I really enjoyed reading Chad's ideas on this. It does make sense for war stomp to have something like a knock down affect because you're impacting the ground for the surrounding area around the Barbarian stomping. His idea also fills a usefulness that he explained well when it comes to cost vs. reward that would be helpful during a hunt.

I appreciate his suggestion on it and truly honestly feel that war stomp is workable to make it better than what it is. The idea in itself is really good and a LOT of you agree with me on this because I've read your past posts on suggestions for war stomp (before the ability came out). It just falls short on what a decent ability is, let alone a 100th circle ability. Just my thoughts, as always.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

While I would not deny that Stomp doesn't seem to be as useful as it should at a 100th ability, I still think I'll use it if I ever get there. Just look at it. It's an awesome ability, something that would be a great RP tool. So while I think that it definitely should see some improvement, I don't think going on and on and on and on and on about how it needs to be better will help much. The point was already made, I'm sure everyone knows that. Great suggestions, though.

You cannot intimidate undead creatures with intimidation roars. Already made that point.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

I recognize your point Iayn, but realize that what your experiment had a few things unconsidered. First, that many mammoths would equal death, unbalanced or not, so it's an unrealistic exampmle. Second, unbalancing itself does not have the effect it did when the ability was first released. Third, comparing the benefit of unbalancing, which I already stated does not have the bite it did long ago, the cost is way too high to make it a viable hunting tool. Like I said in my original post, that fire is so much more valuable to me as a dancing/berserking reserve that I'm shooting myself in the foot for using it. Like I said it's not a major issue for me, because it's something I've ignored and discarded as usable. But I was asked what I thought might make stomp better, and the fall down seemed to be the logical continuation of its current working.

Just showing that the two abilities that have been the subject of comparison are in fact quite different, albeit with a similar end effect.

Stomp is not really a hunting tool, is is better at other times, invasion situations being one, where it is far far more effective than Anger the Earth.

I don't have a problem with looking at stomp for possibilities, but it's not an everyday ability for regular hunting.


Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison

>Just showing that the two abilities that have been the subject of comparison are in fact quite different, albeit with a similar end effect.

But you have to admit, the example uses extreme circumstances, doesn't it? As stated by you and other GMs, undead have massive resistance to roars, and also more enemies makes it harder to roar against them. So against massive numbers of pretty much the highest undead creature in the game, Stomp works better than Anger, ok (though, I wouldn't mind seeing how well Anger would do with Nightmare/Screech of Madness/Warpaint, in that kind of situation).

I know you're just trying to show that Stomp never fails (or, is extremely hard to fail), whereas Anger can, but I think the fact that you have to use such an extreme example only hurts your argument, for all kinds of reasons. There are just plain so few situations where Anger wouldn't work, and even in situations were only Stomp would work, it just takes way too much Inner Fire to be worth it, because what it boils down to is that momentarily unbalancing enemies is just not a great ability anymore, even when it has almost no cost to it (Anger), and in our case is a lowly 5th circle ability at that. And as another poster pointed out, with 8 bone mammoths you're pretty much dead regardless of their balance.

>Stomp is not really a hunting tool, is is better at other times, invasion situations being one, where it is far far more effective than Anger the Earth.

Effective is a subjective word. Do you mean because you can use it without fear of affecting other people (since it only affects melee/pole range) and without fear of high numbers of critters stopping it? Ok, I'll admit that would be really helpful way of using it, but only if it didn't take so much Inner Fire to use, because there are far more important things to use IF on unless they're just mass numbers of critters far below your level, and if that's the case then you wouldn't be needing Stomp anyway, right?

And if you're a 100th+ circle Barb intent on helping in an invasion that badly, you may as well just run around with a large group of people anyway, so you can just easily unbalance/stun/immobilize rooms of critters left and right with roars at no cost to your IF.

>I don't have a problem with looking at stomp for possibilities, but it's not an everyday ability for regular hunting.

Well maybe that's the crux of the problem then, isn't it? Its effects are of just an everyday regular hunting ability. It just mimics the effects of a circle 5 everyday regular hunting ability, and there's no two ways around that, even regardless of how easy to pull off it might be, it only temporarily unbalances enemies, and at a huge IF cost, and you can't even do it until 100th circle.

