 100+ dancing Dragon Barbarians, at least not from my experience. TM spells as a first choice are poor since BMR gets crazy high up.
Are you sure youre thinking of the right person? I havent really used IP at all since the change after testing it, because it too falls into the category of spells that got nerfed that i never use now. Unless you happen to be talking about the first couple weeks after the change when i was still trying it out in various ways.
>>Since then, you've probably trained up more than me. I'm willing to bet if you use Tailwind (Mord will tell you how effective it is) then you could get a Shockwave off. High ranged weapon and you got a good shot.
lol, why would i have to ask mord? I know you tend to lean to him as the goto pvp WM in most of your examples, and he does know how to Pvp with his character. I also cant remember the last time ive lost a spar to him. Im well aware of what tailwind does, and its limitations, my character is also ranged weapon primary, and i can pretty much garauntee you're overestimating it.
>>That's true, but sometimes it's good to have a feel for the victim side. I imagine you haven't played a Barbarian extensively, but Tingle isn't going to do anything on certain high level Barbs tbqh.
Well, sure, i prob couldnt hit edgee or juulmon with it, but unlike a barb 30 circles under me with more than 150 less defense than i have TM and vastly lower defensive stats than i have offensive ones, that i cant touch with TM regardless of disablers, Tingle does in fact work. Though i havent tested it on an 'at level' barb in a while, but it was buying me the time to get away from ternith i needed when he was 105th and i was like 80th.
Eladrin
Are you sure youre thinking of the right person? I havent really used IP at all since the change after testing it, because it too falls into the category of spells that got nerfed that i never use now. Unless you happen to be talking about the first couple weeks after the change when i was still trying it out in various ways.
>>Since then, you've probably trained up more than me. I'm willing to bet if you use Tailwind (Mord will tell you how effective it is) then you could get a Shockwave off. High ranged weapon and you got a good shot.
lol, why would i have to ask mord? I know you tend to lean to him as the goto pvp WM in most of your examples, and he does know how to Pvp with his character. I also cant remember the last time ive lost a spar to him. Im well aware of what tailwind does, and its limitations, my character is also ranged weapon primary, and i can pretty much garauntee you're overestimating it.
>>That's true, but sometimes it's good to have a feel for the victim side. I imagine you haven't played a Barbarian extensively, but Tingle isn't going to do anything on certain high level Barbs tbqh.
Well, sure, i prob couldnt hit edgee or juulmon with it, but unlike a barb 30 circles under me with more than 150 less defense than i have TM and vastly lower defensive stats than i have offensive ones, that i cant touch with TM regardless of disablers, Tingle does in fact work. Though i havent tested it on an 'at level' barb in a while, but it was buying me the time to get away from ternith i needed when he was 105th and i was like 80th.
Eladrin
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 05:47 PM CDT
>>Are you sure youre thinking of the right person? I havent really used IP at all since the change after testing it, because it too falls into the category of spells that got nerfed that i never use now. Unless you happen to be talking about the first couple weeks after the change when i was still trying it out in various ways.
100% sure. I'll find the log later this evening if you want. We were sparring in the cemetary and you said something like, "What the heck, I'll give you a try Vin". Wasn't too long ago.
>>Im well aware of what tailwind does, and its limitations, my character is also ranged weapon primary, and i can pretty much garauntee you're overestimating it.
Have you tried it against characters that use thrown weapons? Mord's evasion was 400'ish or maybe lower when we sparred quite some time ago. He buffed up completely, and included Tailwind. I used Dragon dance with about mid 500's LT at the time and was whiffing on him.
And yeah, I know Tailwind can be used in only one room and won't work if you leave.
>>Well, sure, i prob couldnt hit edgee or juulmon with it, but unlike a barb 30 circles under me with more than 150 less defense than i have TM and vastly lower defensive stats than i have offensive ones, that i cant touch with TM regardless of disablers, Tingle does in fact work.
My point is - Tingle is not going to help you offensively against certain characters. You can Tingle my character a million times, and you will whiff with TM and most likely with your weapon. I managed to dodge Saet's 1000 effective TM once or twice (he obliterated me the other times, heh) with defenses that are still below 600. It goes to show how crazy BMR at high levels.
I sincerely believe it'll take another disabler such as Shockwave, SD, Vertigo, or something else if you're going to kill me.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
100% sure. I'll find the log later this evening if you want. We were sparring in the cemetary and you said something like, "What the heck, I'll give you a try Vin". Wasn't too long ago.
>>Im well aware of what tailwind does, and its limitations, my character is also ranged weapon primary, and i can pretty much garauntee you're overestimating it.
Have you tried it against characters that use thrown weapons? Mord's evasion was 400'ish or maybe lower when we sparred quite some time ago. He buffed up completely, and included Tailwind. I used Dragon dance with about mid 500's LT at the time and was whiffing on him.
And yeah, I know Tailwind can be used in only one room and won't work if you leave.
>>Well, sure, i prob couldnt hit edgee or juulmon with it, but unlike a barb 30 circles under me with more than 150 less defense than i have TM and vastly lower defensive stats than i have offensive ones, that i cant touch with TM regardless of disablers, Tingle does in fact work.
My point is - Tingle is not going to help you offensively against certain characters. You can Tingle my character a million times, and you will whiff with TM and most likely with your weapon. I managed to dodge Saet's 1000 effective TM once or twice (he obliterated me the other times, heh) with defenses that are still below 600. It goes to show how crazy BMR at high levels.