For the IF cost I would totally expect it to do more than it does, all kinds of effects come to mind, most of which have been suggested (dizzy enemies, knock-downs, stuns, break limbs, drop weapons/shields, shoot yourself in the foot, etc, hell it should probably have an effect like Screech of Madness too), or if its current effects aren't going to change than I'd think the IF cost should be drastically lowered. And this is even before considering that it's a 100th circle ability, I'd especially expect it to do more taking that into consideration.

And I'm sure this is the idea that most of us have been trying to convey.

Dragoonseal

The extreme circumstances were to show the capabilities of stomp. Reasonable chances at intimidation stop well before the nine opponents shown, and stomp's effect could easily go beyond nine. Stomp does have effects other than a balance hit; all of those mammmoths also didn't attack for a bit after the stomp.

I doubt that there is much more effect that can be squeezed out of stomp without reducing some of the benefits of the ability, such as its success rate.

All balance reducing abilities lost some of their impact when combat changed and balance could be regained faster, but there are also faster ways to attack now, such as whirl.

It really doesn't concern me that stomp is not the go to ability for 100+ barbarians; the ability is far from worthless and is quite different from (and better than) Anger, in terms of success rate, what it can affect, and what its affects are. Expending significant time and effort changing something that isn't broken, and that would only affect those few members of the guild of 100+ circle, also can't be put anywhere near the top of the list. Development for the entire guild is a much greater priority.

Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison

>I'll just say if you're 100th and mammoths = death then need mroe training mammoths aren't that deadly to higher circles. Deadly yes, insanely deadly no. Using War stomp would have a good affect on it. Plus if bone mammoths are UNDEAD they are bugged. Recent invasion i cast with my ranger Plague of Scvanagers and they reactive as very much alive. So maybe they're just cursed like Adan'f.

So, from your experience how much MO does it take to dance with nine bone mammoths?

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Digressions, objections, delight in mockery, carefree mistrust are signs of health; everything unconditional belongs in pathology.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

I think add ons to stomp is fine. Maybe make mammoth knock stuff down at melee. This would include a more difficult check of course.

>The extreme circumstances were to show the capabilities of stomp. Reasonable chances at intimidation stop well before the nine opponents shown, and stomp's effect could easily go beyond nine. Stomp does have effects other than a balance hit; all of those mammmoths also didn*'*t attack for a bit after the stomp.

(1) Just a FYI, the bolded part doesn't work on PCs. Just the roundtime from mammoth. Maybe you could add this part to PCs?

Achilles says, "ok"
>
Achilles asks, "ready?"
>nod

You nod.
>
A small, cruel smile appears on Achilles's face. Deliberately raising his foot and lashing it down to the ground, he unleashes the full power of the War Stomp.
The ground underfoot shakes with the fury of Achilles's strike, forcing you to adjust your footing.
R>shoot ach

...wait 5 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 4 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 4 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 3 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 3 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 2 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 1 seconds.
R>shoot ach

...wait 1 seconds.
R>shoot ach

Achilles assesses his combat situation.
R>
< Moving weakly, you fire a basilisk head arrow at Achilles. Achilles dodges.
The basilisk head arrow lands nearby!
[You're very badly balanced with opponent in superior position.]
[Roundtime 1 sec.]


(2) The no fail thing is also evident here too as even achilles managed to succeed a war stomp against my uber self. ;-)

Showing Barbarian Infamy List:
Score | Kills | Deaths | First Name | Last Name |LvL| Race

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273359661 423 82 Raging Fury 150 Rakash
3794471 516 105 Achilles Tartarus 150 Rakash
1680962 405 116 Sassy Lass 150 Human
1348734 237 63 Aegeus Calydon 150 Rakash

What about having War Stomp drain some stamina or strength temporarily for the knockdown affect. Maybe decrease the IF used even.

Makes sense to me, a maneauver like that is going to drain some physical energy.

Codiax.


Why kill anything when you can kill mages

<<Ok I come back from over a year break and my post is still here. ~Codiax. >>

Awww, well let me be the first to give you a great big BEAR hug - welcome back, Codiax!!!

-Savage Gash Breaknow

<<just after fixing roars >>

By fixing yours I guess you mean making some of the more useless ones more useful?


Vote DR as TOP MUD: http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-cemm.html

Yes... if you don't know what I mean, pick up Kuniyo's Spirit sometime.

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Every broken enemy will know
That their opponent had to be invincible;
Take a last look around while you're alive,
I'm an indestructible Master of War!
~Disturbed: Indestructible, unofficial Barbarian Theme Song. YouTube it.