I sincerely believe it'll take another disabler such as Shockwave, SD, Vertigo, or something else if you're going to kill me.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 06:05 PM CDT
lol, ok, this is going nowhere because everytime i explain something on the circumstances it was brought up in, you shift the focus.
You say i could prob take you down using Tailwind, i say no, im ranged primary even, but i think youre overestimating it.
You say 'well, itd help you dodge!'. I know that, it would not however help enough for me to hit you, which was the example you gave when you brought it up.
>>My point is - Tingle is not going to help you offensively
When, in any of the conversations in this thread, in the other one, or in game, did i say it would???
I said tingle is the best disabler we have in my opinion to buy some time, as in, TO BUY SOME TIME. No it doesnt put you kneeling or prone, it doesnt give any huge debuff penalties. It STOPS you for 10 seconds, it buys time, and i find it does so better than our other spells that are supposed to do that very same thing.
Stop changing the points youre arguing for.
Eladrin
You say i could prob take you down using Tailwind, i say no, im ranged primary even, but i think youre overestimating it.
You say 'well, itd help you dodge!'. I know that, it would not however help enough for me to hit you, which was the example you gave when you brought it up.
>>My point is - Tingle is not going to help you offensively
When, in any of the conversations in this thread, in the other one, or in game, did i say it would???
I said tingle is the best disabler we have in my opinion to buy some time, as in, TO BUY SOME TIME. No it doesnt put you kneeling or prone, it doesnt give any huge debuff penalties. It STOPS you for 10 seconds, it buys time, and i find it does so better than our other spells that are supposed to do that very same thing.
Stop changing the points youre arguing for.
Eladrin
VEE-REX
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 06:15 PM CDT
You said you probably wouldn't last long enough to get off another disabler such as Shockwave. I'll quote you:
>>Shockwave is much harder to pull of than tingle, and range is highly important to that spell, i wouldnt survive to get to melee to have a chance of making it work fighting you, or many other people. I dont think you realize this.
I'm telling YOU that Tailwind might help you last long enough to get in a Shockwave and then get in a nice shot with your ranged weapon. That isn't shifting focus, it went from A to B to C. Shouldn't be so hard to follow.
>>I said tingle is the best disabler we have in my opinion to buy some time, as in, TO BUY SOME TIME.
And I never said it wasn't the best TO BUY TIME. Buying all the time in the world won't do you any good if you're not going to kill me (unless you plan on running forever). And in order to kill me (as I said in my last post), I'm pretty sure Tingle alone won't do it. BMR is just that nutty. You'll need to add on a Vertigo or Shockwave in order to do it.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
>>Shockwave is much harder to pull of than tingle, and range is highly important to that spell, i wouldnt survive to get to melee to have a chance of making it work fighting you, or many other people. I dont think you realize this.
I'm telling YOU that Tailwind might help you last long enough to get in a Shockwave and then get in a nice shot with your ranged weapon. That isn't shifting focus, it went from A to B to C. Shouldn't be so hard to follow.
>>I said tingle is the best disabler we have in my opinion to buy some time, as in, TO BUY SOME TIME.
And I never said it wasn't the best TO BUY TIME. Buying all the time in the world won't do you any good if you're not going to kill me (unless you plan on running forever). And in order to kill me (as I said in my last post), I'm pretty sure Tingle alone won't do it. BMR is just that nutty. You'll need to add on a Vertigo or Shockwave in order to do it.
Vinjince Rexem'lor
SUAVETERRORIST
Re: Vinjince
09/24/2009 06:49 PM CDT
>>You said you probably wouldn't last long enough to get off another disabler such as Shockwave. I'll quote you:
Well, that wasnt exactly what i was getting at, but true enough as it stands, i dont really think tingle would grant me the time needed to pull of shockwave on you, though id be willing to test that theory with you sometime.
>>I'm telling YOU that Tailwind might help you last long enough to get in a Shockwave and then get in a nice shot with your ranged weapon. That isn't shifting focus, it went from A to B to C. Shouldn't be so hard to follow.
Pretty sure youd be wrong about this.
>>And I never said it wasn't the best TO BUY TIME. Buying all the time in the world won't do you any good if you're not going to kill me (unless you plan on running forever). And in order to kill me (as I said in my last post), I'm pretty sure Tingle alone won't do it. BMR is just that nutty. You'll need to add on a Vertigo or Shockwave in order to do it.
And agreed tingle alone wouldnt let me kill you, i never said it would. I also think you highly overestimate vert and shockwave if you think either of them alone, or combined would do the trick, because yes, BMR is just that nutty.
Eladrin
Well, that wasnt exactly what i was getting at, but true enough as it stands, i dont really think tingle would grant me the time needed to pull of shockwave on you, though id be willing to test that theory with you sometime.
>>I'm telling YOU that Tailwind might help you last long enough to get in a Shockwave and then get in a nice shot with your ranged weapon. That isn't shifting focus, it went from A to B to C. Shouldn't be so hard to follow.
Pretty sure youd be wrong about this.
>>And I never said it wasn't the best TO BUY TIME. Buying all the time in the world won't do you any good if you're not going to kill me (unless you plan on running forever). And in order to kill me (as I said in my last post), I'm pretty sure Tingle alone won't do it. BMR is just that nutty. You'll need to add on a Vertigo or Shockwave in order to do it.
And agreed tingle alone wouldnt let me kill you, i never said it would. I also think you highly overestimate vert and shockwave if you think either of them alone, or combined would do the trick, because yes, BMR is just that nutty.
Eladrin
